Go home

[Batman]

he fuckin better do! I've based my whole fiscal strategy on one day getting a lottery payout from pap!

 

Pap wants everyone to be looked after in Britain. As long as he does not have to pay for it

[Bearsy]

You don't really expect him to look after everyone though do you b-man? I mean, it seems a lot to put on one man! First he's got to take care of me and tokyos and spudgun. Then obv if there is any left over he might need to drop a few sheckels on his kids and parents etc. You can see how it soon mounts up.

[Minty]

Pap wants everyone to be looked after in Britain. As long as he does not have to pay for it

 

I realise I also took things off track a bit earlier, but why persist with such a personal line, when this is clearly an issue that relates to more than just any one individual.

 

And if you're looking for a hypocrite btw, then that's all of us. Saves you a bit of hassle. We've all commented on issues that we've actually done something different about at some time or another. We're human, that's what we do. The moral high ground is a desolate place and none of us occupy it.

[Barry Sanchez]

You're entitled to that view, mucker.

 

I don't share it.

 

This has been an interesting thread anyways. I like ant's points about the lottery ticket we all won by being fired out of a womb in Britain, but am somewhat less happy to see some of the more inhuman attitudes, like holepuncture's classy "vermin".

 

The sad thing is, I bet his only crime is saying what a lot of people think anyway. I've encountered the Home Office before; they're not nice if you're the target of their attention. Look at the people ragging the lad out of the Nail Bar. Do they look like fine upstanding compatriots, or a couple of fat f**ks getting to throw their considerable weight about? At least the illegal immigrant hasn't let himself go! They look like pigs to me. I resent my taxpayer cash going to feed their fat, trough-seeking faces. I find it amazing that this is the publicity shot the Home Office chose to promote themselves. Fat f*cking stormtroopers? Whatever next?

 

ant's right though. We have all won the lottery by being born here, even if you're born without a pot to p!ss in. Free education, health, an expectation of safety when out and about - we take it all for granted. Contrast that with some of the poor bastards that have made it here, and I can't blame them for trying, not even the economic migrants. Most people want to improve their own situation through hard work. We happen to live in a country where that is still possible.

 

A bit judgemental on someone merely doing their job? Surely more migrants wanting to come here and some not willing to intergrate into the western way of life will dilute what was attractive to them in the first place?

[Tokyo-Saint]

Especially on one of those 0 hour contract things. You can't even get a loan with wonga with one of those.

[Batman]

I realise I also took things off track a bit earlier, but why persist with such a personal line, when this is clearly an issue that relates to more than just any one individual.

 

And if you're looking for a hypocrite btw, then that's all of us. Saves you a bit of hassle. We've all commented on issues that we've actually done something different about at some time or another. We're human, that's what we do. The moral high ground is a desolate place and none of us occupy it.

because, in every one of these types of threads, pap is easily one of the worst offenders at 'getting personal' in some way

[Minty]

A bit judgemental on someone merely doing their job? Surely more migrants wanting to come here and some not willing to intergrate into the western way of life will dilute what was attractive to them in the first place?

 

I would actually agree that pap is being very judgemental on the Border Control officers... especially from just that photo.

[Minty]

because, in every one of these types of threads, pap is easily one of the worst offenders at 'getting personal' in some way

 

So why not ignore him if you feel that way and actually try to contribute to the main content of the thread rather than marginalise it and try to make it a personal issue?

[Batman]

So why not ignore him if you feel that way and actually try to contribute to the main content of the thread rather than marginalise it and try to make it a personal issue?

 

why are you not posting this to him?

is it because you broadly agree with him?

 

IMO, part of the point is that people (in this case, pap for example) are quick to get frothy at the mouth at those who think these people should get out if they are here illegally. They want some sort of paradise (fair enough) and spout lines about we all lottery winners by being born here. Yet when asked if he would be so charitable should he win another lottery, the answer is no.

 

I dont want to pay for these people. Neither does he when it boils down to it

[Barry Sanchez]

I would actually agree that pap is being very judgemental on the Border Control officers... especially from just that photo.

 

You will quickly find pap wants to be a West Coast Surfer but is in fact an angry young man who has just realised there are more questions than answers, Wolfie Smith. David Brent and Gordon Brittas rolled into one, he's pretty fly for white guy.....................

[pap]

A bit judgemental on someone merely doing their job? Surely more migrants wanting to come here and some not willing to intergrate into the western way of life will dilute what was attractive to them in the first place?

 

Yeah, probably - but that's one of the benefits of pontificating on Internet forums; judgmental is part of the package.

 

That said, we do have a free labour market where people get to pick their professions and employers. I've turned down a number of jobs because of ethical considerations. I certainly wouldn't be a Home Office enforcer. They seemingly have no problem with it, so I don't think it's entirely off-base to suggest that some might enjoy the authority / getting to harass foreigners.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Always having a pop at pap baz, what's the beef?

 

It is pretty clear that you are a nationalist and a socialist and Pap is just a socialist. Is this a 21st century barbarossa thing?

[Bearsy]

YI've turned down a number of jobs because of ethical considerations.

 

Interesting! What sort of jobs do you turn down for ethical considerations? I feel like I would do anything that was legal if they was giving me enough dollar

[Barry Sanchez]

Yeah, probably - but that's one of the benefits of pontificating on Internet forums; judgmental is part of the package.

 

That said, we do have a free labour market where people get to pick their professions and employers. I've turned down a number of jobs because of ethical considerations. I certainly wouldn't be a Home Office enforcer. They seemingly have no problem with it, so I don't think it's entirely off-base to suggest that some might enjoy the authority / getting to harass foreigners.

 

You possoibly have the luxury of picking jobs? Yet you mock others who possibly cant, you then hammer them for doing a job.

Do you hate police officers, judges and and anyone with authority?

 

Kudo's to you for turning down positions on moral grounds, ha ha are you for real, or are we blessed to ahve the Dalai Lama as a Saints Web poster, how far up your own arse are you?

[buctootim]

Really quite far

[Bearsy]

I certainly wouldn't be a Home Office enforcer.

 

I would deffo do this job! I wouldn't be a v.good one tho, I would be all sympathetic + letting them off with a warning. I'd probably drop them a £20 so they could get new tracksuit trousers.

[Barry Sanchez]

Always having a pop at pap baz, what's the beef?

 

It is pretty clear that you are a nationalist and a socialist and Pap is just a socialist. Is this a 21st century barbarossa thing?

 

If you think pap is a socialist then I think you are mistaken. A Nationlist? Define, like a Serb Nationlist, a Scot, an Irish one, Sein Fein are a Socialist Nationalist movement, do not fall for a basic error of believing all National/Socialism is the same, can i be a Patriot or is that deemed to far right now in this Country?

 

In fact what word is acceptable to the extreme left that states one loves ones Country?

Edited 2 August, 2013 by Barry Sanchez

[pap]

I remember asking you the question about the off chance you winning £1m on another lottery. The actual one. You said you would NOT be giving your winning away to the needy

 

Of course I wouldn't, but I also said that if I won £100M, I'd have no problem giving £95M of it away. I don't need that much money for the rest of my life.

 

In the grand scheme of things, one million quid isn't a great deal of money. It's the new RBS' director's annual salary, or four detached houses. For an individual or family, it'd be life-changing. I know you think you've made some massive point here, but all you've really done is lay bare your simplistic thought processes, and for what? To call me a hypocrite. I've admitted that several times on here of my own volition. As Jack Dee is fond of saying, hypocrisy is rather handy.

 

So no, I would not give a 1M lottery win away, but after a certain point, would I really need the money? Hell, do any of these oligarchs who have billions need theirs either?

[Minty]

why are you not posting this to him?

is it because you broadly agree with him?

I agree with some of what he has written, I don't agree with other bits. Where I feel so inclined, I will reply to him if I feel it is worth doing so. If I don't think I won't. Pretty simply really. I just think it's a shame when threads get diluted by personal crusades and attempts to discredit others, rather than debating the wider issue.

IMO, part of the point is that people (in this case, pap for example) are quick to get frothy at the mouth at those who think these people should get out if they are here illegally. They want some sort of paradise (fair enough) and spout lines about we all lottery winners by being born here. Yet when asked if he would be so charitable should he win another lottery, the answer is no.

 

I dont want to pay for these people. Neither does he when it boils down to it

I can't answer for him and wouldn't want to try to do so. Personally, I do try to do my bit in areas that I believe are appropriate, hence why I run a social enterprise business. But there is a difference from acknowledging that we as a country are wealthy in all aspects of life, compared to many of those who come here as immigrants, to judging individuals on what they would do with a cash windfall. I believe we need to look beyond the short-term issue of these people somehow being a drain on our society, and look at why these inequalities exist in the world in the first place and help to address things at source where we can.

Edited 2 August, 2013 by Minty

[Barry Sanchez]

I would deffo do this job! I wouldn't be a v.good one tho, I would be all sympathetic + letting them off with a warning. I'd probably drop them a £20 so they could get new tracksuit trousers.

 

Or a leather jacket, what is it with the 80's leather jackets man, they all look like Niko Belic.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Bearsy might even pay for their ticket over from Canada if they are friendly.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tba3fqQc89E

[Bearsy]

if I won £100M, I'd have no problem giving £95M of it away to bearsy.

 

tks!

[Batman]

Of course I wouldn't, but I also said that if I won £100M, I'd have no problem giving £95M of it away. I don't need that much money for the rest of my life.

 

In the grand scheme of things, one million quid isn't a great deal of money. It's the new RBS' director's annual salary, or four detached houses. For an individual or family, it'd be life-changing. I know you think you've made some massive point here, but all you've really done is lay bare your simplistic thought processes, and for what? To call me a hypocrite. I've admitted that several times on here of my own volition. As Jack Dee is fond of saying, hypocrisy is rather handy.

 

So no, I would not give a 1M lottery win away, but after a certain point, would I really need the money? Hell, do any of these oligarchs who have billions need theirs either?

but £1m would be money you WON by the chance of a lottery. You would never have earned that money, you never did something wonderful to benefit others to earn that money. You got it by pure chance (like the lottery of being born here). So why not give most of it away? its not as if you would have been counting on it or expecting it

 

an interesting point. really.

[pap]

Interesting! What sort of jobs do you turn down for ethical considerations? I feel like I would do anything that was legal if they was giving me enough dollar

 

Actual stuff I've turned down:-

 

1) A company that had payday loan lenders as clients

2) Private health company looking to take over NHS work

[Barry Sanchez]

Actual stuff I've turned down:-

 

1) A company that had payday loan lenders as clients

2) Private health company looking to take over NHS work

 

Really? How noble of you.

[Bearsy]

They was only offering £1m tho. He'd of done it for £100m.

[pap]

You possoibly have the luxury of picking jobs? Yet you mock others who possibly cant, you then hammer them for doing a job.

Do you hate police officers, judges and and anyone with authority?

 

Kudo's to you for turning down positions on moral grounds, ha ha are you for real, or are we blessed to ahve the Dalai Lama as a Saints Web poster, how far up your own arse are you?

 

Heh. These people have no transferable skills? Well, it's funny Bazza. One of the depressing little things that's developed during my lifetime is seeing a big f**king lump in almost every doorway. It used to just be nightclubs. You saying there's no work out there for people with their qualities. My contention is that the market for big f**king lumps has never been higher, especially with a recession on!

[buctootim]

You pay full PAYE Pap or use a contractor tax avoidance scheme?

[Minty]

Can we just rename this thread 'Pick holes in Pap' seeing as it looks like the original thread is seemingly redundant now? lol

[Barry Sanchez]

Heh. These people have no transferable skills? Well, it's funny Bazza. One of the depressing little things that's developed during my lifetime is seeing a big f**king lump in almost every doorway. It used to just be nightclubs. You saying there's no work out there for people with their qualities. My contention is that the market for big f**king lumps has never been higher, especially with a recession on!

 

Code = Small man syndrome.

[Barry Sanchez]

Can we just rename this thread 'Pick holes in Pap' seeing as it looks like the original thread is seemingly redundant now? lol

 

That would be just desserts Minty trust me, but yes we should move on.

[Bearsy]

You pay full PAYE Pap or use a contractor tax avoidance scheme?

 

Good line of questioning!

 

Pap, when you're going through McDonald's Drive-Thru and you get your change and if it's less than 50p, do you put it in ur pocket or do you drop it in the charity slot?

[Barry Sanchez]

Pap wouldn't go to such a large company for a meal, lentil legends or carrot crusader is more his gaff, mind you he could support the underclass and immigrant he so cherishes if he supported his local McDonalds...............................

[Tokyo-Saint]

Good line of questioning!

 

Pap, when you're going through McDonald's Drive-Thru and you get your change and if it's less than 50p, do you put it in ur pocket or do you drop it in the charity slot?

 

Check out the price pikey subtly trying to find out where the spare change goes. Do Mcdonald's have a charity box in their drive through or is it just a plastic bear with ibiza written under it?

[Barry Sanchez]

Meanwhile Tokyo is looking up definitions of Nationalism and finding out there are many as there is Socialism..........................

[Bearsy]

Check out the price pikey subtly trying to find out where the spare change goes. Do Mcdonald's have a charity box in their drive through or is it just a plastic bear with ibiza written under it?

 

hahaha there is some truth in that! On the customer side the slot says "Charity" but on our side it says "Tips"

[Tokyo-Saint]

Meanwhile Tokyo is looking up definitions of Nationalism and finding out there are many as there is Socialism..........................

 

[pap]

You pay full PAYE Pap or use a contractor tax avoidance scheme?

 

I don't pay full PAYE, although it's not the whizzer ruse it was in the late nineties. January and July are stinging in terms of personal tax on higher rate earnings. I have to put a quarter of my income away each month to cover it.

 

As Bearsy says, it's a damn good line of questioning, and I'd be doing you an injustice if I answered it dishonestly.

 

Does it make me a hypocrite? Possibly, but I've already 'fessed to that. I will say this before the bloodletting begins. I have no job security, no sick pay and no holiday pay and as a contractor, I pay HMRC the gross salary I had as a permanent employee. That's how I rationalise it anyway.

 

F**k, this honesty thing is inconvenient.

[buctootim]

I don't pay full PAYE, although it's not the whizzer ruse it was in the late nineties. January and July are stinging in terms of personal tax on higher rate earnings. I have to put a quarter of my income away each month to cover it.

 

As Bearsy says, it's a damn good line of questioning, and I'd be doing you an injustice if I answered it dishonestly.

 

Does it make me a hypocrite? Possibly, but I've already 'fessed to that. I will say this before the bloodletting begins. I have no job security, no sick pay and no holiday pay and as a contractor, I pay HMRC the gross salary I had as a permanent employee. That's how I rationalise it anyway.

 

F**k, this honesty thing is inconvenient.

 

Fair play to you for fessing up. For the record Ive avoided tax in the past, though don't now. It only makes you a hypocrite if you take an unwavering principled stand on an issue which is incompatible with not paying a full whack of tax - and I do think you stray over the line.

[Barry Sanchez]

You would pap, the mount you preach from is toppling by the minute.

[Barry Sanchez]

Socialist I have just shat me kecks laughing............................

[Smirking_Saint]

Code = Small man syndrome.

 

I must admit pap, Im not always one for pointing out I agree with Dune now and again but it certainly does seem like small man syndrome. What the hell have portly gentleman got to do with the original topic FFS ?

 

As for turning down jobs, how very poetic, I bet if it came down to one of those jobs or feeding the family they would be right behind you (provided there wasnt some sort of conspiracy about)

[Tokyo-Saint]

I pay shit loads of tax but I am still a capitalist evil c*nt apparently.

 

Out of interest, how are you getting out of paying tax?

[Batman]

so, is pap on the fiddle?

 

another 'im alright jack'?

[buctootim]

Basically arrange things so you are / appear to be working as a contractor for more than one client through a company like morepay.com.

[pap]

I pay shit loads of tax but I am still a capitalist evil c*nt apparently.

 

Out of interest, how are you getting out of paying tax?

 

I'm getting out of paying a bit of tax, not all of it.

 

The general principle is that you take a lower salary than the income you get.

 

The rest is regarded as profit. You have to pay 20% corporation tax on profits, come what may. The rest of the profit is distributed as dividends to shareholders. I'm the only shareholder in the firm, hence the only recipient. Beyond that, HMRC then look at your total income over the year, taking into account any dividends and salary. This forms the basis of the personal tax calculation.

 

So, money is saved on:-

 

Personal PAYE

Employers PAYE

Any fixed asset purchase

 

However, they claw most of it back through personal tax which hits every Jan and July.

[Barry Sanchez]

I pay shit loads of tax but I am still a capitalist evil c*nt apparently.

 

Out of interest, how are you getting out of paying tax?

 

Out of interest ha ha!

[pap]

Basically arrange things so you are / appear to be working as a contractor for more than one client through a company like morepay.com.

 

I actually work for more than one company, although one big one is my bread and butter.

 

There are loads of other things that you need to do to prove you are not just an employee, such as own hardware, own premises, right of substitution, etc.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Oh right, I do that already. I don't take a salary at all really, I take dividends. That is not illegal or even immoral is it? I pay a shit load in corporation tax on our profits and then I am taxed again on any money I take out after that. Not exactly dodging tax is it? Paying tax twice on the same money more like.

[Smirking_Saint]

I pay shit loads of tax but I am still a capitalist evil c*nt apparently.

 

Out of interest, how are you getting out of paying tax?

 

You mean I can get away without paying thousands in tax a month ?