Fox ?

[Saints boy in Leeds]

Not sure if this has been covered already but it seems to me that MP is keeping hold of Fox as back up for Shaw.

 

Can't see why he would as we are wanting to push on, the thought of him coming on and playing again next seasson when Shaw is knackered is not a pleasant one !

 

Surely he will strengthen and tell Fox he can find another club ?

[Mowgli]

Fox is reasonable back up for Shaw. Different type of player but decent back up. Same with Guly - good squad player. Won't stop people on here finding any excuse to knock them. That's football.

[JonnyLove]

Clyne can play left back, Lovren can play left back, Forren can play left back. I would be a little more concerned about the right back slot, but then we have youngsters as well and how else are they going to get into the team if we buy lots of players to block them.

[LVSaint]

Think Fox will stay. Tricky to find a better player than fox who will sign when they know they're only going to be backup LB.

[alpine_saint]

Maybe its simply lower down MPs transfer priority list.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

This thread is going to attract the Fox haters like flies to ****....

[BotleySaint]

I've always thought Fox would make a better left winger. Maybe he has a future there? With all these central defenders we now have, you wonder if we might be switching to a 5-3-2 formation. Maybe Fox can play that role out-wide. His main weakness is in defending really, but he has other positive attributes. Just in my opinion of course.

[Saint_clark]

Think Fox will stay. Tricky to find a better player than fox who will sign when they know they're only going to be backup LB.

 

Exactly. Fox is average at this level - not terrible, as some would tell you. It'd be difficult enough convincing a better than average left back to come and play for Southampton as first choice, let alone as back up to an 18 year old.

[Saint_clark]

I've always thought Fox would make a better left winger. Maybe he has a future there? With all these central defenders we now have, you wonder if we might be switching to a 5-3-2 formation. Maybe Fox can play that role out-wide. His main weakness is in defending really, but he has other positive attributes. Just in my opinion of course.

 

Or maybe not all of them are in our plans.

[sfc1976]

I doubt anyone 'hates' Fox himself. It's not his fault, he probably can't believe he's playing at this level either. But surely anyone watching a game objectively can see that his positioning is so poor that whoever is playing centre back is also then drawn out of position to cover him, which means we are seriously exposed. This happens time and time again. You can see that opposition managers, if they are not already aware of his shortcomings at the start of a game, actually change tactics to exploit the situation. Agree getting quality to sit on the bench is tough, so hope MP has seen him enough to iron out these issues as much as possible and he might just scrape through the odd game.

[Saints boy in Leeds]

Exactly. Fox is average at this level - not terrible, as some would tell you. It'd be difficult enough convincing a better than average left back to come and play for Southampton as first choice, let alone as back up to an 18 year old.

 

I think Fox for his service but that's in the past, I'm not sure i would agree with you that he is average at PL level. I'm not a hater of Fox as he did ok for us in the lower leagues but his positioning is very poor and gets himself and others into all sorts of trouble at PL level.

 

All I'm saying is that if we are serious about pushing on we don't want to be bringing on Fox at LB is all. Teams are spending and getting better so this season will be tougher than last IMO.

 

If he's not part of our long term plans its better for him to be finding a new club.

[BotleySaint]

Or maybe not all of them are in our plans.

Also possible. But we've not shifted anyone away yet .. we have Fonte, Lovran, Hooiveld, Yoshida and Forren. I think they could all fit in the team under the right circumstances. Guess we'll find out pre-season with regards to the formation. Probably stick to the traditional 4-4-2 :-)

[austsaint]

I remember the debate about Fox and Harding......many argued Harding was the better LB; I could never see it; DF's positioning is loose to say the least, but his first touch is good and his dead ball left foot and crossing aren't too shabby either - almost certain to stay as cover.

[chestersaint]

With all due respect to many of the previous posters on here but Fox needs to be got rid of as soon as possible. He is not an average Premier player at all. An average prem player would be the likes of Stephen Warnock (Villa), Tony Hibbert (Everton) or Billy Jones (West Brom), all of which are steady, competent and reliable. Fox has none of these attributes and if any on here seriously think our team is not weakened massively when he is involved; you are deluded IMHO. The best single word to sum up Danny Fox is LIABILITY. He has his merits, he's keen and he can deliver a great cross and perhaps he could make a decent left winger but at his age, I am sure he is aware of his best position and that is left back. Unfortunately his best is not premiership standard and let's face it, we were aware he looked dodgy sometimes in the Championship. When he is on the pitch, all my faith in the team evaporates and the other players must feel it too. In terms of replacements, there must be some NPC players that would come and relish the challenge against Shaw for an increase in wages, it shouldn't be that hard to find someone better than Fox.

[DuncanRG]

I honestly couldn't guess what our plans are, but I'm always uneasy when he's playing.

[Saint_clark]

With all due respect to many of the previous posters on here but Fox needs to be got rid of as soon as possible. He is not an average Premier player at all. An average prem player would be the likes of Stephen Warnock (Villa), Tony Hibbert (Everton) or Billy Jones (West Brom), all of which are steady, competent and reliable.

 

Why don't you ask the fans of those clubs how reliable those players are? I know for a fact that Hibbert is seen as a donkey by a lot of Everton fans.

[JN9]

Why don't you ask the fans of those clubs how reliable those players are? I know for a fact that Hibbert is seen as a donkey by a lot of Everton fans.

 

And Warnock is certainly no fan favourite at Villa... I'd take Fox over Warnock any day of the week.

[Whitey Grandad]

He's always worth a goal or two.

 

 

... to the opposition.

[Joensuu]

We all agree that Fox isn't up to the role. The problem I have is finding anyone who would be willing to replace him, who is better. There is no way that Warnock or Hibbert would come to saints to play second fiddle to Shaw. I'm sure they'd consider the move if Shaw were the backup player. Our options for replacing Fox are really quite limited. Either we try to find a slightly better player who is willing to give up a guaranteed starting role elsewhere, or we would need to find someone of equal or greater ability than Shaw.

 

I can't see the first option happening. Simply put, Fox isn't actually as bad as people make out, he's better than half the left backs in the Championship. There are a very small group of 'slightly' better players, who might just about consider moving up a division - but I personally can't see that many of them will want to exchange their current roles for a position on our bench. Even those who would are unlikely to be much of an improvement.

 

The second option is equally risky. Bring in someone to challenge Shaw is likely to expedite his wish to move the Chelsea. The one thing we currently have to offer Shaw is a first team position - threaten to remove that from him, and his agent will quickly be trying to stir up interest in the capital.

 

So what choice do we have here. The only type of player who I can see possibly meeting our requirements is someone towards the end of their career, who's played at the top level. Someone who probably couldn't hold down a starting role in the Prem, but is looking for one last opportunity to shine. Personally, I'd have taken a closer look at Bridge last month. He might well be capable of playing better than Fox; he might well be interested in the pay; he might also wish to return to us; but we can't offer him a starting role, and if he's after game time we might not have been in the running. I can't think of many other players who would be a better fit.

 

As such, unless we are willing to risk loosing Shaw by splashing £5m+ on an international left back, I think we're going to have to get used to Fox playing backup for another season.

[DuncanRG]

The second option is equally risky. Bring in someone to challenge Shaw is likely to expedite his wish to move the Chelsea.

 

Honestly, if he had any such wishes he'd be going now while he still can, rather than tying himself into a long-term contract here.

[Saints boy in Leeds]

With all due respect to many of the previous posters on here but Fox needs to be got rid of as soon as possible. He is not an average Premier player at all. An average prem player would be the likes of Stephen Warnock (Villa), Tony Hibbert (Everton) or Billy Jones (West Brom), all of which are steady, competent and reliable. Fox has none of these attributes and if any on here seriously think our team is not weakened massively when he is involved; you are deluded IMHO. The best single word to sum up Danny Fox is LIABILITY. He has his merits, he's keen and he can deliver a great cross and perhaps he could make a decent left winger but at his age, I am sure he is aware of his best position and that is left back. Unfortunately his best is not premiership standard and let's face it, we were aware he looked dodgy sometimes in the Championship. When he is on the pitch, all my faith in the team evaporates and the other players must feel it too. In terms of replacements, there must be some NPC players that would come and relish the challenge against Shaw for an increase in wages, it shouldn't be that hard to find someone better than Fox.

 

Agree

[Special K]

I've always thought Fox would make a better left winger. Maybe he has a future there? With all these central defenders we now have, you wonder if we might be switching to a 5-3-2 formation. Maybe Fox can play that role out-wide. His main weakness is in defending really, but he has other positive attributes. Just in my opinion of course.

 

Completely agree. I posted some time ago about him making a decent midfielder - a view that was derided by many of course! - as he seems he could be adaptable enough (with the right coaching) to be able to play various roles within the team. His crossing is excellent and he never drops his head, even with the abuse he gets from the crowd. And for the boo boys, it's better if Fox stays as they have their scapegoat for another season instead of having to find another one.

[StDunko]

I doubt anyone 'hates' Fox himself. It's not his fault, he probably can't believe he's playing at this level either. But surely anyone watching a game objectively can see that his positioning is so poor that whoever is playing centre back is also then drawn out of position to cover him, which means we are seriously exposed. This happens time and time again. You can see that opposition managers, if they are not already aware of his shortcomings at the start of a game, actually change tactics to exploit the situation. Agree getting quality to sit on the bench is tough, so hope MP has seen him enough to iron out these issues as much as possible and he might just scrape through the odd game.

 

This

[Charlie Wayman]

I doubt anyone 'hates' Fox himself. It's not his fault, he probably can't believe he's playing at this level either. But surely anyone watching a game objectively can see that his positioning is so poor that whoever is playing centre back is also then drawn out of position to cover him, which means we are seriously exposed. This happens time and time again. You can see that opposition managers, if they are not already aware of his shortcomings at the start of a game, actually change tactics to exploit the situation. Agree getting quality to sit on the bench is tough, so hope MP has seen him enough to iron out these issues as much as possible and he might just scrape through the odd game.

 

What are you talking about? Fox HAS played at this level before. He's a very valuable player for most managers as he fits into a team ethic and doesn't moan and groan about being on the bench; when on rare occasions he is called onto the pitch he always gives 150%. A consummate professional who just gets on with his job. Who doesn't make mistakes?

[Saint Charlie]

What are you talking about? Fox HAS played at this level before. He's a very valuable player for most managers as he fits into a team ethic and doesn't moan and groan about being on the bench; when on rare occasions he is called onto the pitch he always gives 150%. A consummate professional who just gets on with his job. Who doesn't make mistakes?

 

Superb professional vs WBA when Shaw was injured...

[Orange Peels]

Not a fox hater but he's foocking awful.

[Charlie Wayman]

With all due respect to many of the previous posters on here but Fox needs to be got rid of as soon as possible. He is not an average Premier player at all. An average prem player would be the likes of Stephen Warnock (Villa), Tony Hibbert (Everton) or Billy Jones (West Brom), all of which are steady, competent and reliable. Fox has none of these attributes and if any on here seriously think our team is not weakened massively when he is involved; you are deluded IMHO. The best single word to sum up Danny Fox is LIABILITY. He has his merits, he's keen and he can deliver a great cross and perhaps he could make a decent left winger but at his age, I am sure he is aware of his best position and that is left back. Unfortunately his best is not premiership standard and let's face it, we were aware he looked dodgy sometimes in the Championship. When he is on the pitch, all my faith in the team evaporates and the other players must feel it too. In terms of replacements, there must be some NPC players that would come and relish the challenge against Shaw for an increase in wages, it shouldn't be that hard to find someone better than Fox.

 

This is just donkey crap from beginning to end. You should have gone to Specsavers! Do you ever watch the Saints?

[scotty]

We all agree that Fox isn't up to the role. The problem I have is finding anyone who would be willing to replace him, who is better. There is no way that Warnock or Hibbert would come to saints to play second fiddle to Shaw. I'm sure they'd consider the move if Shaw were the backup player. Our options for replacing Fox are really quite limited. Either we try to find a slightly better player who is willing to give up a guaranteed starting role elsewhere, or we would need to find someone of equal or greater ability than Shaw.

 

I can't see the first option happening. Simply put, Fox isn't actually as bad as people make out, he's better than half the left backs in the Championship. There are a very small group of 'slightly' better players, who might just about consider moving up a division - but I personally can't see that many of them will want to exchange their current roles for a position on our bench. Even those who would are unlikely to be much of an improvement.

 

The second option is equally risky. Bring in someone to challenge Shaw is likely to expedite his wish to move the Chelsea. The one thing we currently have to offer Shaw is a first team position - threaten to remove that from him, and his agent will quickly be trying to stir up interest in the capital.

 

So what choice do we have here. The only type of player who I can see possibly meeting our requirements is someone towards the end of their career, who's played at the top level. Someone who probably couldn't hold down a starting role in the Prem, but is looking for one last opportunity to shine. Personally, I'd have taken a closer look at Bridge last month. He might well be capable of playing better than Fox; he might well be interested in the pay; he might also wish to return to us; but we can't offer him a starting role, and if he's after game time we might not have been in the running. I can't think of many other players who would be a better fit.

 

As such, unless we are willing to risk losing Shaw by splashing £5m+ on an international left back, I think we're going to have to get used to Fox playing backup for another season.

 

Someone's talking sense, get him banned pronto.

[Fan The Flames]

Fax isn't as bad as some make out.

[Torres]

And Warnock is certainly no fan favourite at Villa... I'd take Fox over Warnock any day of the week.

 

So much so that he joined Championship Leeds last January.

[Colinjb]

We all agree that Fox isn't up to the role. The problem I have is finding anyone who would be willing to replace him, who is better. There is no way that Warnock or Hibbert would come to saints to play second fiddle to Shaw. I'm sure they'd consider the move if Shaw were the backup player. Our options for replacing Fox are really quite limited. Either we try to find a slightly better player who is willing to give up a guaranteed starting role elsewhere, or we would need to find someone of equal or greater ability than Shaw.

 

I can't see the first option happening. Simply put, Fox isn't actually as bad as people make out, he's better than half the left backs in the Championship. There are a very small group of 'slightly' better players, who might just about consider moving up a division - but I personally can't see that many of them will want to exchange their current roles for a position on our bench. Even those who would are unlikely to be much of an improvement.

 

The second option is equally risky. Bring in someone to challenge Shaw is likely to expedite his wish to move the Chelsea. The one thing we currently have to offer Shaw is a first team position - threaten to remove that from him, and his agent will quickly be trying to stir up interest in the capital.

 

So what choice do we have here. The only type of player who I can see possibly meeting our requirements is someone towards the end of their career, who's played at the top level. Someone who probably couldn't hold down a starting role in the Prem, but is looking for one last opportunity to shine. Personally, I'd have taken a closer look at Bridge last month. He might well be capable of playing better than Fox; he might well be interested in the pay; he might also wish to return to us; but we can't offer him a starting role, and if he's after game time we might not have been in the running. I can't think of many other players who would be a better fit.

 

As such, unless we are willing to risk loosing Shaw by splashing £5m+ on an international left back, I think we're going to have to get used to Fox playing backup for another season.

 

No point in me posting anything original as you have echoed my thoughts exactly. Good work.

[maysie]

Fax isn't as bad as some make out.

 

Fair point but I still prefer email

[JN9]

So much so that he joined Championship Leeds last January.

 

I had a feeling that he had moved on... But yes, point still stands, Warnock is donkey poo, and while some may think Fox is also donkey poo, at least he is our donkey poo, that does his very best.... Surely no more can be asked of him personally..?

[chestersaint]

This is just donkey crap from beginning to end. You should have gone to Specsavers! Do you ever watch the Saints?

 

So you have a different view to me and as a result, I am blind and never watch Saints. If I need to go to spec savers i'll be sure to look at the latest in contemporary rose tinted glasses for you Charlie.

 

Ok so Warnock is at Leeds and Hibbert isn't every toffee's favourite but the point I am trying to make is those players are (in Warnock's case - were) average premiership left backs, not flashy but steady. Fox is not. The fact that someone has quoted an individual time when he came on as sub against West Brom and played well, proves my point. I am not saying he is shocking, I am saying he is a liability. He plays the game like an enthusiastic teenager with all the gumption but no experience. His decision making and positional play are that of a youngster with potential not at all like a 'average premiership player' of 27 should be.

 

Whilst I love the fact that we are courting top players from around the world; I think going into another season with a great youngster backed up by a liability is a major concern.

 

Apologies in advance if talking sense is 'donkey crap'.

[LeBenali]

In an ideal world we'd have someone like Kyle Naughton who can play at both left back & right back. However players like that are likely to come at a premium as it is unusual to have a player who is comfy in both full back positions.

[Professor]

I know the Scottish FA have mainly Sunday league sides from which to find players to represent Scotland which is why the Scotland side usually contains a few players who have qualified because their Great Grandmother once went there for a dirty weekend, but Fox has played for Scotland and you don't get selected at International level by being total rubbish. I don't know what SFC paid for Fox in 2011 but a couple of years earlier he was valued at £1.5m at Celtic. All this rubbishing of Danny Fox seems to have more to do with the poor attitude of some football fans that says 'lets pick on someone and say he's useless' without stopping to think that the professional coaches who evaluate players probably have a more reliable opinion.

[EBS1980]

If we sold Fox then it would be hard to find someone who is happy to play second fiddle to Shaw. Fox will stay until we either have a youngster ready to be understudy or Shaw leaves..

[sotonist]

I know the Scottish FA have mainly Sunday league sides from which to find players to represent Scotland which is why the Scotland side usually contains a few players who have qualified because their Great Grandmother once went there for a dirty weekend, but Fox has played for Scotland and you don't get selected at International level by being total rubbish. I don't know what SFC paid for Fox in 2011 but a couple of years earlier he was valued at £1.5m at Celtic. All this rubbishing of Danny Fox seems to have more to do with the poor attitude of some football fans that says 'lets pick on someone and say he's useless' without stopping to think that the professional coaches who evaluate players probably have a more reliable opinion.

Neil Mccann must have been fine as well. The fans are just bad at judging the merits of footballers who play badly in competitive games.

[Leicestersaint]

Fox makes too many defensive errors - we should let him go.

[captainchris]

Fox is reasonable back up for Shaw. Different type of player but decent back up. Same with Guly - good squad player. Won't stop people on here finding any excuse to knock them. That's football.

 

'Any excuse' how many would you like?

Doesn't close down, can't mark, always out of position, can't see his team mates around him, never links up with the left side midfielder - never sees him!

No particular pace, can't tackle - in summary almost totally useless in any league above a Sunday pub league.....

[captainchris]

So you have a different view to me and as a result, I am blind and never watch Saints. If I need to go to spec savers i'll be sure to look at the latest in contemporary rose tinted glasses for you Charlie.

 

Ok so Warnock is at Leeds and Hibbert isn't every toffee's favourite but the point I am trying to make is those players are (in Warnock's case - were) average premiership left backs, not flashy but steady. Fox is not. The fact that someone has quoted an individual time when he came on as sub against West Brom and played well, proves my point. I am not saying he is shocking, I am saying he is a liability. He plays the game like an enthusiastic teenager with all the gumption but no experience. His decision making and positional play are that of a youngster with potential not at all like a 'average premiership player' of 27 should be.

 

Whilst I love the fact that we are courting top players from around the world; I think going into another season with a great youngster backed up by a liability is a major concern.

 

Apologies in advance if talking sense is 'donkey crap'.

 

Very well put indeed...

[kwsaint]

This is just donkey crap from beginning to end. You should have gone to Specsavers! Do you ever watch the Saints?

 

An entirely useless and insulting comment. You are so arrogant it's unreal. Regardless of whether you think Fox is good enough or not, it's his opinion and saying it's donkey crap is wrong. How can you even suggest that Fox could play in the premier league. He was by far our worst defender last season and never improved like Jos and Fonte did.

[Saint_clark]

'Any excuse' how many would you like?

Doesn't close down, can't mark, always out of position, can't see his team mates around him, never links up with the left side midfielder - never sees him!

No particular pace, can't tackle - in summary almost totally useless in any league above a Sunday pub league.....

 

Except for the fact he was the best left back in the Championship when we got promoted?

[Village Saint]

I think Fox for his service but that's in the past, I'm not sure i would agree with you that he is average at PL level. I'm not a hater of Fox as he did ok for us in the lower leagues but his positioning is very poor and gets himself and others into all sorts of trouble at PL level.

 

All I'm saying is that if we are serious about pushing on we don't want to be bringing on Fox at LB is all. Teams are spending and getting better so this season will be tougher than last IMO.

 

If he's not part of our long term plans its better for him to be finding a new club.

 

It would be a scandalous waste of resources for any team serious about pushing on (we may have money but its not a bottomless pit) to replace Fox who is more than adequate as a back-up. I am sure MP is no fool and will be focussing on the areas we do need to strengthen.

[Whitey Grandad]

I am surprised by the division of opinion over him. In my opinion he was directly at fault for several goals against us last season which cost us a lot of points and with those went a lot of money. We need good quality cover in all positions and cannot rely on Fox as our first reserve. Some say we need competition for places, others that we must not upset our promising teenagers. This is a multi-million pound business and these are talented employees, not preening primadonnas.

[captainchris]

Except for the fact he was the best left back in the Championship when we got promoted?

 

That is a rediculous assumption. He was nowhere near that level.... He was poor there too however we were not - as you would expect, punished quite so often for his obvious lack of talent in that league. Though we were punished several times even in that league !

Fox is a very long way short even as a back up. Consider also that we probably overused Shaw last season and we don't want to do that this year. These days in the premier league your 'backup' needs to be almost on a par with your first choice and playing quite a few games. Fox is definately not that player. If you cannot see that he doesnt notice what is going on around him in a game that's fine but I and many others do notice and worse still the opposition notice and flood down our left every time he is on the pitch because they ALL know how poor he is.......

[sotonist]

He was nowhere near that level.... He was poor there too

 

Agree with that.

 

IIRC Ian Harte was the best left back in the division. On that basis there can't have been a decent left back in the division. Fox won his place because he was the only player other than Lambert who could take a set piece and Harte was one of the best set piece takers in the division.

[angelman]

I have tried to defend the bloke, mainly because the chap behind me always slates him. Sad fact is, that he isn't good enough and when ever Shaw wasn't picked my heart sank a bit. To be honest, the whole stadium seemed to give a collective groan. Shaw still makes mistakes, but he is young and learning and has so many more positive attributes that Fox isn't even challenging to start. He's cover for when Shaw get's injured. Is that good enough? Surely all players in the squad should be pickable on their own merits rather than as cover.

[Barry Sanchez]

This thread is going to attract the Fox haters like flies to ****....

 

For sure as Fox is **** and should be anywhere near this team.

[Barry Sanchez]

I am surprised by the division of opinion over him. In my opinion he was directly at fault for several goals against us last season which cost us a lot of points and with those went a lot of money. We need good quality cover in all positions and cannot rely on Fox as our first reserve. Some say we need competition for places, others that we must not upset our promising teenagers. This is a multi-million pound business and these are talented employees, not preening primadonnas.

 

Villa and a few more goals before that game as well.