Minty Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 Courtesy of MLG's link ( http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11662/8820344/Pochettino-s-plans ) on the Wanyama thread, I thought this article was worthy of further discussion: http://www.optasportspro.com/en/about/optapro-blog/posts/2013/pochettino%E2%80%99s-pressure.aspx While the main thrust of the article is clear, about how Pochettino's pressing game restricted our opponents, I thought it was also useful for highlighting the first part of the season, where it was the complete opposite, and we allowed our opposition way too much time on the ball. This graph tells the story: The bars in red show games where the opposition had more time on the ball than their season average, green is the reverse, and the thick line is the Premier League average for possession. All in all some very interesting and telling stats IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 (edited) All good stuff. That article also has a link to this graph which plots 'opposition possession vs own possession'.... http://public.tableausoftware.com/views/TPP/Sheet1?:embed=y&:display_count=no We seem to be in a league of our own when it comes to denying the opposition possession under Pochettino Edited 12 July, 2013 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 12 July, 2013 Author Share Posted 12 July, 2013 Indeed - now we just need to retain our own possession a bit more, and do more with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 Indeed - now we just need to retain our own possession a bit more, and do more with it... A bit like Barcelona you mean...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 Indeed - now we just need to retain our own possession a bit more, and do more with it... When we lost Ramirez towards the end of the season, and Lallana wasnt firing, it seemed to me Lambert dropped too deep and so we had a pretty toothless front line. Address this with two dynamic signings, one striker and one winger with pace and I honestly think we could reach our best placed finish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 All good stuff. That article also has a link to this graph which plots 'opposition possession vs own possession'.... http://public.tableausoftware.com/views/TPP/Sheet1?:embed=y&:display_count=no We seem to be in a league of our own when it comes to denying the opposition possession under Pochettino I dont understand that graphic. If the opposition are only getting 73% of the league average possession and were only getting 88% - whose got the ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 Great thread, Minty. Love looking at stats like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayrivers Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 I feel we are so close to being a really good team! Heading in the right direction and one or two more signings this window and think we are going to be looking at a great season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 Interesting that our ball retention hasn't improved hugely under Pochettino. Hopefully that's the idea behind Wanyama's arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 I dont understand that graphic. If the opposition are only getting 73% of the league average possession and were only getting 88% - whose got the ball? It isn't a % of who has the ball, it is a % of the league average for time with/without possession. The closer to the bottom right hand corner of the graph the better (although there are more factors to football than just this such as what you do with the possession you have and don't let the opposition do in the possession they have). Southampton (under Pochettino) being the lowest on the graph shows they are the best in the Premier League at reducing the average time the opposition have the ball due to tackling/intercepting. If they were to improve keeping the ball for longer they'd move towards the right of the graph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Martini Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 I dont understand that graphic. If the opposition are only getting 73% of the league average possession and were only getting 88% - whose got the ball? Its how long every spell of possession lasted. The graph shows that we manage to restrict our opponents to very short spells of possession but that we don't manage that long either which means that possession changes teams a lot in our matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 Excellent thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 Interesting that our ball retention hasn't improved hugely under Pochettino. Hopefully that's the idea behind Wanyama's arrival. Yes, but it´s also a result of us winning the ball higher up on the pitch and we have in most games more shots than opposition, and after a shot the other team often get the possession of the ball back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 Yes, but it´s also a result of us winning the ball higher up on the pitch and we have in most games more shots than opposition, and after a shot the other team often get the possession of the ball back. I don't think we take enough shots to skew the retention statistics that much, if you think about how often possession changes in a 90 minute match. That's the other thing to improve on anyway, for a team who take so many shots we didn't put nearly enough of them in towards the end of the season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 It isn't a % of who has the ball, it is a % of the league average for time with/without possession. The closer to the bottom right hand corner of the graph the better (although there are more factors to football than just this such as what you do with the possession you have and don't let the opposition do in the possession they have). Southampton (under Pochettino) being the lowest on the graph shows they are the best in the Premier League at reducing the average time the opposition have the ball due to tackling/intercepting. If they were to improve keeping the ball for longer they'd move towards the right of the graph. Difficult to integrate possessive football in the premier league, and certainly in the way we play. Hussle possession and then get forward in order to profit from possession being won from a team high up the pitch. It would actually be worse for us I think to hold onto the ball for too long a la Barca or Arsenal as we dont have players who can be that incisive or fluid in the front line (atm) I do agree however that its possibly a direction in which Poch wishes to progress. Personally I think it puts us into a strong position, so long as we can deal with a long ball game (wanyama in front of an adequate defence ? Push the line up ?) then we should be very tight. I think Boruc would potentially be a good signing for your dream team ! What we desperately need is wide pace and a dynamic front man who we can utilise to move the ball into attack quickly once possession has been stolen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 Ward-Prowse is always on the front foot when we regain possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 All good stuff. That article also has a link to this graph which plots 'opposition possession vs own possession'.... http://public.tableausoftware.com/views/TPP/Sheet1?:embed=y&:display_count=no We seem to be in a league of our own when it comes to denying the opposition possession under Pochettino Simple thought based on the above graph. Score a couple more goals and where would we be ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 Simple thought based on the above graph. Score a couple more goals and where would we be ? Exactlu, which is why I imagine dynamism in the forward line is on the forfront of Poch's mind ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 12 July, 2013 Author Share Posted 12 July, 2013 Exactlu, which is why I imagine dynamism in the forward line is on the forfront of Poch's mind ? Agreed - and probably why we're being linked with some of the players we're being linked with. Who actually arrives is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 All good stuff. That article also has a link to this graph which plots 'opposition possession vs own possession'.... http://public.tableausoftware.com/views/TPP/Sheet1?:embed=y&:display_count=no We seem to be in a league of our own when it comes to denying the opposition possession under Pochettino Where are Man Utd and Sunderland? Off the graph somewhere? I presume that's United between Swansea and Arsenal perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 Where are Man Utd and Sunderland? Off the graph somewhere? I presume that's United between Swansea and Arsenal perhaps? Yeah, think so. Sunderland are next to QPR. Spurs also missing but they are snuggled behind Liverpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky morris Posted 12 July, 2013 Share Posted 12 July, 2013 But games like WBA at home showed the weakness in the system (also poor defending). Attackers with pace can get behind the back 4 & hurt us as we are so far up the park. What I would like is a plan B. Not criticising MP or the style, but being flexible would help IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 (edited) Worth noting that the Villa home match where we pummelled them 4-1 is up there with any of Pochettino's stats, and the red wave at the start is (again) due to the opposition being some of the best sides in the division, not necessarily any tactical failings. We also benefitted from playing Man U, Chelsea and City when Pochettino was still new and people didn't know his style (as best evidenced second half at Old Trafford). Only three of the first 11 (mostly difficult) matches and 15 of the last 16 (theoretically easier), anyone would think there was some kind of correlation with the standard of opposition as well... Edited 13 July, 2013 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 The flipside of this of course is that we're actually not very good with the ball, I seem to recall whoscored had us as an outlier and there was a lot of "what if" regarding how many shots we had and how few goals. There's got to be some cause and effect there from playing your main striker mostly outside the box as well as pressing and trying to quickly capitalise on transitions - it could also just mean that we have a lot of pinball instances from breaking up play where no-one has control for a few moments and possession switches back and forth until there's space and time to utilise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaford Saint Posted 13 July, 2013 Share Posted 13 July, 2013 I am in a minority here in saying that I was not convinced by our high pressing game as I felt it left us exposed when a move broke down. Anyone else think the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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