david in sweden Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 Just acquainting myself with the new League table(s) we see those traditional "derby" fixtures every season. United and Citeh, the Merseyside pair and Newcastle v. Sunderland in the North East. ....not to mention the North London " hate games " between Arsenal and Spurs, but I noted that there are some unusual (not to say strange) pairings that will play each other down in the South and West. "derby games" , by tradition have some sort of "sting" to them and those old, and not to say rare, matches between Saints and Pompey are certainly a thing of the past. A quick look at the other leagues turned up some interesting fixtures that, although lacking any real historical precedent, are close enough for a short car / coach ride for their traveling fans. Brighton (no doubt) regard their games worth Bournemouth as one although with Reading and Yeovil in their fixtures those will, at least, be more " geographically friendly games " than Middlesboro and Blackpool. L1. Bristol City (one of those yo-yo clubs who rotate between CC and L1), will have several trips to the Midlands; Coventry, Walsall and Wolves although the greatest rivalry may be when they play Swindon. L2. The other Bristol side (Rovers) might wish they still had Rickie Lambert on their books, especially as that £1 million fee may seem light years away now and has certainly long gone in trying to keep the club solvent. It's not far to Newport or Cheltenham for them, whereas those three South-western coastal clubs (Plymouth, Exeter and Torquay) all play in the same divison again next season. Which leaves Portsmouth - remember them ? ..(on the way down to non-league Conference football) unless they can find a miracle from somewhere... have Wimbledon as their nearest rivals. Whilst it's down to Cardiff and Swansea to out-sing each other down in South Wales, Saints' nearest opposition will now (on the map at least) be Fulham and Palace (not so exciting perhaps) although I've always liked to compare us with Tottenham or West Ham (from a historical perspective). New season only a month away, we'll see who come out as "top dog" in their regional derbies. Would be interesting to hear if any of you, living in other parts of the country, have memories or tales of " traditional derby rivalry " between clubs in your area ....(current or historical ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 Cardiff v Swansea could be interesting ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 (edited) why would brighton class a game with bournemouth a 'derby'..? it is 97 miles in distance between the two it annoys me when people try and say Plymouth v Southampton is some sort of derby. its a 3 hour f-ing drive Bristol v Plymouth is also NOT a derby. its over 120 miles ffs as for derbies in the prem.. man city/united liverpool/everton cardiff/swansea spurs/arsenal/chelsea/west ham/fulham/palace in various combinations sunderland/newcastle a fair few really Edited 23 July, 2013 by Batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 The old Bristol City v Coventry classic derby. Can't wait for that one. FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 The old Bristol City v Coventry classic derby. Can't wait for that one. FFS. its over 100 miles between the two???? WTF? I get that a few teams have a deep rivalry and sometimes classed as a derby. that really applies to liverpool/united or say, brighton/palace. but, WTF??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 its over 100 miles between the two???? WTF? I get that a few teams have a deep rivalry and sometimes classed as a derby. that really applies to liverpool/united or say, brighton/palace. but, WTF??? David in Sweden: effing nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 Wolves v Walsall, Port Vale v Crewe & Sheff Utd v Rotherham are proper local derbies in L1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 Wolves v Walsall, Port Vale v Crewe & Sheff Utd v Rotherham are proper local derbies in L1. Forest/Derby/Leicester triangle and Burnley/Blackburn in NPC. There's plenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 Forest/Derby/Leicester triangle and Burnley/Blackburn in NPC. There's plenty. I've no idea what the Swedish fella was wittering on about if I'm honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Man Do Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 As for Bristol Rovers they've brought in plenty so staying solvent? Only in the same way every other league 2 team does! Bet they can't wait for their big derby against York! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 I've been to the Celtic Rangers derby, Celtic won 5-1, it's was a mad day. Blokes drunk at 10 o'clock in the morning, some lad chasing another with a hammer, a old bloke kneeling down and praying in the street after the game, men crying when the fifth goal went in, the guy in front of me sleeping through the whole game, his companion was more interested in fighting the steward who had a no smoking sign than watching the game, the pub afterwards had the game on loop for days, the Irish club we went to in the evening was rocking. A memorable day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 23 July, 2013 Author Share Posted 23 July, 2013 I've no idea what the Swedish fella was wittering on about if I'm honest. well to start with, I'm English (born in So'ton)..and just happen to live in Sweden. The analysis was based on teams in the South and West rather than the rest of the country. As for those people who got their calculators out and clocked the distance....100 miles on a motorway isn't so much - or is it. So when is a " derby " not a derby?. Is 30 miles OK - but not 50? Is it purely down to geography, or are some people afraid to drive so far - even though it is the nearest opposition in their league. Brighton may be (geographically) closer to Crawley... but they're not in the same League yet, and to my knowledge they have little / no previous history against each other, whereas Brighton have some history against South London sides. I'd never regard Reading as a derby game for Saints, (no genuine history) - but they were closer than many other sides. My point there was I think many Brighton fans would be happier travelling along the coast to Bournemouth, or to Reading or Yeovil than upto the North East, or to Blackpool. That's certainly no easy " day out ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 well to start with, I'm English (born in So'ton)..and just happen to live in Sweden. The analysis was based on teams in the South and West rather than the rest of the country. As for those people who got their calculators out and clocked the distance....100 miles on a motorway isn't so much - or is it. So when is a " derby " not a derby?. Is 30 miles OK - but not 50? Is it purely down to geography, or are some people afraid to drive so far - even though it is the nearest opposition in their league. Brighton may be (geographically) closer to Crawley... but they're not in the same League yet, and to my knowledge they have little / no previous history against each other, whereas Brighton have some history against South London sides. I'd never regard Reading as a derby game for Saints, (no genuine history) - but they were closer than many other sides. My point there was I think many Brighton fans would be happier travelling along the coast to Bournemouth, or to Reading or Yeovil than upto the North East, or to Blackpool. That's certainly no easy " day out ". You're fu.ckin nuts mush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suewhistle Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 David in Sweden: effing nuts. CB Fry: effing unpleasant as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 I think what hes trying to say is that, for example, a Bristol city fan would prefer to go to see them play against Coventry because its easier to get to than Hartlepool, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 23 July, 2013 Author Share Posted 23 July, 2013 I think what hes trying to say is that, for example, a Bristol city fan would prefer to go to see them play against Coventry because its easier to get to than Hartlepool, yes? Yes Turkish. THX. At least someone understood my reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 23 July, 2013 Author Share Posted 23 July, 2013 You're fu.ckin nuts mush. well I've noted your point of view anyway. Let me know when you have an interesting post and I'll return the compliment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 Yes Turkish. THX. At least someone understood my reasoning. Ahh. I see it now. What a valuable insight you've brought to the forum. So to summarise, for clubs in the west country, some away trips are shorter than other away trips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 Keep your head up Davie Sweden, don't let them get you down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 23 July, 2013 Author Share Posted 23 July, 2013 Ahh. I see it now. What a valuable insight you've brought to the forum. So to summarise, for clubs in the west country, some away trips are shorter than other away trips. ....and now you've understood it, too CB. Wasn't so difficult, or was it? Anyway, you and Turkish must be the smartest two Mensa fans on the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southamptonbairn Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 The "derby" game relates to the horse race as the biggest race of the season. The derby game being the biggest game of the season. More often than not, fans biggest game was against their nearest rivals. Hence the term "local derby" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 23 July, 2013 Author Share Posted 23 July, 2013 Keep your head up Davie Sweden, don't let them get you down.[/quote) Thanks, Dig Dig...but no chance of that. I only write for those who may be interested in the topic, the others don't need to read me if they don't like the content. If they have nothing better to do than insult others...maybe they need another distraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 Newport fans will be more than happy to have Bristol Rovers as a derby after years of the likes of Forest Green Rovers, the now-defunct Merthyr Tydfil, Gloucester City, Worcester City and the inauspicious early seasons with Swindon Supermarine and Almondsbury Picksons as their nearest rivals. Of course they also beat Cardiff City the last time the two played. How are we managing to have this thread without further discussion of the massive void Saints have rival-wise at the moment ? Fulham or Chelsea ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 23 July, 2013 Author Share Posted 23 July, 2013 The "derby" game relates to the horse race as the biggest race of the season. The derby game being the biggest game of the season. More often than not, fans biggest game was against their nearest rivals. Hence the term "local derby" yes I figured that one out, too. ...and so it may have been ...in my fathers' time. The only time he ever left So'ton (aside from following Saints to away games) was his WW2 service in North Africa and the Middle East. An article stated that " 100 years ago.... " the majority of people were born, grew up, lived ..and died in the same community and seldom travelled more than 10 miles from their home. However, these days, even London " sounds local " in Prem. standards anyway.....compared to say ...Manchester, Merseyside or the North East, and nowadays the biggest game is not always a " local one " (geographically speaking) ..and fans have alternative forms of transport available - don't they? I know people from So'ton and IOW who travel to London to work....I'm sure you do. I agree it's hardly " local ", but some people make travelling to London sound like it's the Moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 Can't believe I just read all that to learn that people, especially in the West Country, will keep an eye out for those fixtures closer to home, rather than a 600 mile round trip. Fascinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 I've been to the Celtic Rangers derby, it's was a mad day. Blokes drunk at 10 o'clock in the morning, some lad chasing another with a hammer, a old bloke kneeling down and praying in the street. A memorable day. Thats a normal day in Glasgow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 Ahh. I see it now. What a valuable insight you've brought to the forum. So to summarise, for clubs in the west country, some away trips are shorter than other away trips. It really was insightful stuff, we need more threads like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 It really was insightful stuff, we need more threads like this. In the days when this forum was brilliant, it was full of threads like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 Can't believe I just read all that to learn that people, especially in the West Country, will keep an eye out for those fixtures closer to home, rather than a 600 mile round trip. Fascinating. Don't think we'd have worked it out if it wasn't for Dave in Sweden. What an insight he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 Just acquainting myself with the new League table(s) we see those traditional "derby" fixtures every season. United and Citeh, the Merseyside pair and Newcastle v. Sunderland in the North East. ....not to mention the North London " hate games " between Arsenal and Spurs, but I noted that there are some unusual (not to say strange) pairings that will play each other down in the South and West. "derby games" , by tradition have some sort of "sting" to them and those old, and not to say rare, matches between Saints and Pompey are certainly a thing of the past. A quick look at the other leagues turned up some interesting fixtures that, although lacking any real historical precedent, are close enough for a short car / coach ride for their traveling fans. Brighton (no doubt) regard their games worth Bournemouth as one although with Reading and Yeovil in their fixtures those will, at least, be more " geographically friendly games " than Middlesboro and Blackpool. L1. Bristol City (one of those yo-yo clubs who rotate between CC and L1), will have several trips to the Midlands; Coventry, Walsall and Wolves although the greatest rivalry may be when they play Swindon. L2. The other Bristol side (Rovers) might wish they still had Rickie Lambert on their books, especially as that £1 million fee may seem light years away now and has certainly long gone in trying to keep the club solvent. It's not far to Newport or Cheltenham for them, whereas those three South-western coastal clubs (Plymouth, Exeter and Torquay) all play in the same divison again next season. Which leaves Portsmouth - remember them ? ..(on the way down to non-league Conference football) unless they can find a miracle from somewhere... have Wimbledon as their nearest rivals. Whilst it's down to Cardiff and Swansea to out-sing each other down in South Wales, Saints' nearest opposition will now (on the map at least) be Fulham and Palace (not so exciting perhaps) although I've always liked to compare us with Tottenham or West Ham (from a historical perspective). New season only a month away, we'll see who come out as "top dog" in their regional derbies. Would be interesting to hear if any of you, living in other parts of the country, have memories or tales of " traditional derby rivalry " between clubs in your area ....(current or historical ?) I know you are trying to create some reasonable discussion on here (lets face it, it is a long summer!) But you are being far too harsh on Bristol city.. describing them as a yo yo club between championship and league 1 is on a par with describing Fulham as a yo yo club to the championship. City were in the championship for a similar period of time to Fulham in the premier and almost got promoted... twice! As for rovers. They are my dads boyhood side, and since I am now living 10min down the road I will certainly be going there to scream abuse at the dirty fish scum from down the road. Both those teams are bigger than their respective divisions and only need to get on a role and get their new grounds to be championship pushing for premier. I will always be a pirate myself, no matter what league they are in vs city. As for derbies.... Lets not kid ourselves. We would all love to give Brighton a good spanking if we played them again... And a hell of a lot of saints fans don't like West Ham, so for me, that is the match that matters (small matter of the championship season arrogance and last years 4-1 to put to bed, then I can move on!) Bournemouth are like a much younger brother.. can't help but look out for them despite when they are annoying at times. And that is it for us. Portsmouth are a non entity. They got caned by Charlton the other day, don't have a training ground, and I look forward to cheering Salisbury on against them at the Ray Mac. For the premier. The ones that matter are Eve-liverpool, liverpool vs united, united vs city, spuds vs Arse, toon vs sunderland and Swans vs Cardiff. For us, its about smashing West Ham, and beating the big boys at SMS this season, the way we were brought up! I was chatting to a stoke fan, and I was explaining that when we play united at home, I expect us to give them a good battering and get a win. And that I was more interested in watching saints play well and beat a big team than do it against a medium/bottom half club. He was far more interested in watching ****e football, scraping wins against cack teams, and couldn't care less about the big boys as they were a league above and not to be competed with. We have a different mentality i think as a fan base. Perhaps because we were plucky little saints for so many years, and perhaps because we did punch above our weight with some great players! But times have changed, and we certainly appear to be going somewhere in the future. Time to carve out some new rivalries! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 An interesting derby, not yet mentioned, is Cherries VS Leeds.... no love lost there, I certainly think Bournemouth will have a score to settle, whether leeds remember why is a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 An interesting derby, not yet mentioned, is Cherries VS Leeds.... no love lost there, I certainly think Bournemouth will have a score to settle, whether leeds remember why is a different story. Does it involve a beach and a bank holiday in the 1980s ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 23 July, 2013 Author Share Posted 23 July, 2013 In the days when this forum was brilliant, it was full of threads like this. Precisely my thoughts CB..... ....and to be fair ...we do miss your contributions and eloquent usage.... can't you start a few topics now and again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 23 July, 2013 Author Share Posted 23 July, 2013 I know you are trying to create some reasonable discussion on here (lets face it, it is a long summer!) But you are being far too harsh on Bristol city.. describing them as a yo yo club between championship and league 1 is on a par with describing Fulham as a yo yo club to the championship. City were in the championship for a similar period of time to Fulham in the premier and almost got promoted... twice! As for rovers. They are my dads boyhood side, and since I am now living 10min down the road I will certainly be going there to scream abuse at the dirty fish scum from down the road. Both those teams are bigger than their respective divisions and only need to get on a role and get their new grounds to be championship pushing for premier. Apologies for that inaccuracy. I didn't check the league tables at the time I wrote that. But...with hindsight and 50 years supporting ... I do think of City as a club with " varying fortunes " and up and down. ....and with many years as a Saints supporter, I do like to get the better of teams like West Ham ...and especially Spurs. However, beating Arsenal tends only to occur in conjuction with Halley's Comet. I was at Highbury when we won there in 1968, but there's not been a lot of points won in the interim . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Bloggs Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 Exeter City versus Plymouth Argyle and Torquay United used to be fun. Certainly no love lost between The Grecians and Argyle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 There really is only one derby for saints. Same as there's only one for Brighton, two for Bristol city (cardiff and rovers) and none for reading or bournemouth. The whole media spin on "derbies" ignores that most clubs only have one game they'd count as that. Anything else is a way to hype a game or sell papers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chestersaint Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 Whist it may be a bit left field; one of the most eagerly awaited derbies around, is back this year. Certainly the biggest derby in non league football without a shadow of a doubt.... Chester v Wrexham. Believe me my friends, these derbies are nuts. If both of these teams were more sizeable then this would be a derby known around the world. The proximity aspect between the city and the town (14 miles) is added the national issue (England v Wales) and also to one of culture and history. Chester has always been the nicer, more affluent whilst Wrexham, the more industrial and down trodden. In recent years, after Chester were punished for financial irregularities by the FA and after 125 years, they died as a club only to be resurrected as a fan owned club starting from the bottom. At this point Wrexham fans called Chester a pub side in a pub league. Three successive promotions and they are back on a level playing field. So a bit of extra spice although not required. I believe the first one is televised too so a good one for the neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 There really is only one derby for saints. Same as there's only one for Brighton, two for Bristol city (cardiff and rovers) and none for reading or bournemouth. The whole media spin on "derbies" ignores that most clubs only have one game they'd count as that. Anything else is a way to hype a game or sell papers. I agree but in the lower leagues there is more build up to the games where it is known clubs are going to bring a substantial travelling support. For example, Torquay's usual gate is about 2.5k but it was over 6k for Bristol Rovers on the final day. Newport will be another all ticket affair next season as they are expected to fill their allocation. You wouldn't describe them as 'derby games' but the atmosphere is different. Also, some clubs have one-way rivalries - Bournemouth with us, Torquay with Exeter, Colchester with Ipswich/Norwich and so on. I agree with Harry Bloggs on Exeter v Plymouth though, that is a mini-Saints v Skates with a history of disorder to match. Middlesbrough V Leeds is another game that isn't a derby as such but has the respective police forces on alert with leave cancelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 Precisely my thoughts CB..... ....and to be fair ...we do miss your contributions and eloquent usage.... can't you start a few topics now and again? I'm going to start one pondering whether or not games next season during rainfall will result in wetter pitches than games on dry days. Thoughts anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 I've told you before CB, stop stamping on people's dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 I'm going to start one pondering whether or not games next season during rainfall will result in wetter pitches than games on dry days. Thoughts anyone? If this happens, I will demand that Cortese steps down. The rainfall buck stops there, no excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 You're fu.ckin nuts mush. You need a new insult, skip. Repetition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasaint Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 When I was a young boy supporting saints, I thought Northampton was our derby rivals!! Hahaha. Made sense to a 10 year old from Singapore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100%Red&White Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 When I was a young boy supporting saints, I thought Northampton was our derby rivals!! Hahaha. Made sense to a 10 year old from Singapore. Well they used to be, was famously known as "The Battle of the Hamptons". Unfortunately, in the same year that the IOW broke away from the mainland the region's landscape was altered dramatically due to vulcanism and plate tectonics (you had to be there) and at the same time a strange little island floated into the Solent and so p*rtsmouth replaced Northampton as our new local rivals. Fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 Well they used to be, was famously known as "The Battle of the Hamptons". Unfortunately, in the same year that the IOW broke away from the mainland the region's landscape was altered dramatically due to vulcanism and plate tectonics (you had to be there) and at the same time a strange little island floated into the Solent and so p*rtsmouth replaced Northampton as our new local rivals. Fact. That's not right. That strange little island known as Portsmouth was formed following thousands of years of Sailors having a last crap overboard before going ashore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 I cant wait for the first Coventry v Northampton set to. That will be a proper derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 You need a new insult, skip. Repetition. Cretin? Is that any better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW5 SAINT Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 Bournemouth v Yeovil must count as a local derby these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 23 July, 2013 Author Share Posted 23 July, 2013 I'm going to start one pondering whether or not games next season during rainfall will result in wetter pitches than games on dry days. Thoughts anyone? ......except that I understand that the SMS pitch is wet every game, as the ground staff water the pitch before kick-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 23 July, 2013 Share Posted 23 July, 2013 (edited) ......except that I understand that the SMS pitch is wet every game, as the ground staff water the pitch before kick-off. But won't be any more wet during rainfall? Gee, you are the clever one. Edited 23 July, 2013 by CB Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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