Policy

[70's Mike]

Has there been a change in policy at SMS.

I believed that the plan was to bring young players into the first team from the academy but the current transfer policy, appears to be to buy in young players.

Has the policy to finish in top 4 become the driving force and will we see a gradual decline in players coming through the ranks to achieve that aim?

[ALWAYS_SFC]

I think it will be mixture of both

[hypochondriac]

No I think the policy was that we would give young players a chance. We have done so.

[70's Mike]

No I think the policy was that we would give young players a chance. We have done so.

 

but is that not to be the case in the future

[Batman]

but is that not to be the case in the future

 

If they are good enough, I should imagine

[Turkish]

You win nothing with kids.

[hypochondriac]

but is that not to be the case in the future

 

I imagine they will get a chance. They have to be good enough though, look at shaw and lallana and jwp as proof this year.

[Matthew Le God]

Has there been a change in policy at SMS.

I believed that the plan was to bring young players into the first team from the academy but the current transfer policy, appears to be to buy in young players.

Has the policy to finish in top 4 become the driving force and will we see a gradual decline in players coming through the ranks to achieve that aim?

 

If Saints solely relied on academy products last season and this season and didn't buy anyone, we'd likely be relegated. The policy in the coming years will likely be a mixture of signing young promising players like Ramirez, Lovren, Rodriguez, Clyne etc and combining it with academy products like Lallana, Shaw and Ward-Prowse.

[Saint Fan CaM]

As has been said above, we have seen a mix of both incoming youngsters and home-grown, but they've got to be good enough. Some the problem currently is that we've come up from L1 too quickly for top, top youngsters to bleed through the system. There are some waiting in the wings I believe and their time will come, but there's a small matter of ensuring we bridge the gap until they're ready and improve the squad we have. We can either do that with aging journeymen or very good youngsters...you do the math.

[Olallana]

It´s natural progress and how can we keep players like Luke Shaw at the club in the longterm?

By progressing our first team, otherwise they will go. And unfortunately the risk is big that we will lose Luke cause we wont probably progress enough in a year, even though we shall dream about it.

 

And the target to have 50% homegrown players should be looked at as a target in 8-10 years I think. You cant expect to have players coming out of the academy be good enough for premier league every year. Last year we were blessed with two players, Luke and JWP, but we will surely also have years with no players getting into the first team squad and make a contribution. We need patience with this target and hopefully we can come close but at the same time the first team need to progress to keep those players at the club.

 

Do anyone really think all the great players from the academy in Barcelona would have stayed there if they were a midtable team in Spain?

[PhilippineSaint]

As has been said above, we have seen a mix of both incoming youngsters and home-grown, but they've got to be good enough. Some the problem currently is that we've come up from L1 too quickly for top, top youngsters to bleed through the system. There are some waiting in the wings I believe and their time will come, but there's a small matter of ensuring we bridge the gap until they're ready and improve the squad we have. We can either do that with aging journeymen or very good youngsters...you do the math.

 

This is about right why go the Pompey way and employing the big earners on there last foray into the battle which will eventually sink you like the Mary Rose, when you can get some youngsters who are already good enough and some of the trainees through to do the job for you.

 

NB where do they get these adverts from I might have to stump up a fiver just to stop being offered menstrual cramp cures

[EastleighSoulBoy]

As has been said above, we have seen a mix of both incoming youngsters and home-grown, but they've got to be good enough. Some the problem currently is that we've come up from L1 too quickly for top, top youngsters to bleed through the system. There are some waiting in the wings I believe and their time will come, but there's a small matter of ensuring we bridge the gap until they're ready and improve the squad we have. We can either do that with aging journeymen or very good youngsters...you do the math.

 

Within a space of time, which I can't gauge exactly, our youth products, Luke Shaw etc, will become the experienced heads who will be there to bring on our own youth product. Currently we don't really have enough in that age group, with the experience, to do that so we are buying them in, at their (almost) prime. I think the idea is that within a few years we will be self sustaining to a decent level. With, hopefully, a successful club which will encourage young lads to want to play for us.

[Toadhall Saint]

We could be buying these players as we do not see enough coming through in the next 3-4 years

[tajjuk]

The youngsters will get a chance I'm sure just like Shaw and James Ward Prowse have. What people have to remember is that not every 17/18 year old is ready to play premiership football. We shouldn't worry if some of these players haven't established themselves straight away. We've been kind of spoiled in recent years with these 16/17 year olds instantly making an impact in the first team. Then likes of Seagar, Targett may take a few more seasons but I don;t think we have just abandoned the policy.

[The Kraken]

The whole "policy" of having half a squad full of academy graduates is a pipe-dream anyway. A great ambition to have, but neither a ground-breaking one (every PL would like to do it if they could) nor a terribly realistic one. A PL bench with 7 players gives a squad size of 18, that means at any time we'd need 9 players good enough to play for the first team. Even to fill half a team we'd need 5 of 6 academy grads; a very tough ask at any time. But then I think the talk of the "policy" was just talk anyway. Saints have always had an excellent history down the decades of bringing youth team players through, a continuation of that would be just fine.

[DuncanRG]

The whole "policy" of having half a squad full of academy graduates is a pipe-dream anyway. A great ambition to have, but neither a ground-breaking one (every PL would like to do it if they could) nor a terribly realistic one. A PL bench with 7 players gives a squad size of 18, that means at any time we'd need 9 players good enough to play for the first team. Even to fill half a team we'd need 5 of 6 academy grads; a very tough ask at any time. But then I think the talk of the "policy" was just talk anyway. Saints have always had an excellent history down the decades of bringing youth team players through, a continuation of that would be just fine.

 

You've misunderstood the 50% figure - they actually said they want 50% of academy graduates to make it into the first team, rather than half of the first team being graduates if that makes sense. I thought the same for a long time!

[The Kraken]

You've misunderstood the 50% figure - they actually said they want 50% of academy graduates to make it into the first team, rather than half of the first team being graduates if that makes sense. I thought the same for a long time!

Kind of a pointless stat then, really. To "graduate" from the academy it means that you've been through the youth team and then been selected first team squad through that. So "graduation" in itself is the art of being selected for the first team squad. Unless they're saying they want half the Under 18 team to "graduate", its pretty much unquantifiable.

[The Kraken]

You've misunderstood the 50% figure - they actually said they want 50% of academy graduates to make it into the first team, rather than half of the first team being graduates if that makes sense. I thought the same for a long time!

 

And these were the words from Les Reed in 2011, so I think the original sentiment was actually correct. "We’ve got an ambition to be not just a Premier League club but a competitive Premier League club,’ says Reed. ‘If we want half our team to come from the academy, which we do, the recruitment needs to be the best, and the development plan for each individual needs to be excellent, as do the facilities, the sports science and the technical quality of the coaching."

[ant]

You could also argue that in order to keep our best graduates such as Shaw we need to secure higher finishing positions in the league. That being the case, buying in quality now could be seen as a stop-gap until the club is more able to sustain itself.

[SaintBobby]

Seems to me like the plan is actually on track, but will take some time to come to fruition.

 

If we produce just one academy graduate a year capable of breaking into the first team, it's not unreasonable to expect half of the squad to be graduates of the academy in 5 or 6 years time.

 

Of course, we may face retention problems with some of the real gems, but I imagine the Cortese plan is to make a better fist of keeping the Walcotts, Bales and Chamberlains, which is obviously more feasible in the PL.

 

Additionally, some youngsters might "break into the first team" without really becoming an integral part of it. Lallana has managed it. So has Shaw. JW-P? Looks promising, but am only about 50-50 as to whether he will become a regular starting player in future. Ben Reeves has fallen short, as has Sam Hoskins. Calum Chambers? Who knows? Jury is also out on Jack Stephens.

 

Nevertheless, I can well imagine that in 5 years time, an average of 9 of our 18 man squad will be academy products. It at least seems something worth aspiring to.

[eelpie]

If Saints solely relied on academy products last season and this season and didn't buy anyone, we'd likely be relegated. The policy in the coming years will likely be a mixture of signing young promising players like Ramirez, Lovren, Rodriguez, Clyne etc and combining it with academy products like Lallana, Shaw and Ward-Prowse.

 

Some on this forum have suggested that JWP should go out on loan, which would be worrying if that were to become a consensus view. He is young and talented and deserves to experience more Premiership games, which is always a risk but one worth taking. How the club nurtures the youth is going to be very interesting. We don't want the best of them to seek other clubs because they feel they are not getting games, neither do we want to play anything other than the best players that we need to bring into the club. This is going to be a particularly fascinating season.

[CB Fry]

Nevertheless, I can well imagine that in 5 years time, an average of 9 of our 18 man squad will be academy products. It at least seems something worth aspiring to.

 

Imagine away. Aspire away. Pretty much no chance of it happening.

 

Unless we are back in the Championship by then, and skint. Which is possible I suppose.

[DuncanRG]

And these were the words from Les Reed in 2011, so I think the original sentiment was actually correct. "We’ve got an ambition to be not just a Premier League club but a competitive Premier League club,’ says Reed. ‘If we want half our team to come from the academy, which we do, the recruitment needs to be the best, and the development plan for each individual needs to be excellent, as do the facilities, the sports science and the technical quality of the coaching."

 

Ah, had never seen that quote. Seems somebody's misspoken then.

[SaintBobby]

Imagine away. Aspire away. Pretty much no chance of it happening.

 

Unless we are back in the Championship by then, and skint. Which is possible I suppose.

 

Is it really so fanciful that we can create and retain one Premiership quality player from the academy each year?

 

Not easy, but not far off what we have been turning out (although harder to retain them in the Championship, surely?)

[Faz]

Well, if we'd managed to keep Walcott, Bale and Chamberlain, then 5 of the current first team would be Academy Graduates. It's not so far fetched is it? It does rely on holding on to our best product though.

[The Kraken]

Well, if we'd managed to keep Walcott, Bale and Chamberlain, then 5 of the current first team would be Academy Graduates. It's not so far fetched is it? It does rely on holding on to our best product though.

So we only had to keep hold of £80M rated Gareth Bale. And England stars Walcott and Chamberlayne. So close.

[SaintBobby]

So we only had to keep hold of £80M rated Gareth Bale. And England stars Walcott and Chamberlayne. So close.

 

It's true that some of our academy products have been too good.

 

Mind you if the retention scheme doesn't work because we are selling such players for £10m-£20m, I guess I could live with that,

[The Kraken]

It's true that some of our academy products have been too good.

 

Mind you if the retention scheme doesn't work because we are selling such players for £10m-£20m, I guess I could live with that,

And I've got no problem with that way of thinking. Look at the current batch of Saints graduates and your "1 a year" assertion isn't too far off. Its been a really good turnaround of players. Expecting us to hold onto those players? Much more difficult. As soon as top 4, Champions league clubs come in we're really, really up against it. And it will be the exception rather than the norm if we can keep those at bay. We've had a brilliant youth system for many years, if we can just look to continue and develop that I'd be absolutely delighted. Putting limits and unrealistic targets on it is a bit pointless IMO.

[DuncanRG]

The important thing is getting these top youngsters on long contracts. Player power is immense these days but when a kid has a 5-year contract he cannot leave for another club when he pleases. That's why Shaw signing in July is such a big deal - if he doesn't go anywhere this summer then he won't go next summer or the summer after, unless the club wants to sell.

[SaintBobby]

And I've got no problem with that way of thinking. Look at the current batch of Saints graduates and your "1 a year" assertion isn't too far off. Its been a really good turnaround of players. Expecting us to hold onto those players? Much more difficult. As soon as top 4, Champions league clubs come in we're really, really up against it. And it will be the exception rather than the norm if we can keep those at bay. We've had a brilliant youth system for many years, if we can just look to continue and develop that I'd be absolutely delighted. Putting limits and unrealistic targets on it is a bit pointless IMO.

 

I wonder.

 

You're right of course that top, top players will be attracted to the CL clubs. I mean, geees, Spurs now look like too small a club for Bale.

 

But we did lose all three of those players while we were out of the Premier League. Perhaps we could have kept them a little longer at least if we had been in the top flight, as we are now.

[Olallana]

I wonder.

 

You're right of course that top, top players will be attracted to the CL clubs. I mean, geees, Spurs now look like too small a club for Bale.

 

But we did lose all three of those players while we were out of the Premier League. Perhaps we could have kept them a little longer at least if we had been in the top flight, as we are now.

 

True and if we would´ve been in PL at the time, imagine what they would´ve cost then to buy....

[hasper57saint]

If you look at the 'economics' of bringing in 'Youth' then it all makes sense. Very good youngsters don't demand such high wages as very good Seniors (above 26) I'm a little concerned with the number of foreign players being brought in but maybe they are 'economical' too. I'm sure the Don knows what he's doing.

[The Kraken]

I wonder.

 

You're right of course that top, top players will be attracted to the CL clubs. I mean, geees, Spurs now look like too small a club for Bale.

 

But we did lose all three of those players while we were out of the Premier League. Perhaps we could have kept them a little longer at least if we had been in the top flight, as we are now.

Luke Shaw will the latest acid test. If we can keep him until he's in his 20s then we might be onto something. Anyway for me its a little irrelevant trying to stave off the big boys; its making sure we don't lose players to the tier two type sides such as Everton, Newcastle, Villa and previously Sunderland. We've lost the likes of Beattie, Kachloul etc to those clubs in the past, if we can cut that out as being seen by the player as a significant upwards move then that'll have more benefit in fighting a losing battle against the top 4.

[scotty]

I wonder.

 

You're right of course that top, top players will be attracted to the CL clubs. I mean, geees, Bale now looks like too big a club for Spurs.

edited it for you.