Venting my Spleen

[dinger]

But 89/90 being much better and more exciting than 88/89, which is the "changeover" he is talking about I think?

 

As I mentioned, it's possible you can pick slight holes in my timeline. Memory is more important than truth anyway

[CB Fry]

That's all a bit made up isn't? We never played Stoke or Sunderland for most of the last 80s, there was no sky or motd, so that was not really on people's conciousness. And that "change of kit" in '89 coincided with us playing some of the most exciting football in our history, followed up a few years later by Alan Ball's team.

 

 

It's a laughable article. Remarkable knowledge of Stoke and Sunderland's striped kits despite us barely ever playing them but no idea whatsover that his own team played in stripes.

 

And oh how woeful that striped team that beat Liverpool 4-1 and finished 7th was. Oh I hated those days at school.

 

Disingenous nonsense. Hats off for the brassneck of it.

[dinger]

Do you seriously expect anyone to believe that?

 

Don't care mate, it's my experience of it I'm talking about, not a testimony in a court of law. It was a roundabout way of saying that 'The Stripes' hold no special place in my heart. Saints always played in a combination of red and white, but striped shirts are synonymous for me with a poor Saints team. That letter was one I sent to F365 in response to colinjb's Save Our Stripes petition on the same site. Sour Mash might have a more accurate memory of the overlap of kit/performance at the turn of the 90s. But no, for the first 6-7 years I went, Saints didn't play in stripes and (as I generally went with my dad, who had no real football allegiance) the issue of our traditional stripes never came up.

[dinger]

It's a laughable article. Remarkable knowledge of Stoke and Sunderland's striped kits despite us barely ever playing them but no idea whatsover that his own team played in stripes.

 

And oh how woeful that striped team that beat Liverpool 4-1 and finished 7th was. Oh I hated those days at school.

 

Disingenous nonsense. Hats off for the brassneck of it.

 

It's not an 'article' mate, it's just my memory of supporting Saints in the 80s. Crikey, some of you guys have got short fuses...

[dinger]

It's a laughable article. Remarkable knowledge of Stoke and Sunderland's striped kits despite us barely ever playing them but no idea whatsover that his own team played in stripes.

 

And oh how woeful that striped team that beat Liverpool 4-1 and finished 7th was. Oh I hated those days at school.

 

Disingenous nonsense. Hats off for the brassneck of it.

 

Also there's nothing particularly remarkable about knowing that Stoke and Sunderland played in stripes, having seen them do it. Whereas I'd never seen Saints do it. This isn't a tissue of lies you have to unpick, just a blurry childhood memory.

[aintforever]

but striped shirts are synonymous for me with a poor Saints team.

 

Like Chis Nicholl's 4-2-4 side that thrashed the Champions Liverpool 4-1 and finished 7th?

 

That's the best Saints side I've ever seen play.

[dinger]

Like Chis Nicholl's 4-2-4 side that thrashed the Champions Liverpool 4-1 and finished 7th?

 

That's the best Saints side I've ever seen play.

 

Fair play man, like I say, it was just a whimsical rebuttal to colinjb's letter to the same website about how all Saints fans wanted was the stripes back. We've played some good games in striped shirts, obviously.

 

I must remember to only ever deal in absolute facts in future, rather than e.g. nostalgia or memory or feelings or any of that rubbish. Just writing a PM to MLG now for pointers on how to never be wrong.

[CB Fry]

It's not an 'article' mate, it's just my memory of supporting Saints in the 80s. Crikey, some of you guys have got short fuses...

 

No short fuse. Just laughing at a load of made up false memories ro make a rather weak point.

 

I tell you we talked of little else except Stoke and Sunderland in Bellemoor in 1989. Pored over the middle of the division 2 table we did.

[dinger]

No short fuse. Just laughing at a load of made up false memories ro make a rather weak point.

 

I tell you we talked of little else except Stoke and Sunderland in Bellemoor in 1989. Pored over the middle of the division 2 table we did.

 

Suit yourself man, if it makes you feel better. Stoke and Sunderland had played in the top flight and been rubbish. That was my memory of them anyway. As for what you pored over in Bellemoor, I grew up in Winchester. Everyone in my school supported Spurs or Liverpool, so they didn't talk much about what Saints wore in the 70s.

[aintforever]

Fair play man, like I say, it was just a whimsical rebuttal to colinjb's letter to the same website about how all Saints fans wanted was the stripes back. We've played some good games in striped shirts, obviously.

 

I must remember to only ever deal in absolute facts in future, rather than e.g. nostalgia or memory or feelings or any of that rubbish. Just writing a PM to MLG now for pointers on how to never be wrong.

 

You are just making sh!t up to justify a decision made by 'he who does no wrong'.

[CB Fry]

Suit yourself man, if it makes you feel better. Stoke and Sunderland had played in the top flight and been rubbish. That was my memory of them anyway. As for what you pored over in Bellemoor, I grew up in Winchester. Everyone in my school supported Spurs or Liverpool, so they didn't talk much about what Saints wore in the 70s.

 

Of course. You had to be talked to about us wearing stripes. I think there was a formal course plus exam in schools in Southampton. You must have missed out.

 

Our kit heritage not the kind of thing you just pick up as a part of being a fan, like the kits of lower division teams (teams who entirely by coincedence are in the Premier League now).

 

It's all good.

[70's Mike]

Suit yourself man, if it makes you feel better. Stoke and Sunderland had played in the top flight and been rubbish. That was my memory of them anyway. As for what you pored over in Bellemoor, I grew up in Winchester. Everyone in my school supported Spurs or Liverpool, so they didn't talk much about what Saints wore in the 70s.

 

Strange always a big group of Winchester lads at away games in late 70's

[Turkish]

Of course. You had to be talked to about us wearing stripes. I think there was a formal course plus exam in schools in Southampton. You must have missed out.

 

Our kit heritage not the kind of thing you just pick up as a part of being a fan, like the kits of lower division teams (teams who entirely by coincedence are in the Premier League now).

 

It's all good.

 

He's got a point.

 

i remember going to see Saints play Sunderland in the FA Cup in 1985, we won 4-0 in probably one of the most one sided games i'd ever see. Sunderland wore a blue away kit but my dad told me that they had to wear that colour as they usually played in the same colours at us. I always remember leaving the game not celebrating the victory and enjoying seeing my hero steve Moran score two more goals, or even to try to keep warm on a bitter January afternoon on the milton road terrace, but just hoping that we never, ever wore the same kit as a team so rubbish.

[Colinjb]

Fair play man, like I say, it was just a whimsical rebuttal to colinjb's letter to the same website about how all Saints fans wanted was the stripes back. We've played some good games in striped shirts, obviously.

 

I must remember to only ever deal in absolute facts in future, rather than e.g. nostalgia or memory or feelings or any of that rubbish. Just writing a PM to MLG now for pointers on how to never be wrong.

 

I can understand how it may have seemed as though I was trying to make it seem that all Saints fans wanted them when I was actually trying to reach out to those did.... Not entirely clear.

[dinger]

I can understand how it may have seemed as though I was trying to make it seem that all Saints fans wanted them when I was actually trying to reach out to those did.... Not entirely clear.

 

Ha! I knew that, man. Never really took it that seriously. Seems like I should have done though, in case my memories turned out to be LIES!

[Grey Crab]

Of course. You had to be talked to about us wearing stripes. I think there was a formal course plus exam in schools in Southampton. You must have missed out.

 

Our kit heritage not the kind of thing you just pick up as a part of being a fan, like the kits of lower division teams (teams who entirely by coincedence are in the Premier League now).

 

It's all good.

 

Cripes. He's really got to you, hasn't he?

 

Fair play, dinger. Fry's really struggling to deal with your reasonable personal view and easy manner.

[CB Fry]

Cripes. He's really got to you, hasn't he?

 

Fair play, dinger. Fry's really struggling to deal with your reasonable personal view and easy manner.

 

I'm not struggling, brand new person on the forum.

 

You know my motto. It takes diff'rent strokes to move the world. Yes it does.

[JRM]

Cripes. He's really got to you, hasn't he?

 

Fair play, dinger. Fry's really struggling to deal with your reasonable personal view and easy manner.

 

his reasonable personal view' is still factually wrong though.

[diggers]

we've not changed club colours. We've not changed logo, and we've not tried to re-nickname ourselves a la 'red dragons'.

 

yet!

[yorkie]

To add my five penny worth - I remember a song of the terraces that ended up with the lines:

 

"Compared to the boys in red and white stripes"

"And black shorts"

"And the white socks with the two red rings"

 

NB May have made up those last two lines but I think it shows where I'm coming from!!

[pap]

I tell you we talked of little else except Stoke and Sunderland in Bellemoor in 1989. Pored over the middle of the division 2 table we did.

 

Cheers for this. Explains everything.

[diggers]

When I was much younger, and I'd wear a Saints shirt while away on Hols, you'd almost always have someone come up to you and speak about Saints as they'd automatically recognised the kit from afar and associated the kit with our club which (for me at least) always seamed to conjure up good will with other neutral football fans.

I just don't see this years kit being so instantly recognisable to those neutrals and that indicates a loss of identity, this cant possibly be anything a step forwards?

[Frank's cousin]

When I was much younger, and I'd wear a Saints shirt while away on Hols, you'd almost always have someone come up to you and speak about Saints as they'd automatically recognised the kit from afar and associated the kit with our club which (for me at least) always seamed to conjure up good will with other neutral football fans.

I just don't see this years kit being so instantly recognisable to those neutrals and that indicates a loss of identity, this cant possibly be anything a step forwards?

 

Dont necessarily think it was ever conceived as a step forward, more based on whatever deal the club got from Adidas. To the club less important commercially than other areas, but it is a shame that given the low priority commercially, the club did not use this as an opportunity to actively engage with fans about what they liked.

 

i suspect the change in direction begun last year was more about 'change' - the same way we now look back at the xerox/air Florida years and associate that shirt with the success of that era, I think NC wants something unique to be associated with what he has in mind... This can go two ways of course. majority will never like it, but we will remember it if it comes with the Success NC is after...

[Polaroid Saint]

I keep thinking I have said all I need/want to say on this subject, but I think this needs reiterating:

(The results and methodologies can be debated, but research has been done and the empirical evidence is clear to the layman);

over the last ten to fifteen years teams that have consistently performed well in the league and cup have had a yearly or biennial change of expensive and disappointing kits.

[OldNick]

Dont necessarily think it was ever conceived as a step forward, more based on whatever deal the club got from Adidas. To the club less important commercially than other areas, but it is a shame that given the low priority commercially, the club did not use this as an opportunity to actively engage with fans about what they liked.

 

i suspect the change in direction begun last year was more about 'change' - the same way we now look back at the xerox/air Florida years and associate that shirt with the success of that era, I think NC wants something unique to be associated with what he has in mind... This can go two ways of course. majority will never like it, but we will remember it if it comes with the Success NC is after...

at the end of the day even if the fans were involved this site would be in meltdown with the results.

The club has done better without the fans input in the last few years. It seems a lot of fans dont have the negative feel that a lot do on here and are buying the kit.

As the club looks to become more prominent worldwide they will not look at smalltown mentality to develop.

 

 

No doubt when the club changed their original kit and the awful quartered kit there were the curmudgeons in those days who failed to see the progress.

[Channon's Sideburns]

at the end of the day even if the fans were involved this site would be in meltdown with the results.

The club has done better without the fans input in the last few years. It seems a lot of fans dont have the negative feel that a lot do on here and are buying the kit.

As the club looks to become more prominent worldwide they will not look at smalltown mentality to develop.

 

 

No doubt when the club changed their original kit and the awful quartered kit there were the curmudgeons in those days who failed to see the progress.

 

Progress Nick? REALLY??!

 

Yes the club is totally different to the one that Cortese inherited - but you see that if we make progress on the pitch we can disregard everything that's gone before?

 

The argument shouldn't be about 'stripes' - because that's a circular argument over personal preference.

 

It's the 'all red' element that gets my goat the most - this new home kit (as lame as it is) would look more like 'Saints' for me if there were black shorts.

 

Key thing is - there would be even more than 60% against this home kit if we weren't in the Prem - the partial acceptance of the change to all red because of 'where we are' (Prem) says it all.

[NickG]

Find some reactions here quite stunning.

 

You can almost see some peoples' blood pressure rise, or a tear in their eye, over the pattern on a T-shirt?!

 

Sunderland, Newcastle and Stoke have always played in stripes but we haven't.

 

I started going as a child in '76 so had to wait 13 years to see a striped kit and have watched saints more often in other patterns.

 

New kit is alright, many others better (80-85, 99, 2010) but its no further from "traditional" than the design I saw in my youth worn by what I see as history.

 

You can't delete or change history - there are some weird comments that a new kit deletes the past?

 

Reckon at a push 18 seasons out of last 38 we wore traditional stripes. Not like Newcastle and Sunderland who are striped sides.

 

(One of those of 18 was under current regime).

 

God knows the deal with adidas or design options offered under contract.

 

Would be great to stick with a kit for few years to get and identity and be fair to kids buying them.

 

Not seen kit or non-saints version personally but was told they are very different reds so be careful if ordering cheap option on line

[Channon's Sideburns]

Find some reactions here quite stunning.

 

You can almost see some peoples' blood pressure rise, or a tear in their eye, over the pattern on a T-shirt?!

 

Sunderland, Newcastle and Stoke have always played in stripes but we haven't.

 

I started going as a child in '76 so had to wait 13 years to see a striped kit and have watched saints more often in other patterns.

 

New kit is alright, many others better (80-85, 99, 2010) but its no further from "traditional" than the design I saw in my youth worn by what I see as history.

 

You can't delete or change history - there are some weird comments that a new kit deletes the past?

 

Reckon at a push 18 seasons out of last 38 we wore traditional stripes. Not like Newcastle and Sunderland who are striped sides.

 

(One of those of 18 was under current regime).

 

God knows the deal with adidas or design options offered under contract.

 

Would be great to stick with a kit for few years to get and identity and be fair to kids buying them.

 

Not seen kit or non-saints version personally but was told they are very different reds so be careful if ordering cheap option on line

 

You missed the 77 kit then Nick?

[Channon's Sideburns]

Just seen that Blackburn's kit deal with Nike has produced this, described by the club as showing the 'iconic' design...

 

'Iconic' eh? Who would have thought it......

 

http://www.footballshirtculture.com/13/14-kits/blackburn-rovers-2013-2014-nike-home-football-shirt.html

[saint1977]

I can remember plenty of seasons where we didn't have stripes. My favourite kit in fact is the sash which I still wear because the last couple of kits haven't been my cup of tea. Not keen on this year's as it's a bit too generic and although the away is much better, that v-neck is weird. Have a feeling the AAP ironed on logo will fall off after long. I'll still go to as many games as I can afford the petrol for though and I really do think some people overreact to things like kits.

 

Mind you, not as bad as some of the boneheads moaning on the transfers thread. We've signed a highly rated CB in Lovren, which we badly needed and if he hadn't had a slight dip in form at the end of his time at Lyon we wouldn't have a sniff. We bought slightly out of form/sour players under Lawrie and made them shine again so why not now? We are clearly after another 3 or 4 high quality players and I think we'll get them. I know how badly we need pace out wide and up front but be patient.

[Tom & Gerry]

It's not just the kit though is it. Yes we've changed kit quite a few times before and we've accepted it (some times reluctantly) and no we've never had any say in the matter any way, but now for some perhaps many of us there is a feeling of alienation. There is no explanation and this is how it is and your opinion unless positive is not welcome.It's my club and I'll do what I want.

We know that the present regime are single minded and ruthless in their pursuit of success for this club and maybe that is the only way it can be achieved. Perhaps in 10 years time we will look back and say thank goodness for Cortese - where would we be now without him, but I sense already that the higher we go the harder this success is going to be to achieve. There has been a lot of hype about a top 10 finish this season but unless we can attract high quality players that fit in to our system (and we may do) then the season will be just as much a struggle as the last. There is no guarantee that the Cortese way will be any more successful than any other.

If that happens will we be as happy as some appear to be at the way the club is run?

[Batman]

serious question

when the solid red top was around in the 80s.

did the club make an explanation then?

[Tom & Gerry]

serious question

when the solid red top was around in the 80s.

did the club make an explanation then?

 

Probably not, who remembers?

 

So you have to ask yourself what is it about this regime that makes some people feel so manipulated and alienated.

[Batman]

Probably not, who remembers?

 

So you have to ask yourself what is it about this regime that makes some people feel so manipulated and alienated.

 

because they get worked up over something that has happened many times in the past?

[Tom & Gerry]

because they get worked up over something that has happened many times in the past?

 

I get the impression that more people are getting worked up this time,

 

Why?

[Batman]

I get the impression that more people are getting worked up this time,

 

Why?

 

because as a nation. we literally moan about every aspect of everything

the internet does not help.

[Saint_clark]

I get the impression that more people are getting worked up this time,

 

Why?

 

Because it's not just a deviation, it's a bloody awful kit with nothing unique about it.

[Batman]

Because it's not just a deviation, it's a bloody awful kit with nothing unique about it.

 

I get the moaning about the kit being awful. But all this crap about erasing history etc. well, is crap

[Saint_clark]

I get the moaning about the kit being awful. But all this crap about erasing history etc. well, is crap

 

Agree with that. I've said all along that i have no problem with doing something different - but actually do something different! Adidas have ripped us right off, no matter how much or how little we're paying them.

[Scummer]

Agree with that. I've said all along that i have no problem with doing something different - but actually do something different! Adidas have ripped us right off, no matter how much or how little we're paying them.

 

I'd have thought they are paying us, not the other way round? Arsenal, Chelsea etc get paid tens of millions by Nike and Adidas. We're not going to be at that level, but effectively Adidas are sponsoring us and they will be paying for the privilege.

[lifeintheslowlane]

because as a nation. we literally moan about every aspect of everything

the internet does not help.

 

The Internet has given everyone a mouthpiece...life's trivia is given a distorted importance. Most of the world don't give a f**k.

[Tom & Gerry]

because as a nation. we literally moan about every aspect of everything

the internet does not help.

 

Because it's not just a deviation, it's a bloody awful kit with nothing unique about it.

 

Both are true but I still think there is more to it than that. That's why people refer to the history

[Batman]

Because it's not just a deviation, it's a bloody awful kit with nothing unique about it.

 

Both are true but I still think there is more to it than that. That's why people refer to the history

then, I ask. was there outrage in the 80s when many of the kits deviated from traditional red and white stripes.

 

I doubt it

[lifeintheslowlane]

then, I ask. was there outrage in the 80s when many of the kits deviated from traditional red and white stripes.

 

I doubt it

 

Too bloody right...they remember fantastic, exciting, attacking football from, Moran, Keegan, Channon, Golac et al. Played in front of packed crowds in a small antiquated football ground with an unmatched atmosphere. Runners-up in the First Division...nobody gave a toss it was done whilst wearing Red shirts with a stupid white bibb.

[Tom & Gerry]

then, I ask. was there outrage in the 80s when many of the kits deviated from traditional red and white stripes.

 

I doubt it

 

As now there were some for and some against. It was more of a novelty then. As I recall a feeling grew that we should return to stripes which we did do.

[OldNick]

the worst thing that has ever happened to oyur kit in all the clubs history is sponsors names on it, that defaces our clubs kit more than anything.

PS Granty Ive sent a cheque over a week ago and still not had my members been updated, Im sick of all the adverts on here

[Channon's Sideburns]

serious question

when the solid red top was around in the 80s.

did the club make an explanation then?

 

It was the club's centenary year (as I posted earlier in the thread) - it had a reason.

[Channon's Sideburns]

Just to make it clear, my personal choice would have been an updated version of the Keegan Rank Xerox kit. It's not the 'traditional stripes' but it's red and white in 'striped form'.

 

Probably the most glorious stage of our club's development in the early 80's.

 

So don't place me in the 'equal width stripes or nothing else' camp. I also quite liked the Hummel kits.

[Batman]

It was the club's centenary year (as I posted earlier in the thread) - it had a reason.

 

what reason was it to have that kit?

The sash kit (which NC did) made complete sense as a one off.

[Channon's Sideburns]

what reason was it to have that kit?

The sash kit (which NC did) made complete sense as a one off.

 

It was a design by Patrick specifically to commemorate the 100th year of the club - a 'one-off' for a reason.

 

You can't use that to justify this latest decision. Centenaries are normally a bit more celebrated than 125th's.