Venting my Spleen

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Anyone else thinking of this when you read this thread?

 

[Saints boy in Leeds]

Right, time to put my viewpoint on the 'kit' situation.

 

But it's about more than the kit, so that's why I've started this thread. It's about what we 'accept' in life and what we don't.

 

The reason for this, is that online, on FB and Twitter since the new kit was launched, I've been considered a 'bedwetter' - rather interesting that term, seeing as most of those accusing me of such, appear to have just left nappies themselves...or are still in them, I can't tell.

Thing is, I don't blame them - all they've known is the desired 'Premier League Dream'....

 

There's a song by the Manics called 'If you tolerate this' - now that's about the Spanish Civil War. No doubt me referring to that song already has some of the youngsters screaming 'bedwetter'...still I'm only 38....the last time I wet the bed was after a particularly good night trying to drink enough Newcastle Brown Ale to get a Blue Star badge (I kid you not - no f'n WKD in those days..)..

 

Anyway.

 

I hate what this new kit stands for.

 

I 'tolerated' last season's 'ironic' play on 'red & white'.

 

I won't tolerate this blatant change of our club's profile by stealth - 'oh let's be clever, get them liking the all red by having an away white kit we never wear' routine - I can see right through it.

 

This new kit is a cop out.

 

And then it happens - all day today people have been queuing up like sheep to hand over £50 and, in turn, give their backing to a rebrand by stealth of OUR CLUB. Pics all over the club's twitter feed of 'happy people loving the new kit'...

 

I didn't tolerate Rupert Lowe coming back - I made my voice known, and also marched alongside people like Mary Corbett.

 

Yes, I'm an 'old school fan' - Saints have always been to me - red and white stripes. And I'm now meant to apologise for that????

 

 

A lot of the 'pro-all red' camp say 'support the club, not the shirt' - but that is BOLL0CKS.

 

It's a COP OUT.

You wouldn't have tolerated it under Lowe if he'd tried this stunt.

 

There's no point reaching the Premier League again - if you sell your club's soul.

 

Think of that as you hand over £50.

 

 

I don't really like the new kit or last seasons kit and I won't be buying it either but like you say that's up to me.

 

I've supported saints for 20 years and we've always been in Red and white, so thats what ive bee used to, it does p£/s me off that we don't have stripes again because I actually like stripes on kits, its the gold option that really gets to me though, IMO teams that have won things should have gold on thier kit.

 

But as far as the branding / PL dream goes you have to take your hat off to NC, not sure he needed to change our kit in the process though ?

[Batman]

Anyone else thinking of this when you read this thread?

 

 

No stripes

[Alain Perrin]

I expect he'd rather not feel the need in the first place.

 

And as said before on this thread, can you imagine the furore if Lowe had done this ? Although even to Lowe's credit he might have blustered his way through a press conference explaining his reasons.

 

In fairness, Lowe could have launched the finest Armani designed shirt and people would have marched against him. And he'd have been criticised for the press conference justifying it!

 

l'll be back at 450 pages to turn off the lights.

Sent from my RM-821_eu_euro1_276 using Board Express

[Stepgar]

It's a flaming kit for christ sake. They wear it for 90mins every week. If people pay £50 it's up to them, it's not compulsory to buy it.

 

What on earth is the big deal? I don't get it. People getting worked up over the colour of a top doesn't quite register to me.

 

Sod it then, let's go back to L1, maybe L2, but at least we'll have our stripes.

 

Thank god you posted this as the second post. Saved me loads of time. This all day long.

[Professor]

As others said, it´s opinions but understandable that we can feel different.

 

For me at this moment, I like the home kit, (will probably learn to love it). I already love the away kit and I understand why the club is making this transition from the stripes which I dont will come back in it´s old style.

 

But most important for me, I support the club, (the badge, players etc). That always trumph any other opinion of mine.

Not a good idea to 'Love' the new kit, because (1) 'new' it is not, it is a copy of shirts worn by other teams, and (2) its not even the club's new kit, its just a shirt to be worn for this season. Those who have donated their £50 - foolishly in my opinion - will be asked for another £50 next year for next year's 'new kit'.

 

Better be careful about supporting the badge as well, as there's a striped scarf on the badge, so how long before that goes.

[Olallana]

Not a good idea to 'Love' the new kit, because (1) 'new' it is not, it is a copy of shirts worn by other teams, and (2) its not even the club's new kit, its just a shirt to be worn for this season. Those who have donated their £50 - foolishly in my opinion - will be asked for another £50 next year for next year's 'new kit'.

 

Better be careful about supporting the badge as well, as there's a striped scarf on the badge, so how long before that goes.

 

Before you comment other peoples opinion, be sure you comment it in the correct way.

 

I never used the word 'new'. I love it because it looks good and represent the club I love.

[Wes Tender]

I'd never thought I'd live to see Saints finish fourteenth in the Premier League.

 

That was the kind of of success I could only dream of for the last thirty years. A silly dream, really. Impossible even.

 

Thank you Nicola. Our Dream is real.

 

I had total faith that you of all people could foresee with absolute clarity of vision that from the verge of going out of existence, we would rise like a Phoenix and be back in the Premiership so quickly. And not just back there, but intending to move upwards so ambitiously. Well done. There were many doubters that such a thing could be achieved so quickly, yet you were never one of them.

[funkymojo44]

The reaction to the new home shirt is fascinating.

 

On one hand I quite like the club trying out new designs. If I continue with that optimism you can say that this latest design is an attempt to explore something different, rather than the same boring red and white stripes year after year.

If we did have the same 'template' for every new shirt i.e. red and white stripes, would fans be equally as unhappy for a lack of creativity? I think so. They'd complain about shelling out for a near identical home strip year after year.

 

OK that's me playing devils advocate - personally I dislike this new direction. Sure we've had a sash, one red stripe and various variations before, but there is no doubt that the red and white design is part of the clubs' identity.

 

How would Newcastle fans feel if the club had our Adidas template only black? It would be viewed as an absolutely shocking decision given their clubs' identity to the black and white stripes.

 

Are saints any different? Why should we be? It's part of our identity. Just as it is for Sunderland and Stoke City.

 

All in all, it's only a shirt. And yet we've lost a little part of our identity.

[berkshiresaint]

I have been supporting Saints since 76, most of our greatest feats have been when we were wearing yellow FA cup win 76 runners up 03 etc. I was never worried about what colour we wear and not that bothered about stripes except for the Channon era Admiral strip. As I see it all the club is doing is trying to raise its global appeal as with the majority of clubs in the top tier of all european leagues. If this means changing the strip to an all red one then so be it. I don't particularly like the new home strip, but not because it doesn't have stripes, but because it is a stock kit and not an individual bespoke kit. However saying that as long as the Chairman continues his push for European glory then I am sure we will soon start having better kits to choose from, if these kits are striped then all well and good, but if they are are not then that also is fine by me, as long as the club is successful then I for one will be very happy.

[Stubby]

Yes, there's been some over-reaction.

 

But when I see red and white stripes, I connect with nearly 50 years of wonderful memories, and can get quite emotional. It may be irrational but I feel like I've lost some of my heritage when the lads play in other strips at home.

[Alain Perrin]

Yes, there's been some over-reaction.

 

But when I see red and white stripes, I connect with nearly 50 years of wonderful memories, and can get quite emotional. It may be irrational but I feel like I've lost some of my heritage when the lads play in other strips at home.

 

This is not the time for sound bites..... but I feel the hand of history on my shoulder....

[CB Fry]

I had total faith that you of all people could foresee with absolute clarity of vision that from the verge of going out of existence, we would rise like a Phoenix and be back in the Premiership so quickly. And not just back there, but intending to move upwards so ambitiously. Well done. There were many doubters that such a thing could be achieved so quickly, yet you were never one of them.

 

Hey, I can't help it. I'm a dreamer.

 

I mean. Promotion to the Premier League? For tiny little Southampton?

 

The stuff of fantasy. Promotion to the top flight I know was the preserve of the mega clubs, the giants of football like Watford, Blackpool, Reading, Norwich, Hull and Swansea.

 

Even dreaming we could ever emulate them was just silly. But I couldn't help believing.

 

The impossible is real. I mean, fourteenth as well. Phew.

[Channon's Sideburns]

I had total faith that you of all people could foresee with absolute clarity of vision that from the verge of going out of existence, we would rise like a Phoenix and be back in the Premiership so quickly. And not just back there, but intending to move upwards so ambitiously. Well done. There were many doubters that such a thing could be achieved so quickly, yet you were never one of them.

 

Hey, I can't help it. I'm a dreamer.

 

I mean. Promotion to the Premier League? For tiny little Southampton?

 

The stuff of fantasy. Promotion to the top flight I know was the preserve of the mega clubs, the giants of football like Watford, Blackpool, Reading, Norwich, Hull and Swansea.

 

Even dreaming we could ever emulate them was just silly. But I couldn't help believing.

 

The impossible is real. I mean, fourteenth as well. Phew.

 

Not forgetting of course the 7th place we achieved in the top flight under Chris Nicholl. Let's not forget that....

[CB Fry]

As I see it all the club is doing is trying to raise its global appeal as with the majority of clubs in the top tier of all european leagues.

 

The majority of clubs in the top tier of all European leagues are changing their fundemental kit design to raise their global appeal?

 

You sure about that?

[JustinR]

People are like sheep - in general. Look at the queues outside an Apple Store everytime something gets launched. You see it everywhere.

 

Queuing up outside a Saints shop on a Sunday? That's their right if they want to - would love to hear why they've queued up though. Love the shirt, or just want to be one of the first to buy one??

 

I queued up from about 10am. With my son who loves the kit and wanted to be one of the first. Must admit I wasn't keen but seeing the whole thing on looks pretty good. Way more white than last year.

[JustinR]

For you that already got it. You think there´s any difference in the quality of the shirt material-wise?

 

Much better.

[Wes Tender]

Hey, I can't help it. I'm a dreamer.

 

I mean. Promotion to the Premier League? For tiny little Southampton?

 

The stuff of fantasy. Promotion to the top flight I know was the preserve of the mega clubs, the giants of football like Watford, Blackpool, Reading, Norwich, Hull and Swansea.

 

Even dreaming we could ever emulate them was just silly. But I couldn't help believing.

 

The impossible is real. I mean, fourteenth as well. Phew.

 

Somewhere in your haste to get in your Monday morning dose of snide, you appear to have overlooked the emphasis I placed on the achievement of us getting back to this position so quickly.

 

But I'll humour you. We've been second in the top flight of English football within living memory of many of us on here. So I take it that you're happy to accept that we will be right back there in the near future? You weren't one of those rubbishing Cortese's ambitions for us to be playing CL football then? Not one to ridicule the possibiblity of us breaking into the top four even, although having come second before, that would almost be a failure, wouldn't it?

[BARCELONASAINT]

I must admitt i have no strong feelings one way or the other about our new kit. I have supported the club for over 40 years so i grew up with the red and white stripes and i loved those shirts. I have last seasons predominatly red top and like it and no doubt will get this seasons top....why?...because i support my club and proud to show my allegience to Saints.

Why have the marketing guys gone down the route of of a more predominatly red top.....well my guess it is about the global brand and what they think people will happily wear out in public not just on match days!....Red and White stripes very football to anyone seeing the top.....a all redtop (mostly) and suddenly you just might be going into the grounds of a casual top more acceptable on any occassion...i could be wrong.

I don't believe the club are putting 2 fingers up to the fans or our history....they are making financial decisions with the best interest of the club.

[Wes Tender]

The majority of clubs in the top tier of all European leagues are changing their fundemental kit design to raise their global appeal?

 

You sure about that?

 

Where did he say that?

[OldNick]

I have just watched the video of the sales on Saintsfc. I dont see what the fuss is about, it is football not a fashion show. I suppose if you worry about tradition etc I assume we should have stayed at the Dell and still have the same kit as we had when we were formed.

Stripes are naff anyway, I liked last seasons kit as it is easier to wear away from football. Not that i think middle aged people should wear the kits, I will wear the shorts though as they are not walking adverts for sponsors but still have the club crest on them to show your colours

[pap]

Anyone else thinking of this when you read this thread?

 

 

Yes.

 

Matey missed out on a good season, as I recall.

[Sour Mash]

I have been supporting Saints since 76, most of our greatest feats have been when we were wearing yellow FA cup win 76 runners up 03 etc. I was never worried about what colour we wear and not that bothered about stripes except for the Channon era Admiral strip. As I see it all the club is doing is trying to raise its global appeal as with the majority of clubs in the top tier of all european leagues. If this means changing the strip to an all red one then so be it. I don't particularly like the new home strip, but not because it doesn't have stripes, but because it is a stock kit and not an individual bespoke kit. However saying that as long as the Chairman continues his push for European glory then I am sure we will soon start having better kits to choose from, if these kits are striped then all well and good, but if they are are not then that also is fine by me, as long as the club is successful then I for one will be very happy.

Do you think this choice of kit will help us raise our "Global Profile"?

[berkshiresaint]

The majority of clubs in the top tier of all European leagues are changing their fundemental kit design to raise their global appeal?

 

You sure about that?

 

I really cannot see where I wrote that!

[BARCELONASAINT]

Do you think this choice of kit will help us raise our "Global Profile"?

 

I don't think you be as simplistic as this. You have to look at the club in its entirety and how it has moved forward and is moving forward. Large leaps in the last few seasons, big named players being linked with the club, record signings, our state of the art academy....the club has big ambitions backed by money and a strong leader....the shirt design is but one facet of the overall global profile the club are looking to aquire......look at the big picture rather than things in isolation..........by itself, NO the shirt alone is not enough to raise our global profile but with everything else going on then the shirt becomes a part of a bigger jigsaw.

[berkshiresaint]

Some people really need to remember why we support Saints! Is it because they play in stipes? Is it because they are the greatest football team ever? Or is there another reason?

I support them because they are the greatest football team ever & even if they turned up for a game wearing pants & vest from the lost property box I would still support them.

 

A kit is just a way of differenciating between 2 teams playing a game.

 

Ask yourself why you started supporting Saints & I bet no-one will say "it's because they play in stripes" If people only support Saints because of the stripes then go and support Stoke.

[Sour Mash]

I don't think you be as simplistic as this. You have to look at the club in its entirety and how it has moved forward and is moving forward. Large leaps in the last few seasons, big named players being linked with the club, record signings, our state of the art academy....the club has big ambitions backed by money and a strong leader....the shirt design is but one facet of the overall global profile the club are looking to aquire......look at the big picture rather than things in isolation..........by itself, NO the shirt alone is not enough to raise our global profile but with everything else going on then the shirt becomes a part of a bigger jigsaw.

Ok, to rephrase does this shirt contribute to the increased global profile of the club?

[Sour Mash]

Some people really need to remember why we support Saints! Is it because they play in stipes? Is it because they are the greatest football team ever? Or is there another reason?

I support them because they are the greatest football team ever & even if they turned up for a game wearing pants & vest from the lost property box I would still support them.

 

A kit is just a way of differenciating between 2 teams playing a game.

 

Ask yourself why you started supporting Saints & I bet no-one will say "it's because they play in stripes" If people only support Saints because of the stripes then go and support Stoke.

[Stubby]

This is not the time for sound bites..... but I feel the hand of history on my shoulder....

 

Why would you want to disrespect my memories?

[sydenhamssocks]

I think a lot of the 'kit' upset is caused by the lack of a nod to the tradition of the stripes. Whilst, over the years, our home ground has changed and grown, our playing squad continues to develop, our ownership/backing is of a level we've not experienced in the past and our club is more corporate Image aware. The one thing, as a fan, you still feel close to is the kit.

We all have our favourite players and popular areas of the ground etc, but a replica kit is the one thing you can take home.

It always used to be a proud and important moment when someone recognised your Saints shirt ! Made you feel you represented the club in some way.

The Heritage of any football club is important to all its supporters, but as times change, we have to expect that so will our club, as we strive to be a force in the top league.

Afraid this new kit is not immediately a Saints one to the untrained eye but as the OP said a small explanation from the boss as to why stripes are not figuring would have maybe helped.

As Mr Cortese continues to make all the big decisions on our clubs behalf, it might have been seen as a welcoming idea to engage with the fans over kit style/design ideas.

After all if it is 'only a shirt' what harm could it have done him !

I'm in the over 50's mob and have always liked our stripes and always will.

 

It is an awful kit though !

[Wes Tender]

Ok, to rephrase does this shirt contribute to the increased global profile of the club?

 

Quote: Barcelonasaint:

.....by itself, NO the shirt alone is not enough to raise our global profile but with everything else going on then the shirt becomes a part of a bigger jigsaw.

 

I had no difficulty at all in understanding Barcelonasaint's response.

[pap]

Most of the kit upset is coming from one place; grumpy old men. I sympathise chaps, I really do - I have noticed elements of the grumpy surfacing in this slender 38 year old frame. There are modern things that I do not particularly like, but you just have to get on with it.

 

Can we at least calm fears that the shirt is "all red"?

 

I am not an expert, and did not go to design college, etc - but there are other colours on that shirt, aren't there?

[dubai_phil]

Most of the kit upset is coming from one place; grumpy old men. I sympathise chaps, I really do - I have noticed elements of the grumpy surfacing in this slender 38 year old frame. There are modern things that I do not particularly like, but you just have to get on with it.

 

Can we at least calm fears that the shirt is "all red"?

 

I am not an expert, and did not go to design college, etc - but there are other colours on that shirt, aren't there?

I'm not grumpy about this season's shirt. I have an opinion that I think it is a crock of sh1t.

So personally when I get back this season I won't be buying one.

What I will look to buy is a new Tee Shirt or Polo Shirt. I did like last year's (VERY) Dark Blue SFC T-Shirt and a few of us over here have them. Yeah it is DARK blue, doesn't come close to a skate colour, but I wear it down the pub and it looks good. I'll simply wear some of my HSBC Abu Dhabi Golf Shirts down the pub or when I get back to SMS next season, they are red and show my colour loyalty. Maybe NEXT year we'll have an all red shirt that doesn't look Naff. Maybe not. No Boycott, no NC is an Evil genius. I just won't wear something that looks like sh1t.

[Sour Mash]

Quote: Barcelonasaint:

 

I had no difficulty at all in understanding Barcelonasaint's response.

I don't think you read it properly. But thanks again for your contribution.

[Daren W]

The whole kit argument's a bit tricky, as the link to the kit website on another thread shows, there have been many occasions where we've not played in stripes.

If you'd have gone back to the dark days of administration and asked fans would you play in just red and just survive in League One, most of us would have bitten your hand off for that.

I can live with the kit, I'd prefer stripes but I'm not overly fussed with plain red... My only gripe is the lack of imagination with the design, it's really just a rent a kit design....

[yorkiesaint]

I'm not grumpy about this season's shirt. I have an opinion that I think it is a crock of sh1t.

So personally when I get back this season I won't be buying one.

What I will look to buy is a new Tee Shirt or Polo Shirt. I did like last year's (VERY) Dark Blue SFC T-Shirt and a few of us over here have them. Yeah it is DARK blue, doesn't come close to a skate colour, but I wear it down the pub and it looks good. I'll simply wear some of my HSBC Abu Dhabi Golf Shirts down the pub or when I get back to SMS next season, they are red and show my colour loyalty. Maybe NEXT year we'll have an all red shirt that doesn't look Naff. Maybe not. No Boycott, no NC is an Evil genius. I just won't wear something that looks like sh1t.

 

I had one of those yellow and blue away shirts. Now that looked naff wherever i wore it. I totally agree that football shirts in general look naff unless you are playing football.

 

But seriously, is not the reason us and cardiff are now in red because of all those studies that show that the team in red wins more often:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4559071.stm

 

This is no tin pot science story, it is published in Nature magazine, the world's most prestigious science journal.

[Wes Tender]

I don't think you read it properly. But thanks again for your contribution.

Which bit didn't I read properly? It seems perfectly plain to me. You have asked "does this shirt contribute to the increased global profile of the club"?

Barcelonasaint had already answered that question saying that "no, the shirt alone was not enough to raise our global profile".

 

What's to misunderstand?

[Fan The Flames]

The OP has based his theory on the failed assumption that we have accepted the red shirt because we are in the prem, as though it is part of some grand bargin and we are all fickle corporate zombies who crave a mainstream product and will accept anything served up to us by the powers that be in order to achieve that.

 

Whereas the truth is, most are not tied in to a fixed traditional vision of the kit (Rank Xerox kit being a lot of peoples favorite kit), most people just want a kit that looks good. We have seen that a lot of people will buy any half decent efforts, good for them if thats what they want to spend their hard earned on. It is the matter of concern some people think it is.

[CB Fry]

Which bit didn't I read properly? It seems perfectly plain to me. You have asked "does this shirt contribute to the increased global profile of the club"?

Barcelonasaint had already answered that question saying that "no, the shirt alone was not enough to raise our global profile".

 

What's to misunderstand?

 

 

How about the argument that our shirt colour plays no role whatsoever in our global profile.

 

None at all.

[dubai_phil]

I had one of those yellow and blue away shirts. Now that looked naff wherever i wore it. I totally agree that football shirts in general look naff unless you are playing football.

 

But seriously, is not the reason us and cardiff are now in red because of all those studies that show that the team in red wins more often:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4559071.stm

 

This is no tin pot science story, it is published in Nature magazine, the world's most prestigious science journal.

 

It has been commented on a few times but here is a more detailed experience.

 

While on Honeymoon in "Old Saigon" our tour guide took us to a temple. He explained the layout, what the figures in different positions meant etc which was interesting but not for here.

 

He then paused to pray before leaving and passed us each a small piece of RED paper approx 1cm x 2cm carefully folded into an envelope type shape "To hold good luck for us".

 

Yes there is Science, but to make more sense from the glib "Red is popular in Asia" comments we'd need a lesson in Confuscian (sic??) Theology

 

(ah yes explains a lot about the Gold leaf on the design)

[dinger]

This is what I sent to F365. You'll probably be able to pick holes in the timeline, but it's how I feel about it...

 

"...As a Southampton fan who started going down The Dell in the early 80s, I'd like to respond to Colin (join the facebook group, isn't social media wonderful) Brown with an impassioned, "not really that fussed mate". My earliest memories of Saints are of Danny Wallace, Steve Moran, David Armstrong et al playing sumptuous, incisive football in the glorious 'inverse Ajax' Air Florida shirt. The glory years continued with the formidable 85-87 all red number, and then the balls-out 3/4 up front tactics of Shearer, Rod Wallace, Rideout, Le Tiss, all clad in that spectacular homage to the Danish national shirt; half red, half pinstripe (I remember a school friend showing me the picture in the Echo and being driven wild with childish delight and kit-greed).

 

The change to stripes in late 89 came as a complete shock. Nobody had ever told me this was our 'tradition'. Frankly, it was a disappointment. Loads of teams play in stripes. We looked like Sunderland! Or Stoke! And where's the fun in that? And this reversion to the tedious norm coincided almost exactly with Saints descent into mid-lower-table obscurity, and worse. The years of Branfoot, Merrington, Souness. Dull shirts, dull football, no fun.

 

Recently our brilliant anniversary sash shirt has marked (provoked?) a change in fortunes after the steady stripey decline. And the all-red kit has confirmed our right to top flight eminence. These things can't be coincidence. So I say 'no' to the draining, degrading tyranny of stripes and look forward to many more years of inspired tinkering with tradition."

[Frank's cousin]

Yes, there's been some over-reaction.

 

 

But when I see red and white stripes, I connect with nearly 50 years of wonderful memories, and can get quite emotional. It may be irrational but I feel like I've lost some of my heritage when the lads play in other strips at home.

 

 

 

 

I don't think it's irrational to be emotive about this, after all its the basis of all nostalgia. Two interesting things at play here; I think we tend to place too much emphasis on what we associate with our growing up. For me ironically, Saints memories dominated by Yellow and blue, and the shirt with the thin stripes either side of the thicker stripes ... They years of childhood from the mid to late 70s. It why I can't get all worked up over shirts these days as none will ever get close... Ironically I get the impression that a high number of posters on here feel the same about the xerox Ajax reverse kit... Probably because they are later 30s early 40s and this is the one from their childhood... Those who love that kit but were not even born then probably associate with Keegan and the relative success of those early 80s years.

 

 

... The OP laments the shift, the change etc. Well that is true, but not just at our club... If football is about tribalism and belonging for you, then this change hits harder. If football and saints is about the pure game and how far we can progress, then these things tend to less important. Neither is wrong, right , better or worse than the other, just different attitudes both equally valid to supporting your team.

 

 

NC has not got the balance right ...yet... Maybe he will, maybe he won't. If he does not he will never be a 'friend' to some, no matter what success we might get. But I would add that we are not yet in a position where any deal with a manufacturer is going be all on our terms. If we progress we will command more and have more influence over these things for a bigger return. We don't know the details of the current deal and it could be something as simple as this offering the best terms who knows.

 

the 'global profile' thing is Bol lox. Our profile will be raised through what we achieve if anything and the style we play...end of.

Is a plain shirt more likely to lead to increased sales is the question, easier to sell as for some easier to wear casually? Possibly? No down the marketeers at Adidas and the club will have sat through loads of 'data' of dubious nature to make a BS case plausible, nicely trimmed with marketing speak, but the proof of the pudding will be how many are sold.... Or more likely we have a stock kit simply because No one is that bothered as it contributes about diddly squat percent to the turnover...or simply NC thinks we look naff in stripes... Or wanting to put his own stamp on things...who knows...

 

 

...finally, what is so wrong with NC wanting to stamp his mark on things? If we have success in this era, then in 20 years many will look back on this time with moistened eyes and nostalgic smiles. What a time to be a Saints fan even if the red kits were sheidt! ;-)

[Daren W]

This is what I sent to F365. You'll probably be able to pick holes in the timeline, but it's how I feel about it...

 

"...As a Southampton fan who started going down The Dell in the early 80s, I'd like to respond to Colin (join the facebook group, isn't social media wonderful) Brown with an impassioned, "not really that fussed mate". My earliest memories of Saints are of Danny Wallace, Steve Moran, David Armstrong et al playing sumptuous, incisive football in the glorious 'inverse Ajax' Air Florida shirt. The glory years continued with the formidable 85-87 all red number, and then the balls-out 3/4 up front tactics of Shearer, Rod Wallace, Rideout, Le Tiss, all clad in that spectacular homage to the Danish national shirt; half red, half pinstripe (I remember a school friend showing me the picture in the Echo and being driven wild with childish delight and kit-greed).

 

The change to stripes in late 89 came as a complete shock. Nobody had ever told me this was our 'tradition'. Frankly, it was a disappointment. Loads of teams play in stripes. We looked like Sunderland! Or Stoke! And where's the fun in that? And this reversion to the tedious norm coincided almost exactly with Saints descent into mid-lower-table obscurity, and worse. The years of Branfoot, Merrington, Souness. Dull shirts, dull football, no fun.

 

Recently our brilliant anniversary sash shirt has marked (provoked?) a change in fortunes after the steady stripey decline. And the all-red kit has confirmed our right to top flight eminence. These things can't be coincidence. So I say 'no' to the draining, degrading tyranny of stripes and look forward to many more years of inspired tinkering with tradition."

 

You know, I hadn't thought of that.. We seem to have been "luckier" without stripes... It just goes to show how fragile the argument for/against stripes is.

It's the people wearing the shirt that count, if you won't support them because of the colour of their shirt... well it does make you look a bit shallow, doesn't it?

[dinger]

You know, I hadn't thought of that.. We seem to have been "luckier" without stripes... It just goes to show how fragile the argument for/against stripes is.

It's the people wearing the shirt that count, if you won't support them because of the colour of their shirt... well it does make you look a bit shallow, doesn't it?

 

Absolutely, I'm obviously being a bit tongue in cheek there. But like FC says just above, as supporters we probably have the most affection for what we experienced as kids. For me we play in those 80s kits; anything else (stripes included) is a deviation from the norm. But really Saints could go out in vests and pants for all I care, as long as the players do their best.

[Sour Mash]

This is what I sent to F365. You'll probably be able to pick holes in the timeline, but it's how I feel about it...

 

"...As a Southampton fan who started going down The Dell in the early 80s, I'd like to respond to Colin (join the facebook group, isn't social media wonderful) Brown with an impassioned, "not really that fussed mate". My earliest memories of Saints are of Danny Wallace, Steve Moran, David Armstrong et al playing sumptuous, incisive football in the glorious 'inverse Ajax' Air Florida shirt. The glory years continued with the formidable 85-87 all red number, and then the balls-out 3/4 up front tactics of Shearer, Rod Wallace, Rideout, Le Tiss, all clad in that spectacular homage to the Danish national shirt; half red, half pinstripe (I remember a school friend showing me the picture in the Echo and being driven wild with childish delight and kit-greed).

 

The change to stripes in late 89 came as a complete shock. Nobody had ever told me this was our 'tradition'. Frankly, it was a disappointment. Loads of teams play in stripes. We looked like Sunderland! Or Stoke! And where's the fun in that? And this reversion to the tedious norm coincided almost exactly with Saints descent into mid-lower-table obscurity, and worse. The years of Branfoot, Merrington, Souness. Dull shirts, dull football, no fun.

 

Recently our brilliant anniversary sash shirt has marked (provoked?) a change in fortunes after the steady stripey decline. And the all-red kit has confirmed our right to top flight eminence. These things can't be coincidence. So I say 'no' to the draining, degrading tyranny of stripes and look forward to many more years of inspired tinkering with tradition."

That's all a bit made up isn't? We never played Stoke or Sunderland for most of the last 80s, there was no sky or motd, so that was not really on people's conciousness. And that "change of kit" in '89 coincided with us playing some of the most exciting football in our history, followed up a few years later by Alan Ball's team.

[pap]

That's all a bit made up isn't? We never played Stoke or Sunderland for most of the last 80s, there was no sky or motd, so that was not really on people's conciousness. And that "change of kit" in '89 coincided with us playing some of the most exciting football in our history, followed up a few years later by Alan Ball's team.

 

If, by exciting football, you mean almost sh!tting your pants almost until the final day of the season almost every year (Alan Ball's 10th place excepted), then yes, it was exciting.

 

I prefer the 84 vintage though.

[Sour Mash]

If, by exciting football, you mean almost sh!tting your pants almost until the final day of the season almost every year (Alan Ball's 10th place excepted), then yes, it was exciting.

 

I prefer the 84 vintage though.

But 89/90 being much better and more exciting than 88/89, which is the "changeover" he is talking about I think?

[Channon's Sideburns]

The 'all-red' argument towards 'more successful' teams falls down when you consider Bristol City (tee-hee) and Leyton Orient. Hell, even Fergie had Aberdeen as euro-beaters in the early 80's in all-red.

 

That doesn't EXPLAIN why we've suddenly got the kit choice we have.

 

And the 'Stoke and Sunderland' argument? Doesn't stack up either. For one, both clubs couldn't play in their own home kit when they faced each other, and whose right is it to claim 'red & white stripes' as their own?

 

We were in the top division uninterrupted for longer than those two put together.

 

If it's a purely commercial decision, then bloody say so - that's all I'm asking of Cortese.

 

He doesn't HAVE to tell us (and he probably won't) but it would be a sign of understanding his fanbase (last time I looked on the poll it was 60% who didn't like the kit) if he explained the decision.

 

Before anyone shouts 'what right do you have to ask him to explain?' - well, without the fans, there is no club. Continually ignore those who kept turning up in League One and in time, more of you may start to think differently.

[Grey Crab]

The OP has made a very eloquent statement.

 

B*llocks. Honestly - you are supposed to be an author. Read that opening post again and tell me it is eloquent. It may be something you agree with, but it is NOT eloquent. It would probably get a D grade at GCSE. Eloquent, my arse.

[aintforever]

The change to stripes in late 89 came as a complete shock. Nobody had ever told me this was our 'tradition'.

 

Do you seriously expect anyone to believe that?

 

I suppose if you went to the games on your own, didn't talk to anyone, read any matchday programmes or history books, and didn't watch any television at all you could be unaware we used to play in stripes.

 

Anyway the Keegan kit and the Danish Pyjama's were both still red and white striped shirts with black shorts and white socks. The only kit that wasn't was the David Armstrong red and black corners one. Even that was a red and white shirt with black shorts and white socks. It was an 80's fashion disaster but still an attempt was made to make it look 'Southampton'.

 

I agree with the OP, whilst I'm not that @rsed about buying a replica shirt, I don't like the way the clubs traditions are valued so little by the people that run the club.