The Saints Squad as it now stands... where are the gaps?

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

OK, there is a lot of talk about where we need to strengthen, but I thought it might be helpful to look at our squad visually, so I have created a chart showing the squad as it is at present (with the assumption that Billy Sharp will be leaving). I have created a column for first choice players and a column for back-up players. I have also indicated which players are under 21 and do not, therefore, count within the 25 allowed squad players.

 

I have based the squad on a 4-4-2 system, but please don't worry too much about the details here - I recognise that this is a simplification and that we could play a very different formation to 4-4-2 and that Ramirez and Rodriguez (etc....) cannot necessarily be guaranteed to be first choice. I also recognise that putting some players into one position is an over-simplification. Those are details and not the main thrust of this exercise!

 

So, without further ado, here is the current squad as it stands at the moment (unless a player has suddenly signed while I am typing this in!):

 

[table]

[tr]

[th]Position[/th]

[th]First Choice(s)[/th]

[th]Back-up(s)[/th]

[th]Under 21 [/th]

[/tr]

[tr]

[th]GK[/th]

[td]Boruc[/td]

[td]Davis, Gazzaniga[/td]

[td]Gazzaniga[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[th]Left back[/th]

[td]Shaw[/td]

[td]Fox[/td]

[td]Shaw[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[th]Centre Back[/th]

[td]Lovren, Yoshida[/td]

[td]Fonte, Hooiveld[/td]

[td][/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[th]Right Back[/th]

[td]Clyne[/td]

[td]Stephens[/td]

[td]Stephens[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[th]Defensive Mid/Box-to-box[/th]

[td]Schneiderlin, Wanyama[/td]

[td]Cork, JWP, Chambers[/td]

[td]JWP, Chambers[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[th]Offensive Mid[/th]

[td]Lallana, Ramirez[/td]

[td]Puncheon, Guly, Davis, Isgrove[/td]

[td]Isgrove[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[th]Striker[/th]

[td]Lambert, Rodriguez[/td]

[td]Mayuka [/td]

[td][/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

 

My thoughts as I look at this are these:

 

1. We have only got a first team squad of 25 players of which 6 are under 21. We could therefore sign up to 6 more players aged over 21!

2. We have a lot of midfielders but many of these are not quality players for the future and could well drop down the pecking order quite quickly with some more quality additions. I would suggest that Guly will probably be one of those who will see less game time if we do sign another quality midfielder like Banega.

3. We have at first glance very limited options at full-back... except for the fact that Yoshida, Cork, Chambers and potentially Wanyama could all do a job there!

4. We have even more limited options up front - although, again, Lallana, Ramirez, Puncheon, Guly and Isgrove could all be called upon if need be.

 

The obvious (imo) conclusions from all this are:

 

1. We definitely need to be looking to strengthen up front, especially if Billy Sharp does move on.

2. Despite the numbers of midfielders in our squad we do still have scope to bring in a quality player like Banega if we can get him as there are a lot of players who are not upper Premier League quality (if that is what we are aiming to become!)

3. We could do with strengthening further in defence.

 

Anyone else got any thoughts looking at that?

[Matthew Le God]

Right Back - Stephens

 

Defensive Mid/Box-to-box - Chambers

 

- Calum Chambers is a right back for Saints under 21's and England under 19's

- Jack Stephens is a centre back for Saints under 21's

[sentry]

Kinda agree with you, a centreback/right back, an attacking mid (whether he is a winger or central in not bothered), and a striker. 3 positions and if we can do it then I this this transfer window would be great.

[sandwichsaint]

OK, there is a lot of talk about where we need to strengthen, but I thought it might be helpful to look at our squad visually, so I have created a chart showing the squad as it is at present (with the assumption that Billy Sharp will be leaving). I have created a column for first choice players and a column for back-up players. I have also indicated which players are under 21 and do not, therefore, count within the 25 allowed squad players.

 

I have based the squad on a 4-4-2 system, but please don't worry too much about the details here - I recognise that this is a simplification and that we could play a very different formation to 4-4-2 and that Ramirez and Rodriguez (etc....) cannot necessarily be guaranteed to be first choice. I also recognise that putting some players into one position is an over-simplification. Those are details and not the main thrust of this exercise!

 

So, without further ado, here is the current squad as it stands at the moment (unless a player has suddenly signed while I am typing this in!):

 

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TH]Position[/TH]

[TH]First Choice(s)[/TH]

[TH]Back-up(s)[/TH]

[TH]Under 21[/TH]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH]GK[/TH]

[TD]Boruc[/TD]

[TD]Davis, Gazzaniga[/TD]

[TD]Gazzaniga[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH]Left back[/TH]

[TD]Shaw[/TD]

[TD]Fox[/TD]

[TD]Shaw[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH]Centre Back[/TH]

[TD]Lovren, Yoshida[/TD]

[TD]Fonte, Hooiveld[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH]Right Back[/TH]

[TD]Clyne[/TD]

[TD]Stephens[/TD]

[TD]Stephens[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH]Defensive Mid/Box-to-box[/TH]

[TD]Schneiderlin, Wanyama[/TD]

[TD]Cork, JWP, Chambers[/TD]

[TD]JWP, Chambers[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH]Offensive Mid[/TH]

[TD]Lallana, Ramirez[/TD]

[TD]Puncheon, Guly, Davis, Isgrove[/TD]

[TD]Isgrove[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH]Striker[/TH]

[TD]Lambert, Rodriguez[/TD]

[TD]Mayuka [/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

My thoughts as I look at this are these:

 

1. We have only got a first team squad of 25 players of which 6 are under 21. We could therefore sign up to 6 more players aged over 21!

2. We have a lot of midfielders but many of these are not quality players for the future and could well drop down the pecking order quite quickly with some more quality additions. I would suggest that Guly will probably be one of those who will see less game time if we do sign another quality midfielder like Banega.

3. We have at first glance very limited options at full-back... except for the fact that Yoshida, Cork, Chambers and potentially Wanyama could all do a job there!

4. We have even more limited options up front - although, again, Lallana, Ramirez, Puncheon, Guly and Isgrove could all be called upon if need be.

 

The obvious (imo) conclusions from all this are:

 

1. We definitely need to be looking to strengthen up front, especially if Billy Sharp does move on.

2. Despite the numbers of midfielders in our squad we do still have scope to bring in a quality player like Banega if we can get him as there are a lot of players who are not upper Premier League quality (if that is what we are aiming to become!)

3. We could do with strengthening further in defence.

 

Anyone else got any thoughts looking at that?

 

We can field a pretty tasty first eleven.

 

As soon as we get to second choices we struggle.

 

We could play some attractive football and finish solidly mid-table.

 

We need a top line striker and a wide player, and some full back cover, if we are to break top-8.

 

Plus ca change?

[Turkish]

Decent Cover at full back

Still a centre back light, I don't think Fonte and Hoolvield are good enough and I like Yoshida and he's competent, but not a top 10 premier league centre half, good cover though.

Width in midfield/attack

A mobile front man, I hoped Rodriguez might be the man but the fact we're chasing a striker suggests not and it certainly isn't Mayuka

 

Wen everyone in our first XI is fit and in form we have a good side, we are still another 4-5 players short of top 7-8 as a squad though.

[VectisSaint]

Gazza is no longer under 21. He was 21 in January, as far as I know that makes him over 21.

We need to strengthen at RB and up front (would be good to strengthen at LB but clearly Fox is considered to be the backup required).

Is Jack Stephens really considered our RB backup, I know he can play there but seems to have been converted to more of a CB these days.

[110_Persaint]

Looking at that squad, the lack of pace in it is shocking, absolutely shocking. We'd give tortoises a run for their money.

[Matthew Le God]

Gazza is no longer under 21. He was 21 in January, as far as I know that makes him over 21.

 

To count as an under 21 and not have to be included on the 25 man list for 2013/14 you have to be born on or after 1st January 1992.

 

Paulo Gazzaniga was born on 2nd January 1992, so still counts (just! ) as an under 21 player for Saints in 2013/14.

 

Rules for 2012/13... http://www.premierleague.com/content/dam/premierleague/site-content/News/publications/squad-lists/squad-lists-February-2013.pdf

Edited 15 July, 2013 by Matthew Le God

[hutch]

Can we also have it for 4-2-3-1 please. And 4-3-3. And 4-4-1-1. And better do 4-2-4 as well.

 

And can we have the "home-grown" players in a different column please.

 

Ta

[alpine_saint]

Its as much about weakness as "gaps"

 

Another CB, get rid of Fonte or Hooiveld

 

Winger with pace

 

Striker

 

Another GK, make Kelvin GK-Trainer.

[The Kraken]

Its as much about weakness as "gaps"

 

Another CB, get rid of Fonte or Hooiveld

 

Winger with pace

 

Striker

 

Another GK, make Kelvin GK-Trainer.

 

This seems to be the common consensus and one that I'd definitely agree with.

[Dellman]

The thought of seeing Fox in a Premiership match ever again gives me the shivers, we must cover Shaw, with anyone but Fox

[tajjuk]

Its as much about weakness as "gaps"

 

Another CB, get rid of Fonte or Hooiveld

 

Winger with pace

 

Striker

 

Another GK, make Kelvin GK-Trainer.

 

Also have to agree with this but doubt we'll go for a keeper.

 

Also there seem to be literally no links with any wingers, nor have there been for a few weeks.

[The9]

There is a gaping hole up front, since when did Prem sides manage with only 3 strikers (even considering the shift away from 4-4-2 to x-x-1 you still need players to cover different types of opposition and in case of injuries). CB and full back competition is important too, I wonder if Chambers or Stephens can step up ?

[Saint Garrett]

Well we pretty much had two strikers all last season one of which barely played up front....I guess we're just lucky that Rickie rarely gets injured !

 

Still need a striker better than Rickie IMO, a winger/inside forward who is better than Punch/Guly/Lallana IMO.

 

Add another versitile RB/LB, and I think we're there. Don't think we need a keeper, think we've got enough at CB, and certainly got enough at CM.

[DuncanRG]

We shouldn't rule out the possibility of players around the first XI leaving. It may be that after 6 months in charge Pochettino simply doesn't fancy a couple of them and would prefer to work with his own signings.

[MerceSaint28]

I think we definitely need cover at full back...i'm still not comfortable with Fox at left back cover, definitely would of preferred someone like Olsson.

 

Centre back is another weak area, as Hoiveld and Fonte are substandard and Yoshida should only be a squad player.

 

Then we need a pacy winger...Chadli springs to mind and a striker to finish things off

 

I think we need at least 4 more signings

[Saint_clark]

The thought of seeing Fox in a Premiership match ever again gives me the shivers, we must cover Shaw, with anyone but Fox

 

Anyone? Let's get Olivier Bernard back then, shall we.

[Paul75]

we need to find a younger player in the role Lambert does who control the whole front when needed, RL7 does this brilliantly and in certain games has influenced (sp) the team from front to back, doubt this will be easy to find or cheap

[Kingsland Red]

Anyone? Let's get Olivier Bernard back then, shall we.

Olivier, although starting at left back, preferred to wander around central midfield, so does not count. Try Molyneux !

[Lighthouse]

I think we need to find a striker with strength and pace. Lambert has one, JRod has the other but a big powerful monster in the Lukaku mould wouldn't go amiss.

[The Kraken]

Won't be a 'winger with pace'. We don't play that way, not many teams do anymore. Even Bale isn't a winger anymore.

 

Striker with pace would be very useful though, or a faster AMC.

We've already got one of those in Rodriguez.

 

And plenty of teams play with "wingers" despite the fact that the role has changed somewhat in recent years. Walcott, Chamberlain, Valencia, Nani, Moses, Zaha, Lennon, Milner (cr*p); all examples of wide players/"wingers" from the top clubs.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Alan Shearer, Rod Wallace and Michael Svensson please.

[Pastor Patrón]

A top centre back and a striker would be ideal, anything else a bonus, the youngsters can cover full back and we don't play wingers.

[Badger]

Its as much about weakness as "gaps"

 

Another CB, get rid of Fonte or Hooiveld

 

Winger with pace

 

Striker

 

Another GK, make Kelvin GK-Trainer.

 

That sums it up.

 

I'm amazed people are so relaxed about the GK situation, and have a memory loss about how problematic this was for us in the first half of the season.

 

At the moment we have Boruc, and then its probably panic stations all over again.

 

CB - I don't really see Yoshida as better than back up, and feel we should be looking to improve.

 

Winger with pace/striker - no further explanation required.

[West End Saint]

I agree we need a keeper I would like to see a new top class number 1 signed, we need a striker urgently if SRL gets injured we are fooked and we need a pacy tricky winger and are deperate for some cover at full back.

 

5 players short in my book and they need to be quality signings or there is no point if we can bring some top quality to a young promising squad we should be able to push on next season

[captainchris]

I agree we need a keeper I would like to see a new top class number 1 signed, we need a striker urgently if SRL gets injured we are fooked and we need a pacy tricky winger and are deperate for some cover at full back.

 

5 players short in my book and they need to be quality signings or there is no point if we can bring some top quality to a young promising squad we should be able to push on next season

 

Full back hardly get a mention in any rumours of who we are interested in and yet on paper this is where we are most short of credible alternatives. Why Fox is out on tour with the first team is totally beyond me. He must be related to someone at the club!

So though we need strengthening in other areas, for me it's full back where we need to prioritise.

[110_Persaint]

Alan Shearer, Rod Wallace and Michael Svensson please.

[captainchris]

So where is your full back cover? All the other areas have a degree of cover?

[110_Persaint]

So where is your full back cover? All the other areas have a degree of cover?

[DuncanRG]

If I have to read the phrase 'pacy winger' one more time I'm gonna stick a fork in my eye.

[110_Persaint]

If I have to read the phrase 'pacy winger' one more time I'm gonna stick a fork in my eye.

Alright then we badly need a very fast player who's preferred position is on the flanks.

[SNOWY]

Both full back positions, left side centre half, striker, wide player

can't comment on the youngsters as I've not seen them play.

[Charlie Wayman]

It would be a mistake to overlook Isgrove, he looks the real deal in the younger sides and is obviously well in with Pochettino. Expect to see him come on as a sub early in the season and starting next year.

[Brave Sir Robin]

If I have to read the phrase 'pacy winger' one more time I'm gonna stick a fork in my eye.

 

Pacy winger

 

Sorry, couldn't resist!

[Cabrone]

Its as much about weakness as "gaps"

 

Another CB, get rid of Fonte or Hooiveld

 

Winger with pace

 

Striker

 

Another GK, make Kelvin GK-Trainer.

 

I'd agree with that and in order of priority I'd go for

 

1. Pacy Striker - this is where we should be prepared to spend big if needed to get a quality player.

2. Pacy Winger

3. Solid back up GK - if Boruc gets crocked then the thought of Gazzaniga getting a run doesn't fill me with confidence.

4. Quality CH - if we could pick one up at a reasonable price otherwise we do have reasonable cover.

 

I don't share the concern about FBs - I think we have enough cover if needed.

[Singeon Sears]

For me we already have a mid table side, if we want to push into top 8 then in my order of priority

1 centre back - lovren/yosh is a lower mid table central def a top cb would really push us on

2 striker - need someone v.good to compete with / replace / play alongside / help SRL

3 attacking midfielder - punch/lallana operate at mid table prem level currently, could be improved

4 full back cover - need cover both sides by strengthening either one would be ok

5 winger - a decent winger is v.useful to have esp for plan B

So I reckon 5 signings are needed to push top 8 - vastly strengthening the squad

[aintforever]

Most important is:

 

1. A top quality striker (we were VERY lucky last season that Lambert didn't get inured)

2. Cover/competition for Shaw

3. Cover/competition for Clyne

4. Pacy wide/attacking player

 

I'm happy with the CB and GK options but it obviously depends what the club's ambitions are and how far they are willing to go to make it realistic.

[110_Persaint]

For me we already have a mid table side, if we want to push into top 8 then in my order of priority

1 centre back - lovren/yosh is a lower mid table central def a top cb would really push us on

2 striker - need someone v.good to compete with / replace / play alongside / help SRL

3 attacking midfielder - punch/lallana operate at mid table prem level currently, could be improved

4 full back cover - need cover both sides by strengthening either one would be ok

5 winger - a decent winger is v.useful to have esp for plan B

So I reckon 5 signings are needed to push top 8 - vastly strengthening the squad

Dear me, haven't we enough of those already???

[The Kraken]

Dear me, haven't we enough of those already???

 

Dear me, I think the idea is we get ones better than we already have, thus improving the side

[110_Persaint]

Dear me, I think the idea is we get ones better than we already have, thus improving the side

By that logic we might as well replace the whole team! There's always someone better...

[Smirking_Saint]

Decent Cover at full back

Still a centre back light, I don't think Fonte and Hoolvield are good enough and I like Yoshida and he's competent, but not a top 10 premier league centre half, good cover though.

Width in midfield/attack

A mobile front man, I hoped Rodriguez might be the man but the fact we're chasing a striker suggests not and it certainly isn't Mayuka

 

Wen everyone in our first XI is fit and in form we have a good side, we are still another 4-5 players short of top 7-8 as a squad though.

 

This, a top mobile front man would also get the best out of Ramirez and the wide men IMO, its one thing having the ball in that position but when you look up and there is nobody around you then you are in a pickle.

 

More options wide, I still think we need pace, I stated earlier, with the potential signing of Banega that we may look to play more compact with essentially 2 holding midfielders, 3 advanced a striker and the width coming from the fullbacks. Barca and sometimes City play this way but both have other options if required (J Rod is the quickest there currently)

 

CB I agree, but isnt as pressing as the other positions.

 

All fit and firing and with atleast 2 signings (wide & striker) we will be there or there abouts. I know Ill be slated for this but Lambert isnt the man to play up top in a top 10 team, maybe behind a front man.

 

I reckon MP wants a fluid team built around essentially an attacking 4 plus fullbacks and defensive 6

[Smirking_Saint]

Its as much about weakness as "gaps"

 

Another CB, get rid of Fonte or Hooiveld

 

Winger with pace

 

Striker

 

Another GK, make Kelvin GK-Trainer.

 

Agreed more or less, striker vital, winger second, GK/CB if we are really going for it

[The Kraken]

By that logic we might as well replace the whole team! There's always someone better...

I don't think you understand the concept of how best to improve the side by utilising transfers By your methods we'd still have the same team that won promotion from League 1

[Lallana's Left Peg]

I am not so much concerned about the depth as others, as much as I am about the quite diverse styles of the players we've got in the squad.

 

If we were to assume that Pochettino likes to play a certain way regardless of the players at his disposal (which I think is the case from what I can tell) then it is a little concerning to think what the impact a few injuries may have on the team at this moment.

 

For example, I am not overly concerned about Fox being our back-up left-back. If you look up and down the league you'll find that most teams have back-ups at full-back who aren't as good as the first choice. My concern is more that he doesn't appear suited to the way the team wants to play - he has average pace, is easy to be turned, and prone to lots of ball watching which mean his weaknesses can be exposed by being high up the pitch. So it is not so much Fox that is an issue, more that it is Fox being asked to play in a style which really places the emphasis on his weaknesses.

 

So on one hand you may say it is good to have an array of talents in the squad to choose from, but when you are asking them all to play in a certain way there will inevitably be players who benefit and players who struggle a little, plus some players who may feel their strengths and key attributes can't be taken advantage of.

 

Having said that, the biggest gap for me is in the final third anyway. The majority of our forward thinking players have attributes which support a slow, considered build-up and that is the opposite to the vision Pochettino has. Yes when we have possession and build from the back it is nice but the idea is to win the ball high up the pitch and create an opening very quickly through some incisiveness, and that has been dearly lacking at times this season. In fact I think Rodriguez's increased importance to the team has come from him being able to run at players, be direct, and take chances rather than have to slow everything down like he had to at the start of the season. It would be nice to have another forward player like him and I consider that to be our biggest gap at the moment. It doesn't need to be a winger, or a striker, or have to be an attacking midfielder - any of the aforementioned will do, but someone who can carry the ball and 'have a go' would be good to have. The consequence of this is that he attracts attention and opens up space for others as well, so it is far more than the individual benefit of having a player like this.

 

If we're going to win the ball high up the pitch, there is no point slowing it down and letting the opposition get men behind the ball after we do it. We need to have purpose and try some one / two touch stuff to take advantage of it. Hopefully with the depth we now have with Wanyama as well as Cork and Schneiderlin we reduce the threat of the break on us that will occur when we lose the ball high up the pitch as well, but I definitely think we need something extra in the final third.

[Smirking_Saint]

I don't think you understand the concept of how best to improve the side by utilising transfers By your methods we'd still have the same team that won promotion from League 1

 

I dont understand why your even arguing with the idiot

[The Kraken]

I dont understand why your even arguing with the idiot

Nor do I

[110_Persaint]

I dont understand why your even arguing with the idiot

About to complete an MEng in electrical engineering thank you very much.

[Smirking_Saint]

About to complete an MEng in electrical engineering thank you very much.

 

Nice one, I could quiz you if you like ?

 

Theres plenty of well educated idiots out there

[Crab Lungs]

About to complete an MEng in electrical engineering thank you very much.

 

You'll still be a c()nt though*

 

* Not sure if I want to take that back or not, not really into keyboard warrioring... but still, first thing that came to mind.

Edited 16 July, 2013 by Crab Lungs