Minsk Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 Trolling, WUMing, taking threads way off topic, etc, is all totally acceptable; but talking about football, and which players that have actually been signed by our opposition during this transfer window, is not allowed. This site really is going down hill.................. Yes, yes, i know, this will be locked soon as well.............................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 Couldn't agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingwing Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 Isn't posting non saints related threads in the saints related bit the reason they are being locked... All the ones that have been locked in the last few days have been because they are about other teams acquisitions and if hypothetically we could have done with them, when this area of saints web is just for actual saints stuff. Probably more useful if the moderating team put a closing post at the end of locked threads to make this clear instead of just locking them repeatedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 Its all a conspiracy... this place is like the Daily Mail in the 1930s appeasing facists.... reckon they have some dirt on Granty or its about appeasing those nasty chaps at the UI... either way there seems little or no will by the MOds to change anything, so reckon they must have enough fivers for a few more currys before tehy worry about the decline in subs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowllyd Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 Trolling, WUMing, taking threads way off topic, etc, is all totally acceptable; but talking about football, and which players that have actually been signed by our opposition during this transfer window, is not allowed. This site really is going down hill.................. Yes, yes, i know, this will be locked soon as well.............................. Agree on all counts. And yes, I'm sure this will be locked soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintalan Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 Why do we have to lock threads because of one/two/multiple off topic posts? Why cant mods just move offending posts to a Junk thread, where those who want to can troll/abuse/go off topic? The moved post could just contain a link. Surely we must have the technology by now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 It's a bit ridiculous that there is no explanation as to why it was locked. It's an interesting topic of debate, and would think it would have been one of the last threads to be locked on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 14 August, 2013 Author Share Posted 14 August, 2013 Isn't posting non saints related threads in the saints related bit the reason they are being locked... All the ones that have been locked in the last few days have been because they are about other teams acquisitions and if hypothetically we could have done with them, when this area of saints web is just for actual saints stuff. Probably more useful if the moderating team put a closing post at the end of locked threads to make this clear instead of just locking them repeatedly. But surely discussing if the acquisition of an opposition team would have been a good signing for us IS discussing Saints??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 14 August, 2013 Author Share Posted 14 August, 2013 It's a bit ridiculous that there is no explanation as to why it was locked. It's an interesting topic of debate, and would think it would have been one of the last threads to be locked on here. We are not worthy of explanations, nor is it possible to question/argue the worth of a thread. Mods ARE Gods!! (or so it would appear....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 Agree on all counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Bowood Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 Perhaps a mod would like to comment..............I think these views are pretty widely held and maybe some kind of response is required Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 I assume that the mods and the trolls/wums all mates in real life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 (edited) ... Edited 14 August, 2013 by H Doh ... forgot quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 Isn't posting non saints related threads in the saints related bit the reason they are being locked... All the ones that have been locked in the last few days have been because they are about other teams acquisitions and if hypothetically we could have done with them, when this area of saints web is just for actual saints stuff. Probably more useful if the moderating team put a closing post at the end of locked threads to make this clear instead of just locking them repeatedly. If this were true surely our mods would be moving the thread rather than locking it? To be fair I think Minsk's threads are far more deserving of a place in the Saints area than the recent 'Saints Girls' and 'Accrington Stanley' threads ... Perhaps a mod could take the time to explain why these were allowed to run and assure us that the mod team are applying a consistent set of rules? If I didn't pay my fiver every year, I'd keep my opinions to myself. However, I make the payment to do my small bit to keep the site running, not so than so that I can post more than three times a day (my join date versus post count bears this out!) and I, like many members, am getting pretty fed up with having to wade through the dross posted by the current batch of half a dozen or so Saintsweb 'celebs' to get to anything remotely interesting. Don't get me wrong ... we're all different and I'm a 'live and let live sort of guy' but surely that's what the Muppet Show is for and the boundary between it and the Saints area gets more and more blurred by the day. Alpine gets a rough ride on here but, infuriating as his posts often are, he's entitled to his opinion and is nearly always on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
croydonsaint Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 There is a problem on this site. I feel it can only be the mods that can correct it. I may be being unfair in my comment but I have seen comments from mods on the past that bring traffic wardens to mind. ( I am sure that is a harsh generalisation )If the known offenders were set clear guidelines and dealt with there could be a chance for the site to come away from the school play ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 surely that's what the Muppet Show is for Hi we don't particularly want main board arguments in muppet show thanks. I would suggest Lounge or Motoring forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 Just mikey dropped a bollock last night by closing the original thread, but hopefully they read the comments and take things on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 Trolling, WUMing, taking threads way off topic, etc, is all totally acceptable; but talking about football, and which players that have actually been signed by our opposition during this transfer window, is not allowed. This site really is going down hill.................. Yes, yes, i know, this will be locked soon as well.............................. Think yourself lucky that the mods are busy / lenient as you'd have deserved 6 infraction points. In order that we have a well-defined system of disciplinary methods, we will utilise the "Infractions" system on this forum. These basically award points relative to the offence committed and remain in place for a given length of time, apply to all forums except where explicitly specified, and are listed below: •Re-starting a theme of a locked topic - 2 point, expires after 6 months •Insulting or abusing another member - 2 points, expires after 6 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 Hi we don't particularly want main board arguments in muppet show thanks. I would suggest Lounge or Motoring forum. Lounge it is then ... don't want to taint the Motoring Forum. HTH x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 Being a mod is never easy, being a good, pro-active mod is even harder in the short term, but it makes it much easier long term once you earn respect. The key to it is communication. Tell people why you've made a decision to do something (or not do something), be prepared to admit that you're wrong sometimes, and don't for one minute assume any kind of 'holier than thou' attitude. Work with posters, not against them. That said, when a site is allowed to get as off-topic as this one now often does, partly because of the sheer weight of posts, then any attempt to moderate it effectively becomes even harder when, as has been pointed out, so much else is let go. Especially when what is locked is relatively minor in comparison. That's not any individual mods fault, but because there aren't enough mods to keep up. Ideally there would be no need for mods... we would ignore the posts we don't like, and respond to those we do, and a form of natural selection would take place. It's easy to criticise Mods but we should all look at our posting behaviour at the same time too. After that, it depends what kind of site we want and how heavy we want the moderating to be, and that is a very subjective thing... with so many posters, it'll never be to everyones liking, but at present it does seem to be too sporadic and inconsistent and there almost might as well be none. I hope Mods take this on board constructively. I've been there and done it many times, and perhaps it also needs revisiting by Steve and Baj - or they need a 'management team' to look after it for them. As much as people moan about the board, there is no denying its popularity and perhaps it just needs a bit more Mod resource as a result? IMO major changes aren't needed, just enough visible, pro-active moderators who communicate effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 If this were true surely our mods would be moving the thread rather than locking it? To be fair I think Minsk's threads are far more deserving of a place in the Saints area than the recent 'Saints Girls' and 'Accrington Stanley' threads ... Perhaps a mod could take the time to explain why these were allowed to run and assure us that the mod team are applying a consistent set of rules? If I didn't pay my fiver every year, I'd keep my opinions to myself. However, I make the payment to do my small bit to keep the site running, not so than so that I can post more than three times a day (my join date versus post count bears this out!) and I, like many members, am getting pretty fed up with having to wade through the dross posted by the current batch of half a dozen or so Saintsweb 'celebs' to get to anything remotely interesting. Don't get me wrong ... we're all different and I'm a 'live and let live sort of guy' but surely that's what the Muppet Show is for and the boundary between it and the Saints area gets more and more blurred by the day. Alpine gets a rough ride on here but, infuriating as his posts often are, he's entitled to his opinion and is nearly always on topic. Decent post. Trawling through troll sh*t is part of the SaintsWeb experience these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 Just mikey dropped a bollock last night by closing the original thread, but hopefully they read the comments and take things on board. Common sense says they will .. Don't want to sound like a 'suck-up' but modding can't be an easy job on this site. Can't help but think if certain things had been nipped in the bud then their lives would be a lot easier though. A stitch in time ... and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 14 August, 2013 Author Share Posted 14 August, 2013 If this were true surely our mods would be moving the thread rather than locking it? To be fair I think Minsk's threads are far more deserving of a place in the Saints area than the recent 'Saints Girls' and 'Accrington Stanley' threads ... Perhaps a mod could take the time to explain why these were allowed to run and assure us that the mod team are applying a consistent set of rules? If I didn't pay my fiver every year, I'd keep my opinions to myself. However, I make the payment to do my small bit to keep the site running, not so than so that I can post more than three times a day (my join date versus post count bears this out!) and I, like many members, am getting pretty fed up with having to wade through the dross posted by the current batch of half a dozen or so Saintsweb 'celebs' to get to anything remotely interesting. Don't get me wrong ... we're all different and I'm a 'live and let live sort of guy' but surely that's what the Muppet Show is for and the boundary between it and the Saints area gets more and more blurred by the day. Alpine gets a rough ride on here but, infuriating as his posts often are, he's entitled to his opinion and is nearly always on topic. Excellent post. I too have paid since the beginning, which for me means posting a cheque from abroad every year. Also, not just so I can post more than three times a day. It is extremely rare that I do post that many in a day. However, I don't think it is only myself who is beginning to wonder if it is worth the effort any more.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 14 August, 2013 Author Share Posted 14 August, 2013 Think yourself lucky that the mods are busy / lenient as you'd have deserved 6 infraction points. I haven't insulted or abused anyone. And if they want to infract me for pointing out why the original thread should not have been locked so be it. They would be my first infractions, and it seems that only those with numerous to their names are allowed to post with impunity on here anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 14 August, 2013 Author Share Posted 14 August, 2013 Just mikey dropped a bollock last night by closing the original thread, but hopefully they read the comments and take things on board. The same bollock was then dropped twice more without any reason given/discussion as to why; so excuse for not expecting anything to be 'taken on board'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 I think the fact that you're still open after 26 posts and an hour and a half means you've probably made your point enough. I agree with you by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
percy windham Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 Don't understand why anything needs to be locked. If a thread is boring, or run its course, or a duplicate, it will just die off. Just let conversations run their course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 Being a mod is never easy, being a good, pro-active mod is even harder in the short term, but it makes it much easier long term once you earn respect. The key to it is communication. Tell people why you've made a decision to do something (or not do something), be prepared to admit that you're wrong sometimes, and don't for one minute assume any kind of 'holier than thou' attitude. Work with posters, not against them. That said, when a site is allowed to get as off-topic as this one now often does, partly because of the sheer weight of posts, then any attempt to moderate it effectively becomes even harder when, as has been pointed out, so much else is let go. Especially when what is locked is relatively minor in comparison. That's not any individual mods fault, but because there aren't enough mods to keep up. Ideally there would be no need for mods... we would ignore the posts we don't like, and respond to those we do, and a form of natural selection would take place. It's easy to criticise Mods but we should all look at our posting behaviour at the same time too. After that, it depends what kind of site we want and how heavy we want the moderating to be, and that is a very subjective thing... with so many posters, it'll never be to everyones liking, but at present it does seem to be too sporadic and inconsistent and there almost might as well be none. I hope Mods take this on board constructively. I've been there and done it many times, and perhaps it also needs revisiting by Steve and Baj - or they need a 'management team' to look after it for them. As much as people moan about the board, there is no denying its popularity and perhaps it just needs a bit more Mod resource as a result? IMO major changes aren't needed, just enough visible, pro-active moderators who communicate effectively. With great power goes great responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulletsaint Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 I see Invisimod's been a busy little chappie while I've been away on holiday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudders Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 I too have paid since the beginning, which for me means posting a cheque from abroad every year. Also, not just so I can post more than three times a day. It is extremely rare that I do post that many in a day. However, I don't think it is only myself who is beginning to wonder if it is worth the effort any more.... Not just you, my subscription is due again in two weeks, I've cancelled it. Couldn't care a less about a fiver (I've donated the fiver to a charity instead this year) but I just don't see the value any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 With great power goes great responsibility. with great power *COMES* great responsibility... typical lazy quoting from turkibot.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 14 August, 2013 Author Share Posted 14 August, 2013 And....... it's moved........ yet no reason given.... thank you..invisiGod....... We are not worthy.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 Can I suggest at this point you PM JustMike (or whoever it was) and try to discuss it with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 I moved it. It seems you want to talk about this, but it's not Saints related, so I moved it here so the discussion can continue without clogging up the main board. I'm also leaving the other thread there for now as people seem to want it left there, that was started about deadline day stuff, and clearing the non Saints stuff out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 If talking about other signings which could impact Saints, or peoples opinion on other players playing against Saints, thats enough for me to be Saints related. It's an interesting discussion - no reason to move it/lock it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Majestic Channon Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 moved..out of sight out of mind.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 By 'it' I mean this thread in particular, which is just discussing what should/shouldn't be closed or moved on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 By 'it' I mean this thread in particular, which is just discussing what should/shouldn't be closed or moved on this forum. But why was yesterdays thread locked....? bloody ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 14 August, 2013 Author Share Posted 14 August, 2013 I moved it. It seems you want to talk about this, but it's not Saints related, so I moved it here so the discussion can continue without clogging up the main board. I'm also leaving the other thread there for now as people seem to want it left there, that was started about deadline day stuff, and clearing the non Saints stuff out of it. And was it you who also deleted my (at least half) on topic reply to that thread? If it was because, in your opinion, part of it was off topic why weren't all the posts re Fox's abilities or lack thereof (and 100s of others) deleted from the HCDAJFU thread? Could you, or any other mod, please explain why a thread about players signed by other prem teams and their suitability or not had they joined us instead is not allowed? How is that thread the same as one suggesting (in our opinions) players who CDAJFU? Similarly, how is a thread about 'who do want us to sign before the end of the transfer window' different from HCDAJFU? Do you, and other mods, see the inconsistencies? Have a look back through this thread. It is not just me getting ****ed off by this. I shall not hold my breath for any full explanation!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 The HCDAJFU thread is generally expected to go off topic a bit and is given more leeway as a result, especially as there are a large number of posts in there and it would be unfeasible to expect us to check every single one. The particular post you mention, the half of it that wasn't on topic wasn't particularly diplomatic, and was likely to derail the thread, as it was close to the start of it. I personally probably wouldn't have closed the thread about other teams' transfers, but I might have moved it to the general sports section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 I think the point is there is so much drivel by certain indivduals on this site at the moment, that it was an odd decision to move/lock this one about actual football rather than the constant trolling/wuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 The HCDAJFU thread is generally expected to go off topic a bit and is given more leeway as a result, especially as there are a large number of posts in there and it would be unfeasible to expect us to check every single one. The particular post you mention, the half of it that wasn't on topic wasn't particularly diplomatic, and was likely to derail the thread, as it was close to the start of it. I personally probably wouldn't have closed the thread about other teams' transfers, but I might have moved it to the general sports section. Hi Jimmy, don't' take this the wrong way, as it's not directed at you personally - but the highlighted part is where the problem lies in my opinion. I don't believe you can have a forum moderated based on their individual opinions. Everyone's opinion is different, some will agree a thread is fine, others will agree it's not - therefore you have no consistency in the moderation of this place, and ultimately it leads to quite a few disgruntled members as we are starting to see. I know moderating is a very difficult job in most cases, but I think it would make so much more sense (and make everyone's lives easier) if you all had strict set guidelines to follow that you all agreed on. So threads and people are banned for consistent reasons, and not just based on peoples opinions at that time. In my opinion in the past, people have banned because the mod doesn't particularly like them - yet really annoying WUMs are allowed to carry on. Just my 2 pence and one way to improving things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 We do have guidelines, but no matter how strict they are, you'd still have people personal opinions interpreting them, not to mention the more strict they are, the more likely you are to come up against something they don't cover. With regards to trolling, one person's troll is another's genuine opinion. It's impossible to draw the line on that one. That aspect tends to improve during the season when you have more posters and a wider range of opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 The views expressed in this thread demonstrate why, IMO, the HCDAJFU sticky is a colossal waste of time. If someone sees a transfer rumour on another website, I don't see why they should be expected to trawl through 120-odd pages of one thread to see if it's already been discussed. They should, however, be willing and able to check thread titles on the first page or two of the forum to see if there's already a thread discussing that particular rumour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 As I see it, the HCDAJFU thread is useful for the dozens of different players that people would like to see us linked to mentioned each transfer window. I usually leave individual threads there if there's a half decent source backing up that we're showing an interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 I think we know how it's meant to work, and accept that. The real issue is that the thread that was locked last night shouldn't have been locked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 14 August, 2013 Author Share Posted 14 August, 2013 The HCDAJFU thread is generally expected to go off topic a bit and is given more leeway as a result, especially as there are a large number of posts in there and it would be unfeasible to expect us to check every single one. The particular post you mention, the half of it that wasn't on topic wasn't particularly diplomatic, and was likely to derail the thread, as it was close to the start of it. I personally probably wouldn't have closed the thread about other teams' transfers, but I might have moved it to the general sports section. I agree, the first half it wasn't diplomatic. It wasn't meant to be! Yet, the other half was on topic and still it was deleted - unlike hundreds of others all over this site that are left alone!! So, you wouldn't have locked last night's thread? Who locked the subsequent one on the same topic this morning? No mod admitted to doing so and no reason was given for its locking. Why would you have moved it to general sport? We were discussing which of those players we would have liked to have signed for Saints, therefore, those threads were SAINTS RELATED. Nice of you to admit that each mod interprets things their own way and, without exactly saying so, that us PAYING members just have to accept each one's decisions - like it or lump it, as it were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 The views expressed in this thread demonstrate why, IMO, the HCDAJFU sticky is a colossal waste of time. If someone sees a transfer rumour on another website, I don't see why they should be expected to trawl through 120-odd pages of one thread to see if it's already been discussed. They should, however, be willing and able to check thread titles on the first page or two of the forum to see if there's already a thread discussing that particular rumour. This would save me hours each week Steve ... I can generally tell by a thread title or the OP whether it is something I want to look at. Not interested in How many 'Saints girlfriends' anyone has had or what birds they've taken to the football (still no explanation as to why these are more worthy of a place on the Saints page than Minsk's threads btw?) so I just don't look at those threads. Separate thread for each news item or rumour please going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Posted 14 August, 2013 Share Posted 14 August, 2013 As I see it, the HCDAJFU thread is useful for the dozens of different players that people would like to see us linked to mentioned each transfer window. I usually leave individual threads there if there's a half decent source backing up that we're showing an interest. And all the recent Fox hate that is infecting every half decent thread it would seem ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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