What is a realistic signing (aka damned if we damned if we don't)?

[shurlock]

Seeing as the Damiao rumour is likely to go the way of the others, it raises the question of how ambitious we can be without getting ideas above our station.

 

At the same time, the opposite call i.e. to be more realistic seems just as unhelpful for it usually means HCDAFUing players who add only marginal value to the squad while bogging us down in lengthy contracts.

 

Is there a Golidlocks solution out there - who is the most realistic-ambitious player we can go for or is any player that can take us to the next level always going to fall the way of the bigger clubs? Does it mean that we are unable to sign proven, off-the-shelf players and instead forced to take risky punts -possibly Damiao is an example given he's never played in Europe.

[Matthew Le God]

You don't know unless you ask and asking isn't particularly time consuming.

[sentry]

It is down to money, Falcao,Rodreiguez etc just signed for Monaco, a team in the french league, not in Europe, were in league 2 last year, start the season on -2 points, could be damned from the french league next year.

[Saint Charlie]

You don't know unless you ask and asking isn't particularly time consuming.

 

This

[shurlock]

You don't know unless you ask and asking isn't particularly time consuming.

 

The general consensus though is that it is time consuming and a distraction. There is a strong argument that some of the problems that we experienced at the start of the season stemmed from the type of targets we were chasing in the summer. Would be very surprised if Yoshida was our top target rather than a target we hurried back to at the end of the window after our other deals didn't go through. It's also pretty clear that we wanted 2 CBs but ran out of time to bring another in.

Edited 29 June, 2013 by shurlock

[hypochondriac]

If we get any of these mega signings it will be great. Thus far though we haven't signed any of them except lovren who whilst he looks to be a good signing was fourth choice at lyon off the back of a poor season and was not the same class of the others we have been linked with.

[Dig Dig]

The general consensus though is that it is time consuming and a distraction. There is a strong argument that some of the problems that we experienced at the start of the season stemmed from the type of targets we were chasing in the summer.

 

Which ones exactly?

[Batman]

I think we should just accept our level and go for russell martin, clint hill and dean whitehead

[Olallana]

I think we should just accept our level and go for russell martin, clint hill and dean whitehead

 

So, Heitinga or Bramble is pushing it too far I guess then??

[Matthew Le God]

The general consensus though is that it is time consuming and a distraction. There is a strong argument that some of the problems that we experienced at the start of the season stemmed from the type of targets we were chasing in the summer.

 

If it were left to many Saints fans we wouldn't have been signing players with profiles like Gaston Ramirez and Dejan Lovren. Given the number of man hours in the Saints recruitment department it isn't exactly time consuming to make enquiries for a player. If you don't ask, you don't get.

[shurlock]

Which ones exactly?

 

See my edits re. Yoshida. We also wanted a 2nd CB but ran out of time and had to wait till Jan to do our business -something that arguably cost us.

 

If anything, last summer may have provided false comfort - after all, Adkins was still in charge and probably steered us to more realistic targets -one reason why he eventually got the axe.

[Matthew Le God]

See my edits re. Yoshida. We also wanted a 2nd CB but ran out of time and had to wait till Jan to do our business -something that arguably cost us.

 

If anything, last summer may have provided false comfort - after all, Adkins was still in charge and probably steered us to more realistic targets -one reason why he eventually got the axe.

 

Before Saints signed him would you have said Dejan Lovren was a "realistic signing"?

[hypochondriac]

Before Saints signed him would you have said Dejan Lovren was a "realistic signing"?

 

Yes for the reasons already outlined. Fourth choice CB and off the back of a poor season.

[shurlock]

If it were left to many Saints fans we wouldn't have been signing players with profiles like Gaston Ramirez and Dejan Lovren. Given the number of man hours in the Saints recruitment department it isn't exactly time consuming to make enquiries for a player. If you don't ask, you don't get.

 

I would say that the targets we're going for in this window are a step up from Ramirez who has less pedigree in terms of experience and proven success than Osvaldo, Banega etc - partly reflected in the fact that nobody else ultimately bid for him.

 

While the official line is that MP was happy with his squad and didn't need reinforcements in January, we did attempt to go after players but came up short -for instance, the Coutinho rumour was clearly more than tabloid chit chat. And perhaps another attacking would have come in useful when we hit our barren spell in front of goal.

[shurlock]

Yes for the reasons already outlined. Fourth choice CB and off the back of a poor season.

 

Agree. Timing was everything with Louvren, meaning we've paid a hefty for someone with question marks over them.

[Dig Dig]

See my edits re. Yoshida. We also wanted a 2nd CB but ran out of time and had to wait till Jan to do our business -something that arguably cost us.

 

If anything, last summer may have provided false comfort - after all, Adkins was still in charge and probably steered us to more realistic targets -one reason why he eventually got the axe.

 

The CB we didn't sign was supposedly a top player so are you saying Ramirez distracted us from doing that deal? By your logic, surely that CB deal would have distracted us from signing Ramirez? Yoshida was linked a fair few weeks before we signed him. Probably not our no.1 target but a target none the less and one which we signed.

[Sour Mash]

If it were left to many Saints fans we wouldn't have been signing players with profiles like Gaston Ramirez and Dejan Lovren. Given the number of man hours in the Saints recruitment department it isn't exactly time consuming to make enquiries for a player. If you don't ask, you don't get.

It can affect our transfer activity if we're going to sign unrealistic targets; if the player or his current club string us along waiting for a better offer to come in while we're waiting, we miss out on a more realistic option. Not saying that is what is happening, but could be the case.

[tajjuk]

Thing is we have no idea about any of this, the rumours that come out half of them seem to be made up. We've been linked with Naingollan and Osvaldo for ages saying bids have been made but then other people people come out and say we haven't bid.

 

I would reckon by Cortese's handling of most things he tries to keep the information as quiet as possible. All the stuff about Wanyama came out a good two weeks after it had all happened, and really we only started to hear about it because it broke down. So half the time we are getting linked to 'unrealistic' targets by the press and rumour mill, probably by agent's leaking stuff.

 

Generally in transfers these days a buying club will sound out with the player's agent first whether there is possible interest and they probably get an idea about salary etc, you then go from there to agreeing a deal with the selling club, then once you go back to the player to confirm the contract.

 

So for example IF we have bid for Damiao, then then I think there might be some interest on his side for us to make the bid. Like Wanyama though the agent could just be using us to lure bigger clubs into making the bid so the player gets his preferred destination.

 

I reckon Wesley Sneijder ended up at Galatassaray this way. I reckon they contacted the agent, put a massive contract on the table, the agent basically agrees in principle, leaks that Sneijder is ready to leave, Gala have made a bid etc. He then expected the likes of Man Utd or Real Madrid etc. to come and match the bid, but they either didn't or wouldn't take the wages. So Sneijder ends up at a club he probably didn't want to go to but gets to play (which he wasn't at Inter) and still gets his massive wage.

[NickG]

It can affect our transfer activity if we're going to sign unrealistic targets; if the player or his current club string us along waiting for a better offer to come in while we're waiting, we miss out on a more realistic option. Not saying that is what is happening, but could be the case.

 

In my opinion extremely unlikely.

 

Whatever people feel about MP and NC they do not come across as lazy / naive / amateurish.

 

I can't see them deciding they want to recruit for a position, make one offer and chill out.

 

This maybe the case if their is an individual they want, ie someone who they are keen to add to the squad even if the position is not a priority. Perhaps they are happy with CM but saw the Celtic lad as someone they want so are happy to make offer and sit back.

 

If a club are not going to sell, or there is no way a player wants to come here it won't take much time to ask. Things will only take time if there is interest.

 

Two others reasons why I don't think it's a problem:

 

The squad is looking good already for a steady, safe mid table season. It appears we have added a quality player in a weaker position, and player who has played at a high level (higher than us?) at fullback so offers good cover.

 

Lastly, window has ages left and most deals are on last day, teams are not racing ahead.

[Sour Mash]

In my opinion extremely unlikely.

 

Whatever people feel about MP and NC they do not come across as lazy / naive / amateurish.

 

I can't see them deciding they want to recruit for a position, make one offer and chill out.

 

This maybe the case if their is an individual they want, ie someone who they are keen to add to the squad even if the position is not a priority. Perhaps they are happy with CM but saw the Celtic lad as someone they want so are happy to make offer and sit back.

 

If a club are not going to sell, or there is no way a player wants to come here it won't take much time to ask. Things will only take time if there is interest.

 

Two others reasons why I don't think it's a problem:

 

The squad is looking good already for a steady, safe mid table season. It appears we have added a quality player in a weaker position, and player who has played at a high level (higher than us?) at fullback so offers good cover.

 

Lastly, window has ages left and most deals are on last day, teams are not racing ahead.

What do you think happened in last summer's transfer window regarding signing a CB?

[Raging Bull]

Plus the whole market is slow right now.

[NickG]

What do you think happened in last summer's transfer window regarding signing a CB?

 

We signed an international one

 

We may have been holding out for another one but who knows. Many if names we 'missed out on' who were more 'realistic' probably would not have added anything over Jos and Fonte.

 

Maybe we aimed to high but after missing out, lower targets were not worth paying out for?

 

This season is different. We don't want to stand still but we have a premier league squad already. Most still young enough to give cause for optimism that they are likely to improve next season.

 

It appears chairman want top 6 level signings. If they don't sign we aren't in a bad position.

 

Remember only 25 man squad, who from last years will make way for any lower level realistic signings?

[shurlock]

The CB we didn't sign was supposedly a top player so are you saying Ramirez distracted us from doing that deal? By your logic, surely that CB deal would have distracted us from signing Ramirez? Yoshida was linked a fair few weeks before we signed him. Probably not our no.1 target but a target none the less and one which we signed.

 

Perhaps that deal fell through because it was also unrealistic. I don't actually think Ramirez is as high profile a target as this summer's links -how many serious competitors did we have for him? I also think the pragmatism we showed on other signings -Jrod, Clyne, Davis (the Adkins effect?) gave us more wriggle room later on.

 

My question is as much given where we are what is the most ambitious target we can realistically hope to get? Simply responding if you don't ask you don't get is bit of a cop out.

[SaintBobby]

I wonder if getting one or two superstar signings opens the floodgate to getting others.

 

eg. If we got Leandro and/or Bangua might it be easier to get other top players to follow.

 

Or does it just bankrupt us?