Go home

[ant]

- It's assuming guilt even if the wording is careful to say 'suspected' - if you were wrongly accused of shoplifting would you want your arrest plastered all over Twitter by the authorities?

- Why doesn't the Home Office do this for other crimes? Why is illegal immigration so terrible that it warrants public shaming?

- As a civil service department, the Home Office is supposed to be politically neutral. So why has it adopted the inflammatory rhetoric of the Conservative party?

- I don't see illegal immigrants as bad people. They have mostly come from places with extreme poverty and are just trying to make a tolerable life for themselves. Sure we have immigration rules and they need to be enforced, but parading around suspects and demonising them is unnecessary and undignified.

 

Agree strongly with all of the above. This a political play and nothing more, from a department that shouldn't be allowed to be manipulated in such a way. If it was truly about about curbing illegal immigration, action would be shown to be taken at the borders. The Tories want to be publically seen to be challenging illegal immigration (fairly transparently chasing the disenfranchised UKIP voter), but this doesn't even approach the tip of the iceberg.

 

It's just a horribly implemented PR stunt - imagine the outrage if suspects for all crimes were plastered across Twitter and/or via news outlets. Seems deeply illegal to me and errs towards inciting hatred.

[Batman]

I think this is a good move. About time we got tough (or appeared to) on illegals.

just think, had the country been able to have proper debates about this without the likes of pap immediately calling you a racist, then these measures would not be required.

 

More UKiP creeping in. good stuff

[ant]

Yeah, yeah!

[holepuncture]

You tell him, Sour Mash.

 

Illegal immigrants shouldn't be working in our Nail Bars.

 

The Home Office, who do the fine job of arresting illegal immigrants in Nail Bars, should definitely make sure the public is aware of how their money is being spent.

 

 

Look at those Home Office staff go! Very impressive work for men their size.

 

This is exactly what I want my tax money spent on, dealing with and eradicating the vermin. This image is for the hard working Brit, to reassure us that the forces are working hard on getting these people out.

 

One day you will realise that it is because people like you, that we are having to take all this aciton in the first place...

 

we didnt ask for this sh*t.

[solentstars]

Just another gimmick to get the Ukip vote back into the Tory fold to avert a disaster at the polls at the next election useless politicians playing to the gallery of fools.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[View From The Top]

This is exactly what I want my tax money spent on, dealing with and eradicating the vermin. .

 

Cheers Adolf.

[ant]

just think, had the country been able to have proper debates about this without the likes of pap immediately calling you a racist, then these measures would not be required.

 

Nobody's saying there can't be a reasoned debate, but 'sling 'em all out' is neither reasoned nor a debate.

 

Those referred to as 'vermin' on this thread are human beings. Here illegally or not, they're not always the perpetrators. Treating all with the same level of contempt is to ignore the fact that many have been snuck into the country to be exploited. Life for those people isn't the rosy utopia that many imagine.

 

It's always baffled me that those fortunate to have been born into an affluent country have such a tremendous sense of entitlement.

[Batman]

Nobody's saying there can't be a reasoned debate, but 'sling 'em all out' is neither reasoned nor a debate.

.

 

if they are here illegally, then they should not be here.

[ant]

if they are here illegally, then they should not be here.

 

So when you say you want 'proper debates', you actually mean "only my opinion counts".

[Batman]

So when you say you want 'proper debates', you actually mean "only my opinion counts".

 

when I say debates, I mean the wider society, not a football forum

[ant]

when I say debates, I mean the wider society, not a football forum

 

Ah, in that case we might as well lock this thread. The Batman has spoken, justice is done.

[Batman]

Ah, in that case we might as well lock this thread. The Batman has spoken, justice is done.

 

dont lock it, crack on.

its a football forum, so dont expect much proper debate though

[Barry Sanchez]

No we can exploit them when they get here and sling them into a **** job, say Direct Sports? Spud picking perhaps? I would put good money on liveable wages would actually go a long way to stopping immigration and lower unemployment from the people living here.

Capiltalist exploitation and self righteous extreme leftist wanting to pull down the British worker, why cant we do a swap, 1000 Albanians for 1000 sandal wearers, they would be throwing them into the Adriatic in a week.

[Smirking_Saint]

Nobody's saying there can't be a reasoned debate, but 'sling 'em all out' is neither reasoned nor a debate.

 

Those referred to as 'vermin' on this thread are human beings. Here illegally or not, they're not always the perpetrators. Treating all with the same level of contempt is to ignore the fact that many have been snuck into the country to be exploited. Life for those people isn't the rosy utopia that many imagine.

 

It's always baffled me that those fortunate to have been born into an affluent country have such a tremendous sense of entitlement.

 

Which entitlement is that then ? Would you be happy to give up your job and your home in order for an illegal to move in ? Or does your self rightous piety only go as far as shaming the majority for thinking that britain should be for brits first and foremost ?

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Which entitlement is that then ? Would you be happy to give up your job and your home in order for an illegal to move in ? Or does your self rightous piety only go as far as shaming the majority for thinking that britain should be for brits first and foremost ?

 

This is the fundamental difference of opinion. You see Britain and its wealth as 'ours' to be hoarded whereas others see that the planet is everyone's and we should share everything in it.

 

The way I see it we don't work any harder than people overseas, we were just fortunate enough to be born in a country that many years ago managed to build up its economy, education systems etc whereas other countries are held back for a variety of reasons, usually lack of education, poverty etc.

 

If people in other countries are trying to bend the system in order to get a share of the cake, then fair play to them. We have an obligation to share our good fortune with others.

Edited 2 August, 2013 by Ex Lion Tamer

[Batman]

This is the fundamental difference of opinion. You see Britain and its wealth as 'ours' to be hoarded whereas others see that the planet is everyone's and we should share everything in it.

 

The way I see it we don't work any harder than people overseas, we were just fortunate enough to be born in a country that managed to build up its economy, education systems etc whereas others are held back for a variety of reasons.

 

If people in other countries are trying to bend the system in order to get a share of the cake, then fair play to them. We have an obligation to share our good fortune with others.

 

obviously not

why dont you give your house up, or half of your salary to someone who is here illegally?

I suspect you would never dream of it, mind

Edited 2 August, 2013 by Batman

[bridge too far]

This is the fundamental difference of opinion. You see Britain and its wealth as 'ours' to be hoarded whereas others see that the planet is everyone's and we should share everything in it.

 

The way I see it we don't work any harder than people overseas, we were just fortunate enough to be born in a country that many years ago managed to build up its economy, education systems etc whereas other countries are held back for a variety of reasons, usually lack of education, poverty etc.

 

If people in other countries are trying to bend the system in order to get a share of the cake, then fair play to them. We have an obligation to share our good fortune with others.

 

On the back of many of the countries whose residents now seek to live here.

[Smirking_Saint]

This is the fundamental difference of opinion. You see Britain and its wealth as 'ours' to be hoarded whereas others see that the planet is everyone's and we should share everything in it.

 

The way I see it we don't work any harder than people overseas, we were just fortunate enough to be born in a country that many years ago managed to build up its economy, education systems etc whereas other countries are held back for a variety of reasons, usually lack of education, poverty etc.

 

If people in other countries are trying to bend the system in order to get a share of the cake, then fair play to them. We have an obligation to share our good fortune with others.

 

Utter liberal tosh, we do not live and work in some sort of utopia, I am fully aware of the world and country I live in and so the entitlement I have available to me. You only have to look at the issues in our own country with the EDL and the other extremists that highlight this so effectively.

 

It is my thanks to being educated and a citizen of this country that makes me want to defend it so vigilantly.

 

A government should first and foremost look after its citizens, that is what WE as legal occupants vote them into power for. Would I be made to feel as welcome in any other country ? Are there people that would gladly disinigrate our liberties ?

 

While I applaud your ivory tower approach unfortunately it is all whispy hippy crap. I am all for immigration and taking in those that genuinely fear aggression. I also realise that we need specialist from abroad. The immigration system that Oz uses seems to be one the works very well, why can we not adopt a similar system ?

 

I also assume you despise material things and have no desire to improve yourself or your home ? Choosing instead to give what you have to others ?

[ant]

Ex Lion Tamer's covered it for me. By entitlement I refer to the fact that many residents of this fair isle see it as ours, ours, ours and fear their slice of the pie reducing. A relatively meagre wage by UK standards still puts me in the top 1.5% worldwide. Have I worked harder than 98.5% of the world to get to that position? Not a chance, it's almost entirely borne of circumstance.

 

obviously not

why dont you give your house up, or half of your salary to someone who is here illegally?

I suspect you would never dream of it, mind

 

That's a ridiculous example. If you're talking about an individual illegal immigrant, the nationwide impact spread as a percentage of your wealth wouldn't even be noticeable.

 

It's not a case of aspiring to a utopian society, rather acting with some semblance of fairness and compassion. I am not in favour of an 'open door' policy but do not believe that the options are so cut and dry as some make out. Equally if we're going to start talking about defending wealth, how as a country are we entitled to that which previous generations raped and pillaged from other nations?

Edited 2 August, 2013 by ant

[Minty]

Would you be happy to give up your job and your home in order for an illegal to move in ? Or does your self rightous piety only go as far as shaming the majority for thinking that britain should be for brits first and foremost ?

obviously not

why dont you give your house up, or half of your salary to someone who is here illegally?

I suspect you would never dream of it, mind

 

ELT clearly doesn't mean that, and it's a bit silly to suggest it IMO. There is no benefit in helping someone if there is an equally detrimental effect to someone else. However, measured steps can (and should, IMO) be taken to gradually reduce the gap between those who 'have' and those who do not in whatever country they come from. We are generally very fortunate and it would actually only need a small amount of assistance from our country to assist those with far greater medical/educational needs than ourselves, but what comes across from so many is that they are more concerned about maintaining and increasing their own personal wealth and that of our country, than being able to reasonably help those less fortunate. And I'm not talking about on an individual basis here, but by supporting measures that the country as a whole could take collectively, or indeed any group of people who 'have', to help those who do not.

 

Ultimately, it all comes down to personal ethics, and I'm with ELT... wealth (not just financial either) should be shared as reasonably as possible, for the benefit of everyone, especially where it simply helps people to achieve and maintain basic human needs.

[pap]

dont lock it, crack on.

its a football forum, so dont expect much proper debate though

 

Mate, just cos you can't play, don't knock the entire team.

[Batman]

Mate, just cos you can't play, don't knock the entire team.

 

bit rich coming from you?

[Barry Sanchez]

Ex Lion Tamer's covered it for me. By entitlement I refer to the fact that many residents of this fair isle see it as ours, ours, ours and fear their slice of the pie reducing. A relatively meagre wage by UK standards still puts me in the top 1.5% worldwide. Have I worked harder than 98.5% of the world to get to that position? Not a chance, it's almost entirely borne of circumstance.

 

 

 

That's a ridiculous example. If you're talking about an individual illegal immigrant the impact as a percentage of your wealth wouldn't even be noticeable.

 

It's not a case of aspiring to some form of utopia, but acting with some semblance of fairness and compassion. I am not in favour of an 'open door' policy but do not believe that the options are so cut and dry as some make out. Equally if we're going to start talking about defending wealth, how as a country are we entitled to that which previous generations raped and pillaged from other nations?

 

I'll happily take in a positive immigrant anyday of the week if you move somewhere else so you can weep and apologise to other sandal wearer over our past, most sandal wearers move to even more extreme Countries with genuine poor records of looking after immigrants, USA, Australia etc etc.

[Barry Sanchez]

First of all democracy has to be in place in all these Countries and then we can discuss this Utopian World we all desire.

[Bearsy]

Utter liberal tosh, we do not live and work in some sort of utopia

 

yeah i dunno. I was instinctive on the side of the immigrants cos they seem like the victims & i think it seems bad manners to send them away when they really love it here so much. But then on the other hand i imagined if i went home & found there was 10 or so immigrants hanging about my gaff doing each others nails or whatever. I reckon it would be ok at first, i could learn about their cultures & knob their daughters but pretty soon i would get tired of queueing for bathroom

[bridge too far]

Slightly off topic but look at this interesting article from the BBC website

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23529849

 

It would seem from this that selfish people have evolved less than selfless people!

[ant]

I'll happily take in a positive immigrant anyday of the week if you move somewhere else so you can weep and apologise to other sandal wearer over our past, most sandal wearers move to even more extreme Countries with genuine poor records of looking after immigrants, USA, Australia etc etc.

 

Hahaha, I am no sandal wearer. I'm also no apologist looking for an exit route. I'd prefer to fix what's here, thanks.

 

Minty's summary is very eloquent, IMO.

Edited 2 August, 2013 by ant

[Barry Sanchez]

Slightly off topic but look at this interesting article from the BBC website

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23529849

 

It would seem from this that selfish people have evolved less than selfless people!

 

Code = Join the Union.

[Minty]

Gotta love the use of 'sandal wearer' as some kind of derogatory term... what exactly do people think they mean when using it? IMO, a bit like any name calling, it only seems to reflect on those who try to use such terms. What happened to good old fashioned debate?

[Barry Sanchez]

Hahaha, I am no sandal wearer. I'm also no apologist looking for an exit route. I'd prefer to fix what's here, thanks.

 

Minty's summary is very eloquent, IMO.

 

Maybe that point could and should be taken with immigrants Country of origin? The issue there is the sandal wearer say its another invasion. The sensible collective get whalloped by the Liberal's and extreme left yet again.

[Barry Sanchez]

Gotta love the use of 'sandal wearer' as some kind of derogatory term... what exactly do people think they mean when using it? IMO, a bit like any name calling, it only seems to reflect on those who try to use such terms. What happened to good old fashioned debate?

 

The good old fashioned debate normally ends with the extreme left calling the centre left/middle/right raving racists.

[ant]

The good old fashioned debate normally ends with the extreme left calling the centre left/middle/right raving racists.

 

If the person you're debating with is cogent, you'll only get called racist if you're a bit... well, y'know.

 

You seem to like a good name call or buzzword yourself though, Barry.

[Barry Sanchez]

If the person you're debating with is cogent, you'll only get called racist if you're a bit... well, y'know.

 

You seem to like a good name call or buzzword yourself though, Barry.

 

Errr no I dont, quote me where I have ever stated anything ever racist? Slur's thats all, the extreme left sandal wearers have been sleeping too close together under the tepee.........

[Barry Sanchez]

http://www.tfheaven.free-online.co.uk/modernparents.jpg

[ant]

Errr no I dont, quote me where I have ever stated anything ever racist? Slur's thats all, the extreme left sandal wearers have been sleeping too close together under the tepee.........

 

At no point did I accuse you as such. You proved my point though - 'sandal wearer' and 'extreme left' seem to be the Barry Sanchez Labels of the Month.

[Barry Sanchez]

At no point did I accuse you as such. You proved my point though - 'sandal wearer' and 'extreme left' seem to be the Barry Sanchez Labels of the Month.

 

You implied as much, go one step further lad and prove it? Sandal wearer and extreme left have been around for donkeys, not new well for you maybe.

[Bearsy]

sandal wearing goes all the way back to biblical times

[Barry Sanchez]

sandal wearing goes all the way back to biblical times

 

Even further Dolcis shoes have had a branch in Cairo for 3000 years................................

[ant]

You implied as much, go one step further lad and prove it?

 

Did nothing of the sort. Read it back - in other words I said that if you're debating with a reasonable person, they'll only call you racist if you're racist. As a term it's often bandied about wantonly, causing it to lose its real impact.

[Barry Sanchez]

Mmmm debatable the .......... is suspicious, why would you simply not write what you meant as opposed to appear at the very least to insinuate?

[buctootim]

This thread is on fire. Ive been persuaded.

[Minty]

This thread is on fire. Ive been persuaded.

 

Which way though?

[buctootim]

Ive been taken through the gamut of emotions by persuasive use of facts and adroit debating. Spun round and around until Im 360 degrees from where I started.

[Minty]

Ive been taken through the gamut of emotions by persuasive use of facts and adroit debating. Spun round and around until Im 360 degrees from where I started.

 

... the outcome being that you still think Guly is crap...?!

[buctootim]

... the outcome being that you now think Guly is crap...?!

 

Him or Fox, who to scapegoat? Choices, choices, choices....

[Minty]

Sorry Barry/ant, we digressed... back to you guys.

[buctootim]

Sorry Barry/ant, we digressed... back to you guys.

 

Yes, apologies. Back to the killer facts.

[pap]

bit rich coming from you?

 

You're entitled to that view, mucker.

 

I don't share it.

 

This has been an interesting thread anyways. I like ant's points about the lottery ticket we all won by being fired out of a womb in Britain, but am somewhat less happy to see some of the more inhuman attitudes, like holepuncture's classy "vermin".

 

The sad thing is, I bet his only crime is saying what a lot of people think anyway. I've encountered the Home Office before; they're not nice if you're the target of their attention. Look at the people ragging the lad out of the Nail Bar. Do they look like fine upstanding compatriots, or a couple of fat f**ks getting to throw their considerable weight about? At least the illegal immigrant hasn't let himself go! They look like pigs to me. I resent my taxpayer cash going to feed their fat, trough-seeking faces. I find it amazing that this is the publicity shot the Home Office chose to promote themselves. Fat f*cking stormtroopers? Whatever next?

 

ant's right though. We have all won the lottery by being born here, even if you're born without a pot to p!ss in. Free education, health, an expectation of safety when out and about - we take it all for granted. Contrast that with some of the poor bastards that have made it here, and I can't blame them for trying, not even the economic migrants. Most people want to improve their own situation through hard work. We happen to live in a country where that is still possible.

[Batman]

I remember asking you the question about the off chance you winning £1m on another lottery. The actual one. You said you would NOT be giving your winning away to the needy

[Bearsy]

I remember asking you the question about the off chance you winning £1m on another lottery. The actual one. You said you would NOT be giving your winning away to the needy

 

he fuckin better do! I've based my whole fiscal strategy on one day getting a lottery payout from pap!