The Met Police and Madeline Mccann

[CB Fry]

Where have you written your theory of events? All you have done is pick holes in what the current investigation thinks without suggesting a more credible scenario. It certainly appears that the reason you do not do this is because either you don't have a credible alternative theory or you know that any theory you come up with would have a number of holes and would be easy to dismiss.

 

Asking Pap to put forward anything resembling an explanation = Bullying.

 

Welcome to Papworld. Where I appear to be 15 years older than I actually am.

[pap]

Where have you written your theory of events? All you have done is pick holes in what the current investigation thinks without suggesting a more credible scenario. It certainly appears that the reason you do not do this is because either you don't have a credible alternative theory or you know that any theory you come up with would have a number of holes and would be easy to dismiss.

 

When did I ever commit to meeting the demands of a full and complete explanation?

 

I didn't; it has been demanded by people who don't want it anyway. I've fielded this ball before, hypo. It doesn't lead anywhere constructive, and is an unreasonable request aimed at getting me to provide ammunition for bitter old f*cks who need me to say something in order to contribute something themselves. Not going to give these boys the oxygen. Soz.

[pap]

Asking Pap to put forward anything resembling an explanation = Bullying.

 

Welcome to Papworld. Where I appear to be 15 years older than I actually am.

 

Lordy. I'm really sorry CB Fry. Didn't realise it had got you so young.

[aintforever]

When did I ever commit to meeting the demands of a full and complete explanation?

 

I didn't; it has been demanded by people who don't want it anyway. I've fielded this ball before, hypo. It doesn't lead anywhere constructive, and is an unreasonable request aimed at getting me to provide ammunition for bitter old f*cks who need me to say something in order to contribute something themselves. Not going to give these boys the oxygen. Soz.

 

So you are certain the McCanns did it but don't have the slightest clue how they could have carried it out!

[CB Fry]

Lordy. I'm really sorry CB Fry. Didn't realise it had got you so young.

 

So you reckon it was the acid bath what the McCann done then? Stands to reason, don't it?

[pap]

So you are certain the McCanns did it but don't have the slightest clue how they could have carried it out!

 

I don't think I've ever expressed certainty on this issue. By all means, read my posts and tell me if I'm bullsh*tting.

[pap]

So you reckon it was the acid bath what the McCann done then? Stands to reason, don't it?

 

Does it? That's nice.

[aintforever]

I don't think I've ever expressed certainty on this issue. By all means, read my posts and tell me if I'm bullsh*tting.

 

Mate, you would be sh!t at Cleudo.

 

"It was Colonel Mustard, dunno where but with what but he definitely did it"

[pap]

Mate, you would be sh!t at Cleudo.

 

"It was Colonel Mustard, dunno where but with what but he definitely did it"

 

I could probably spell "clue" tho'.

[aintforever]

I could probably spell "clue" tho'.

 

Bravo, you can spot a typo, what a clever boy.

 

Shame you can't come up with one single timeline of events that supports your theory. Until you do it's pointless you posting your ramblings on here.

[pap]

Bravo, you can spot a typo, what a clever boy.

 

Shame you can't come up with one single timeline of events that supports your theory. Until you do it's pointless you posting your ramblings on here.

 

I just wonder at the "timeline" that led to your typo. Was it merely fat fingers, or was it the excitement of having a non-Verbal originated "killer quip" ( description only applies in your head ) for the first time in ages?

 

Whatever, when dealing out the insults, best to get your language spot on. Otherwise you look a bit "cleu"-less.

[JackFrost]

Can you imagine pap doing jury service?

[pap]

Can you imagine pap doing jury service?

 

No need. Already did it.

[aintforever]

I just wonder at the "timeline" that led to your typo. Was it merely fat fingers, or was it the excitement of having a non-Verbal originated "killer quip" ( description only applies in your head ) for the first time in ages?

 

Whatever, when dealing out the insults, best to get your language spot on. Otherwise you look a bit "cleu"-less.

 

Resorting to insults and changing the subject again. Go on, just tell us how they could have done it...

 

...if you can

[CB Fry]

I just wonder at the "timeline" that led to your typo. Was it merely fat fingers, or was it the excitement of having a non-Verbal originated "killer quip" ( description only applies in your head ) for the first time in ages?

 

Whatever, when dealing out the insults, best to get your language spot on. Otherwise you look a bit "cleu"-less.

 

What a comeback. Well done.

[Viking Warrior]

Pap

 

No need. Already did it.

 

Is that the big case that went to a retrial with a different jury.

 

The other members of you particular Jury are still be treated for PTSD allegedly;)

[pap]

Pap

 

No need. Already did it.

 

Is that the big case that went to a retrial with a different jury.

 

The other members of you particular Jury are still be treated for PTSD allegedly;)

 

Er no. I have no idea whether my fellow jury members have PTSD. They did elect me as foreman, though (although I immediately refused it).

[egg]

Just so I can follow what's going on here, are all the Pap knockers saying that they support completely the abduction theory and that aside of the obvious error in leaving the kids that the McCann's have done nothing wrong?

[hypochondriac]

Just so I can follow what's going on here, are all the Pap knockers saying that they support completely the abduction theory and that aside of the obvious error in leaving the kids that the McCann's have done nothing wrong?

 

I can only speak for myself here but I'm saying that I trust those vastly more qualified than myself (the police) to come up with the most likely explanation. At the moment this is seemingly the abduction theory. I think it would be interesting to continue the discussion if pap gave an alternative scenario that was more likely but he refuses to which to me suggests that he doesn't have one.

[Bearsy]

Can you guys really think of no scenarions without Pap's input? You should watch more TV! I can think of loads of scenarions! Here is one just off the top of my head!

 

THE MADDIE NEVER LEFT ENGLAND + TAPAS CANABALISM SCENARION

 

Maddie never left England yo! They killed her at home + buried in back garden. Then they made a Maddie doll from sausages and took that on holiday to Portugal. No-one is noticing this deception. Then they ate the sausage Maddie at Tapas bar, thus disposing of all evidences.

[aintforever]

Just so I can follow what's going on here, are all the Pap knockers saying that they support completely the abduction theory and that aside of the obvious error in leaving the kids that the McCann's have done nothing wrong?

 

I think abduction is the most likely theory but am happy to entertain the idea that the McCanns did it if someone can explain how they managed to make the body vanish in the window of opportunity they had.

 

Pap had a pop at the Met for persisting with the abduction theory yet is unable to come up with an plausible alternative. The Met have obviously looked into and didn't think the McCanns could do it either - hence they seem pretty certain it's an abduction.

[OldNick]

Can you guys really think of no scenarions without Pap's input? You should watch more TV! I can think of loads of scenarions! Here is one just off the top of my head!

 

THE MADDIE NEVER LEFT ENGLAND + TAPAS CANABALISM SCENARION

 

Maddie never left England yo! They killed her at home + buried in back garden. Then they made a Maddie doll from sausages and took that on holiday to Portugal. No-one is noticing this deception. Then they ate the sausage Maddie at Tapas bar, thus disposing of all evidences.

i have just copied this and sent it to the Met. They had not thought of this and have sent a digger to the MCanns to dig up the patio. I will of course share the reward with you.

[Bearsy]

cheers i hope this helps the search for maddie in some small way. I do also have a theory bout the twins cos I have always found them v.suspicious. What self-respecting child-catcher passes over a matching set of twins to take a single girl? Twins fetch up to 3 or 4 times the normal rate in the underground child market. I personally do not believe in the existence of these alleged "twins".

[Viking Warrior]

Pap

 

You cleary have no sense of humoure re the other jurors who had PTSD with you alongside them

 

I can see it now who shall we elect as foreman , good old pap he has a lot to say

 

It wuld have been iteresting if aintforever, verbal and yourself were all on the panel at the same time !!!!

[pap]

Pap

 

You cleary have no sense of humoure re the other jurors who had PTSD with you alongside them

 

I can see it now who shall we elect as foreman , good old pap he has a lot to say

 

It wuld have been iteresting if aintforever, verbal and yourself were all on the panel at the same time !!!!

 

Cheers, VW.

 

Funnily enough, I ducked out of the foreman responsibility because I was conscious of my strong opinions, and really didn't want that to be a leading factor. There were sensible people in their fifties and sixties who were a much better fit.

[ottery st mary]

As you all know......but to remind you..

 

I am a definite non believer in the abduction allegation/investigation..

 

Entitled to my opinion etc

 

As I have said all along.....would love to have been proved wrong...but I do not believe Maddie is alive.

 

Very interested to see where Met Police go with their current enquiries.....

[Bearsy]

I would love to be on Jury, but I never seem to get invited. Is it cos I don't vote? Do you need to be register to be Jury?

 

I would love to send some motherfuckers down yo! Soon as they takes stand I would be black cap. I would be excellent Jury, I would guarantee 100% convictions.

[egg]

I think abduction is the most likely theory but am happy to entertain the idea that the McCanns did it if someone can explain how they managed to make the body vanish in the window of opportunity they had.

 

Pap had a pop at the Met for persisting with the abduction theory yet is unable to come up with an plausible alternative. The Met have obviously looked into and didn't think the McCanns could do it either - hence they seem pretty certain it's an abduction.

 

Thanks for clarifying.

 

Personally, I find the McCann's conduct (aside of leaving the kids to go out) odd at best. The refusal to answer salient questions doesn't help and I'm concious of the dna and blood evidence.

 

The creation of a media circus and pushing for an investigation is at odds with being guilty. On the other hand, the action against mumsnet and other sites to stop free discussion seems odd.

 

I also agree that the timeline is odd, but I'd like to know what the police now know about independant evidence of the last alive sightings of Maddie.

 

To be honest, I've not seen aenough to support either theory. Maybe Bearsy is right and the cadever dogs picked up the scent of sausages.

[pap]

I would love to be on Jury, but I never seem to get invited. Is it cos I don't vote? Do you need to be register to be Jury?

 

I would love to send some motherfuckers down yo! Soon as they takes stand I would be black cap. I would be excellent Jury, I would guarantee 100% convictions.

 

Think it's done by electoral register. I'm self-employed so it was a bit of a pain in the arse. You don't have to do it again for years, so made the decision to get it out of the way.

[Bearsy]

Think it's done by electoral register. I'm self-employed so it was a bit of a pain in the arse. You don't have to do it again for years, so made the decision to get it out of the way.

 

oh cheers i don't have an erection register. If anyone is on jury send me pm + I will advise bout how long sentence to give the criminals.

[CB Fry]

Just so I can follow what's going on here, are all the Pap knockers saying that they support completely the abduction theory and that aside of the obvious error in leaving the kids that the McCann's have done nothing wrong?

 

Correct. All other routes seem pretty implausible in the time available.

 

That, or Pap's acid bath theory that I am warming to. Just a case of the right chemical mix that I think they could have achieved with standard household bleach and that. And remember these are medical people.

[pap]

Correct. All other routes seem pretty implausible in the time available.

 

That, or Pap's acid bath theory that I am warming to. Just a case of the right chemical mix that I think they could have achieved with standard household bleach and that. And remember these are medical people.

 

Just an example of the fiction you'll create to invent a case.

 

The acid bath is your invention, kid.

[CB Fry]

Just an example of the fiction you'll create to invent a case.

 

The acid bath is your invention, kid.

 

I endorse it, but let's be clear. I like your theory this time. Come on, I'm building bridges here.

[pap]

I endorse it, but let's be clear. I like your theory this time. Come on, I'm building bridges here.

 

Can you go back to being Verbal's unpaid and unloved poodle?

 

Let's see another "principled exit" from a subject because it's all too much.

 

Besides, there are better ways to build bridges than flippant accounts of how a young girl might have disappeared. Who exactly do you think you're amusing? (Apart from yourself, of course).

[CB Fry]

Can you go back to being Verbal's unpaid and unloved poodle?

 

Let's see another "principled exit" from a subject because it's all too much.

 

Besides, there are better ways to build bridges than flippant accounts of how a young girl might have disappeared. Who exactly do you think you're amusing? (Apart from yourself, of course).

 

You on the side of a victim all of a sudden? Hilarious, as you don't extend that sentiment to, say, Lee Rigby, his family, or the innocent bystanders who tried to help him. eff em, all actors paid by the secret service. Or the victims of the Boston bomb. Eff em. Actors ain't they?

 

And no exit from me. Just staying right here whlie you bottle it as usual. Your usual sh it scared run for the hills whenever someone says the dread question...so, what did happen?

 

You're fleeing for the exit. As usual.

Edited 21 October, 2013 by CB Fry

[pap]

You on the side of a victim all of a sudden? Hilarious, as you don't extend that sentiment to, say, Lee Rigby, his family, or the innocent bystanders who tried to help him. eff em, all actors paid by the secret service. Or the victims of the Boston bomb. Eff em. Actors ain't they?

 

And no exit from me. Just staying right here whlie you bottle it as usual. Your usual sh it scared run for the hills whenever someone says the dread question...so, what did happen?

 

You're fleeing for the exit. As usual.

 

In all the discussions we've had about various conspiracies, I don't think I've ever made a joke of those involved. The only thing I've ever done is point out discrepancies between what we're being told and the evidence collected at the time, whether that's video, photographic or in this case, official observations of the PJ. Pretty much the only person "cracking wise" about these events or the people involved is yourself.

 

I may be way off the mark ( see the great Turkish surname cock-up for more details ), but I'm guessing you're childless. The old man used to have a pop at me for taking the p!ss out of people, reminding me that they were all someone's son or daughter. Didn't get it at the time, but it's something that retroactively kicked in when my own came along.

 

That you can sit there and spew bile about acid baths just to get to me (fk sake) tells me you've a total lack of empathy. I only really felt that way when I was a selfish, childless c*nt.

 

I honestly don't think you give a f**k one way or the other about any of these incidents.

[buctootim]

In all the discussions we've had about various conspiracies, I don't think I've ever made a joke of those involved. The only thing I've ever done is point out discrepancies between what we're being told and the evidence collected at the time, whether that's video, photographic or in this case, official observations of the PJ. Pretty much the only person "cracking wise" about these events or the people involved is yourself.

 

I may be way off the mark ( see the great Turkish surname cock-up for more details ), but I'm guessing you're childless. The old man used to have a pop at me for taking the p!ss out of people, reminding me that they were all someone's son or daughter. Didn't get it at the time, but it's something that retroactively kicked in when my own came along.

 

That you can sit there and spew bile about acid baths just to get to me (fk sake) tells me you've a total lack of empathy. I only really felt that way when I was a selfish, childless c*nt.

 

I honestly don't think you give a f**k one way or the other about any of these incidents.

 

Its way too late to try and synthesise empathy to get you out from under the contempt you are held in. Jibes at people with legs freshly blown off, including a nine year old boy blown up and killed with his mother and sister crippled. Stick to crass conspiracies, its your thing - sincerity and empathy - you cant carry it off, too late and too fake.

[pap]

Its way too late to try and synthesise empathy to get you out from under the contempt you are held in. Jibes at people with legs freshly blown off, including a nine year old boy blown up and killed with his mother and sister crippled. Stick to crass conspiracies, its your thing - sincerity and empathy - you cant carry it off, too late and too fake.

 

More remote diagnosis, Tim?

 

I have to say, it's amusing being called fake by someone who hides behind anonymity, baffling to be called insincere when my sincerity over my tax affairs has cost me left-wing brownie points, and downright hypocritical to be accused of lacking empathy from yourself.

 

You're a coward, Tim. You don't have the courage to put your identity behind your words, so any contempt you may hold me in is meaningless. What the f**k do I care about what an anonymous coward thinks?

[OldNick]

pap, CB Fry informs me he has 2 children and so is not childless. This forum does get very serious at times and the bile that gets out on can be pretty distasteful.thankfully we have Bearsy to take the tension down a tad. Read his posts and you will see some pertinent points, that nobody has commented on.the most telling that I have not seen answered, 'if it was abduction why were the twins left? They would have been very easy to dope to get them away.

I am not sure what to believe,both sides have compelling arguments

[CB Fry]

In all the discussions we've had about various conspiracies, I don't think I've ever made a joke of those involved. The only thing I've ever done is point out discrepancies between what we're being told and the evidence collected at the time, whether that's video, photographic or in this case, official observations of the PJ. Pretty much the only person "cracking wise" about these events or the people involved is yourself.

 

I may be way off the mark ( see the great Turkish surname cock-up for more details ), but I'm guessing you're childless. The old man used to have a pop at me for taking the p!ss out of people, reminding me that they were all someone's son or daughter. Didn't get it at the time, but it's something that retroactively kicked in when my own came along.

 

That you can sit there and spew bile about acid baths just to get to me (fk sake) tells me you've a total lack of empathy. I only really felt that way when I was a selfish, childless c*nt.

 

I honestly don't think you give a f**k one way or the other about any of these incidents.

 

Two kids, not that it's any of your business.

 

Lee Rigby was someone's son and someone's father. Didn't stop your hateful slander. His children weren't spared by you. His widow was someone's daughter. Boston bomb victims? All someone's children too. Did that stop you slurring them, mocking them?

 

What about the "where's the blood Bazza" routine? What jolly japes you had as you marvelled at the pixelated hands of a psycho. Shared that with your kids, did you Daddy?

 

An internet freak leaping on tragedy and death to gleefully parrot half formed conspiro-effwittery. Shrieking "liar" at the maimed, the killed, the broken.

 

Don't lecture me on empathy you gutless shell of a human.

 

Your old man must be so proud.

[Batman]

pap has and always been a weirdo

 

its impossible to debate with him as he finds it utterly impossible to consider another point of view

just look at the recent examples regarding massive tragedies

[aintforever]

Thanks for clarifying.

 

Personally, I find the McCann's conduct (aside of leaving the kids to go out) odd at best. The refusal to answer salient questions doesn't help and I'm concious of the dna and blood evidence.

 

The creation of a media circus and pushing for an investigation is at odds with being guilty. On the other hand, the action against mumsnet and other sites to stop free discussion seems odd.

 

I also agree that the timeline is odd, but I'd like to know what the police now know about independant evidence of the last alive sightings of Maddie.

 

To be honest, I've not seen aenough to support either theory. Maybe Bearsy is right and the cadever dogs picked up the scent of sausages.

 

I agree the parents have acted strangely on occasions but they do seem to be a bit of an odd couple. I wouldn't read too much into her not answering the questions, she had already gave an account of what happened the day after Madeline went missing. The interview where she was treated as a suspect was months afterwards and if Madeline was abducted wouldn't have done anything to help find her, the questions were only aimed at pinning it on her - I expect that's why she clammed up. To be honest if I was in her situation and the local plod had made a complete hash of finding my kid, then 3 months later tried to pin it on me I would probably tell them to f*ck off.

 

The forensic evidence appears sketchy, it would be interesting to hear from an expert about the probabilities involved. The fact that the Met don't seem to be taking it seriously suggests it could be pretty meaningless unless there is something more concrete to go with it. From what I've read dog finding cadaver scent could mean a whole number of things, it doesn't even prove a body was in the apartment let alone Madeline's. Maybe Madaline's DNA would bound to be found in a car used by her parents for a period of time, their clothes must have her DNA all over them. Only a police expert can analyse the forensic evidence, not some nutjob on the web with access to some of the facts.

 

My guess is that it was some lone weirdo who lives within an couple of hours drive max. Was noncing around and somehow noticed the kid was in there without her parents (could have heard her cries or watched a parent go in check then leave) and took the opportunity. The apartment was horribly exposed.

Edited 21 October, 2013 by aintforever

[pap]

Two kids, not that it's any of your business.

 

Lee Rigby was someone's son and someone's father. Didn't stop your hateful slander. His children weren't spared by you. His widow was someone's daughter. Boston bomb victims? All someone's children too. Did that stop you slurring them, mocking them?

 

What about the "where's the blood Bazza" routine? What jolly japes you had as you marvelled at the pixelated hands of a psycho. Shared that with your kids, did you Daddy?

 

An internet freak leaping on tragedy and death to gleefully parrot half formed conspiro-effwittery. Shrieking "liar" at the maimed, the killed, the broken.

 

Don't lecture me on empathy you gutless shell of a human.

 

Your old man must be so proud.

 

As must yours, CB Fry.

 

I'd argue that making jokes about toddlers in acid baths is possibly a step above suggesting that a false flag operation happened in Woolwich. My one mistake on that thread was to actually acquiesce to the demand for a theory. A lot of lessons learned on that thread and a couple of others, including the decision to discuss these matters someplace else.

 

So time's spun on. I've had nowt to say about anything on here apart from this since you and your caring band of chums departed the Boston Bombing thread out of "decency". I've kept my gob shut, mush. It's you and your ad-hoc band of bullying brothers who keep bringing the subject up.

 

Look at you now. Not only will you happily bring up these events you found so "upsetting", but you're more than happy to bring them up time and time again. The latest is a new nadir for you, CB Fry. Devising methods of child body disposal to prove a point you don't believe in, and don't care about anyway.

 

As with Timothy's contribution, I'd be paying a lot more attention to "gutless shell of a human" ( which is good in a kind of drill sergeant way ) if you weren't such a blouse-wearing anonymous coward yourself. It is difficult for me to take anonymous attackers seriously. Immediately my back goes up, so I start picturing you as big fat c*nts who post angry all the time because you hate yourselves. It's a stereotype, I know.

[pap]

pap has and always been a weirdo

 

its impossible to debate with him as he finds it utterly impossible to consider another point of view

just look at the recent examples regarding massive tragedies

 

Cheers for the support, Jamie.

 

(You'll work it out later)

[saint si]

My one mistake on that thread was to actually acquiesce to the demand for a theory.

 

OK, so you are happy to pick at the seams of the widely accepted explanations, but don't think it's a good idea to postulate alternate theories of your own to explain the evidence.

 

You're a frikking genius.

[hypochondriac]

OK, so you are happy to pick at the seams of the widely accepted explanations, but don't think it's a good idea to postulate alternate theories of your own to explain the evidence.

 

You're a frikking genius.

 

Tbh that is the main thing that is getting backs up at the moment. By suggesting that the widely accepted theory is wrong and that by extension the qualified policemen are talking cobblers and not doing their job properly yet not providing any details of an alternative scenario, it could be that pap's primary reason for posting is to get a reaction from others. I'm sure that isn't the case though and he is honestly trying to open the eyes of the sheep who will believe anything they are told by anyone in a position of power.

Edited 21 October, 2013 by hypochondriac

[CB Fry]

As must yours, CB Fry.

 

I'd argue that making jokes about toddlers in acid baths is possibly a step above suggesting that a false flag operation happened in Woolwich. My one mistake on that thread was to actually acquiesce to the demand for a theory. A lot of lessons learned on that thread and a couple of others, including the decision to discuss these matters someplace else.

 

So time's spun on. I've had nowt to say about anything on here apart from this since you and your caring band of chums departed the Boston Bombing thread out of "decency". I've kept my gob shut, mush. It's you and your ad-hoc band of bullying brothers who keep bringing the subject up.

 

Look at you now. Not only will you happily bring up these events you found so "upsetting", but you're more than happy to bring them up time and time again. The latest is a new nadir for you, CB Fry. Devising methods of child body disposal to prove a point you don't believe in, and don't care about anyway.

 

As with Timothy's contribution, I'd be paying a lot more attention to "gutless shell of a human" ( which is good in a kind of drill sergeant way ) if you weren't such a blouse-wearing anonymous coward yourself. It is difficult for me to take anonymous attackers seriously. Immediately my back goes up, so I start picturing you as big fat c*nts who post angry all the time because you hate yourselves. It's a stereotype, I know.

 

Right you are.

 

I will bring that stuff up time and again. You portray yourself as somebody chock-full of all that empathy yer Daddy taught you and I will point out out what you've said before to challenge it.

 

Conspiro nutcases not usually hot on empathy and you're straight out of the same mould.

 

And not suggesting any alternative theory kinda destroys your case, dunnit?

 

I know your "I don't believe nuffing no copper/government says, me" is at the heart of your conspiro-worldview and it genuinely makes you feel like you're jolly clever but its all a bit one-note with nothing whatsoever to back it up.

 

So yeah, maybe stick to the kid's slopes of the conspiro websites where I have no doubt you are some kind of deity. Cause of all that empathy what you've got, eh?

Edited 22 October, 2013 by CB Fry

[Bearsy]

including the decision to discuss these matters someplace else.

 

i am interest in theories + lack empathy! where do you go to discuss bout these things? I would like to come along sometime if that is ok

[pap]

OK, so you are happy to pick at the seams of the widely accepted explanations, but don't think it's a good idea to postulate alternate theories of your own to explain the evidence.

 

You're a frikking genius.

 

Mate, don't know if you saw the thread in question, but it wasn't pretty. I provided a theory, but there were two major problems. First, it was never really wanted in the first place. The same people who are demanding it here were demanding it then. They weren't interested in the first place. The other issue was the general audience and the timing. If there is ever a good time to discuss these matters, it isn't in the immediate aftermath of events, especially if those events have happened in your own country and had the sort of public outcry that Woolwich did.

 

It was a mistake on those two levels, one I don't intend to make again.

 

 

 

Tbh that is the main thing that is getting backs up at the moment. By suggesting that the widely accepted theory is wrong and that by extension the qualified policemen are talking cobblers and not doing their job properly yet not providing any details of an alternative scenario, it could be that pap's primary reason for posting is to get a reaction from others. I'm sure that isn't the case though and he is honestly trying to open the eyes of the sheep who will believe anything they are told by anyone in a position of power.

 

See above, hypo.

 

On your other points, I'm not posting to get a reaction from others, but there is an element of truth to your last point. People are willing to accept that things have happened on a very low burden of proof, almost to the point where if it's on the telly, it's real. I find that to be a rather dangerous default position.

 

There is mercifully some evidence of that changing; the Syria incident is a good example of both the problem and the recognition that it exists. During the first week, Cameron and co did their level best to get us into a conflict with no evidence whatsoever, save what they'd collected from disputed intelligence sources. In a less cynical time, I think they might have gotten away with it. They almost did this time. It was only really Miliband staring back at the electorate, correctly assessing the public mood and voting accordingly which kept us out of that conflict.

 

Now I'm not trying to pretend that public sentiment is indicative of people suddenly deciding to not trust their governments. On different levels, people have not trusted their governments for years, and it doesn't even matter if it's your preferred party in power. Who'd have pegged Labour for facilitators of a right-wing hawkish US administration? Certainly not me. Anyone who buys Private Eye knows that that each edition is chock-full with low level conspiracies internal to our country.

 

I suspect the big differentiator between my position and that of many others is what we believe governments, or at least elements of them, to be capable of. Even restricting ourselves to the public record, they are capable of a lot.

[pap]

Right you are.

 

I will bring that stuff up time and again. You portray yourself as somebody chock-full of all that empathy yer Daddy taught you and I will point out out what you've said before to challenge it.

 

Conspiro nutcases not usually hot on empathy and you're straight out of the same mould.

 

And not suggesting any alternative theory kinda destroys your case, dunnit?

 

I know your "I don't believe nuffing no copper/government says, me" is at the heart of your conspiro-worldview and it genuinely makes you feel like you're jolly clever but its all a bit one-note with nothing whatsoever to back it up.

 

So yeah, maybe stick to the kid's slopes of the conspiro websites where I have no doubt you are some kind of deity. Cause of all that empathy what you've got, eh?

 

Taken with all the gravitas traditionally accorded to an anonymous coward. (That's zero, btw).