Zero hour contracts

[norwaysaint]

Sound advice that doesn't seem to have been listened to

 

 

 

Exactly

 

 

 

And with that comment your mask has well and truly slipped. Selfishness is the rule for you, isn't it? Is empathy a foreign concept to you? You really cannot see why someone should care about what happens to someone else. You're more than happy to see a race to the bottom because it doesnt affect you. Have you even considered that others may not be in the same position as you? You may have more money, education and choices than others but there's no need, to go back to Grey Crabs point, to be complete c*nt.

 

 

 

Yes, Baz, how dare you not just accept that Tokyo is right? Please stop giving your point of view and just accept what he's saying as the correct way of doing things.

 

Tokyo, my advice to you is to stick to The Muppet Show - it's where you're best suited. Oh, and probably best to wait for Bearsy to post so you can at least be part of a comedy duo where one half of it is actually funny.

 

Good post.

 

Before he started trying to attach himself to the excellent and funny Bearsy, I remember Tokyo Saint was a weasel who tried to get other posters banned. He's tried to re-invent himself as an unfunny hanger-on, but some unpleasant true colours are shining through on this thread.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Got any more crisp stories Norway you boring cunt?

 

It's the depo/Ludwig/Norway Crew zzzzzzzzz

[buctootim]

if you are going to patronise do it correctly at the very leaat.

 

I think you'll find thats 'least'

[norwaysaint]

Got any more crisp stories Norway you boring cunt?

 

It's the depo/Ludwig/Norway Crew zzzzzzzzz

 

Are you still talking about a thread about eating habits from a couple of years ago that led to a few pages of discussion? Yeah, that's much duller than just trying to attach yourself to a popular poster without ever actually posting anything funny or creative yourself.

 

Why don't you run along and see if Bearsy's posted something clever you can try to take some of the credit from to make yourself seem interesting.

[Barry Sanchez]

I think you'll find thats 'least'

 

True dat, its this ****ing keyboard, its the spare one, the buttons stick, its a ****ing one from the old days.....................

[Viking Warrior]

Saintfully . Do your home work . I have an HR degree and I studied at Leicester university for my masters in employment law and industrial relations . Some of my peer groupware lawyers who had LLB while the other Hals of then group had hr degrees . Had I have had an LLB then I would am LLM after my name instead of MA . There are exactly the same same course same dissertation criteria just a different silk you wear at graduation

[Tokyo-Saint]

Are you still talking about a thread about eating habits from a couple of years ago that led to a few pages of discussion? Yeah, that's much duller than just trying to attach yourself to a popular poster without ever actually posting anything funny or creative yourself.

 

Why don't you run along and see if Bearsy's posted something clever you can try to take some of the credit from to make yourself seem interesting.

 

You are still going on about me getting deppo banned something that is as much a myth as why the skates call us scummers. I have never reported another poster Norway. If you don't like me, put me on ignore and **** off.

 

So I am not a socialist - shoot me now.

[Barry Sanchez]

http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/campaign/Workplace_and_TU_campaigns/Zero-hour_contracts/17153

 

On the front page of the metro today as well, over a million on these, pap you are in the wrong poltical party my friend, you are the most tory not tory I think I have ever come across, you also reside in the wrong City, a tory in Liverpool whatever next.

[bridge too far]

So, if someone is on a zero hours contract, they presumably aren't required to pay National Insurance? That would have serious implications for their state pensions as these are calculated on contributions over the average working life.

 

So, if someone is on a zero hours contract, what are their chances of finding somewhere to rent, when landlords and letting agencies require references and proof of earnings? They won't have satisfactory proof of earnings as it's an unknown.

 

What are their chances of opening a bank account since banks are very choosy these days about who they offer accounts to.

 

If one (or both) of a couple of parents is on a zero hours contract, how can they qualify for basic state child support since it's now a prerequisite that both parents have to be working to get things like childcare vouchers?

[Barry Sanchez]

So, if someone is on a zero hours contract, they presumably aren't required to pay National Insurance? That would have serious implications for their state pensions as these are calculated on contributions over the average working life.

 

So, if someone is on a zero hours contract, what are their chances of finding somewhere to rent, when landlords and letting agencies require references and proof of earnings? They won't have satisfactory proof of earnings as it's an unknown.

 

What are their chances of opening a bank account since banks are very choosy these days about who they offer accounts to.

 

If one (or both) of a couple of parents is on a zero hours contract, how can they qualify for basic state child support since it's now a prerequisite that both parents have to be working to get things like childcare vouchers?

 

 

The self employed on here or self employed merely concerned solely for themeselves as opposed to their Country and it citizens, they will want more cheap labour from abroad and could not care less, sad times.

[Viking Warrior]

As usual the media are jumping to all the wrong conclusions about Zero contracts or Casual contracts. The proper use of these does not exploit staff. although Im sure there are some employers who may use them for the wrong purposes. Fruit pickers is one area and private cleaning and care companies may not offer work to someone if they cry of sick or not cabable to do the job.

 

Th Majority of casual work may well be filled by staff who have part time work. for instance a social care assisant might also have a number ofcasual contract for Home care or social care in another unit. cleaning etc and if offered work they will undertake it providing it fits in with their lifestyle or affects benefits etc

 

I dont hear those bleating on about Zero contracts , mentioning care ,nursing building industry type agencies.

 

Lets go back to gang workers AND THE LIKES OF o'KELLY vS Trust house Forte PLC or Nethermere (St Neots) Ltd Vs Gardner employment contracts, Then you will see exploitation

[Barry Sanchez]

As usual the media are jumping to all the wrong conclusions about Zero contracts or Casual contracts. The proper use of these does not exploit staff. although Im sure there are some employers who may use them for the wrong purposes. Fruit pickers is one area and private cleaning and care companies may not offer work to someone if they cry of sick or not cabable to do the job.

 

Th Majority of casual work may well be filled by staff who have part time work. for instance a social care assisant might also have a number ofcasual contract for Home care or social care in another unit. cleaning etc and if offered work they will undertake it providing it fits in with their lifestyle or affects benefits etc

 

I dont hear those bleating on about Zero contracts , mentioning care ,nursing building industry type agencies.

 

Lets go back to gang workers AND THE LIKES OF o'KELLY vS Trust house Forte PLC or Nethermere (St Neots) Ltd Vs Gardner employment contracts, Then you will see exploitation

 

Cry off sick, if someone is ill they should not report for work, that is correct or do you disagree? The old race to the bottom is coming out.

[Viking Warrior]

Barry you have a terrible habit of twisting the facts of a decent debate, Those who are genuinely of sick should not be at work . however there are thousands who just throw a sickie because they cant be bothered to go to work . There are those that come to work at all costs because they feel it is their duty There are those that come to work when they shopuld be at home , Its called presenteism.

 

I avoid the left wing right wing political debates that go on, but deal with the facts on each case/

 

Did you know that if a contracted employee goes of sick for what ever reason , their shift will be offered to someone on a casual contract particualrly in Education and Socal Care within the Public sector.

 

You would have a fit if you knew how many billions are used to cover for public sector employees who are off sick whether care staff teachers or educational support staff.

If these aspects were debated at the same time as the zero hours debate . then zero hours contracts would be put into perspective

[Barry Sanchez]

People going off sick is not a reason to bring over a million workers on zero hour contracts is it?

What do the teachers think on such contracts think?

[Viking Warrior]

well there are thousnads of teachers on the supply register , call it casual or zero hours contracts. but the do get called in when the contracted

Look at teachers sickness absence rates

 

In 2011-12 a total of 2.2 million days were lost to teachers’ sickness absence in Englnad alone for those teachers who took sickness this equated to 8.1 day

 

the cost of this sickness is horrendous , well in excess of £500M not including the disruption caused to pupils etc and then the cost of using supply teachers

Schools in england continue to make extensive use of supply teachers, who account for 5 per cent of their spend on teachers, £875 million in total.

Many of the supply teachers used have taken early retirement under the teachers scheme and then come back to do almost the same job of teaching they had before the took the option for early retirement

 

But hey Barry dont let these facts cloud your judgement

[bridge too far]

Viking, I suspect that many supply teachers and nurses are agency workers. By being on an agency's books, they are entitled to holiday pay at the very least and, because they are in demand, they can call the shots about when they work and know pretty much how much they'll earn. My SiL, a teacher, briefly looked into supply teaching because of the incredibly long hours required of him as a permanent member of staff but found that he couldn't afford to do it as a 'full time' job as they could only guarantee to pay him for 3 days a week (regardless of whether he worked or not).

 

But many people, and there have been a number of them on TV today, can't call the shots, and will get lower hourly rates than properly contracted employees at the same firms, don't get holiday pay, are dragooned into working with very little notice and know that they probably won't get asked again if they refuse. They have no certainty of income and this means they can't undertake rental agreements / mortgages / bank loans etc. They'd be constantly claiming and unclaiming benefits and losing their future entitlements to state pensions. That means we all, in the future, will have to pick up the bill to pay pension credits.

 

Barry's right - it's a chase to the bottom and does nothing to inspire loyalty and commitment from employees. Commitment is a two-way process.

[Tokyo-Saint]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00tt9hz

[Viking Warrior]

Bridge

 

If a teacher retires at 55 In scotland, which they are allowed to to do if they came into service after 2006 get their pension and lump sum and some can retire at 50 if they were in the SSTS scheme before then, I hear the complaint of long hours frequently , but since the Mcrone (Scotland) agreement teachers hours in scotland have changed a lot with the emphasis on a reduction in the amount of administration they are required time amd the need to focus on pupil contact time , I cant comment on what goes on in England

 

Now my point is the same teachers who moaned about long hours who retire with their package and pension then come back almost imediatley to work nearly full time as a supply teacher.

 

Is this right? In my opinion it is not, what about the decent young teachers out there , should they not get priority?

So please do not think teachers are down trodden , they are not . particularly the over 50 group,

[Barry Sanchez]

Bridge

 

If a teacher retires at 55 In scotland, which they are allowed to to do if they came into service after 2006 get their pension and lump sum and some can retire at 50 if they were in the SSTS scheme before then, I hear the complaint of long hours frequently , but since the Mcrone (Scotland) agreement teachers hours in scotland have changed a lot with the emphasis on a reduction in the amount of administration they are required time amd the need to focus on pupil contact time , I cant comment on what goes on in England

 

Now my point is the same teachers who moaned about long hours who retire with their package and pension then come back almost imediatley to work nearly full time as a supply teacher.

 

Is this right? In my opinion it is not, what about the decent young teachers out there , should they not get priority?

So please do not think teachers are down trodden , they are not . particularly the over 50 group,

 

A close friend of mine is a teacher, he left to get more qualifications and its been a two year slog to get back in, all the while doing crap zero hour contracts and being told to go to Northwich then Preston the next day, he ditched it in the end as he was losing money with time and travel.

[Viking Warrior]

Barry

 

Thats some of the points I make. Normally Local education authorities have their own supply set up . I think the issue about agencies is another matter, Its possible that that agency has a poor reputation for providing teaching staff that the education authorities ignore them . So that is why your friend is used further afield. May some schools are using the older teachers who retired becuase they were in a clique . It does go on sadly.

 

Back to the agencies , They charge the earth for bank staff such as nurses etc and the actual individuals do not get the full rate for the job

I have been there and done that. Thats where the real exploitation occurs. Investigate recruitment agencies

[pap]

Most agency work is a complete waste of public money. The thinking is "we can have a low permanent headcount and increase capacity as required". The problem in almost all cases is not level-setting the permanent staff properly, meaning that temporary staff are practically permanently required.

[trousers]

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/lef****ch/2013/08/labour-co-op-mps-slam-zero-hours-contractswhile-their-own-donor-uses-them.html

 

One of the major employers caught up in the zero hours row that they are stoking is Co-Operative Funeralcare, part of the Co-Operative Group, aka the people who fund the Co-Op Party.

 

This is an awkward topic for Labour to pick, given that there are 32 Co-Op MPs on the Labour benches, including Ed Balls. While he doesn't sit as their representative, Ian Murray, the Shadow Minister responsible for the policy, lists himself as a Co-Operative Party member.

 

Perhaps before calling for the contracts to be banned, they might start by boycotting their own campaign donor?

[bridge too far]

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/lef****ch/2013/08/labour-co-op-mps-slam-zero-hours-contractswhile-their-own-donor-uses-them.html

 

Lol - I just get a blank page Reflecting the level of thinking at Conservative Home?

[trousers]

Lol - I just get a blank page Reflecting the level of thinking at Conservative Home?

 

Almost... Something to do with the wonderful SWF not allowing 'c o c k' in URL links.

 

Hey Ho, I'm sure there's plenty more Labour hypocrisy to uncover elsewhere

Edited 5 August, 2013 by trousers

[trousers]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/10474023/Zero-hours-contracts-unfairly-demonised-research-finds.html

 

Controversial zero-hours contracts are popular with workers despite worries that they are harming employees, new research by CIPD discovers

 

Zero-hours contracts offering a job but no guarantee over how much work will be offered have been “unfairly demonised” according to new research.

 

The employment method has also proved unnecessarily controversial, with a study from the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development (CIPD) finding that people on the contracts are more satisfied in their work and happier with their work-life balance than the average UK employee.

[pap]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/10474023/Zero-hours-contracts-unfairly-demonised-research-finds.html

 

However, there were worrying discoveries. One in five employees said they were penalised for not being available to work and nearly half receive no notice or only find out at the beginning of an expected shift that work has been cancelled.

 

Selective quoting is top-class, trousers!

[trousers]

Selective quoting is top-class, trousers!

 

You've taught me well sir

[bridge too far]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/27/zero-hours-contracts-problem-poor-management-flexibility-employers?CMP=fb_gu