Victor Wanyama - Officially Signed

[tajjuk]

No pay rise for two years

 

No wonder he has to live in Scotland.

 

Celtic offered him a new contract, which would have tripled his wages but he turned it down. That's what the Celtic fans are saying on that forum, in between arguing with MLG obviously!

[Giordano]

Celtic offered him a new contract, which would have tripled his wages but he turned it down. That's what the Celtic fans are saying on that forum, in between arguing with MLG obviously!

What would you say £900k 19/20year old from Beerschop was on at Celtic then? £10k/week? Trebling it to £30k/week not unrealistic at Celtic. What would Saints be offering - £40-£50k/week?

[Wade Garrett]

I reckon he'd be trouble. I don't think it will happen anyway, now they've put it in the public domain. Not Cortese's style.

[.comsaint]

I reckon he'd be trouble. I don't think it will happen anyway, now they've put it in the public domain. Not Cortese's style.

 

Agree. Steer clear. His agent sounds like a right arzehole & mentions nothing in the SKY article other than £££money£££. No surprise there then.

[egg]

So you're saying Ramirez lied then?

 

Who did he say this to? Is it reported anywhere?

 

Fwiw I'd be surprised if our max pay is below 50k gross pw. We were stupidly good payers in league 1 where the likes of Aaron Martin were on very good money and many players were on double money on promotion.

[tajjuk]

What would you say £900k 19/20year old from Beerschop was on at Celtic then? £10k/week? Trebling it to £30k/week not unrealistic at Celtic. What would Saints be offering - £40-£50k/week?

 

Celtic fans saying he was on around £2k at Beerschot, then around £7k a week with them and was offered around £25k a week to stay which is on about par with their other top earners.

 

So yeh, I reckon we are offering him around the £40-45k margin. I rekcon his agents are trying to get the £65k a week area, probably because stupid QPR probably said they would pay him that much seeing as they pay the likes of Barton and Onouha that amount.

[Turkish]

Who did he say this to? Is it reported anywhere?

 

Fwiw I'd be surprised if our max pay is below 50k gross pw. We were stupidly good payers in league 1 where the likes of Aaron Martin were on very good money and many players were on double money on promotion.

 

Direct quote here. But it's alright because Road Saints said he knows for a fact that no one earns this at Saints so Ramirez must have been lying.

 

http://www.insidefutbol.com/2012/08/17/they-will-pay-me-so-much-money-liverpool-target-gaston-ramirez-set-for-southampton/67264/

[sotonist]

Direct quote here. But it's alright because Road Saints said he knows for a fact that no one earns this at Saints so Ramirez must have been lying.

 

http://www.insidefutbol.com/2012/08/17/they-will-pay-me-so-much-money-liverpool-target-gaston-ramirez-set-for-southampton/67264/

 

the exchange rate on the day of the article was GBP 0.7846101556 to EUR 1

 

crudely using 60% as the tax rate i make that

 

2*0.7846101556/.6/52*1000000=50295.52

 

thats more than 50k. i'm outraged.

[Turkish]

the exchange rate on the day of the article was GBP 0.7846101556 to EUR 1

 

crudely using 60% as the tax rate i make that

 

2*0.7846101556/.6/52*1000000=50295.52

 

thats more than 50k. i'm outraged.

 

do your sums properly or use the PAYE tax calculator, it actually works out at betwen £65-£70k a week, before his 1m euro signing on fee and why are you outraged? No one else is, just pointing out that is isn't a FACT that none of our squad earn more than £50k a week, either that or ramirez made up his wages and lied about them.

Edited 25 June, 2013 by Turkish

[sotonist]

or even 40% as the rate of tax.

 

**** forgot highest rate of tax...

 

2000000*0.7846101556/.5/52=60354.6273538

 

is that right?

[tajjuk]

the exchange rate on the day of the article was GBP 0.7846101556 to EUR 1

 

crudely using 60% as the tax rate i make that

 

2*0.7846101556/.6/52*1000000=50295.52

 

thats more than 50k. i'm outraged.

 

before Turkish corrects you.........

 

I'm sure we went through this before and it made his wage around £65k a week.

 

However as Trousers pointed out the original source article for that interview put the figure in brackets suggesting Gaston didn't actually say how much Saints were offering him and the newspaper sourced that information from elsewhere or speculated it.

 

So Gaston wasn't lying because he probably never stated the actual figure, nor does virtually any footballer.

[sotonist]

sod the NI contributions, not going to bother myself with that.

[Turkish]

or even 40% as the rate of tax.

 

**** forgot highest rate of tax...

 

2000000*0.7846101556/.5/52=60354.6273538

 

is that right?

 

http://www.listentotaxman.com/index.php

 

It's 2m Euros NET dont forget.

[Turkish]

before Turkish corrects you.........

 

I'm sure we went through this before and it made his wage around £65k a week.

 

However as Trousers pointed out the original source article for that interview put the figure in brackets suggesting Gaston didn't actually say how much Saints were offering him and the newspaper sourced that information from elsewhere or speculated it.

 

So Gaston wasn't lying because he probably never stated the actual figure, nor does virtually any footballer.

 

Some show it as a direct quote others dont, either way, it's fair to say that Ramirez most certainly did say that "they pay me so much money" and i do you really think the media would make up a wage and then quote it alongside a direct quote from the player himself?

[egg]

Direct quote here. But it's alright because Road Saints said he knows for a fact that no one earns this at Saints so Ramirez must have been lying.

 

http://www.insidefutbol.com/2012/08/17/they-will-pay-me-so-much-money-liverpool-target-gaston-ramirez-set-for-southampton/67264/

 

Cheers. That's about as clear as it gets.

 

On the Wanyama subject, I can't see any value at the reported £12m. I've seen him play a few times and whilst his presence will assist our pressing game his lack of discipline and passing ability/range will do nothing for our overall game.

[Bucks Saint]

Celtic fans saying he was on around £2k at Beerschot, then around £7k a week with them and was offered around £25k a week to stay which is on about par with their other top earners.

 

So yeh, I reckon we are offering him around the £40-45k margin. I rekcon his agents are trying to get the £65k a week area, probably because stupid QPR probably said they would pay him that much seeing as they pay the likes of Barton and Onouha that amount.

 

Dont think anyone at Celtic is on £25k (except maybe Ledley who was signed on a free, and sometimes they split the larger signing on fee over months to inflate the salary). Hooper is on about £13k. Brown about £17k. Samaras somewhere around that. Most of the rest are on £12k or less

[tajjuk]

Some show it as a direct quote others dont, either way, it's fair to say that Ramirez most certainly did say that "they pay me so much money" and i do you really think the media would make up a wage and then quote it alongside a direct quote from the player himself?

 

 

Actually virtually none of the articles quote him as saying that. He said "They give me so much money, that I put in my life and the whole family". Well that's the translation from Italian. No figures though.

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/southampton/9482694/Southampton-close-to-signing-Bologna-winger-Gaston-Ramirez.html

 

That article for example has the quote as -

 

I could not refuse, it's the classic offer you cannot refuse.

"I would have a four-year deal and they are giving me so much more money that would go towards my family and my future.

 

different in the mail -

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2189687/Gaston-Ramirez-confirms-Southampton-move.html

 

 

'The English club has reached an agreement with me, it is the classic offer that you cannot refuse for my life as a whole and my family.

 

 

The Metro said -

 

http://metro.co.uk/2012/08/17/gaston-ramirez-snubs-spurs-and-liverpool-to-sign-for-southampton-540202/

 

It is an offer that you cannot refuse. They will give me so much money [rumoured to be £1.57m net per year and more than £780,000 signing-on fee].’

 

 

And finally Corrier dello Sport -http://www.corrieredellosport.it/calcio/calcio_mercato/2012/08/17-259600/Ramirez+al+Southampton.+Bologna%2C+giusto+cederlo%3F

 

I would say no: it is the classic offer you can not refuse. I have 4 years of the contract to important figures. They give me so much money (2 million euro net per year, more than one million signature) that I put in my life and the whole family

 

Direi di no: è la classica offerta che non si può rifiutare. Mi hanno fatto 4 anni di contratto a cifre importantissime. Mi danno talmente tanti soldi (2 milioni di euro netti all'anno, più un milione alla firma) che sistemo a vita me e tutta la famiglia. E non è finita».

 

So at no point does Gaston actually say that is the contract.

 

From what I understand of Italian wages, think someone posted something the other day he could have been on as little as 15k a week, so 45k a week would be 'so much money'.

Edited 25 June, 2013 by tajjuk

[Turkish]

/\ the link i put on had it as a direct quote.

 

Where do you think all these papers got their figures from? Is it just conincidence that they are all quoting pretty much the same amounts? All making it up and plucking figures out of the sky, yes?

[Clapham Saint]

MLG still making friends

 

http://www.talkceltic.net/forum/showthread.php?t=128427&page=99

 

Wow. They've got a bit of a chip on their shoulders about quality of the league and the EPL's worldwide appeal haven't they!

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

/\ the link i put on had it as a direct quote.

 

Where do you think all these papers got their figures from? Is it just conincidence that they are all quoting pretty much the same amounts? All making it up and plucking figures out of the sky, yes?

 

To be fair, yes, it makes it sensationalist. If he had said it, and if the source was reliable, then all the papers would have it. People always want to know numbers. Sorry to say I think you're wrong here.

[saintbob40]

Cork and Morgan> than Wanyama at a lot, lot less. 20/30k p/w v 50/60 p/w....and Cork and Morgan are proven at this level (e.g Chelsea (home and away), Liverpool, Man City at home). Wanyama had a couple of decent games in the CL and then went back to playing pub teams for the rest of the season-that makes him unproven in my book and 12m is a lot for an unproven player...who also looks like a bit of an arsehole at present.

 

We should spend the cash on a centre forward as SRL looked like he was wearing diver's boots towards the end of the season.

[Turkish]

To be fair, yes, it makes it sensationalist. If he had said it, and if the source was reliable, then all the papers would have it. People always want to know numbers. Sorry to say I think you're wrong here.

 

right so you think they made it up to sensationalise the story, fair enough, i didn't realise premier league footballer earns £70k a week was sensational stuff. Despite Ramirez saying he was going to be paid a fortune and then some media outlets showing it as a direct quote, others showing it in brackets, so they must have all got it from somewhere. Good stuff. How much do you think he is on by the way?

Edited 25 June, 2013 by Turkish

[Tokyo-Saint]

Is that really MLG on there?

[Bearsy]

Matthew Le God aka Ted Bates is a fud.

 

what is a fud? I'm assuming is complimentary!

[trousers]

Direct quote here.

 

http://www.insidefutbol.com/2012/08/17/they-will-pay-me-so-much-money-liverpool-target-gaston-ramirez-set-for-southampton/67264/

 

That article takes its information from original article published here:

 

http://www.corrieredellosport.it/calcio/calcio_mercato/2012/08/17-259600/Ramirez+al+Southampton.+Bologna%2C+giusto+cederlo%3F

 

The original quote is:

 

Non può rifiutare?

«Direi di no: è la classica offerta che non si può rifiutare. Mi hanno fatto 4 anni di contratto a cifre importantissime. Mi danno talmente tanti soldi (2 milioni di euro netti all'anno, più un milione alla firma)che sistemo a vita me e tutta la famiglia. E non è finita».

 

Translation:

 

I would say no: it is the classic offer you can not refuse. I have 4 years of the contract to important figures. They give me so much money (2 million euro net per year, more than one million signature) that I put in my life and the whole family. It is not over

 

The 'insidefutbol' article writes the above as follows:

 

“It is the classic ‘you cannot refuse’ offer.

 

“I have got a four-year contract with some big numbers.

 

“They give me so much money – €2M net per year and €1M for signing.”

 

So, in the original article the figures appear as an indirect quote (i.e. the figures are put in brackets which COULD suggest they were added after the interview) whereas the subsequent re-worded article has it as a direct quote.

 

None of which disproves that Gaston didn't give the figures to the interviewer as some point before they went their separate ways but by the same token it isn't 100% conclusive that the interviewer got the actual figures from the horse's mouth.

 

Just an observation.

 

edit: oops, just seen that someone else already tried to highlight the subtleties of the article(s)

[Tokyo-Saint]

edit - found it

 

Although "fud" is widely accepted in Scotland as being a slang term for the female reproductive organs, it is generally used as a pejorative to describe someone who has just done something stupid, often in situations where they've either been impulsive or it was blindingly obvious beforehand that it was a stupid thing to do. It can also be used to describe someone who irritates everyone because they try to impress everyone all the time & invariably talk a load of pish.

"Haw ya big fud!" (angry)

 

Person A "Ah canny be ****ed wi him!"

Person B "How?"

Person A "Coz he's a pure fud!"

Person B "what MLG?"

Person A "aye"

[Turkish]

That article takes its information from original article published here:

 

http://www.corrieredellosport.it/calcio/calcio_mercato/2012/08/17-259600/Ramirez+al+Southampton.+Bologna%2C+giusto+cederlo%3F

 

The original quote is:

 

 

 

Translation:

 

 

 

The 'insidefutbol' article writes the above as follows:

 

 

 

So, in the original article the figures appear as an indirect quote (i.e. the figures are put in brackets which COULD suggest they were added after the interview) whereas the subsequent re-worded article has it as a direct quote.

 

None of which disproves that Gaston didn't give the figures to the interviewer as some point before they went their separate ways but by the same token it isn't 100% conclusive that the interviewer got the actual figures from the horse's mouth.

 

Just an observation.

 

So if it wasn't Ramirez where did they get it from? Why would Ramirez or the paper make up what his wages are? DPs says senasionalise the story, but premier league footballer paid £70k a week is hardly the stuff of headlines is it.

[Sour Mash]

Wow. They've got a bit of a chip on their shoulders about quality of the league and the EPL's worldwide appeal haven't they!

To be fair to MLG, it's hard NOT to wind them on the subject, they are a bit precious on there.

[Bearsy]

a slang term for the female reproductive organs

 

gotcha!

 

Edit- How dares they!

[tajjuk]

/\ the link i put on had it as a direct quote.

 

Where do you think all these papers got their figures from? Is it just conincidence that they are all quoting pretty much the same amounts? All making it up and plucking figures out of the sky, yes?

 

Well that's lazy linking. The original article in the Corrier dello Sport, who did the original interview with Gaston does not have himsaying how much Saints were offering him. They (Corrier dello Sport) then add a figure next to the quote.

 

Where they get that figure from I don't know but I can't find ANY evidence that Gaston said he was on 2 million net euros. He didn't tell them that otherwise they would have quoted him and I doubt the agent or Cortese would have told them, considering how Cortese conducts his business.

 

That suggested figure is obviously not that well trusted because several of the other Newspapers articles pick up on the same quote but don't include the figures mentioned. The other sites all quote the same amount because they are all basing it on that one article and that one interview with Gaston.

 

The only mention of this 2 million NET Euros figure is from the Corrier dello Sport and no where else.

 

Personally I think they are guessing, I have never seen a footballer disclose his wages. I think they put that figure their to add weight to his comments so the reader can rationale them.

Edited 25 June, 2013 by tajjuk

[Cestrian Saint]

Sky reporting that he's not been in talks this week. The last time was over two weeks ago when the clubs agreed a fee but he couldn't agree terms. His agent is saying that it must have taken two weeks for the story to come out.

I hope this is the end of it. I smell trouble with him. Too many demands and too much agent talk are never a good sign.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

right so you think they made it up to sensationalise the story, fair enough. Despite Ramirez saying he was going to be paid a fortune and then some media outlets showing it as a direct quote, others showing it in brackets, so they must have all got it from somewhere. Good stuff. How much do you think he is on by the way?

 

Yes I do think they made it up. Papers make things up a lot. I saw recently a paper saying Rooney was on £300k a week. He's not, but it was describing that as a reason why he wouldn't join Arsenal. Why they would know his basic wage is beyond me, especially when so much of a footballers wages is made up of bonuses etc, the figure is likely to be wrong and/or taken out of context.

 

For me, I think he will be on around the £50k mark, maybe a little below (48ish), but that's a pure guess. No-one has any proof as to how much it is, just that it's alot. And that is classed as a lot in my book. Don't forget Italy are notoriously poor payers outside the top clubs, so wouldn't expect him to have been on more than £12k on Bologna, so we effectively quadrupled his wages. All imho of course.

[trousers]

Where do you think all these papers got their figures from? Is it just conincidence that they are all quoting pretty much the same amounts? All making it up and plucking figures out of the sky, yes?

 

Who knows where a journo gets such figures from. Maybe he was reading between the lines. Maybe Gaston or his agent or someone from Bologna dropped some subtle hints and he put 2 and 2 together. Maybe they ARE the exact figures that Gaston gave him. The point is we can't be 100% certain one way or the other.

 

And its no surprise that all the other media outlets quoted the same figures as they would have all got said figures from the same original article.

Edited 25 June, 2013 by trousers

[ART]

Heylo Dare!!!

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/english/cardiff-city-refused-victor-wanyama-talks-1-2974938

[angelman]

on soon TalkSport - about agent's fees and Wanyama (apparently)

[Turkish]

Well that's lazy linking. The original article in the Corrier dello Sport, who did the original interview with Gaston does not have himsaying how much Saints were offering him. They (Corrier dello Sport) then add a figure next to the quote.

 

Where they get that figure from I don't know but I can't find ANY evidence that Gaston said he was on 2 million net euros. He didn't tell them that otherwise they would have quoted him and I doubt the agent or Cortese would have told them, considering how Cortese conducts his business.

 

That suggested figure is obviously not that well trusted because several of the other Newspapers articles pick up on the same quote but don't include the figures mentioned. The other sites all quote the same amount because they are all basing it on that one article and that one interview with Gaston.

 

The only mention of this 2 million NET Euros figure is from the Corrier dello Sport and no where else.

 

Lazy, lying scumbag journos making it all up again then. They just plucked a figure out of the sky, decided it was a net figure and published it. Yes, thats exactly how it works.

[Sour Mash]

what is a fud? I'm assuming is complimentary!

This is a cracking quote from one of them "This worldwide appeal aswell is a myth. These games are forced upon English speaking countries who didn't ask for them." regards the success of the Prem.

[trousers]

So if it wasn't Ramirez where did they get it from? Why would Ramirez or the paper make up what his wages are?

 

There's a large grey area between "horse's mouth" and "totally made up" quotes. I'm sort of agreeing with you in that it's not unreasonable to deduce that he got those figures directly from Gaston. All I'm saying is that we can't be 100% certain.

[Bearsy]

his agent is a fud, imo

[pingwing]

Well that's pretty funny, educated guess is everyone else is pointing out to Celtic to sort out that agent by offering the same money minus the agent fee from the bid when we will give Celtic the money and the agent needs a shafting from the player instead.

[Big Bad Bob]

Let's get this correct :-

 

€2M * 0.78 (exchange rate from earlier) / 52 (number of weeks in year) = £30,000 p/w net of tax etc.

 

So, if we're generous and say he's paid 40% tax (yeah right) and NI is capped at an upper limit so can (mostly) be ignored.

 

Then we divide by 60 and multiply by 100 (the net is 60% of the gross) to get gross amount, in this case £50,000 p/w.

 

So, this has a lot of assumption and I doubt whether they would actually pay that much tax etc so £50k p/w is about right!

[tajjuk]

Lazy, lying scumbag journos making it all up again then. They just plucked a figure out of the sky, decided it was a net figure and published it. Yes, thats exactly how it works.

 

That's not what I said, it's probably an educated guess on their part or Gaston/his agent hinted at an amount off the record and the reporter then went from there.

 

I don't really know, but you said that if Gaston isn't on 65k a week like others were saying then he is lying, well he isn't.

 

If he directly said "they pay me so much money, 2 million euros net per year" then it would have been a direct quote and there would have been no brackets there.

 

Simply because those figures are in brackets means He didn't tell that journalist, in that interview, that the contract offer was 2 million euros net a year. Certainly not on the record and if they attributed that quote to him and he didn't say it it that paper would be in trouble.

 

If he had said that then they could have simply left the whole sentence in quotation marks as it would have been a word for word quote and they wouldn't have missed that opportunity. I have a mate who is a financial journalist and he's explained to me before what they can and can't do. I would presume the rules are pretty similar in Italy.

Edited 25 June, 2013 by tajjuk

[Turkish]

That's not what I said, it's probably an educated guess on their part or Gaston/his agent hinted at an amount off the record and the reporter then went from there.

 

I don't really know, but you said that if Gaston isn't on 65k a week like others were saying then he is lying, well he isn't.

 

If he directly said "they pay me so much money, 2 million euros net per year" then it would have been a direct quote and there would have been no brackets there.

 

Simply because those figures are in brackets means He didn't tell that journalist, in that interview, that the contract offer was 2 million euros net a year.

 

well if he isn't on £65k a week then someone is lying. Either the media or whoever told the media. The Italian paper stated that was the figure, not a rumoured or suggested amount and also confirmed it was NET as well. Pretty detailed if it was merely speculation.

[Saint Garrett]

Let's get this correct :-

 

€2M * 0.78 (exchange rate from earlier) / 52 (number of weeks in year) = £30,000 p/w net of tax etc.

 

So, if we're generous and say he's paid 40% tax (yeah right) and NI is capped at an upper limit so can (mostly) be ignored.

 

Then we divide by 60 and multiply by 100 (the net is 60% of the gross) to get gross amount, in this case £50,000 p/w.

 

So, this has a lot of assumption and I doubt whether they would actually pay that much tax etc so £50k p/w is about right!

 

Surel'y he'd be paying 50% tax?

 

Sure I worked it out last year at around £70k/week, as it worked out around £38k before tax.

[Turkish]

Surel'y he'd be paying 50% tax?

 

Sure I worked it out last year at around £70k/week, as it worked out around £38k before tax.

 

we've done the figures before and i linked the tax calculator above, the figure is £65-£70k a week gross, so you're right. Cant be arsed to keep repeating it.

[Window Cleaner]

Well that's pretty funny, educated guess is everyone else is pointing out to Celtic to sort out that agent by offering the same money minus the agent fee from the bid when we will give Celtic the money and the agent needs a shafting from the player instead.

 

all well and good but knowing Nicola as I don't I wouldn't doubt that Cardiff have bid more than us. 12 million £ is just a pie in the sky figure made up by agents or journalist or Celtic or all of them put together . Bet we bid about 6 or 7 million including add ons.

[trousers]

That's not what I said, it's probably an educated guess on their part or Gaston/his agent hinted at an amount off the record and the reporter then went from there.

 

I don't really know, but you said that if Gaston isn't on 65k a week like others were saying then he is lying, well he isn't.

 

If he directly said "they pay me so much money, 2 million euros net per year" then it would have been a direct quote and there would have been no brackets there.

 

Simply because those figures are in brackets means He didn't tell that journalist, in that interview, that the contract offer was 2 million euros net a year. Certainly not on the record and if they attributed that quote to him and he didn't say it it that paper would be in trouble.

 

If he had said that then they could have simply left the whole sentence in quotation marks as it would have been a word for word quote and they wouldn't have missed that opportunity. I have a mate who is a financial journalist and he's explained to me before what they can and can't do. I would presume the rules are pretty similar in Italy.

 

I've been banging on about it not being a direct quote for a while now but you've articulated better than I ever have.

[trousers]

Cant be arsed to keep repeating it.

 

Is that a promise....?

[thorpie the sinner]

Trousers, have the alarm bells just started going off?? I was wondering if you won a weekend for 2 for being the 1000th poster??

[trousers]

well if he isn't on £65k a week then someone is lying. Either the media or whoever told the media. The Italian paper stated that was the figure, not a rumoured or suggested amount and also confirmed it was NET as well. Pretty detailed if it was merely speculation.

 

If you're going to "fabricate" a valuation then adding extra little details like "NET" would tend to make it look more genuine... crafty buggers some of these journos....