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Victor Wanyama - Officially Signed

patred44

By patred44,
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Sour Mash

Sour Mash

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I dont understand all this Celtic is a "big" club - history maybe - but if your a player you would i think like to test yourself, the celtic players have no real test each week its a bit like the current Man U team playing in our League 2 - Ole Victor is going to commence battle each week with a real test of his skills every Saturday in the EPL
None of that stops them being a big club does it.
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Sour Mash

Sour Mash

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This is the same John Hartson who left Celtic for then Championship team West Brom. Pot, meet kettle.

 

How he's become a pundit I don't know. At least Wanyama is joining a 'bottom 6' Premier League club rather than a then top 6 Championship club.

 

Bellend.

Why is he a bellend?
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B Rabbit

B Rabbit

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Well you could say the same about PFC then if it is based upon fans and support - for me just dont see it ,they are the biggest club in one of the smallest leagues and the Barca game is a one off in comparrision to who they trot out and play week in and week out

 

That makes no sense at all..Celtic have hundreds of thousands of fans around the world... they average about 50,000 a week and travel very well..and in huge numbers for European games abroad... pompey get about 17,000 on a good day and travel like any normal sized mid range English club.

 

As said above they are a massive massive club...they are just in a poor league

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qwertySFC

qwertySFC

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The only reason Celtic make the CL is due to the level of opposition in their respective league - if the Hampshire Football Association had the same level of access Saints would be there year in and year out - Big club in a tiny puddle of water really

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Sour Mash

Sour Mash

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The only reason Celtic make the CL is due to the level of opposition in their respective league - if the Hampshire Football Association had the same level of access Saints would be there year in and year out - Big club in a tiny puddle of water really
So you now agree they are a big club?
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CB Fry

CB Fry

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He was 31 meaning he'd spent the pinnacle of his career banging in goals in a poor division. Even Hooper has already very nearly equalled his goals tally in less games at the age of 25 and now he's looking to leave to further his career in England. Scotland is a decent stepping stone. At least Wanyama is looking to further his career early rather than waste another 2/3 seasons.

 

Anyway, I do apologise, whilst at the age of 22, Hartson was playing for the mighty West Ham who finished 8th in the Premier League, where Leeds, Blackburn and Villa all finished above them. His career hardly went up after leaving West Ham did it? Victor will leave us to a higher team, I'm sure of it judging by Celtic fans comments and videos I've seen. Hartson went downhill with Celtic being the only highlight.

 

 

What point are you making here? Apart from a very classy bit of sneering at a team finishing eighth in the Premier League. Finishing eighth completely beneath a European Megaclub like Saints.

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View From The Top

View From The Top

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The only reason Celtic make the CL is due to the level of opposition in their respective league - if the Hampshire Football Association had the same level of access Saints would be there year in and year out - Big club in a tiny puddle of water really

 

Anyone who doesn't understand what huge clubs both Rangers & Celtic are doesn't really understand football.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

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Celtic are huge, they're a monster of a club. There's no point debating that.

 

The issue is the league the play in and the money they're (not) able to generate. That's how we're being given the opportunity to such a good player.

 

Personally, I wouldn't be expecting us to be battling relegation though. If we are, I'm not sure MP will be around for long......I think we've got big idea's for this season. We will surprise a few I reckon.

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farawaysaint

farawaysaint

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If you think Celtic are a small club, you're wrong. If they were in the English leagues with the resources we get, they'd be a top top club. They're just unfortunate that they play in a terrible league.

 

Man U, City, Chelsea, (with Mourinho) would finish above them for sure; Arsenal, Spurs and Everton are by no means guaranteed. Liverpool they would probably thump so they'd be a Champions League competitor much as it pains me to admit it.

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

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Think it's obvious that as a club Celtic are way bigger, (if size is your thing...) in all aspects, fan base, history etc...but what Hartson fails to appreciate is that you don't need to be a bigger club to progress your career, just one in a more competitive and globally bigger league. VW, will have chance to show what he can do week in week out against better opposition. How long he stays will depend on whether we get any success/progress and thus can pay him more and attract additional quality.

 

So Hartson is right about club size, but completely wrong to state it's a wrong move. We are a richer club than Celtic, in a better, more competitive league, offering him a better salary, which makes us 'bigger' in the only criteria that matter in these things.

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Pilchards

Pilchards

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Celtic are huge, they're a monster of a club. There's no point debating that.

 

The issue is the league the play in and the money they're (not) able to generate. That's how we're being given the opportunity to such a good player.

 

Personally, I wouldn't be expecting us to be battling relegation though. If we are, I'm not sure MP will be around for long......I think we've got big idea's for this season. We will surprise a few I reckon.

 

Every point well said.

 

I do feel sorry for Celtic when then travel to teams like Dundee etc on a weekly basis, it almost gets to the point that you get bored of winning.

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St Jim

St Jim

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43 pages on a player that hasn't been confirmed as signed yet. Are we breaking a record? What page did Gaston sign?

 

As for the Celtic big club argument, they are a massive club in a tinpot league. A shark in a pond is still a shark.

 

If Celtic joined the EPL IMO they'd struggle to make a big impact in their first few years but once they were established and were able to reassess their weaker areas of their squad they'd certainly be challenging for Europe.

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

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Every point well said.

 

I do feel sorry for Celtic when then travel to teams like Dundee etc on a weekly basis, it almost gets to the point that you get bored of winning.

 

Its why they almost wish Rangers were back up already, as at least they got 4 games and the European games. Think the Spl and sfl rejoining is good, but as with England, they should really not have so many professional clubs - 2 pro divisions of 16 would be better for them

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Turkish

Turkish

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Not yet no. But that was not the point. He asked if maybe the club backed down. I simply pointed out we don't really have a history of that do we?

 

And you said it was clear the agent backed down, no evidence of that either, so you made it up. There is little to no evidence of agents ever backing down and with a month and half of the transfer window left he could easily have for Wanyama a move elsewhere, if he's that good of course. What is suggests is that a compromise was reached, like we did with Ramirez. (Supposedly)

Edited by Turkish
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Turkish

Turkish

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He was 31 meaning he'd spent the pinnacle of his career banging in goals in a poor division. Even Hooper has already very nearly equalled his goals tally in less games at the age of 25 and now he's looking to leave to further his career in England. Scotland is a decent stepping stone. At least Wanyama is looking to further his career early rather than waste another 2/3 seasons.

 

Anyway, I do apologise, whilst at the age of 22, Hartson was playing for the mighty West Ham who finished 8th in the Premier League, where Leeds, Blackburn and Villa all finished above them. His career hardly went up after leaving West Ham did it? Victor will leave us to a higher team, I'm sure of it judging by Celtic fans comments and videos I've seen. Hartson went downhill with Celtic being the only highlight.

 

So you're having a go at Hartson for playing for a club that finished in the same position as our best ever premier league finish, yes?

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angelman

angelman

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Whoever think Celtic aren't a big club are a little deluded.

 

Financially: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-wiped-out-bank-debt-1703944 which is pretty good considering they don't have the EPL TV deal.

 

 

However, Hartson like the rest of the media, have the blinkers on, while I have rose tinted glasses on. They all seem to think that the top of the PL is a closed shop and that only Man U/C, Arse, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool & Everton can fill the top 6 spots. Anyone else who might think about breaking into the top six are thought of as being fanciful and unrealistic. We aren't alone in being treated like this, and to be honest if I supported Newcastle or WHU, who are bigger than us (esp Newcastle) I would find this attitude even more tiresome. So if all these pundits approach the EPL top 6 as being a closed shop restricted to say the 7 clubs mentioned, then the transfer probably doesn't make any sense. But if you sign up to NC's vision, then the move makes a lot more sense.

 

I really, really hope that we do well this season, not just because I am Saints, but to stick two fingers up at all those pundits who consider that the PL consists of, and let's be realistic, 6 teams (as Everton can be dropped of) with the rest just there to make up numbers. The pundits may well be proved right, but it is the attitude that is wholly wrong and has come about since Sky/PL came about and to me has ruined football.

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KelvinsRightGlove

KelvinsRightGlove

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Yeah Celtic are a big club, but it counts for nothing really.

 

They won the European cup? So what? That was about 25 years before VW was born. Notts Forest won it too, big players are in no rush to join them.

 

As has been said, it's pointless being such a big club in such a small league.

 

Hartson talks about adulation etc, but lets remember the stage VE will be playing on next season, the most watched league in the world, by some distance.

 

If Hartsons inability to join up his thinking, I.e. big budget + quality signings = staying a relegation battling club FOREVER, doesn't show his lack of understanding, watch him on tele and see him be unable to say penalty.

 

He's clueless.

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Sour Mash

Sour Mash

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Yeah Celtic are a big club, but it counts for nothing really.

 

They won the European cup? So what? That was about 25 years before VW was born. Notts Forest won it too, big players are in no rush to join them.

 

As has been said, it's pointless being such a big club in such a small league.

 

Hartson talks about adulation etc, but lets remember the stage VE will be playing on next season, the most watched league in the world, by some distance.

 

If Hartsons inability to join up his thinking, I.e. big budget + quality signings = staying a relegation battling club FOREVER, doesn't show his lack of understanding, watch him on tele and see him be unable to say penalty.

 

He's clueless.

When did Forest last get to the knock out stages of the Champions League, win their own league, play in front of home crowds of 60k, have a worldwide fan base of millions?
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simo

simo

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I couldn't care less what size club Celtic are and obviously neither do players how many great players have they signed lately ? Once a player is recognised as a good player they want to leave says it all in my book !

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Special K

Special K

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If Celtic had been admitted to the PL from its inception in '92 they'd have been champions a good few times I reckon. Huge club, great history and from the fans i've met, top lads too. VW is coming for the PL, the money and the sunshine. But he's not coming for a step up in his career that's for sure - scored against Barca in a victory in the CL last year, so coming to Saints is not going to top that. But i couldn't care less. Seems like a good player and that's all that counts.

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Junction 9

Junction 9

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When did Forest last get to the knock out stages of the Champions League, win their own league, play in front of home crowds of 60k, have a worldwide fan base of millions?

 

Have a look at their average home attendances up to the mid 90s, less than 20k for most of their history. They get a huge crowd for an old firm game and that's it. Currently 46K average.

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Wiggles31

Wiggles31

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Celtic are a massive club but apart from being a big club they have a team that would certainly be relegation fodder in the PL especially now without their best player we’ve just pinched. Hartson is talking utter tripe and comes across as a complete bitter old dinosaur. Yet another cack pundit to ruin MOTD.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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Posted (edited)
Celtic are a massive club but apart from being a big club they have a team that would certainly be relegation fodder in the PL especially now without their best player we’ve just pinched. Hartson is talking utter tripe and comes across as a complete bitter old dinosaur. Yet another cack pundit to ruin MOTD.

 

They made the last 16 of the Champions League last season. Not many "PL relegation fodder" teams would manage that.

 

Give them access to Premier League TV money, sponsorship deals, appeal of the EPL to get players, sell out domestic crowds with higher ticket prices and they'd be competing for Champions League spots in England. Plus they'd also attract foreign investment. As long as they play in Scotland they are stunted and smaller teams like Saints are more attractive to their players. Not saying we are a bigger club, of course not but more attractive due to circumstance as the Wanyama deal highlights.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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Minty

Minty

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As a couple of people have mentioned above, whether Celtic are a big club or not is a pointless debate... what the Hartson article prompts is a discussion about what is best for Wanyama, and whether Saints are likely to be in the bottom 6 next year as he seems to think.

 

Clearly most of us would expect us to not be near the bottom 6 next season, especially Cortese. If we are, Pochettino will be off I have no doubt.

 

As for Wanyama, it all makes perfect sense to me. Clearly we're not in Europe, and we may not be next season either, but by coming to us he is getting the chance to play week in, week out, against a higher overall standard of opposition. 6(I think) of our League opponents will be playing in Europe, and either he helps us to move up the league, or, if he continues his own development, he gains an even better reputation and would no doubt earn a move to a higher placed club in a couple of years if we don't live up to our expectations.

 

Hartson would do well to consider all that. Comparing clubs directly, most players would choose Celtic, but when you consider the league, the opposition, the exposure and the future opportunities, he has made (or rather, is about to make) a very good move.

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Sour Mash

Sour Mash

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Have a look at their average home attendances up to the mid 90s, less than 20k for most of their history. They get a huge crowd for an old firm game and that's it. Currently 46K average.
Your post doesn't make sense. They didn't play any old firm games last season, yet still averaged 46k and had crowds close to 60k.
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southamptonbairn

southamptonbairn

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Hartson is a complete ar$e as a pundit. I will always remember him for his comments when Koki Mizuno scored his first senior goal for Celtic v Falkirk. He said something like "this kid will remember this for the rest of his life, his first senior goal. You never forget things like that. Terry Butcher his co pundit asked, "who did you score your first senior goal against John? " and the areshole replied, "You know, I can't remember now!"

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Saint Charlie

Saint Charlie

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Anyway, back to Wanyama...

 

Good to get two players signed early, that will presumably go straight into our first XI. I think we are learning the lessons of last summer, definitely good to get players in to feature in at least some of the friendlies - especially with a decent run of fixtures at the start.

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Ed Rooney

Ed Rooney

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Celtic are massive massive club with a history to match, in a ****e ****e league but they are known in most of the world due to CL appearances. John Hartson clearly has not seen the DVD or is aware of the futures ambitions of Saints and therefore his comments are based on lack of information. SPL is a ****e league and if you are regarded up there as a top player and you think yourself as a top player, unfortunately you will always have a question mark over your ability due to the standard you play in. Hence why regarded top players leave SPL for better leagues, this also sees Older players that can no longer cut it in the better leagues move to SPL and do well.

 

Celtic big club yes and players enjoy playing there ( when at home) however I am sure VW will not miss playing in front of 4000 gates.

 

I am shocked as a ex player Hartson has been so blinkered to suggest a footballer shouldn't move to another club who have less support at home, which is essentially what he is saying.

 

Yes they play in Champs League BUT they usually go out early so in general they only actually play a handful of CL games. Not a basis as a player to stay at a club just for CL football. Plus they play each other about 4 times in a season so must be bored ****less.

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Big Bad Bob

Big Bad Bob

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Your post doesn't make sense. They didn't play any old firm games last season, yet still averaged 46k and had crowds close to 60k.

 

http://www.fitbastats.com/celtic/club_records_league_attendance.php

 

Strangely enough their highest attendances came after they had won the league??

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_Celtic_F.C._season

 

Considering that they had sold ~40k it appears that they don't have that many 'casual' fans

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Olallana

Olallana

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Threads like this is why I think it´s better with more specific threads and not to merge threads into one very general thread....

 

If it was it´s own thread "John Hartsons take on Wanyama move" everyone interested in that could discuss it in that specific thread and we could have a thread here about Wanyama instead of getting the thread destroyed by discussing the size of two different football clubs, in different countries etc etc etc...

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Cabrone

Cabrone

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Whilst I get what Hartson's saying he doesn't seem to get the bigger picture.

 

Wanyama will probably sign up for 4 years and if he's any good in the prem be moved on in 1 or 2.

 

Celtic get a pile of cash, we get an exciting player, the player gets experience against some of the world's best players + SFC's considerable experience in developing youth + a regular appearance in a global shop window and SFC gets a big fat transfer fee in the next couple of years.

 

If it all works well then everyone's a winner.

 

Any player with ambition will want to leave Scotland sooner rather than later regardless of the fact that Celtic are a huge club.

 

That's where Hartson doesn't get it.

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