Ohio Saint Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 ....A club like Southampton.....It's the phrase we always hear from the pundits at the end of any sentence when referring to new signings or our aspirations for the future. It correctly infers that we have a lowly status, and does not really suggest that we will ever be any more than "A club like Southampton" In your opinion, what would we need to win, or how high in the table would we need to go and/or sustain a level of success for that phrase to mean something different. For that phrase to mean a club as good as Southampton? I feel that even if our team realised our wildest dreams and became a top team for a number of years we would always be "A club like Southampton" in the derogatory sense. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 Does that happen a lot in Ohio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 We'd lose the tag very quickly if we finished high up the table for a few years in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 But I thought now we wore plain red we're not seen like that anymore?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
channonwindmill Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 Very difficult. Swansea had a great season, won the League Cup and will be in Europe. It'll be a long time before they're seen as rivals to the top 4 or 5 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 Why does anyone care? Who give a f*ck anyone says about us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 Why does anyone care? Who give a f*ck anyone says about us? Sick heffer in top field needs tendin' sharpish. A've called..I say A've called vetenery while yev bin in Pub drinkin' alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 Why does anyone care? Who give a f*ck anyone says about us? Says the bloke who gets embarrassed if a Saints fan posts something mildly stupid on another teams forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 Chelsea quickly turned round their reputation from an ok upper mid table team to a major player. The thing is though it takes billions to do it. As Chelsea have found, it is very difficult to adopt a sustainability model and still be at the top. We will need more than the Liebherr millions if we are to really change the club and become a top team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascadia Saint Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 Maybe not Chelsea, but Everton might be a better example of a fairly mediocre to **** team that recently has been well thought of... Spurs were horrible for ages too. We just need to be finishing higher on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 Says the bloke who gets embarrassed if a Saints fan posts something mildly stupid on another teams forum. I don't get embarrassed, it's just sad. You need to lighten up a little fella, I know you had to step down as a mod because you couldn't handle it but really it's not worth getting so angry about all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 Maybe not Chelsea, but Everton might be a better example of a fairly mediocre to **** team that recently has been well thought of... Spurs were horrible for ages too. We just need to be finishing higher on a regular basis. You do know Everton are historically one of the biggest clubs in the country? Not and average sh*t team punching above their weight at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 Maybe not Chelsea, but Everton might be a better example of a fairly mediocre to **** team that recently has been well thought of... Spurs were horrible for ages too. We just need to be finishing higher on a regular basis. We could finish above Everton and Spurs every season for a decade and Saints still won't be seen as a bigger club. And rightly so, because we won't be. The sense of arrogance and entitlement sweeping through this forum is an absolute joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey-deacons-left-nut Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 We're a large provincial football club. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 I can feel the buzz.. We are on an upward spiral.. The club is on the rise.. Dizzy heights here we come.. Thankfully we can leave some of the Waaankers on this forum behind:p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 (edited) Interesting that fans from other clubs -the uniteds and liverpools- can see us toppling the likes of everton (granted there's a bound to be some bias among the scousers). Perhaps some on here should take their head out of their ******. Too many are masquerading small-time, parochial grudges against fellow posters as billy big b*****ks realism and objectivity. There's no reason why we couldn't consistently challenge for a top 6-8 place (and higher) if we continue to strengthen and keep a young and increasingly proven squad together for the next few years. Whether it will make us bigger -in a living-off-past-glories-kind-of-way- than Everton or Spurs is neither here or there. Frankly its a distraction. Edited 13 July, 2013 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintchris23 Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 I don't get embarrassed, it's just sad. You need to lighten up a little fella, I know you had to step down as a mod because you couldn't handle it but really it's not worth getting so angry about all the time. He had a valid point Turkish - and you just bit a little too hard. Why the need to get personal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 We could finish above Everton and Spurs every season for a decade and Saints still won't be seen as a bigger club. And rightly so, because we won't be. The sense of arrogance and entitlement sweeping through this forum is an absolute joke.I realise that you would probably not consider us a bigger club than Spurs and Everton, but then you're only one fan, supposedly a supporter of Saints. How other neutral fans would think of us under those circumstances is more pertinent, but I'm impressed with your arrogance that you feel suitably qualified to speak on their behalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 I realise that you would probably not consider us a bigger club than Spurs and Everton, but then you're only one fan, supposedly a supporter of Saints. How other neutral fans would think of us under those circumstances is more pertinent, but I'm impressed with your arrogance that you feel suitably qualified to speak on their behalf. And most sane people in the country would agree with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stug76 Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 If we finish above Spurs and Everton every season for a decade there would be a whole generation of kids that would see Saints as "bigger" (whatever that means) than them. That's how perceptions could change. I don't think that sanity has anything to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 If we finish above Spurs and Everton every season for a decade there would be a whole generation of kids that would see Saints as "bigger" (whatever that means) than them. That's how perceptions could change. I don't think that sanity has anything to do with it. Do you consider Wigan to be a bigger club than Leeds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 Brilliant. It must be days since we had a "bigger club" debate............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 Do you consider Wigan to be a bigger club than Leeds? Analogy breaks down in so many ways its untrue. -Leeds have been relatively successful across a generation e.g. CL league semi-finalists in 2001. -Even if Leeds have fallen on harder times, Wigan have hardly set the world alight. -Attendances at Wigan are significantly lower than at Leeds whereas the difference between us and Everton/Spurs is much smaller. That's also true with a lot of other factors that on paper, give a club kudos. -You're not in a good position to judge or answer the question - you've grown up with a relatively successful Leeds team and the associated folklore whereas younger fans won't have those memories/assumptions. You never know some might view Leeds in the same way a 30 something might view Burnley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 Analogy breaks down in so many ways its untrue. -Leeds have been relatively successful across a generation e.g. CL league semi-finalists in 2001. -Even if Leeds have fallen on harder times, Wigan have hardly set the world alight. -Attendances at Wigan are significantly lower than at Leeds whereas the difference between us and Everton/Spurs is much smaller. That's also true with a lot of other factors that on paper, give a club kudos. -You're not in a good position to judge or answer the question - you've grown up with a relatively successful Leeds team and the associated folklore whereas younger fans won't have those memories/assumptions. You never know some might view Leeds in the same way a 30 something might view Burnley. Not really, the point which was clearly lost on you is that the claim was made that if saints finish above Everton and Spurs for a decade then people would consider us bigger than them. Well Wigan have finished above Leeds for a decade, so surely people must think Wigan are bigger than Them, or doesn't that apply in this case? Nice try sunshine but answer the point that was made not he one you've made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 Not really, the point which was clearly lost on you is that the claim was made that if saints finish above Everton and Spurs for a decade then people would consider us bigger than them. Well Wigan have finished above Leeds for a decade, so surely people must think Wigan are bigger than Them, or doesn't that apply in this case? Nice try sunshine but answer the point that was made not he one you've made up. But if we were to finish above Everton and Spurs, the likelihood is that we would be challenging for the top four or major honours. Nothing concentrates the mind more than success. That's implied in the post. Which is very different from a lowest-common denominator, negative comparison between a perennial PL struggler and a fallen giant that's happened to have done even worse. You're comparing apples and pears - or photocopiers and fax machines if that helps you understand the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 (edited) But if we were to finish above Everton and Spurs, the likelihood is that we would be challenging for the top four or major honours. Nothing concentrates the mind more than success. That's implied in the post. Which is very different from a lowest-common denominator, negative comparison between a perennial PL struggler and a fallen giant that's happened to have done even worse. You're comparing apples and pears - or photocopiers and fax machines if that helps you understand the point. No I'm not. Wigan won the FA cup, so in terms of trophies they've actually been more successful then even Everton and Spurs. So what you're saying is and correct me if I'm wrong, that one team finishing above another doesn't automatically mean they are 'bigger' than that club, there are other factors to take into account, yes? You have alluded to the FACT that most people consider Leeds a bigger club than Wigan despite being at least a division below and Wigan winning major honours in the last decade. Also love your little job dig which I know you like to slip in now and again, you really do believe I'm an ink and paper salesman don't you. Edited 13 July, 2013 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 (edited) No I'm not. Wigan won the FA cup, so in terms of trophies they've actually been more successful then even Everton and Spurs. So what you're saying is and correct me if I'm wrong, that one team finishing above another doesn't automatically mean they are 'bigger' than that club, there are other factors to take into account, yes? You have alluded to the FACT that most people consider Leeds a bigger club than Wigan despite being at least a division below and Wigan winning major honours in the last decade. Also love your little job dig which I know you like to slip in now and again, you really do believe I'm an ink and paper salesman don't you. All I'm saying is that comparing Leeds and Wigan is a poor analogy. You could shovel s**t for a living for all I know. Edited 13 July, 2013 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 (edited) I'm saying comparing Leeds and Wigan is a poor analogy. You could shovel s**t for a living for all I know. Why? Its perfectly valid, its an example of a club finishing above another club, in fact being a league above the other club, winning honours yet still being considered smaller by most of the population. You're saying Its a poor analogy because it shows the claims that simply finishing above Spurs for a few years would automatically make us bigger than them the complete nonsense that they are and doesn't fit with the mega club arrogance sweeping this forum. If anything its a great analogy because it shows how huge the gap can be and still perceptions haven't changed. Yet you keep on making photocopier jibes on a lot of threads. Edited 13 July, 2013 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 It's consumables Shurlock! Consumables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 It's consumables Shurlock! Consumables. FACT. Times have changed and so has the ink and toner business, you need to adapt or be left behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpankBoy Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 I think a lot of it comes down to history also. Ipswitch and Forest have both won European competions, and at times during their history have been massive clubs. But times change. Dont think fans of either club would proclaim themselves to be quite as big as they were in their pomp. How long can past glories keep you as a big club? Agree though that by just finishing above somebody for a while does not make you bigger. If that was the case, for at least 7 or 8 of the last 20 years Chelsea, Arsenal and City would be bigger clubs than United, and that is just not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 (edited) Why? Its perfectly valid, its an example of a club finishing above another club, in fact being a league above the other club, winning honours yet still being considered smaller by most of the population. You're saying Its a poor analogy because it shows the claims that simply finishing above Spurs for a few years would automatically make us bigger than them the complete nonsense that they are and doesn't fit with the mega club arrogance sweeping this forum. Yet you keep on making photocopier jibes on a lot of threads. I'm saying that, in terms of stature, the gap between us and everton/spurs is big but its not as big as that between wigan and leeds, so its not easy to understand why wigan haven't closed the gap but why we could given a sustained run of success. So the analogy isn't exact. Second, actually challenging on a consistent basis -which would be the case if we finished higher than spurs/everton- is what makes a team 'big' in the eyes of others, not hobbling along, doing relatively better than another team -which is what wigan have done vis-a-vis leeds. Again the analogy breaks down. Frankly I have no interest in whether we might be bigger than a team that was sponging off past glories. And lets get there first. Again for all I know, you clean dishes on Brett the cook's submarine. Talk about making the same jibes Edited 13 July, 2013 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stug76 Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 Do you consider Wigan to be a bigger club than Leeds? No, and that's not my point. My son, who's 11, thinks that Wigan are bigger than Leeds. For him Wigan have always been a premiership club, plenty of publicity that goes with that, got to the Cup final. Leeds, however have been in the championship, not much exposure not much to sing about. So, for most kids his age and probably a good few years older, Wigan are the bigger club and, I expect if Wigan had been mixing it at the top of the table for ten years above the likes of Everton and Spurs then that perception that Wigan are bigger than Leeds would be even greater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 No, and that's not my point. My son, who's 11, thinks that Wigan are bigger than Leeds. For him Wigan have always been a premiership club, plenty of publicity that goes with that, got to the Cup final. Leeds, however have been in the championship, not much exposure not much to sing about. So, for most kids his age and probably a good few years older, Wigan are the bigger club and, I expect if Wigan had been mixing it at the top of the table for ten years above the likes of Everton and Spurs then that perception that Wigan are bigger than Leeds would be even greater. So your son must think we are tiny compared to say, Fulham, as they've consistently finished above us for the last decade and been one or two divisions higher for a lot of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 I'm saying that, in terms of stature, the gap between us and everton/spurs is big but its not as big as that between wigan and leeds, so its not easy to understand why wigan haven't closed the gap but why we could given a sustained run of success. So the analogy isn't exact. Second, actually challenging on a consistent basis -which would be the case if we finished higher than spurs/everton- is what makes a team 'big' in the eyes of others, not hobbling along, doing relatively better than another team -which is what wigan have done vis-a-vis leeds. Again the analogy breaks down. Frankly I have no interest in whether we might be bigger than a team that was sponging off past glories. And lets get there first. Again for all I know, you clean dishes on Brett the cook's submarine. Talk about making the same jibes Okay okay, I think I'm getting it. So what you're saying is we need to consistently finish above Everton and Spurs AND challenge for honours AND have a run of sustained success and then a load of 11 year olds that are one year old now, might think we are bigger than them, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 Okay okay, I think I'm getting it. So what you're saying is we need to consistently finish above Everton and Spurs AND challenge for honours AND have a run of sustained success and then a load of 11 year olds that are one year old now, might think we are bigger than them, yes? The other things are likely to follow if we finish above spurs/everton assuming they are there or thereabouts. But never going to happen, is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stug76 Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 So your son must think we are tiny compared to say, Fulham, as they've consistently finished above us for the last decade and been one or two divisions higher for a lot of it. Yeah, I think you're probably right. Maybe not tiny, given that he's been to both stadiums and of course we are now in the same league, but he still might make the judgement that Fulham were a bit bigger than Saints. It's the same for us as adults, we formed opinions of which were big clubs as kids and that stays with you to some extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 There's no such thing as a 'club like Southampton' because this club is unique, whereas there are clubs like Swansea, Fulham, Norwich and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 There must be some room left for an optimistic hope for good old football alchemy. From the late 70s to the early 80s Notts Forest were the best side, and most successful club in British football. When Saints beat them following promotion it felt like a real scalp, akin to beating Chelsea 4-1 now. Forest stayed a good side through the 80s but have faded, and would not be on the 'big club' radar of young fans now. Everton and Spurs on the other hand have always been there or there abouts, but without sustained success (particularly in Europe) - Everton's last major trophy win was 1995, Spurs 1991. So the key would seem to be for the club to enjoy a period of sustained success via a talent catalyst, and then continue this for a number of years. The real cause for optimism is the fact that Cortese is not following any pre-conceived blueprint or 'respect' for history, so there is a chance - had we kept Bale, Walcott, and AOC on the books we would have been building on some foundation!... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 There's no such thing as a 'club like Southampton' because this club is unique, whereas there are clubs like Swansea, Fulham, Norwich and so on. And they're not unique? Is that what you're saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 I don't get embarrassed, it's just sad. You need to lighten up a little fella, I know you had to step down as a mod because you couldn't handle it but really it's not worth getting so angry about all the time. Not angry about it in the slightest, not sure why you'd think that. You just seem to have this weird fixation on how other people conduct themselves. Maybe it is sad, maybe it isn't - but what's it got to do with us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeintheslowlane Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 (edited) Status is an illusion...it matters not a jot. No matter how high your self-importance, 99.999999% of the earth's population will never have heard of you. But carry on if it make you feel better. Edited 13 July, 2013 by lifeintheslowlane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 And they're not unique? Is that what you're saying? They might be, I wouldn't know except that if there are clubs like them then by definition they are not unique. I am saying there is no club like Southampton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 They might be, I wouldn't know except that if there are clubs like them then by definition they are not unique. I am saying there is no club like Southampton. Ah right. That makes perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cellone Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 So most other clubs are bigger with greater history and we should view our selves as a **** ant outfit better suited to league 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 So most other clubs are bigger with greater history and we should view our selves as a **** ant outfit better suited to league 1. Is that truly the only other option you could find? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cellone Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 Is that truly the only other option you could find? I thought the knocking the crap out of your club at every given opportunity is how to be a fan 101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Crab Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 Why does anyone care? Who give a f*ck anyone says about us? Nice try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 I thought the knocking the crap out of your club at every given opportunity is how to be a fan 101 Your apportionment of issues into such extremes of black and white is quite impressive. Simplistic, but nonetheless impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 I thought the knocking the crap out of your club at every given opportunity is how to be a fan 101 Where has anyone "knocked the crap" out of Saints on this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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