Who is to be praised for the clearing out the deadwood?

[SaintBobby]

There's has been a major cull of Saints players who couldn't really cut it in the top flight.

 

How many have we now got off payroll and/or cancelled contracts for?

 

A lot.

 

Chaplow, de Ridder, Seaborne, Richardson etc etc.

 

Sure, we might disagree with some of the decisions (maybe Dean Hammond "deserves" his chance in the top flight, still?). But it's a brutal and direct cull of the B-list or C-list players. And we have yet to lose an obvious A-lister.

 

Only two notable additions so far - Lovren and Wanyama.

 

But - wow - pretty decent additions. (prima facie, both "A list", surely?)

 

Thanks to the ruthless slashing of the playing squad (killing off good Championship players, who aren't really good enough for the Premier League), we are probably in a position to get in one or two seriously good signings before the end of August.

 

Who should receive the praise for this?

[Downthe36]

Bazza...his idea.

[SaintBobby]

Bazza...his idea.

 

Right.

 

Well done, Bazza.

 

Top drawer.

[BadgerBadger]

-it's a bit emotive trying to praise someone for the cull, surely it is either good or bad that these players have moved on and not

-I don't buy the 'they' deserve a shot at the top flight - they're either good enough or adios - most of them are in the adios category, no time for sentiment

-we needed a clear out

-poch has his own style which looks to require players with very specific qualities

 

I'm not looking to praise anyone for 'ins' or 'out' equally not having a pop at the initial thread per se but I'm enjoying a resetting of the team to suit specific roles rather than buying a bunch of potential misfits (noted that Gaston may fit the bill on this one but the jury is out until Jan for me)

[70's Mike]

the individual players who have left to play rather than just train

[jasoneuelllfanclub]

We are struggling to get rid due to the wages they are earning. Forte is a good example. The players rightly or wrongly aren't prepared to sacrifice the wages in order to get regular football. So it is a case of negotiation of the final pay off which takes a long time given cortese will drive the price down as far as he can.

 

So I would say it has been a drawn out affair with some players still refusing to budge and will go to deadline day before we see a conclusion either way.

[Dellman]

Who are we still left with of that lot? Barnard for one and who else?

[brmbrm]

I'd have thought this is pretty much common sense: you go up, don't know how things will go, hang on to "cheap" players in case you go down, when you don't then move them on and upgrade.

 

(Then of course you get relegated, have an expensive squad and are in the financial poo.....)

[Saint Mikey]

-it's a bit emotive trying to praise someone for the cull, surely it is either good or bad that these players have moved on and not

-I don't buy the 'they' deserve a shot at the top flight - they're either good enough or adios - most of them are in the adios category, no time for sentiment

-we needed a clear out

-poch has his own style which looks to require players with very specific qualities

 

I'm not looking to praise anyone for 'ins' or 'out' equally not having a pop at the initial thread per se but I'm enjoying a resetting of the team to suit specific roles rather than buying a bunch of potential misfits (noted that Gaston may fit the bill on this one but the jury is out until Jan for me)

 

I agree with this, but I hope the fans remember this attitude when Shaw and Morgan demand moves in the future. Loyalty is dead in football and you can't expect it both ways.

[hutch]

I agree with this, but I hope the fans remember this attitude when Shaw and Morgan demand moves in the future. Loyalty is dead in football and you can't expect it both ways.

I think that's a bit harsh. AFAIK (I read it on here) the players got pay rises for being promoted even when the club knew they wouldn't be part of the future plans. In my book that counts as loyalty from the club, and we do see a lot of loyalty from our players. For example Schneiderlin was placed under huge pressure by the French national set-up to move on 5 years ago, but he stayed.

Edited 8 August, 2013 by hutch

[Gemmel]

I am assuming that the thread is a response to the "Who is to blame for the lack of signing" thread to gain some sort of parity?

 

The irony (For me) is that I think we have had a decent window in terms of signing, but a poor one in terms of moving players on.

 

You could argue that the club looked after Chaplow by cancelling his contract, but I would have expected some sort of fee for him and De Ridder. Also if we were going to have done what we did- We should have done it earlier - That was over two months worth of dead wages.

 

There are still players to move on, that wont ever wear a Saints shirt again. Personally I would have expected more movement with regards to the deadwood.

[Doctoroncall]

I think that's a bit harsh. AFAIK (I read it on here) the players got pay rises for being promoted even when the club knew they wouldn't be part of the future plans. In my book that counts as loyalty from the club, and we do see a lot of loyalty from our players. For example Schneiderlin was placed under huge pressure by the French national set-up to move on 5 years ago, but he stayed.

 

And not forgetting there is a time element for each contract which both parties sign in agreement.

[Saint_Tony]

Who is actually still left, is it Hammond, Barnard and Forte or have I missed anyone?

 

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[Window Cleaner]

I think that's a bit harsh. AFAIK (I read it on here) the players got pay rises for being promoted even when the club knew they wouldn't be part of the future plans. In my book that counts as loyalty from the club, and we do see a lot of loyalty from our players. For example Schneiderlin was placed under huge pressure by the French national set-up to move on 5 years ago, but he stayed.

 

And in view of his international career he will probably be made to regret that for ever. Don't think he'll ever get a call up now, not while Deschamps is selector anyway.

[The9]

Who is actually still left, is it Hammond, Barnard and Forte or have I missed anyone?

 

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Sharp and Tadanari Lee too, based on the players who haven't been given squad numbers (officially, though all of their previous numbers are still free, suspiciously).

 

Seeing as practically all the people who've left since we got promoted except Dan Harding and Vegard Forren have been due to contract expiry, I don't think anyone deserves any credit for it. We've hardly been proactive in moving people on.

[Matthew Le God]

Seeing as practically all the people who've left since we got promoted except Dan Harding and Vegard Forren have been due to contract expiry, I don't think anyone deserves any credit for it. We've hardly been proactive in moving people on.

 

Richard Chaplow and Steve De Ridder had their contracts cancelled by mutual consent.

[Wes Tender]

[/b]

 

And in view of his international career he will probably be made to regret that for ever. Don't think he'll ever get a call up now, not while Deschamps is selector anyway.

 

Schneiderlin did exactly the right thing in my opinion. Earlier he wasn't ready, but last season he came into his own and has blossomed as a player to the extent that he has proven that he is good enough to get a starting place in most if not all of the Premier Division teams. He stats for tackles and interceptions rank him amongst the best in Europe, so how he would be fail to be a prime candidate to be picked for his National team is a mystery to me.

[Sour Mash]

[/b]

 

And in view of his international career he will probably be made to regret that for ever. Don't think he'll ever get a call up now, not while Deschamps is selector anyway.

Any chance of Deschamps moving on anytime soon? I reckon it will become a frustrating for MS soon to the point where he may look to move.

[Turkish]

Is there really a need to praise anyone for getting rid of employees who have not up to the job being asked of them?

[Barry Sanchez]

Bazza...his idea.

 

Cheers,

 

Guly, Fox, Hooiveld, Hammond, Barnard, Martin and Lee to go if they haven't gone already.

[Window Cleaner]

Any chance of Deschamps moving on anytime soon? I reckon it will become a frustrating for MS soon to the point where he may look to move.

 

only real hope of that would be France not qualifying for the WC I think. They've probably to get through the play-offs already. Deschamps is just a complete big club nut job. Today he's named his old chum Abidal in the line up for the friendly against Belgium, bloke has hardly played for nigh on 2 years but he gets the nod. Morgan has been completely passed by once again in favour of a certain type of player of whom Deschamps seems totally enamoured. Still wouldn't be surprised not to see Morgan in a Saints shirt come 3rd September, perhaps Rickie getting the nod at 30+ will incite him to patience.

Edited 8 August, 2013 by Window Cleaner

[IronCitySaint]

Not sure there is any fanfare required for not renewing contracts for out-of-contract players or loaning out players who want a chance to play elsewhere. The manager simply decides which players are not in his plans or will not be in the 25-man squad and the others are let go. Same thing happens at every club every season.

[Barry Sanchez]

How Fox has continually been saved is going to be on talk shows and bbc docs for years to come, I shall raise a glass when he departs, not in the sense of me not liking him but in the knowing our team shall improve regardless of if we bring in Ironside, Hawking or David Blunkett.........................

[david in sweden]

Praise ? .....Praise........?? In real terms it has substantially reduced the salary bill - even if most of them may have been at a lower wage level.

 

I think it's obvious that a club that has gone from League 1 to the Premier League in 2 seasons would have quite a number of long-contract players who wouldn't make the grade...and so it has turned out. Some were / and may well be...very good players in L1, and others who won't disgrace a new club in the Championship.

 

I don't think we've " dispensed with the services " of anyone who we might later regret, and will look good on their footballing CV that they were part of the successful Saints set-up ....even if they all weren't star players on the team sheet every game.

 

However, we still have; Kelvin Davis, Jason Puncheon, Morgan Schneiderlin, Adam Lallana and the latest England recruit Rickie Lambert - who have " made it " from the L1 days.

 

Pleased to see that most of those who have gone who were not OOC were given free transfers, when a lesser club might have held out for some sort of fee...good luck to them.

Edited 8 August, 2013 by david in sweden

[The9]

Richard Chaplow and Steve De Ridder had their contracts cancelled by mutual consent.

 

Still need to clarify if Chaplow was given a temporary extension due to his injury, as I was under the impression he was out of contract already and he was on a month-to-month until he was fit.

 

De Ridder, yup, so that's three from a squad of about 30, plus the 7-ish who are actually useful in the Prem. The rest of them have just been expiries.

 

I also don't think credit is due for allowing players who want to play that we have no plans for to be able to leave, that's just reasonable, just like the position with Dickson last summer seemed a little unreasonable.

[The9]

Praise ? .....Praise........?? In real terms it has substantially reduced the salary bill - even if most of them may have been at a lower wage level.

 

I think it's obvious that a club that has gone from League 1 to the Premier League in 2 seasons would have quite a number of long-contract players who wouldn't make the grade...and so it has turned out. Some were / and may well be...very good players in L1, and others who won't disgrace a new club in the Championship.

 

I don't think we've " dispensed with the services " of anyone who we might later regret, and will look good on their footballing CV that they were part of the successful Saints set-up ....even if they all weren't star players on the team sheet every game.

 

However, we still have; Kelvin Davis, Jason Puncheon, Morgan Schneiderlin, Adam Lallana and the latest England recruit Rickie Lambert - who have " made it " from the L1 days.

 

Pleased to see that most of those who have gone who were not OOC were given free transfers, when a lesser club might have held out for some sort of fee...good luck to them.

 

We tangibly hung on to the players who might have been useful had we gone back down. There seems to be little reason to keep them now, especially as some of them have never been managed by the current Head Coach during an actual season.

 

I think praising a side for reducing the wage bill by a negligible amount when their wages are dwarfed by new signings, whilst also praising the club for not asking for a fee for players is a rather rose-tinted way of looking at it as well.

 

With the players we released in the summer we could easily have got rid of them in the winter window and got money for them, plus it would have reduced the wage bill sooner as well, if that was a benefit.

 

If they're worth having, they're worth paying for.

[david in sweden]

We tangibly hung on to the players who might have been useful had we gone back down.

There seems to be little reason to keep them now, especially as some of them have never been managed by the current Head Coach during an actual season.

 

I think praising a side for reducing the wage bill by a negligible amount when their wages are dwarfed by new signings, whilst also praising the club for not asking for a fee for players is a rather rose-tinted way of looking at it as well.

 

With the players we released in the summer we could easily have got rid of them in the winter window and got money for them, plus it would have reduced the wage bill sooner as well, if that was a benefit. If they're worth having, they're worth paying for.

 

 

 

I'm not sure if you are criticising my comments - or what, because you seem to have created a contradictory meaning in your own text.

 

YES - we hung onto players who might have been useful..had we been relegated, but everything was up in the air after NA's departure, in mid January.

...and with the shaky start to the Pochettino era, there is no way he could know who he was going to keep, and he clearly had some alternate views (to NA) in re-introducing Steven Davis and Jay Rod as regular starters in his sides.

 

...and so as he didn't know all the players potential (or lack of it) there was little or no way he would have got rid of them (in the window) by the end of January - barely 2 weeks after his apppointment.

 

Clearly, most of us agreed on who we thought might go....certainly De Ridder and Chaplow - and everyone wondered if Forran would ever play first team football, but the other departures were fairly predictable to anyone - weren't they?

 

Of course many of the departing players were OOC anyway, and perhaps not on high salaries....perhaps 5K - 10K / week, but even the departure of a dozen (lowly-paid) players does provide some savings to go into a budget for buying in some " highly-priced " talent in the future, as we are clearly not going to buy in a half-a-dozen new players to replace those who have already gone, plus another half dozen who will be looking for new clubs. (Barnard, Forte, A.Martin, Hammond, Sharp and Butterfield to start with).

 

As a matter of interest, those (on here) who have criticised our " lack of signings " may have missed the fact that we have also signed Luke Shaw and Calum Chambers on long contracts without spending millions into the bargain, and those two young men seem to have more of a future in the first team than any of the above-mentioned who have already /are going to leave.

Edited 9 August, 2013 by david in sweden

[Mallagroth]

How Fox has continually been saved is going to be on talk shows and bbc docs for years to come, I shall raise a glass when he departs, not in the sense of me not liking him but in the knowing our team shall improve regardless of if we bring in Ironside, Hawking or David Blunkett.........................

 

 

good work Baz, liking the humour.

[sunrise]

I think 'praise' is the wrong word personally, business sense is the crux of it. If it's possible to offload players which aren't good enough for the league the team is in, wouldn't it be best to do that? If they're not going to play a part, it's simply money that could better spent elsewhere.