Dig Dig Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 I'm not trying to start another discussion around the new kit, enough of that going on at the moment. However, many people who are adverse to any deviation away from a traditional striped kit use the argument that if people accept a mostly red shirt in favour of Premier League football, then what would we be willing to give up as well. Cardiff moving from Blue to Red (thus making their nickname redundant) has been used, stadium naming rights, as well as hypotheticals around Saints being moved out of the City/County. Do people really think that because some people don't mind a non-striped shirt that they would be willing to accept literally anything the club wish to do in the future? Do people really think that having less white on our shirt is comparable to Cardiffs situation? Another interesting question is what would be the cut off point for people in terms of club progression vs the protection of tradition and history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 I think comparing the Kit to the Cardiff situation is pathetic TBH. Its also easy to forget things like the Saints Foundation and the fact our Sponsor is a local company. For me sponsored Stadiums are just something to get used to, ours was the Friends Provident St Mary's Stadium when we moved in and nearly all new grounds are sponsored now, so not bothered about that. Other suggestions, like moving out of town are just laughable really. If somehow we built a new ground it would likely not be in the City Centre but the club aren't going to suddenly move to Romford. Ultimately, its easy to moan, and things like kits werent even discussed a few years ago in the pre internet days. I am bothered about how we do on the pitch rather than an "It's happening" poster or the lack of a stripe on a football kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the colonel Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 here we go again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 I'm not trying to start another discussion around the new kit, enough of that going on at the moment. However, many people who are adverse to any deviation away from a traditional striped kit use the argument that if people accept a mostly red shirt in favour of Premier League football, then what would we be willing to give up as well. Cardiff moving from Blue to Red (thus making their nickname redundant) has been used, stadium naming rights, as well as hypotheticals around Saints being moved out of the City/County. Do people really think that because some people don't mind a non-striped shirt that they would be willing to accept literally anything the club wish to do in the future? Do people really think that having less white on our shirt is comparable to Cardiffs situation? Another interesting question is what would be the cut off point for people in terms of club progression vs the protection of tradition and history? Actually you are. What comes next is a season of exciting football to end all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 1 July, 2013 Author Share Posted 1 July, 2013 Actually you are. What comes next is a season of exciting football to end all this. Actually, I am not. The kit raised various points around what people will accept in exchange for success. This thread is aimed at that those points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 I think comparing the Kit to the Cardiff situation is pathetic TBH. Its also easy to forget things like the Saints Foundation and the fact our Sponsor is a local company. For me sponsored Stadiums are just something to get used to, ours was the Friends Provident St Mary's Stadium when we moved in and nearly all new grounds are sponsored now, so not bothered about that. Other suggestions, like moving out of town are just laughable really. If somehow we built a new ground it would likely not be in the City Centre but the club aren't going to suddenly move to Romford. Ultimately, its easy to moan, and things like kits werent even discussed a few years ago in the pre internet days. I am bothered about how we do on the pitch rather than an "It's happening" poster or the lack of a stripe on a football kit. This. We've got another kit without stripes down the front but so what (it does in fact have stripes which are the corporate brand of it's supplier. The deal may involve their stripes taking priority over ours - i haven't got a problem with that and a striped shirt with more stripes on would probably look sh1t anyway). Our badge has gone gold, maybe for a season or longer but again so what. So far as I can tell that's all that the horrible Mr Cortese has done. Hardly worthy of moaning from anyone imo, and certainly not worthy of yet another thread seeking to discuss nothing much at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 1 July, 2013 Author Share Posted 1 July, 2013 This. We've got another kit without stripes down the front but so what (it does in fact have stripes which are the corporate brand of it's supplier. The deal may involve their stripes taking priority over ours - i haven't got a problem with that and a striped shirt with more stripes on would probably look sh1t anyway). Our badge has gone gold, maybe for a season or longer but again so what. So far as I can tell that's all that the horrible Mr Cortese has done. Hardly worthy of moaning from anyone imo, and certainly not worthy of yet another thread seeking to discuss nothing much at all. But worthy of a post from you mate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 But worthy of a post from you mate? Stop trying to promote your own thread mate. FWIW I think myself and egg have summed up the situation well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 when was the last time a stripes team won the league? I can't think of one yo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 (edited) when was the last time a stripes team won the league? I can't think of one yo! Sunderland in 1936 Unless you count the Liverpool pinstripe kits of the 1980's... In which case the most recent striped top flight winners would be Liverpool in 1984 - the year Southampton were 2nd and only 3 points behind Liverpool with Saints not wearing stripes! Edited 1 July, 2013 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 Thanks MLG! It seems cortese is on to something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSFC Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 I support Southampton FC because it is "my city". IF I was born and bred in Manchester. Liverpool, London, Birmingham etc then it would mean other reasons dictated who #i would have started supporting 40 odd years ago. Now as much as red and white stripes has been synonomoous with "Saints" for (virtually) all my lifetime, I have never actually preferred them to a ""one colour" type shirt. I like our new strips but totally get why some do not. his is not the debate on this thread. I'm not saying by a long way that I as a supporter would accept anything but the things thst REALLY matter in terms of tradition and heritage are simply the performances and results of the team itself. Everything else, boardroom battles, venue changes, manager changes, players, do not change the fact that I support Southampton FC BECAUSE they represent MY CITY. It would not matter which division they are in and it didnt!! The decisions of the owner(s), directors and employees of the club simply determine whether I spend my money with them and how often. My attendance or not at any particular game will not and never will effect my passion for the team/club nor my desire for them to win. Fans claim that owners have/do lose siht of whats important, I would put it to you that possibly us fans do too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 In the history of football, has anyone seriously boycotted a game because of fashion? I'd prefer stripes, I can live with red just as long as things add up on the pitch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 In the history of football, has anyone seriously boycotted a game because of fashion? I'd prefer stripes, I can live with red just as long as things add up on the pitch... But Darren don't you see, it's the tip of the iceberg. Nasty nick could instruct the groundsman to cut different stripes into grass, or change the brand of the ketchup next. I honestly don't know where these massive changes will end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 But Darren don't you see, it's the tip of the iceberg. Nasty nick could instruct the groundsman to cut different stripes into grass, or change the brand of the ketchup next. I honestly don't know where these massive changes will end. Any change away from Heinz ketchup sachets and I'd seriously have to reconsider my support for the club... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinger Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 I support Southampton FC because it is "my city". IF I was born and bred in Manchester. Liverpool, London, Birmingham etc then it would mean other reasons dictated who #i would have started supporting 40 odd years ago. Now as much as red and white stripes has been synonomoous with "Saints" for (virtually) all my lifetime, I have never actually preferred them to a ""one colour" type shirt. I like our new strips but totally get why some do not. his is not the debate on this thread. I'm not saying by a long way that I as a supporter would accept anything but the things thst REALLY matter in terms of tradition and heritage are simply the performances and results of the team itself. Everything else, boardroom battles, venue changes, manager changes, players, do not change the fact that I support Southampton FC BECAUSE they represent MY CITY. It would not matter which division they are in and it didnt!! The decisions of the owner(s), directors and employees of the club simply determine whether I spend my money with them and how often. My attendance or not at any particular game will not and never will effect my passion for the team/club nor my desire for them to win. Fans claim that owners have/do lose siht of whats important, I would put it to you that possibly us fans do too.... This is about it for me. What's important is that Saints are my local team and I've always supported them. The closest I've ever come to reconsidering that position is when fellow fans were trying to tell me what I ought to think about Rupert Lowe. I had a guy tell me I wasn't a Saints fan because I wouldn't sign his petition. Staff, stadia, sponsors change, only the fans remain. If they start to fall out with each other then there is no club left to speak of. I've had alarm bells ring in my head over the more ruthless business decisions made at the club in recent years. But if that got too much, I'd walk away as a customer rather than cease to be a fan or fall out with other Saints fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 In the history of football, has anyone seriously boycotted a game because of fashion? I'd prefer stripes, I can live with red just as long as things add up on the pitch... Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stardustonmyfeet Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 Barcelona do ok in stripes. Maybe we need more blue in our kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 I'm actually surprised we haven't had a naming rights sponsor for the ground yet. Wouldn't both me so long as its not embarrassing. Everyone will still call it St Mary's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orchardsaint Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 I support Southampton FC because it is "my city". IF I was born and bred in Manchester. Liverpool, London, Birmingham etc then it would mean other reasons dictated who #i would have started supporting 40 odd years ago. Now as much as red and white stripes has been synonomoous with "Saints" for (virtually) all my lifetime, I have never actually preferred them to a ""one colour" type shirt. I like our new strips but totally get why some do not. his is not the debate on this thread. I'm not saying by a long way that I as a supporter would accept anything but the things thst REALLY matter in terms of tradition and heritage are simply the performances and results of the team itself. Everything else, boardroom battles, venue changes, manager changes, players, do not change the fact that I support Southampton FC BECAUSE they represent MY CITY. It would not matter which division they are in and it didnt!! The decisions of the owner(s), directors and employees of the club simply determine whether I spend my money with them and how often. My attendance or not at any particular game will not and never will effect my passion for the team/club nor my desire for them to win. Fans claim that owners have/do lose siht of whats important, I would put it to you that possibly us fans do too.... i also love the club. it is my team. i could not, and would not support any one else. i am not from southampton. i was born and bred in derby. i have never supported anyone else other than the saints. all my friends and family are rams. however i totally agree that whatever happens, you still support the club. any one who changes club, for whatever reason, should be banned from football grounds for life. i have been ridiculed and abused because of the stuff that goes on behind the scenes at the dell/st marys. but that never bothered me, the football did the talking. when we went down, i got more abuse. it never bothered me, i am a saint and i cannot change that. when we nearly went bust a few years back, i was asked who i would support if they did. no one. i would probably lose interest in football altogether. i am a saint. if they didn't exist, i couldn't get worked up about the league. i am not keen on things changing, but not many are, but if change means better - and there aren't many decisions NC has made to make us worse - then i say go for it. who cried when the candy stripes were introduced? or the plain red anniversary kit? or away kits going from yellow to blue to white to black? or when the badge first appeared? or when the badge changed in the mid 90's? we are the saints. let everyone else deal with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 Sunderland in 1936 the year Southampton were 2nd and only 3 points behind Liverpool with Saints not wearing stripes! That shirt has stripes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Fred Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 Barcelona do ok in stripes. Maybe we need more blue in our kit? Their kit is not stripes every year either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 Perhaps I'm in the minority (on this forum, at least) but I couldn't give a **** about the specific design of the shirt (it changes every year, some will be good, some bad), I don't care for the sponsor (unless its inappropriate) and I don't care about stadium naming (it's a flat-pack stadium, it's no Dell). I support the football club, not the business. I am acutely aware of how strongly the two are linked and how important they are to each other, but I don't turn up to support businessmen and businesses, I turn up to support my home football team. If 'selling out' to **** shirt designs and crap naming rights means my football team is stronger for it, why aren't we doing that? Getting upset over such material things is akin to refusing to support Southampton after moving out of the Dell. As modern and excellent as St Marys is, it was a business decision to move not an emotional one, much like sponsorship and to a lesser extent, shirt designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 Perhaps I'm in the minority (on this forum, at least) but I couldn't give a **** about the specific design of the shirt (it changes every year, some will be good, some bad), I don't care for the sponsor (unless its inappropriate) and I don't care about stadium naming (it's a flat-pack stadium, it's no Dell). I support the football club, not the business. I am acutely aware of how strongly the two are linked and how important they are to each other, but I don't turn up to support businessmen and businesses, I turn up to support my home football team. If 'selling out' to **** shirt designs and crap naming rights means my football team is stronger for it, why aren't we doing that? Getting upset over such material things is akin to refusing to support Southampton after moving out of the Dell. As modern and excellent as St Marys is, it was a business decision to move not an emotional one, much like sponsorship and to a lesser extent, shirt designs. Just wondering, how is our club any stronger (or weaker for that matter) depending on the style of shirt the team wears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red&white56 Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 I don't think you should consider the protection of tradition / history with progression or lack of. I don't think they are directly related, and I only mean off the pitch traditions. Having said that my cut-off would be the team leaving the city/county to play elsewhere. Another cut-off would be an amalgamation with Pompey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 Having said that my cut-off would be the team leaving the city/county to play elsewhere. Leaving the city or the county? They are two quite different things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red&white56 Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 Leaving the city or the county? They are two quite different things? Yes - I was thinking city originally but realised that if they moved to Winchester I wouldn't be that bothered, but if they moved to Basingstoke I might be, if they moved to Pompey I would be livid...... Then I gave up trying to figure it out and put both.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 One thing we can be sure of is that whatever happens in the future it will have been well thought, researched and not taken lightly. We can also be sure that the decisons made will be the correct ones, as they have all been thus far in the reign of our chairman. Maybe before the so called supporters of Southampton leap to be outraged they should remember this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 (edited) No idea why people DON'T think that's stripes. It's barely any different to this (if reversed), and I don't remember any "it's not stripes" moaning about this one : Edited 1 July, 2013 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 No idea why people DON'T think that's stripes. because it is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 because it is not. How is it not ? It's 3 white stripes (one broad, two narrow) and two red ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 How is it not ? It's 3 white stripes (one broad, two narrow) and two red ones. when people think southampton, they dont think that kit, that is for sure. which is the whole point of the 'non' stripes debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 when people think southampton, they dont think that kit, that is for sure. which is the whole point of the 'non' stripes debate Err. I think the whole point of the non stripes debate is people like you pretending striped shirts from the past weren't stripes when they clearly were. Keep trying Brett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 No idea why people DON'T think that's stripes. It's barely any different to this (if reversed), and I don't remember any "it's not stripes" moaning about this one : That kit was proper poo, though. A trillion times better than our current abortion, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 Another interesting question is what would be the cut off point for people in terms of club progression vs the protection of tradition and history? I don't see those two things being opposing forces. Progression can be achieved without the degradation of tradition and history, but likewise over the course of a football clubs life things are always going to change and sometimes that touches tradition. People are biologically adverse to change and when you add that to tribalism and sense of belonging that football brings, I suppose I can see why there is so much outrage when people perceive the history and tradition of the club to be disrespected. I highly doubt the powers that be have intentionally done anything in spite nor anything that they know would damage the club. It just wouldn't do them any good. For me progression always means change - sometimes that involves history and tradition and other times not. When you take the case of Manchester United, a group of fans felt so unengaged with the club they went off and formed their own, only to face the same issues other clubs did despite a manifesto which claimed otherwise (moving their FA Cup game with Rochdale for TV was hilarious). I think it is quite clear from the soundbites we've had from Cortese over the last 4 years that he is determined for the club to be perceived differently than it had before. He seems hell bent that we will be perceived as something far more than the perennial strugglers from the South coast. Whilst the majority of that can be done with the foundation of a good team and everything that goes into that, I can only assume a part of this work is reshaping how the club is represented aesthetically in some cases - be it slogans, badges, kits, etc. But for me, they are just aesthetic things. They are the face of the club to others. For me as a supporter I care more about the other things - things like our attitude to the Academy and youth development, and our style of play. They matter more to me as a supporter and define our club more. And I am very happy with those things no matter how they are presented to me in the shapes of kits etc. The only time I'll be at a cut off point is when the club make football unaffordable for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 The worst possible thing would be moving the ground out of the city centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 I see hand sanitary towels are the next to go. Cortese has no shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 Agree totally that the reason for supporting saints I'd cause you're from Southampton. It's about your roots, the friends you made in the city and on the terraces. And it's why I never want us to be a global "brand" who's support has nothing to do with Southampton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 Agree totally that the reason for supporting saints I'd cause you're from Southampton. It's about your roots, the friends you made in the city and on the terraces. And it's why I never want us to be a global "brand" who's support has nothing to do with Southampton what if you started supporting saints in 2003? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted 1 July, 2013 Share Posted 1 July, 2013 what if you started supporting saints in 2003? Then you started supporting them then. Don't see why that would change the fact it's prose in where you come from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now