Southampton City- help or hinder?

[melmacian_saint]

Ok so a debate which I think is quite interesting.

 

We all know everything about the "ambitious plans" our owners and managers have for the club, and with more or less controversy/ease the club has been progressing.

 

However, it's when I look around SMS that I worry there is a ceiling that we won't be able to break: the potential/demographics of our city.

 

On the "help" plate, I think that our city does in fact have a world rep thanks to our docks and their importance particularly on sea-related tourism into London. We are also important base for one of Britain's lesiure sailing hotspots in the Solent, and of course an important business centre for the South of England. We also form an important economic pole in the Metro area we share with Portsmouth (though sporting-wise this may actually hinder and can't therefore be counted for size measurment purposes). We are a surprisingly well connected city (port, good rail/motorway links and a sufficient although monopolized and expansion-limited airport) and of course we are peaceful enough for players to come and focus on their football without suffering from the bright-lights syndrome. Commuting is also easy from arguably some of the nicest areas in Great Britain.

 

However, I think there is a lot that will hinder attempts of entering a european top 25. If you look at the regular qualifiers from Europe's top leagues, you'll see that the most regular ones come from cities which are either capitals (no point in comparing so we'll leave them out of this) or cities of important tourist/leisure attraction or even some of the most important areas of a country in terms of economics. Our city is at best of an average size, lacks any real tourist attractions and is quite frankly not a fantastic place to live or even vist. Yes you can walk around the tudor houses in the old town and have lunch in the Ocean Village/Oxford Street, maybe even walk up to the Common but unless you've got a Saints game to watch in the afternoon you might as well leave for another place. Coming here for a shopping break is also ridiculous as if you've got some money it's just rational to go somewhere nicer. We also lack some any urban life/activity as most of the city is soulless (also due to the considerable size of our temporary population), and poor planning has seen wrong developments being chucked into potential centres of town life (see poorly maintained council flats next to the Old Town area). Although we've come out better than some of the de-industrialised towns, the city overall is not fairing well economically particularly in tough times. As for players, there's also a bad side to a place that is not only quiet, but also unattractive: there isn't much to do after a couple of months here, and the city itself is very restricted in terms of places you can go and enjoy yourself with friends and/or family. The type of players we seem to be looking to attract also care about the kind of place they are moving into, and I can't see the city being a helping hand in their integration or appeal to sign.

 

Do share your views!

[Colinjb]

I would counter by looking at cities like Montpellier, Udine, Leverkusen, A Coruna and Villarreal.

 

On the face of it not exactly inspiring places. Under the right management and direction though they have been able to compete in european competition and for domestic honours.

 

While the City of Southampton is not exactly in the middle of a purple patch, the surrounding area is still one of the most affluent, peaceful and beautiful in the whole nation.

[DuncanRG]

Dortmund's big, but not the nicest.

 

EDIT: Of course, Hampshire generally is a wealthy place. A lot of players live in Winchester and the villages, and if they want city hustle and bustle it's not that far from London.

[Rasiak-9-]

Dortmund's big, but not the nicest.

 

Big industrial ****holes tend to be an ideal birthplace for starting and maintaining a successful football team, Southampton has two out of three I guess

[red&white56]

Just goolged the top 30 to see what would come up and found the following list:

 

We have to be better than 30 => 25 top get on the list. Doable, yes - but we still have some way to get there imo!

 

1/. FC Barcelona

2/. Real Madrid

3/. Manchester United

4/. Bayern München

5/. Chelsea FC

6/. Milan

7/. Arsenal

8/. FC Porto

9/. Inter

10/.Liverpool

11/.Valencia CF

12/.Benfica

13/.Juventus

14/.Olympique Lyonnais

15/.Atletico de Madrid

16/.PSV Eindhoven

17/.Shakhtar Donetsk

18/.Borussia Dortmund

19/.FC Schalke 04

20/.Roma

21/.Ajax

22/.Manchester City

23/.Sevilla

25/.Dynamo Kiev

25/.Sporting Club Portugal

26/.CSKA Moskva

27/.Zenit St.Petersburg

28/.Tottenham Hotspur FC

29/.Celtic

30/.Olympique de Marseille

[Scoobysaint]

I did consider this when I read a comment about Damiao (allegedly) sending over somebody to checkout Southampton and the surrounding area. Not sure Southampton as a city has the ability to draw in the major players. Yes there are a few good restaurants, some nice boats, half decent shopping, the New Forest but nothing that could compare with the bright lights of London or Manchester.

[angelman]

If you have a family, I think that the New Forest is a pretty good place to bring them up in. We might take it a little too much for granted. For those who don't have families, maybe living north of Soton would be better. London is only 75 miles away so it's not in the back of beyond either. How many Man U/C players live in Manchester? Chelsea players live in Cobham or some such Surrey town. While Soton isn't the nicest of towns, I am not sure it would put me off, especially as it is by no means the nastiest either.

[pap]

Hinder, probably.

 

I've lived outside the bubble for years. The only specific thing I hear about Southampton is in reference to the relatively high number of Eastern Europeans living there or the links with the Titanic. Otherwise, Southampton is just another place, not particularly famous or infamous for much. Nothing wrong in that, but compared to some of the places that have got a lively reputation, it's going to come second best for some footballers.

 

Nightlife is crap, and generally, it's a city that feels like a town. All relative to my experience, of course.

[Colinjb]

If you have a family, I think that the New Forest is a pretty good place to bring them up in. We might take it a little too much for granted. For those who don't have families, maybe living north of Soton would be better. London is only 75 miles away so it's not in the back of beyond either. How many Man U/C players live in Manchester? Chelsea players live in Cobham or some such Surrey town. While Soton isn't the nicest of towns, I am not sure it would put me off, especially as it is by no means the nastiest either.

 

Exactly.

 

Manchester United and City players generally live in or around Alderley Edge or Wilmslow. There is nothing to stop our players living in Winchester or Romsey.

[Foxy]

Let's be honest guys. For foreigners the only city in this country that's a draw is London. The rest are seen as provincial and, in many cases, drizzly dumps. Manchester, for example.

[pap]

If you have a family, I think that the New Forest is a pretty good place to bring them up in. We might take it a little too much for granted. For those who don't have families, maybe living north of Soton would be better. London is only 75 miles away so it's not in the back of beyond either. How many Man U/C players live in Manchester? Chelsea players live in Cobham or some such Surrey town. While Soton isn't the nicest of towns, I am not sure it would put me off, especially as it is by no means the nastiest either.

 

This reminds me of arriving in Derby train station around 2002. A placard outside the station gave directions to all the chain shops. Half of them were in Nottingham.

 

On this sort of basis, we could recommend Pompey as a place for a Southampton fan to live. Only 22 miles away, after all!

[JRM]

Let's be honest guys. For foreigners the only city in this country that's a draw is London. The rest are seen as provincial and, in many cases, drizzly dumps. Manchester, for example.

 

it's an interesting debate and I think southampton can compete , it would just take the player to use bit of imagination to get the most out of the area. living in north hampshire / surrey they're under an hour away , can benefit from living in the London lifestyle and play for saints. very few of the players who play for big London clubs actually live in London. Likewise with manchester.

 

look at how many former players / managers still own property in the area.

 

I do think southampton as a city suffers from chronic short sightedness by the council when it comes to planning and development and gunwharf shows what we could have done with a waterfront , hopefully if saints can sustain a good few successful years in the top flight the money and improved image it brings with it will rub off on the city.

 

I've been to football all over Europe and plenty of successful clubs in unremarkable places. getting big support makes a big difference though like Dortmund so would be good to take advantage of other local clubs downfall.

[lloydie]

I've been to football all over Europe and plenty of successful clubs in unremarkable places. getting big support makes a big difference though like Dortmund so would be good to take advantage of other local clubs downfall.

Geez, if only a club within a 30 mile radius had such issues to take advantage of for future genrations of saints fans...

[Sour Mash]

We've got a Nandos. What more do we need?

[JRM]

We've got a Nandos. What more do we need?

 

and we've got a casino which a number of our imported players have enjoyed frequenting over the years.

[CitySaint]

Well written post and point, I think the area has a lot to offer. Middlesbrough attracted some world stars in the mid 90's with an area that would best be described as 'indifferent'.

[Colinjb]

Well written post and point, I think the area has a lot to offer. Middlesbrough attracted some world stars in the mid 90's with an area that would best be described as 'indifferent'.

 

In polite company, yes.

[pap]

Well written post and point, I think the area has a lot to offer. Middlesbrough attracted some world stars in the mid 90's with an area that would best be described as 'indifferent'.

 

Yeah, but Boro's appeal wasn't felt over the long term.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/emerson-and-wife-may-be-back-soon-1313427.html

[Patrick Bateman]

Jesus Christ.

 

What a ridiculous thread. Look, some parts of Southampton are disgusting. Some parts of every city are disgusting. But Southampton probably has more than it's fair share of affluent areas - you could include the New Forest too.

 

Stupid thread. Let me guess, you're a typical Twitter wind up merchant?

[Colinjb]

Jesus Christ.

 

What a ridiculous thread. Look, some parts of Southampton are disgusting. Some parts of every city are disgusting. But Southampton probably has more than it's fair share of affluent areas - you could include the New Forest too.

 

Stupid thread. Let me guess, you're a typical Twitter wind up merchant?

 

I think it's actually quite an interesting discussion. One of the hurdles the club will face as it aims higher will be convincing high profile players with no knowledge of England that a move to this part of the country would be a good idea.

[Sour Mash]

I think it's actually quite an interesting discussion. One of the hurdles the club will face as it aims higher will be convincing high profile players with no knowledge of England that a move to this part of the country would be a good idea.

Agreed, decent thread. I think proximity to London can't do us too much harm & , what is it, about an hour to heathrow.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Surprised nobody has mentioned Blackburn. Admittedly they didn't sustain success for that long, and it was a while ago, but still.

[Colinjb]

Agreed, decent thread. I think proximity to London can't do us too much harm & , what is it, about an hour to heathrow.

 

Yep, not too far.

 

It's not just about the city itself either. The surrounding area is key. The New Forest, Hampshire countryside.

 

As someone who grew up in Hampshire and then moved away.... I cannot wait to get back. I firmly believe that Hampshire is all things considered the best part of England. I hope that is something that those within the club can also passionately communicate to future signings.

[Patrick Bateman]

Agreed, decent thread. I think proximity to London can't do us too much harm & , what is it, about an hour to heathrow.

 

Behave.

[Pugwash]

I agree wholeheartedly with the point about the shortsightedness of the council. They've generally balls'ed up or ignored every bit of the city's heritage over the last 30-40 years. Titanic and the age of the liners, aviation and the spitfire, the medieval town, the big sailing events, etc.

 

On that last point, how many Saints' players own or have owned boats (apart from Claus)? The Solent is one the sailing/boating 'capitals' of the world. Players like their flash cars, so I'm sure they'd like floating gin palaces or powerboats. Surely it's not considered too risky, is it?

[JackanorySFC]

Good thread IMO.

 

As a proud Sotonian I'm the first to admit we have plenty of weak points. The Luftwaffe decimated our City centre and we've never recovered, it's spread out, great in some places (Oxford st), horrible in others (Leisure World). Like it or not we are a Labour voting Port City dependent on the docks, and have been for 2 century's. Our city centre housing was flattened by Hitler and the council during slum clearance and families like my Dads were moved from Chapel/ Northam to be Flower Roads and other estates. Personally I'm proud of this, we aren't a posh middle class bohemian tourist attraction, we work to make our City work.

 

However, to a footballer on mega dough, we have über affluent areas within a stones throw of Redbridge Towers to the West, Thornhill Estate to the East and the Flower Roads to the north. As SM says you can get a seriously nice gaff in Surrey an hour from London, the same from Staplewood and the same again from Heathrow/ Gatwick.

 

We are lucky to live where we do, seems trivial to bring it up but the weather helps, anyone unfortunate enough to do business in the NW (I've spent huge amounts of time in Manc/ Leeds/ Liv will tell you how happy they are to see the sun break through he clouds on the way home on the A34!)

[Prince Jazzbo]

This is like blaming Haringey Council if spurs cant hold on to Bale.

[Deano6]

I agree with the OP. The city is the one thing holding us back. The final step to be competitive on the world stage is to move us out of Southampton. We need to be somewhere more vibrant, cosmopolitan and capable of attracting the world's megastars. Like Birmingham.

[lordswoodsaints]

We should be able to attract the top polish players in the world but we're not so Shirley and portswood need to up their game.

[Chicken With A Banjo]

Its not the city itself which is a hindrance, it's the location of the training ground. It's just that bit too far from London to make it a reasonable commute for the players. If the training ground were in Basingstoke for instance, I think the club would be a much more attractive proposition. Upgrading the facilities rather than relocating them has been Cortese's biggest mistake in my opinion.

[Barry Sanchez]

As a person who has lived away for 15 years when I go into Southampton its as if nothing has changed, sure a few bars have opened and restaurants but its still a **** night out compared to the major Cities or even Cities the same size, what we need on the tourist side is something crazy built, a talking point some ****ing balls as its boring, even before the war Southampton was hardly an architects jewell and it never will be, its a small City that should carve out an identity like Brighton has or Oxford.

The docks has brought money in but where has it gone? Not into the City thats for sure.

 

The villages are nice around the City but its not the City is it, I come from a village outside the City and its great but its no better than other nice villages in the Country, why would it be?

Edited 6 July, 2013 by Barry Sanchez

[Barry Sanchez]

Good thread IMO.

 

As a proud Sotonian I'm the first to admit we have plenty of weak points. The Luftwaffe decimated our City centre and we've never recovered, it's spread out, great in some places (Oxford st), horrible in others (Leisure World). Like it or not we are a Labour voting Port City dependent on the docks, and have been for 2 century's. Our city centre housing was flattened by Hitler and the council during slum clearance and families like my Dads were moved from Chapel/ Northam to be Flower Roads and other estates. Personally I'm proud of this, we aren't a posh middle class bohemian tourist attraction, we work to make our City work.

 

However, to a footballer on mega dough, we have über affluent areas within a stones throw of Redbridge Towers to the West, Thornhill Estate to the East and the Flower Roads to the north. As SM says you can get a seriously nice gaff in Surrey an hour from London, the same from Staplewood and the same again from Heathrow/ Gatwick.

 

We are lucky to live where we do, seems trivial to bring it up but the weather helps, anyone unfortunate enough to do business in the NW (I've spent huge amounts of time in Manc/ Leeds/ Liv will tell you how happy they are to see the sun break through he clouds on the way home on the A34!)

 

You do know we are not a tourist attraction, why the **** would anyone visit Southampton from overseas for culture and tourism? We need a talking point, bold and brash, we have nothing thats others dont have better.

I agree with the weather though ha ha, reinvention is whats needed.

Edited 6 July, 2013 by Barry Sanchez

[Barry Sanchez]

If you have a family, I think that the New Forest is a pretty good place to bring them up in. We might take it a little too much for granted. For those who don't have families, maybe living north of Soton would be better. London is only 75 miles away so it's not in the back of beyond either. How many Man U/C players live in Manchester? Chelsea players live in Cobham or some such Surrey town. While Soton isn't the nicest of towns, I am not sure it would put me off, especially as it is by no means the nastiest either.

 

 

 

United/City players live in Cheshire, Alderley Edge and the surrounding area, Liverpool and Everton players live in Formby, the Albert Docks, Cressington and Woolton.

[Rebel]

At least it's got a Brazilian restaurant now!

[Whitey Grandad]

At least it's got a Brazilian restaurant now!

 

Do you get a shave with your meal?

[This Charming Man]

I'm in China at the moment and the vast majority of travellers I have met from all over the world have never even heard of Southampton (that obviously applies for city and football team). I just tell people I'm from London now as bored of trying to explain where Southampton is.

[alpine_saint]

Good thread IMO.

 

As a proud Sotonian I'm the first to admit we have plenty of weak points. The Luftwaffe decimated our City centre and we've never recovered, it's spread out, great in some places (Oxford st), horrible in others (Leisure World). Like it or not we are a Labour voting Port City dependent on the docks, and have been for 2 century's. Our city centre housing was flattened by Hitler and the council during slum clearance and families like my Dads were moved from Chapel/ Northam to be Flower Roads and other estates. Personally I'm proud of this, we aren't a posh middle class bohemian tourist attraction, we work to make our City work.

 

However, to a footballer on mega dough, we have über affluent areas within a stones throw of Redbridge Towers to the West, Thornhill Estate to the East and the Flower Roads to the north. As SM says you can get a seriously nice gaff in Surrey an hour from London, the same from Staplewood and the same again from Heathrow/ Gatwick.

 

We are lucky to live where we do, seems trivial to bring it up but the weather helps, anyone unfortunate enough to do business in the NW (I've spent huge amounts of time in Manc/ Leeds/ Liv will tell you how happy they are to see the sun break through he clouds on the way home on the A34!)

 

Great post.

 

I am proud to hail from Southampton, and, as I have said before, I view the area between Soton and Weymouth as the most beautiful area on the planet.

 

I am proud of the history of the city (Spitfire, being the first area of the UK to come under gaze of the Luftwaffe, the human spirit and sacrifice of the Titanic crew, the worlds greatest football team, Benny Hill)

 

As for the council, its swings and roundabouts. Without them, we wouldnt have a stadium due to Lowe trying to be a clever arse. On the other hand, every central Soton proposed development scheme turns into a party political farce.

[yorkiesaint]

I guess footballers want money and trophies, and they care what others think of them. We might be able to offer money, but nobody outside of the UK has heard of southampton and we don't win any (meaningful) trophies. The best we can argue is that we are a shop window to the premier league big boys. Although southampton has little going for it as a city i don't think this would stop people coming if we were the champions league winners.