Colinjb Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 (edited) My team: --------------------- Lambert --------------------- Guly -------------------------------------- Puncheon ------------- Morgan --------- Cork ---------------- --------------------- Wanyama --------------------- Clyne ------- Lovren ---------- Yoshida ---- Chambers ----------------------- Boruc ------------------------ Start with Guly, keep tight on the left wing and do not give them the option of a quick ball out there to put us on the back foot. Use Clyne on the overlap to provide an attacking threat, it may not be his prefered side but the game changed against Villa when he played there instead of Fox last sept against Villa in the second half. Chambers deserves his first start and alongside Punch will provide a great attacking threat. The central midfield should be rock solid with Wanyama driving from the back four and Cork/Morgan mopping and pushing up in front of him. Rickie as the lone forward will bring the rest into play whilst also providing his usual threat up front. Once they have been contained and worn down in the first half use Rodriguez, Lallana and Gaston off the bench to take it to them in the second half. Concerns I have: 1. Can we make the most of Wanyama from set pieces? Without Fox in the side this is a weakness, we need a decent set piece taker that can also pull their weight in the first eleven. 2. Is Chambers/Punch going to offer enough defensive solidity down the right? 3. Will the midfield three have the time and space to actively push forward and indeed, ahead of Mulumbu/Yacob? They are critical to our success. Edited 13 August, 2013 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 (edited) I neither know whether you're being sarcastic, or care. Surely you can see how silly that formation is though! Ball goes out to a WBA winger and our only protection is Rodriguez, unless Cork or Fonte come out and free up space in the centre. Edited 13 August, 2013 by DuncanRG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 Surely you can see how silly that formation is though! Ball goes out to a WBA winger and our only protection is Ramirez, unless Cork or Fonte come out and free up space in the centre. No, Puncheon and Rodriguez are half decent at providing cover and with that midfield they'd be seeing sod all of the ball anyway. We're better then them, they can adapt to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 They're not providing cover if there are no full backs, they're it. You wouldn't dream of playing them at full back in a back four, would you? Six places in the league table and two utter trouncings last season should attest to the fact that West Brom are better than us as it stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 They're not providing cover if there are no full backs, they're it. You wouldn't dream of playing them at full back in a back four, would you? Six places in the league table and two utter trouncings last season should attest to the fact that West Brom are better than us as it stands. They're providing cover against wingers, as could one of the spare central 3, 3-5-2 isn't rocket science. No, it says they were better then us last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 (edited) Unless you're Barcelona 3 at the back means wingbacks in the wide positions. But anyway, we're not gonna be doing that. Personally I expect the same starting XI as Sociedad, with full backs depending on Shaw/Clyne availability. Edited 13 August, 2013 by DuncanRG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 So it's a crazy system that happens to be adopted by the most successful team in recent history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 Clarified - Barcelona don't play 3-5-2. They've experimented with 3 at the back but they can only afford to do that because they have a monopoly on passing, possession, pressing and organisation which we couldn't even dream of. And when they did it they played the likes of Alves out wide, who for all their attacking instinct are still defenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 No, Puncheon and Rodriguez are half decent at providing cover and with that midfield they'd be seeing sod all of the ball anyway. We're better then them, they can adapt to us. Can't agree. The full backs will push forward along with the midfield leaving space on their wings. A hoofed clearance into those positions will leave us terribly vulnerable when they counter attack, centre backs trying to cover out in those positions will lack the pace needed to counter their wingers/wide forwards and we would be horribly exposed. It would further emphasise a weakness we showed when playing against them twice last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 Clarified - Barcelona don't play 3-5-2. They've experimented with 3 at the back but they can only afford to do that because they have a monopoly on passing, possession, pressing and organisation which we couldn't even dream of. It's exactly what we're aiming for though, that much is extremely obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 It's a ludicrous idea, not sure why we're even talking about it. Playing Jason Puncheon and Jay Rodriguez at wingback would not make us play like Barcelona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 Can't agree. The full backs will push forward along with the midfield leaving space on their wings. A hoofed clearance into those positions will leave us terribly vulnerable when they counter attack, centre backs trying to cover out in those positions will lack the pace needed to counter their wingers/wide forwards and we would be horribly exposed. It would further emphasise a weakness we showed when playing against them twice last year. I'd rather dominate the middle of the park then risk playing an untested 18 (?) yr old and Fox, they'd essentially be a waste of space. If Clyne's fit by all means they should play the usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 I'd rather dominate the middle of the park then risk playing an untested 18 (?) yr old and Fox, they'd essentially be a waste of space. If Clyne's fit by all means they should play the usual. We tried that last April and failed miserably. Yacob and Mulumbu are formidable. We need to be more flexible then simply trying to grind the game out there and leave us exposed in a way that would totally suit them. Shane Long running into that kind of space would be a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 We tried that last April and failed miserably. Yacob and Mulumbu are formidable. We need to be more flexible then simply trying to grind the game out there and leave us exposed in a way that would totally suit them. Shane Long running into that kind of space would be a nightmare. We didn't have Wanyama then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 It's a ludicrous idea, not sure why we're even talking about it. Playing Jason Puncheon and Jay Rodriguez at wingback would not make us play like Barcelona. Strong argument is strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 We didn't have Wanyama then. One player does not a team make. He alone cannot cover all the middle ground and the exposed full back positions, it doesn't matter how strong he is if the ball is sailing 20 yards over his head from a clearance onto one of their forward's runs into our exposed flanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 One player does not a team make. He alone cannot cover all the middle ground and the exposed full back positions, it doesn't matter how strong he is if the ball is sailing 20 yards over his head onto one of their forwards runs into our exposed flanks. He wouldn't need to, he'd have Cork and Schneiderlin alongside him, with Puncheon and Rodriguez providing further cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 Puncheon and Rodriguez at wingback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 He wouldn't need to, he'd have Cork and Schneiderlin alongside him, with Puncheon and Rodriguez providing further cover. Not if they have commited forward to support an attack which is required on your tactic to overwhelm their central mid as you stated. Your formation is far too gung ho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 Puncheon and Rodriguez at wingback Herp de derp, we can't play 3 at the back because we're not Barcelona ^ No such think as too gung ho bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 ^ No such think as too gung ho bro. We can't win everything 5-4 mate! There are reasons the old 1-4-5 formations are no longer used! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northam soul Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 Vydra has signed for West Brom hasnt he. Not a bad player really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 We can't win everything 5-4 mate! There are reasons the old 1-4-5 formations are no longer used! We have that approach anyway though regardless of how many we play at the back. We're lairy as f#ck no matter who we play and frankly it gives me a semi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 We have that approach anyway though regardless of how many we play at the back. We're lairy as f#ck no matter who we play. Then why exasperate it when it is obviously something that is a double edged sword? A weakness that has already been successfully used against us by the very team we are playing on Sunday!? Sorry mate, but your formation is suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 Then why exasperate it when it is obviously something that is a double edged sword? A weakness that has already been successfully used against us by the very team we are playing on Sunday!? Sorry mate, but your formation is suicide. They won because of Lukaku, let's be honest, Anelka is balls, the hell are they gonna do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 They won because of Lukaku, let's be honest, Anelka is balls, the hell are they gonna do. I don't deny that they are weaker up front this year but they can still use Vydra, Long and Anelka. Long will certainly remember us from last year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 (edited) -------------------Boruc -----------Lovren Yosh Fonte -----Wanyama Schneiderlin Cork Puncheon----------------------Rodriguez -----------------Ramirez -----------------Lambert You want the players to learn to play a system they've not used before in the next 3 days? That is quite a risk! I doubt Puncheon and Rodriguez would be effective wing backs anyway. Edited 13 August, 2013 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 I don't deny that they are weaker up front this year but they can still use Vydra, Long and Anelka. Long will certainly remember us from last year! That's gotta be one of the worst forward lines in the league, I feel comfortable letting Fonte, Lovren and Yosh take care of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 That's gotta be one of the worst forward lines in the league, I feel comfortable letting Fonte, Lovren and Yosh take care of them. If Rodriguez can adapt to this level then I would not count out Vydra. Long's physicality as well makes him ideal to play against a team who commit forward to a suicidal degree. Yoshida is the only one of our centre backs who has the mobility and vision to cope from what I can see and Lovren is not the most mobile. Your tactic is simply flawed, it requires world class talent like Mascherano in all three CB positions to even have a slight chance.. we do not have it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 You want the players to learn to play a system they've not used before in the next 3 days? That is quite a risk! I doubt Puncheon and Rodriguez would be effective wing backs either. Yes it is, I like to live on the edge. I think they'd be better wing backs if you want to call it that then Fox and Chambers would be fullbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 Yes it is, I like to live on the edge. I think they'd be better wing backs if you want to call it that then Fox and Chambers would be fullbacks. Its not even 3 days to learn the new system for a number of them, as they are away on international duty until Thursday/Friday and Saints will travel to West Brom on Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 Its not even 3 days to learn the new system for a number of them, as they are away on international duty until Thursday/Friday and Saints will travel to West Brom on Friday. I have faith in their ability and Gaston will do whatever he wants anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 I very much doubt it Ironically, "you score 3, we'll score 4" was ably and literally demonstrated by the U21s at Liverpool yesterday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenSaint Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 still think we should go 433 playing morgan cork and victor in the middle, those 3 would win most midfield battles this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 For those talking about Fox's delivery at set-pieces, I propose that young Mr Chambers take them instead. He's shown quite a few times this pre-season that he's good at putting crosses in, whether he'll be able to replicate that from dead-ball situations is another thing but worth a go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenagegsaint Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 My team for WBA if Ramirez, Yoshida and Shaw Aren't fit: ---------------------------Boruc----------------------- Chambers-------Lovren----------Fonte--------------Clyne -----------Cork--Schneiderlin-Wanyama---------------- Puncheon---------------------------------------Rodriguez ---------------------Lambert------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igsey Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 My team for WBA if Ramirez, Yoshida and Shaw Aren't fit: ---------------------------Boruc----------------------- Chambers-------Lovren----------Fonte--------------Clyne -----------Cork--Schneiderlin-Wanyama---------------- Puncheon---------------------------------------Rodriguez ---------------------Lambert------------------------- Do we know how likely it is that Clyne will be playing? Certainly didn't see him against RS. Still injured, I presume? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 It looks like they're working to get him fit for Saturday, but we'll have to wait and see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 Do we know how likely it is that Clyne will be playing? Certainly didn't see him against RS. Still injured, I presume? Clyne was in training last week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 My team for WBA if Ramirez, Yoshida and Shaw Aren't fit: ---------------------------Boruc----------------------- Chambers-------Lovren----------Fonte--------------Clyne -----------Cork--Schneiderlin-Wanyama---------------- Puncheon---------------------------------------Rodriguez ---------------------Lambert------------------------- Can't see us lining up with three CMs, don't think we've lined up once that way pre-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 Can't see us lining up with three CMs, don't think we've lined up once that way pre-season. I agree, if that was the plan for Saturday I'd imagine they would have tried it against Real Sociedad at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenagegsaint Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 Can't see us lining up with three CMs, don't think we've lined up once that way pre-season. Either do I but It's the team I'd pick if it was up to me, I'm pretty sure it'll be ---------------------------Boruc----------------------- Chambers-------Lovren----------Hooiveld--------------Clyne -------------Schneiderlin---Wanyama---------------- JRod-----------------Lallana-------------------Guly ---------------------Lambert------------------------- With the attacking three rotating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 Maybe Davis will start? Lallana and JRod either side Lambert up top? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeySFC Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 Can't see us winning this one I'm afraid. Vydra and Anelka are bound to score against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 More questions than answers for me this pre-season. Not that it is a bad or good thing, but some things just aren't very clear to me. I guess we'll find out a bit more this Saturday. These are the questions: 1. Who will emerge as the preferred option to play behind Lambert? Davis, Lallana, and Ramirez all offer very different options. What will suit the team best? Or will it be a circumstantial pick based on the opposition? 2. Who will partner Lovren? It looks like it may well be Hooiveld, but if the Hooiveld and Fox partnership is reignited on the left side of the defence it is really very very dangerous. 3. Will the style of play in the final third finally be established? Pochettino's style called for quick football in the final third, one or two touch stuff to take advantage of the positions we win the ball back in. But other than glimpses in fits and starts, we've moved the ball too slowly whether building up from the back or winning it high up the pitch. Will we be more incisive or will we continue to slow the game down? Does Pochettino trust his defence enough to be happy to lose the ball up the pitch playing more exciting football? Or are our personnel just not compatible with that part of his game right now? 4. Will we press all game or will it be used in select moments? Can the defence cope with the long diagonals that exposed it badly at times last season? As long as we give West Brom a decent game I'll be happy, but the defending worries me still (as a team, not individuals). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 Shaw is fit, not sure whether he will be risked though. Scan revealed no major damage. Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc4prem Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 Shaw is fit, not sure whether he will be risked though. Scan revealed no major damage. Lucky. I'm pleased as we an afford a couple of games with Fox for sure, he isn't as bad as people make out. With Shaw back in though we look so much more solid and threatening. Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 How do you know Shaw is fit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 How do you know Shaw is fit? Know the bloke who took him and picked him up from his scan. Would tie in with a tweet from Shaw yesterday too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 13 August, 2013 Share Posted 13 August, 2013 Know the bloke who took him and picked him up from his scan. Would tie in with a tweet from Shaw yesterday too. Sounds very promising, thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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