alpine_saint Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 You are NC, you can buy one more player before Katharina Liebherr snaps her purse shut on your fingers. Striker or CB ? Both were inadequate last night. I say CB - I reckon Rickie will perk up again once the season starts. And Billy hasnt moved on yet, has he ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 a CB - that is also very good at LB or RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Striker for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Hard choice (and good non moaney thread for once). It would be very hard to pick. I'm still not sure about the Lovren signing (quite a lot for a fourth choice CB who as yet is not proven quality) and would have liked us to splash out a bit on someone like Astori. Having said that one of our biggest weaknesses last year was fannying about and not having a whallop. Would be great to get a new striker and I think it would change the dynamics of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Striker. As we saw in the 2nd half last night when JRod & SRL went off, a strike force of Mayuka/Lallana would struggle in the Championship (actually, belay that they'd struggle at Development Squad level) We still have Yoshida to come back and Lovren showed glimpses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Striker. Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Neither. We'd be fine for both. If we could only sign one more player then it'd be a creative attacking midfielder/winger. All views imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Neither. We'd be fine for both. If we could only sign one more player then it'd be a creative attacking midfielder/winger. We want to be more than fine though. Certainly if our goal is to finish top half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 25 July, 2013 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2013 I am just realising how tough my own question is. That second half really was worryingly toothless. TBF I havent seen Maya enough to judge if he and Lovren will work. Hopefully that changes on Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Its interesting that lots were crying out for full back cover, or wingers yet actually these areas we are fine. We only need two more signings to be a really decent team: striker and another CB. Up front we are light even more so if Lambert gets injured as we don't have any else proven at scoring in this league. We badly need a striker. At the back we are still also fairly weak. Put simply, we need a partner for Lovren. Yoshida is far superior to Hooiveld and Fonte but we could improve on him. Currently, we are an injury away from Fonte or Hooiveld being a first choice, and nice guys as they are, neither is a top 10 PL defender, and IMO no other PL team would be interested in either of them - they probably aren't even lower half quality. They were the weak links last year, and in all other positions we have largely phased out the previous weak links... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabrone Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Striker by a long distance. As good as RL is we badly need pace up front to open up our game. Defence is OK, attack is a bit threadbare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Agree with this, definitely need a CB AND a striker. I'm not convinced about Lovren. If it turns out he's not the real deal we are in big trouble next season. We are prone to panic buys. I hope we're still in the market for a CB. Yes that is my worry too. I suspect we didn't get Astori but got this guy instead. If we can get in another decent CB it would relieve that pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Yes that is my worry too. I suspect we didn't get Astori but got this guy instead. If we can get in another decent CB it would relieve that pressure. Lovren IMO will be fine, but its about a solid pairing and whilst Yoshida is good I have no faith in either Fonte or Hooiveld at the level we want to be. Wouldn't even cost a lot to get a better defender in than those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Lovren IMO will be fine, but its about a solid pairing and whilst Yoshida is good I have no faith in either Fonte or Hooiveld at the level we want to be. Wouldn't even cost a lot to get a better defender in than those two. What do you base that on? He had a worryingly poor year last season and they were very pleased to see him go by all accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 What do you base that on? He had a worryingly poor year last season and they were very pleased to see him go by all accounts. Based on the fact he is clearly a better player than the CBs we already have. We need a good partner for him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 We want to be more than fine though. Certainly if our goal is to finish top half. Oh absolutely, but we'd need more than one signing to be more than fine. As long as we're creating chances I'd trust Lambert and Rodriguez to convert some of them, so a new attacking midfielder (or winger even) would be my choice if we only had one signing. At the back we have Jos, Jose, Dejan, Maya and even Stephens and Turnbull if absolutely necessary. We'd muddle through (at least until January) in both positions if we HAD to. (To stick religiously to Alps question though, I'd vote for a striker.) Not that I think we will rest on our laurels with one signing - I firmly believe (or it could be blind optimism) that we'll have another striker, winger and defender in before August is out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 We need a striker with pace who can score at least 12 goals a season and make as many more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 We need a striker with genuine pace but they don't come cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 The whole striker with pace thing is a bit of a myth IMO. Look at a lot of the top goalscorers and they arent pacy. In the PL last year RVP, Benteke, Michu, Lambert. Suarez is fairly quick but not lightning. Already this summer Higuain and Cavani have sold for 100m - neither has a game based on pace. They are just good players and good finishers. Players that combine pace and skill etc are so rare. Bale, Ronaldo etc - very, very few of them about. The strikers we have been looking at, Damiao, Osvaldo etc arent lightning quick and they don't need to be, they are just good strikers. We need someone who is a good alround player, more mobile than Lambert, and can create chances for themselves. Mayuka is lightning/genuine pace etc, so is Jonno Forte, but neither is much good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Striker! Rickie is not going to get any better, he will struggle this season, the Premiership has no place for sentiment much as we love him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Whatever happens I am sure our fantastic chairman ably supported by les and the committee will identity the right players in the right positions at the right price to continue our onwards journey in a timely and efficient manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Striker, IMO. I don't think pace is the priority though, I'd rather have wide players with pace alongside an intelligent striker, regardless of the strikers pace. What we need is a striker who can make chances for himself and others, with excellent finishing ability. Our defence record towards the end of last season wasn't terrible, we didn't concede enough to think it's the priority that's for sure, but we've strengthened regardless so should be in a very good place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanh Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Good question in the OP. I'll go for a new striker. If we can get the right one in who will score goals we are more likely to earn points as a result, compared to getting in another defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 The whole striker with pace thing is a bit of a myth IMO. Look at a lot of the top goalscorers and they arent pacy. In the PL last year RVP, Benteke, Michu, Lambert. Suarez is fairly quick but not lightning. Already this summer Higuain and Cavani have sold for 100m - neither has a game based on pace. They are just good players and good finishers. Players that combine pace and skill etc are so rare. Bale, Ronaldo etc - very, very few of them about. The strikers we have been looking at, Damiao, Osvaldo etc arent lightning quick and they don't need to be, they are just good strikers. We need someone who is a good alround player, more mobile than Lambert, and can create chances for themselves. Mayuka is lightning/genuine pace etc, so is Jonno Forte, but neither is much good... It's like those who demanded a pacy centre half. Who exactly? You could probably list on one hand the good centre halves who have been known for their pace in the last 20 years. Pace is only good if you can actually do something with it. Players that are very quick and can play cost 50 odd million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 It's like those who demanded a pacy centre half. Who exactly? You could probably list on one hand the good centre halves who have been known for their pace in the last 20 years. Pace is only good if you can actually do something with it. Players that are very quick and can play cost 50 odd million. Exactly. With so many teams in the PL playing a 4-2-3-1 or 4-5-1 system the strikers en vogue are now the bigger but still athletic players like a Cavani, Benteke, Bony etc. They can do a bit of everything and still get goals. That is exactly the sort of striker we need but once they are above the radar they cost a fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefuriousb Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 What do you base that on? He had a worryingly poor year last season and they were very pleased to see him go by all accounts. Based on 'own personal opinion' - the same how yours was. Lets judge the poor soul once he has played a competitive game and not write him off based on a pre-season fitness exercise. I would also add that a lot of the criticisms you have of Lovren are the same levied at the more expensive Davide Astori ...if you believe everything that is written/said. Who is to know whether we have paid over the odds or have pulled off a master stroke when he was said to have been on the radar of far bigger clubs than us when he was not injured nor in dispute with his coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Based on 'own personal opinion' - the same how yours was. Lets judge the poor soul once he has played a competitive game and not write him off based on a pre-season fitness exercise. I would also add that a lot of the criticisms you have of Lovren are the same levied at the more expensive Davide Astori ...if you believe everything that is written/said. Who is to know whether we have paid over the odds or have pulled off a master stroke when he was said to have been on the radar of far bigger clubs than us when he was not injured nor in dispute with his coach Oh dear. Not sure I even mentioned pre season and once again posters are saying a player is being 'written off'. Please show me where he has been written off? Clearly failing to read or understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 I think Lovren will be the Killer to Maya's Claus. We then have Jos and Jose has back-up. I also think JRod will have a good season. And, of course, we have SRL - but nobody else worthwhile up front. So, given the choice Alpine set and the system we are likely to play, I would go for a striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 I think Lovren will be the Killer to Maya's Claus. We then have Jos and Jose has back-up. I also think JRod will have a good season. And, of course, we have SRL - but nobody else worthwhile up front. So, given the choice Alpine set and the system we are likely to play, I would go for a striker. Samsies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 I think Lovren will be the Killer to Maya's Claus. We then have Jos and Jose has back-up. I also think JRod will have a good season. And, of course, we have SRL - but nobody else worthwhile up front. So, given the choice Alpine set and the system we are likely to play, I would go for a striker. Problem is, no team gets through a season using just two CBs. The chances are that Hooiveld and Fonte will start 20 games between them....and they will cost us points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 What do you base that on? He had a worryingly poor year last season and they were very pleased to see him go by all accounts. Purely out of curiosity, how many times did you see him play last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 The whole striker with pace thing is a bit of a myth IMO. Look at a lot of the top goalscorers and they arent pacy. In the PL last year RVP, Benteke, Michu, Lambert. Suarez is fairly quick but not lightning. Already this summer Higuain and Cavani have sold for 100m - neither has a game based on pace. They are just good players and good finishers. Players that combine pace and skill etc are so rare. Bale, Ronaldo etc - very, very few of them about. The strikers we have been looking at, Damiao, Osvaldo etc arent lightning quick and they don't need to be, they are just good strikers. We need someone who is a good alround player, more mobile than Lambert, and can create chances for themselves. Mayuka is lightning/genuine pace etc, so is Jonno Forte, but neither is much good... I'll agree to disagree as to me we are crying out for pace up top to match our pressing style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 25 July, 2013 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Problem is, no team gets through a season using just two CBs. The chances are that Hooiveld and Fonte will start 20 games between them....and they will cost us points. Similar to my concern. How many points did we drop last season from winning positions ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefuriousb Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Purely out of curiosity, how many times did you see him play last season? Uh-oh. What have you done? Expect to be told to stand in the corner foryour show of insolence. You do know that Hypo was not bing in any way critical or down on a player of ours, esp one that has not yet had the opportunity to show his merits. Tsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Striker. Goals every time, even if we continue leaking at the back (which we will anyway given our forward style of play). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabrone Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 I'll agree to disagree as to me we are crying out for pace up top to match our pressing style. Would also allow Gaston to be able to pass the ball forwards down the channels. He's been a bit neutered by the lack of pace up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Problem is, no team gets through a season using just two CBs. The chances are that Hooiveld and Fonte will start 20 games between them....and they will cost us points. I will make a wild prediction here: every CB who plays in the PL will make mistakes at some point during the coming season; these mistakes may then cost their team points. I, too, would not like to have either Jos or Jose as our first choice CBs. I would also love it we were to bring in another top CB (i.e. an Astori) to partner Lovren, therefore making Maya 3rd choice. But I would rather we got a top quality striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 No question we need another striker before CB The defense got tighter towards the end and would've learnt a lot. Plus having Wanyama in front of them will make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teacher Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 I think that we need a striker that can also play wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonraker Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 This discussion needs some quantitative analysis to prove conclusively where our transfer activity should be focused. I have therefore taken the liberty to create a fool proof Multi Criteria Decision Analysis tool, the results are below! Competency of Current Incumbent 0 - 3 where 0 = Championship at best, 1 = OK could do better, 2 = Premiership Standard and 3 + Champions League Finalist Current Specialist Replacement 0 = no 1 = yes Competency of Cover 0 -3: where 0 = Championship at best, 1 = OK could do better, 2 = Premiership Standard and 3 + Champions League Finalist Weighting 3 1.5 2 GKP 2 1 1 LB 2 1 1 LCB 2 0 1 RCB 2 1 2 RB 2 0 2 DMF 2 1 1 DMF 2 1 1 LAM 2 0 1 RAM 2 1 1 ST 1 2 1 1 ST 2 2 0 0 RANKING GKP 6 1.5 2 9.5 LB 6 1.5 2 9.5 LCB 5 1.5 3 9.5 RCB 6 1.5 4 11.5 RB 6 0 4 10 DMF 6 1.5 2 9.5 DMF 6 1.5 2 9.5 LAM 6 0 2 8 RAM 6 1.5 2 9.5 ST 1 6 1.5 2 9.5 ST 2 6 0 0 6 So the results clearly show that our priorities are for a Striker and Left Sided Attacking Midfielder. This irrefutable quantitative evidence should now put a stop to these continual subjective based discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 This discussion needs some quantitative analysis to prove conclusively where our transfer activity should be focused. I have therefore taken the liberty to create a fool proof Multi Criteria Decision Analysis tool, the results are below! Competency of Current Incumbent 0 - 3 where 0 = Championship at best, 1 = OK could do better, 2 = Premiership Standard and 3 + Champions League Finalist Current Specialist Replacement 0 = no 1 = yes Competency of Cover 0 -3: where 0 = Championship at best, 1 = OK could do better, 2 = Premiership Standard and 3 + Champions League Finalist Weighting 3 1.5 2 GKP 2 1 1 LB 2 1 1 LCB 2 0 1 RCB 2 1 2 RB 2 0 2 DMF 2 1 1 DMF 2 1 1 LAM 2 0 1 RAM 2 1 1 ST 1 2 1 1 ST 2 2 0 0 RANKING GKP 6 1.5 2 9.5 LB 6 1.5 2 9.5 LCB 5 1.5 3 9.5 RCB 6 1.5 4 11.5 RB 6 0 4 10 DMF 6 1.5 2 9.5 DMF 6 1.5 2 9.5 LAM 6 0 2 8 RAM 6 1.5 2 9.5 ST 1 6 1.5 2 9.5 ST 2 6 0 0 6 So the results clearly show that our priorities are for a Striker and Left Sided Attacking Midfielder. This irrefutable quantitative evidence should now put a stop to these continual subjective based discussions. Some interesting stuff there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Proven striker with pace for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave Sir Robin Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 I think we need both, but a striker is slightly more urgent. A proper, best we could possibly attract given our status type, too. Someone along the lines of Lukaku. And yes, we'd probably need to spend upwards of £20m and £80k+ in wages per week. That's if we want to push on. If we fail to significantly improve our strength in depth, I think we're realistically looking at finishing 12th - 18th at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berudenot2 Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 IMHO we have good cover in the CB positions. Likely first choice pairing being Lovren & Maya but look beyond Fonte and Jos as both Jordan Turnbull and Jack Stephens are very assured. My concern is cover for Luke Shaw as the choice seems limited to Fox alone unless Clyne gets switched to LB and Chambers covers Clyne. So it would be LB and striker for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 We need a striker with genuine pace but they don't come cheap. I'd say a fox in the box and a winger with genuine pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westmidlandsaint Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disconnect Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Definitely a striker. With Lovren (who will be first choice), we've got Yoshida who is a good player (apart from at full back) and prem standard, along with Hooiveld, who proved he's a decent option last season after a shaky start, and Fonte who is also pretty decent, and probably about as good as we can hope for 4th choice in our current position. The two youngsters are also supposed to be good but havent seen them outside of a few development / under 21 matches. If we were to sign someone else that'd be the end of either Hooiveld or Fonte. Upfront we have Lambert who obviously had a good season last year, but definitely was tiring and pretty ineffectual in a few games near the back end of the year - and will we really expect him to play every game in a high pressure system we're now playing? J-Rod I've been pretty impressed with his running and commitment - work on the placement of a few shots and he could easily score 10-15 next season if played upfront. Mayuka has also impressed me a little in the few opportunities he's been given / times i've seen him - and hopefully after a bit more time in and around the squad he'll be a decent option off the bench, but feel he's probably a bit of a confidence player, and obviously hasnt got much not playing often. However, beyond that, we're really struggling. Any injuries / suspensions and what are we going to do? Guly might do a job for a match or two, but he's more a midfielder, and we dont want to rely on that. Think a striker is on the cards we've all we've been linked with, and think they're prepared to pay big to get the right one. It's pretty exciting, but also frustrating. Fingers crossed we see a good striker brought in soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 think Poch will be desperately disappointed not to have signed a first rate striker by now. Another season of Lambert ...no thanks, slow as a donkey yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 25 July, 2013 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Fonte is not "pretty decent". He is a journeyman at this level, though I agree about hinm being 4th choice at the club currently. But then that makes Jos 3rd choice.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 A CB easily for me, good teams are built around a solid defence. Goals will always come and I think Jay Rod could do double figures this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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