Stephen Fry on the 'Anti-Gay Olympics'

[Barry Sanchez]

I apologise Minty, I have put my two penneth worth into this debate, I shall move my wisdom elsewhere where its needed, good afternoon sir.

[pap]

Pap snookered, no doubt no apology as usual, you stay classy.

 

Just for the record, BS - most claims are backed up with something. If your house was burgled, you wouldn't be able to say "the bastards nicked a £1M yacht from my broom cupboard!" to the insurance company and get away with it.

 

You'd need to have something to back up your claims. Same principle applies here.

[Minty]

I apologise Minty, I have put my two penneth worth into this debate, I shall move my wisdom elsewhere where its needed, good afternoon sir.

 

The wisdom can stay, it's the rest we can do without.

[Barry Sanchez]

Just for the record, BS - most claims are backed up with something. If your house was burgled, you wouldn't be able to say "the bastards nicked a £1M yacht from my broom cupboard!" to the insurance company and get away with it.

 

You'd need to have something to back up your claims. Same principle applies here.

 

No pap me old clingfilm, you said I had to prove I live in Liverpool after your incorrect accusation I didn't, I accuse you and I again have to go out and find your drivel ,you are a hypocrite, you are making it up as you go along, you are winging it my Liberal/tory mucker.

 

Now lets move on shall we as it appears we are spoiling it for others.

[Barry Sanchez]

The wisdom can stay, it's the rest we can do without.

 

I concur me Lord.

[pap]

No pap me old clingfilm, you said I had to prove I live in Liverpool after your incorrect accusation I didn't, I accuse you and I again have to go out and find your drivel ,you are a hypocrite, you are making it up as you go along, you are winging it my Liberal/tory mucker.

 

Now lets move on shall we as it appears we are spoiling it for others.

 

I was actually agreeing with your original points.

[dinger]

I can't recall anyone in this country doing anything about Hitler apart from appeasing him when he was persecuting minorities - apart from the great Winston Churchill. It was the invasion of Poland that finally started us off and that was nothing to do with our opinion of right wing policies of Germany in the 30's. Anyway, my point is that someone like Stephen Fry has no right lecturing Russian society on their attitude towards gays, given this countries appalling recent treatment of homosexuals.

 

I don't follow your point. Why would the fact that we used to treat homosexuals as criminals but have now changed for the better disqualify someone from this country from calling for fairer treatment of homosexuals in other countries? Would we be wrong to want to tackle slavery internationally because of our history? How far back do you have to go? Fry is asking the IOC to stand true to its stated principles. I can't see what the objection could be to that, apart from a personal objection to Stephen Fry. TBH I sometimes find him insufferable, but his character isn't the issue.

[Barry Sanchez]

I was actually agreeing with your original points.

 

So you apologise and see you have been incorrect in your accusation of me not living in Liverpool? You have seen that you have been hypocritical in stating I HAD to prove where I live after your accusation and when I state something as a matter of fact you ask me again to prove it which completely goes against your previous position?

 

 

Not a problem pap, we all make mistakes and we all get a tad uppity and self righteous from time to time.

 

Not a worry mucker.

[pap]

If you're looking for me to fess up to some of the labels you're assigning me with, of course I'm all of those things from time to time. Isn't everybody? I try to mix my arrogant posting style with enough humility so I don't have a torch-wielding mob at my door. I'm succeeding on that front, at least.

 

I've never promoted the idea that I'm never wrong. The bloke you're criticising is a product of your own creation, mate. Fair dos, I can see how you'd develop that impression given our encounters in the past. I'm not quite sure why you're making such an effort to shift every topic of discussion onto your tedious agenda, even when I'm in agreement.

[Barry Sanchez]

If you're looking for me to fess up to some of the labels you're assigning me with, of course I'm all of those things from time to time. Isn't everybody? I try to mix my arrogant posting style with enough humility so I don't have a torch-wielding mob at my door. I'm succeeding on that front, at least.

 

I've never promoted the idea that I'm never wrong. The bloke you're criticising is a product of your own creation, mate. Fair dos, I can see how you'd develop that impression given our encounters in the past. I'm not quite sure why you're making such an effort to shift every topic of discussion onto your tedious agenda, even when I'm in agreement.

 

No worries pap we are all like that sometimes, dont worry mate its gets better.

[Guided Missile]

I don't follow your point. Why would the fact that we used to treat homosexuals as criminals but have now changed for the better disqualify someone from this country from calling for fairer treatment of homosexuals in other countries?

The issue is not whether an individual like Stephen Fry, or anyone else for that matter, has the right to criticise a foreign nation with regard to their treatment of a particular minority. It is the fact that he tries to evoke the national pride in the way we, as a nation ran the last Olympics and wants the Prime Minister to lecture someone on their behaviour as if we, AS A NATION, have the moral high ground, apparently because there was a complete lack of gay bashing in the Olympic Park in 2012.

 

He should take a leaf out of Peter Tatchell's book, with regard to this issue, i.e.:

 

In May 2006 Tatchell attended the first Moscow Pride Festival. He appears in the documentary Moscow Pride '06 featuring this event.

"In May 2007 Tatchell returned to Moscow to support Moscow Pride and to voice his opposition to a ban on the march. On 27 May 2007, Tatchell and other gay rights activists were attacked. He was punched in the face and nearly knocked unconscious, while other demonstrators were beaten, kicked and assaulted.^[35] A German MP, Volker Beck, and a European Parliament deputy from Italy, Marco Cappato, were also punched before being arrested and questioned by police.^[36] Tatchell later said "I'm not deterred one iota from coming back to protest in Moscow."^[37]

On 16 May 2009, the day of the final of the Eurovision Song Contest in Moscow, Russian gay rights activists staged a protest in Moscow in defiance of the city's mayor, Yuri Luzkhov, who had long banned gay demonstrations and denounced them as "satanic".^[38] Tatchell was among 32 campaigners arrested when they shouted slogans and unfurled banners"

 

What has Stephen Fry done in regard to this issue, about which he is so passionate? The usual, really. Writes an angry letter, and then hides behind David Cameron's skirt.

 

[Essruu]

I have no problem at all with this Russian law. I don't care what anyone says; discussing homosexuality with, or actively promoting it to children as perfectly normal and acceptable is wrong on so many levels. I'm not advocating the gay-bashing that may or may not be going on there, but the law itself should be applauded.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I have no problem at all with this Russian law. I don't care what anyone says; discussing homosexuality with, or actively promoting it to children as perfectly normal and acceptable is wrong on so many levels. I'm not advocating the gay-bashing that may or may not be going on there, but the law itself should be applauded.

 

Why is it wrong on so many levels? How on earth can you 'actively promote' homosexuality.

 

No one encourages people to be gay. It isn't a choice you ignorant dinosaur. People are either gay or they are not gay.

 

Discussing people's sexuality is perfectly normal, and should be encouraged at a young age. This can help to stop problems further down the line.

 

In fact, I strongly believe that if children were taught about it at a much younger age then such violence, oppression and bigotry would be much less prevalent. Perhaps you should try and educate yourself a bit more on the matter.

[Snopper]

I just wish we could have a Straight Pride Parade - just to even things up a bit.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I just wish we could have a Straight Pride Parade - just to even things up a bit.

 

Go to Gay Pride.

 

It is a great day out, and straight people (like myself) are welcome with open arms.

 

No one is crusading to turn the whole world gay.

[Bearsy]

People are either gay or they are not gay.

 

Is this deffo fact? I mean that people is born gay? I've got a gay cousin, he's 15 but i could totally tell he was gay even when he was like 8. I dunno if he was born gay or not though. His mum is v.overbearing.

[solentstars]

i just find Russian state corrupt and very backwards and will be glad when putin and his bunch of cronie gangsters playing to the ignorant fools are replaced by more enlightened forces in the future .anyone who does not agree with this tyrant are removed,murdered or put in jail.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Is this deffo fact? I mean that people is born gay? I've got a gay cousin, he's 15 but i could totally tell he was gay even when he was like 8. I dunno if he was born gay or not though. His mum is v.overbearing.

 

You're straight right? Have you ever sat and consciously decided that? Or is it that you have just only ever been attracted to women?

 

It's the same for gay people, they don't think oh I'm not getting anywhere with girls, I'll just go for guys instead. Or, oh it's cool to be gay, or this will annoy the parents etc.

 

I have many dear friends that are gay, and like you gay family members. Talking to them, they all say they just knew from a pretty young age that they were not attracted to members of the opposite sex.

[Barry Sanchez]

I have no problem at all with this Russian law. I don't care what anyone says; discussing homosexuality with, or actively promoting it to children as perfectly normal and acceptable is wrong on so many levels. I'm not advocating the gay-bashing that may or may not be going on there, but the law itself should be applauded.

 

No it shouldn't you ****ing philistine.

[solentstars]

I have no problem at all with this Russian law. I don't care what anyone says; discussing homosexuality with, or actively promoting it to children as perfectly normal and acceptable is wrong on so many levels. I'm not advocating the gay-bashing that may or may not be going on there, but the law itself should be applauded.

rubbish what twaddle that law that say- gays in russia have no rights and its alright to murder jail and beat them up and not talk about it is a rubbish law for bigots and what i expect from extreme third world countries in africa or the middle east.

[Bearsy]

You're straight right? Have you ever sat and consciously decided that? Or is it that you have just only ever been attracted to women?

 

It's the same for gay people, they don't think oh I'm not getting anywhere with girls, I'll just go for guys instead. Or, oh it's cool to be gay, or this will annoy the parents etc.

 

I have many dear friends that are gay, and like you gay family members. Talking to them, they all say they just knew from a pretty young age that they were not attracted to members of the opposite sex.

 

Yeah i get that, but i wasn't fancying birds particularly when i was toddler. I was wondering if i was born straight or if i learned straight in early childhood. I mean, it's news to me that ur deffo born straight or gay, I thought it was still scientific debate.

[Barry Sanchez]

I'm learning from certain threads in recent weeks one hell of a lot of people on here mask their true thoughts, I can see why they would mask them, everybody should be free to be whatever sexuality they feel like without any fear of being beaten up or locked away, there is a good chance quite a few posters on here are gay.

[Tokyo-Saint]

It's like trading places bear, nature over nurture or the other way around. I bet you $1 you can't turn Kelvinsrightglove gay by the end of the week. I'll try and turn Baz straight.

[Barry Sanchez]

Go to Gay Pride.

 

It is a great day out, and straight people (like myself) are welcome with open arms.

 

No one is crusading to turn the whole world gay.

 

I agree, we had a pride event up here last week, a couple of my mates are gay and invited me and the wife amongst others, could not go but all who went had a great time and were not converted, in many respects I would rather go to a gay/straight/lesbian club with well dressed people not wanting to scrap as opposed to a traditional boozer of ****e in ****e clothes.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Yeah i get that, but i wasn't fancying birds particularly when i was toddler. I was wondering if i was born straight or if i learned straight in early childhood. I mean, it's news to me that ur deffo born straight or gay, I thought it was still scientific debate.

 

Scientifically - there is no proof either way.

 

But anecdotal evidence is pretty overwhelming. I have never met a homosexual who has said otherwise. Granted I have not met every gay person in the world, but I have met a lot and from conversations I've had, that is how it is.

[Bearsy]

It's like trading places bear, nature over nurture or the other way around. I bet you $1 you can't turn Kelvinsrightglove gay by the end of the week. I'll try and turn Baz straight.

 

oh tokyos no lols pls, srsly, 4 minty. I couldn't turn KRG, not now he's adult. I'm just wondering if i had him as baby and introduced him to my overbearing aunt, is it scientifically impossible to make him a gay. I'm being srsly. I'm interest!

[Tokyo-Saint]

It is very doubtful bear but is it the trading places argument just with gay/straight instead of rich/poor. DNA Vs how someone was raised.

[Bearsy]

Scientifically - there is no proof either way.

 

But anecdotal evidence is pretty overwhelming. I have never met a homosexual who has said otherwise. Granted I have not met every gay person in the world, but I have met a lot and from conversations I've had, that is how it is.

 

yeah i've got the same evidence, but they don't know how they was as baby. I mean i ain't sure it's one way or another in baby, i reckon it develops through childhood. Maybe it is genetically pre-disposed to develop one way or other, or maybe it is partly environmental or something.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I'm learning from certain threads in recent weeks one hell of a lot of people on here mask their true thoughts, I can see why they would mask them, everybody should be free to be whatever sexuality they feel like without any fear of being beaten up or locked away, there is a good chance quite a few posters on here are gay.

 

For all our differences Barry, credit where it is due, I like this side of you.

 

I agree, we had a pride event up here last week, a couple of my mates are gay and invited me and the wife amongst others, could not go but all who went had a great time and were not converted, in many respects I would rather go to a gay/straight/lesbian club with well dressed people not wanting to scrap as opposed to a traditional boozer of ****e in ****e clothes.

 

I shared a flat in halls with a gay guy who described himself as "the biggest fairy ever" within about 10 seconds of meeting him. He is one of my best mates now. I went to pride with him and some of his friends in Leeds several times, and had a great day each time. He also worked in a few of the gay bars/clubs in town and used to get some of us to come down (free drinks and entry is always a winner with me) and never failed to have a great night. Friendly, fun and nonjudgmental. I actually managed to meet a few nice girls - who go there to get away from letchy guys - then they ran into me poor things!

 

I love the gays so much I almost wish I was one sometimes, girls are hard bloody work.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

oh tokyos no lols pls, srsly, 4 minty. I couldn't turn KRG, not now he's adult. I'm just wondering if i had him as baby and introduced him to my overbearing aunt, is it scientifically impossible to make him a gay. I'm being srsly. I'm interest!

 

Don't give up so easy.

 

My stance has been unwavering all my life - if I was attracted to or had feelings for a guy - I would go for it. It just happens that I have only ever been attracted to ladies.

[Bearsy]

It is very doubtful bear but is it the trading places argument just with gay/straight instead of rich/poor. DNA Vs how someone was raised.

 

yeah i spose it is, except with less Jamie Lee Curtis boob action

[Barry Sanchez]

I have simply never understood why we should judge someone of their colour or sexual orientation, religion is a completely seperate issue and one that holds many in bondage all around the globe.

[Tokyo-Saint]

I'm off to Ham to do a survey. I think KelvinRG is right though bear.

[Cascadia Saint]

I can't recall anyone in this country doing anything about Hitler apart from appeasing him when he was persecuting minorities - apart from the great Winston Churchill. It was the invasion of Poland that finally started us off and that was nothing to do with our opinion of right wing policies of Germany in the 30's. Anyway, my point is that someone like Stephen Fry has no right lecturing Russian society on their attitude towards gays, given this countries appalling recent treatment of homosexuals.

 

What utter crap. Because of this country's past actions or lack thereof, one of it's citizens has no right to protest civil rights abuses in another country?

[pap]

Don't give up so easy.

 

My stance has been unwavering all my life - if I was attracted to or had feelings for a guy - I would go for it. It just happens that I have only ever been attracted to ladies.

 

Where do you stand on transgendered?

[Tokyo-Saint]

oh Pap

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Where do you stand on transgendered?

 

If I had feelings for someone, or was attracted to them - I like to think that I would.

 

That said, I have only ever been attracted to and had feelings (of that nature) for females, so it's hard to be 100%.

[Tokyo-Saint]

No KRG, I think he means, are people born with something in them that makes them want to dress up as the opposite sex or is it cause something influenced them as a child?

[pap]

No KRG, I think he means, are people born with something in them that makes them want to dress up as the opposite sex or is it cause something influenced them as a child?

 

Nah, KRG was right.

 

Honest answer too, so kudos, KRG.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Nah, KRG was right.

 

Honest answer too, so kudos, KRG.

 

Honesty is my only option. I am the worst liar in the history of the human race.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Oh ok then. So do you think drag queens etc are born destined to be drag queens (gay or not) or is it due to something nurtured i.e. having a bath with their father in law on international trip*

 

 

 

*just jokes for bear - being serious really minty

[Killers Knee]

Could be worse, you get decapitated for masturbation in Indonesia.

[pap]

Could be worse, you get decapitated for masturbation in Indonesia.

 

A whole new dimension to knocking one off.

[Bearsy]

I've been thinking bout this on drive home and I don't believe in gay babies. I don't believe in straight babies either. Babies is bi.

[Guided Missile]

What utter crap. Because of this country's past actions or lack thereof, one of it's citizens has no right to protest civil rights abuses in another country?

The issue is not whether an individual like Stephen Fry, or anyone else for that matter, has the right to criticise a foreign nation with regard to their treatment of a particular minority. It is the fact that he tries to evoke the national pride in the way we, as a nation ran the last Olympics and wants the Prime Minister to lecture someone on their behaviour as if we, AS A NATION, have the moral high ground, apparently because there was a complete lack of gay bashing in the Olympic Park in 2012.

[Cascadia Saint]

The issue is not whether an individual like Stephen Fry, or anyone else for that matter, has the right to criticise a foreign nation with regard to their treatment of a particular minority. It is the fact that he tries to evoke the national pride in the way we, as a nation ran the last Olympics and wants the Prime Minister to lecture someone on their behaviour as if we, AS A NATION, have the moral high ground, apparently because there was a complete lack of gay bashing in the Olympic Park in 2012.

 

Well that's your take on what he said then. I can't see it myself.

[saintbletch]

When I read the thread title I assumed that they were holding an Olympics where medals are awarded for being anti-gay.

 

Glad to see that such a thing doesn't really exist.

 

Although it's a shame in some ways as I think a few contributors on here might medal*.

 

*Apologies for the verbification of that particular noun

[Cascadia Saint]

Learned more about the true feelings of a lot of posters on this thread than any other I can remember.

 

This is not necessarily a good thing for some of them.

[Bearsy]

I've been investigating bout gay babies and check how it was with the ancient geeks! When they was not busy reading spiderman comics or whatever, they was categorising their sexual orientation not by gender but by whether you like to be the dominant or the submissive. i.e. you wasn't straight or gay, you was either bent over or stood up. Intresting!

[Tokyo-Saint]

And coincidently, the olympics are from Greece bear. Good link. + 1 rep points.