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Victor Wanyama - Officially Signed

patred44

By patred44,
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DuncanRG

DuncanRG

Posted
Posted

That Ramirez quote is a little more than the usual 'great to be here', but nothing huge.

 

I'm still on the Celtic forums and can't decide whether I prefer their delusions or yours. Strolling into the first XI of any team in Europe vs the Kenyan Ray Wilkins...

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Batman

Batman

Posted
Posted
That Ramirez quote is a little more than the usual 'great to be here', but nothing huge.

 

I'm still on the Celtic forums and can't decide whether I prefer their delusions or yours. Strolling into the first XI of any team in Europe vs the Kenyan Ray Wilkins...

 

I think he will become a big player. But if we get him then there is a reason why united, city, arsenal, chelsea have not at this moment in time

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Professor

Professor

Posted
Posted

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/10503278.Wanyama_reveals_Saints_offer_was__not_right_/?ref=eb

 

The player can say the terms 'were not right' but the club can equally say they were prepared to meet his unreasonable demands. At no point has Wanyama appeared to be a player who wants to come here which must mean we are better off without him. He's had an incentive at Celtic to try to be noticed in order to get a deal from a TV rich club but once he's got that and has the money coming in there is no guarantee he will perform.

 

Lets hope we can draw a blue line under this and look for a player who has the ambition to take Saints forward.

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DuncanRG

DuncanRG

Posted
Posted (edited)
I think he will become a big player. But if we get him then there is a reason why united, city, arsenal, chelsea have not at this moment in time

 

Yup - that's my take on it as well. Someone over there has suggested the likes of Barca, Bayern and Madrid haven't made offers because he plays in Scotland. The best clubs in the world are using SWF logic!

 

At no point has Wanyama appeared to be a player who wants to come here which must mean we are better off without him.

 

Messi wouldn't want to come here, and I reckon he'd probably do okay up top with Rickie. What a stupid thing to say. This guy probably has ambition beyond 'taking Saints forward', and rightly so.

Edited by DuncanRG
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Batman

Batman

Posted
Posted
Yup - that's my take on it as well. Someone over there has suggested the likes of Barca, Bayern and Madrid haven't made offers because he plays in Scotland. The best clubs in the world are using SWF logic!

 

 

 

Messi wouldn't want to come here, and I reckon he'd probably do okay up top with Rickie.

they sign good players. regardless of where they come from.

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/10503278.Wanyama_reveals_Saints_offer_was__not_right_/?ref=eb

 

The player can say the terms 'were not right' but the club can equally say they were prepared to meet his unreasonable demands. At no point has Wanyama appeared to be a player who wants to come here which must mean we are better off without him. He's had an incentive at Celtic to try to be noticed in order to get a deal from a TV rich club but once he's got that and has the money coming in there is no guarantee he will perform.

 

Lets hope we can draw a blue line under this and look for a player who has the ambition to take Saints forward.

 

Its not like L1 fella, players aren't going to come here because we are a massive club in this league and a great step up for them. The reality is most players will sign will be from clubs who are at least as big as us and often bigger. Players won't come here because they always dreamt of playing for a club like Southampton, they already are, or a bigger one. We have to convince players at this level that we are the right club for them to realise their ambitions, be that play in England, international ambitions whatever, the problem is for a lot of players we seem to be targeting they probably won't view us initially as a step up, not least until they've entered negotiations and actually spoken to the chairman.

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St Marco

St Marco

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Posted

Totally agree with with Turkish.

 

However if we are paying say £12m, then say £45k a week and then say the agent wants £2m+ then I think that is way too much. It highlights a problem in the modern game and one that needs to be sorted out. If the player can agree terms, the clubs can agree terms but it breaks down because of what the agent wants then something is obviously wrong with the game.

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Glasgow_Saint

Glasgow_Saint

Posted
Posted
Totally agree with with Turkish.

 

However if we are paying say £12m, then say £45k a week and then say the agent wants £2m+ then I think that is way too much. It highlights a problem in the modern game and one that needs to be sorted out. If the player can agree terms, the clubs can agree terms but it breaks down because of what the agent wants then something is obviously wrong with the game.

 

This deal, from what i understand, is for a £12,000,000 transfer fee. The contact will be not less than 3 years- probably 5 but lets settle at 4. There will be bonuses on top- lets say up to 50% of salary p.a. again but settle at 20%. Assume his salary is fixed during that time ( unlikely- more likely to have automatic increments built in) and he would be on our highest or close to highest weekly salary (Ramirez, lets call it £60k pw.) then this deal is worth around,......£27M over the four years + The agent wants £500k. That's 1.8% "commission" or agency fee.

 

Alot of ££££'s

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itchen_dan

itchen_dan

Posted
Posted

reluctantnicko: @Jayrodfan2 Agent fee is a genuine problem. But he won't get that number anywhere else ... So it's the agent's problem too.

 

reluctantnicko: @Jayrodfan2 Agent fee has to come down. How long that takes is a total unknown.

 

reluctantnicko: @Jayrodfan2 Agent fee is way too high. But he won't get it anywhere else. No idea when he will realise that.

 

reluctantnicko: @andrew_halford @Jayrodfan2 Figure I have been told does start with a 1 and have six numbers after it ... and they are not all zeroes.

 

reluctantnicko: @Jayrodfan2 Wanyama was looking very good. Not so sure now.

 

reluctantnicko: @Jayrodfan2 Not a lot to discuss until the agent clears his head ...

 

I said the other day I think Wanyama will sign and it'll take time but after seeing reports tonight of Cardiff having £10m bid accepted etc and knowing they'll want a marquee signing then I think they may just get him. The agent fee will prevent us getting him. End of. Cortese has the right policy when it comes to this and I am very happy for it to continue as long a it doesn't mean we miss out on some big deals. Big shame as I really want him here. Will be a HUGE player for us... in more ways than one.

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St Marco

St Marco

Posted
Posted
This deal, from what i understand, is for a £12,000,000 transfer fee. The contact will be not less than 3 years- probably 5 but lets settle at 4. There will be bonuses on top- lets say up to 50% of salary p.a. again but settle at 20%. Assume his salary is fixed during that time ( unlikely- more likely to have automatic increments built in) and he would be on our highest or close to highest weekly salary (Ramirez, lets call it £60k pw.) then this deal is worth around,......£27M over the four years + The agent wants £500k. That's 1.8% "commission" or agency fee.

 

Alot of ££££'s

 

Indeed that is a crazy amount of money.

 

But it seems that the problem is the agent wanting too much money. At least £1m. I don't think an agent should be getting anywhere near that amount.

Sooner Agent fees are capped the better. When I sold my house the house agent got 2.5%. So for the £350k we got they received around 7k. Which was fair. But these agents just make it up as they go. If the fee is £10m and he wants at least £1m that's 10%. That's a joke. He shouldn't be able to demand anywhere near that.

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jasoneuelllfanclub

jasoneuelllfanclub

Posted
Posted
reluctantnicko: @Jayrodfan2 Agent fee is a genuine problem. But he won't get that number anywhere else ... So it's the agent's problem too.

 

reluctantnicko: @Jayrodfan2 Agent fee has to come down. How long that takes is a total unknown.

 

reluctantnicko: @Jayrodfan2 Agent fee is way too high. But he won't get it anywhere else. No idea when he will realise that.

 

reluctantnicko: @andrew_halford @Jayrodfan2 Figure I have been told does start with a 1 and have six numbers after it ... and they are not all zeroes.

 

reluctantnicko: @Jayrodfan2 Wanyama was looking very good. Not so sure now.

 

reluctantnicko: @Jayrodfan2 Not a lot to discuss until the agent clears his head ...

 

I said the other day I think Wanyama will sign and it'll take time but after seeing reports tonight of Cardiff having £10m bid accepted etc and knowing they'll want a marquee signing then I think they may just get him. The agent fee will prevent us getting him. End of. Cortese has the right policy when it comes to this and I am very happy for it to continue as long a it doesn't mean we miss out on some big deals. Big shame as I really want him here. Will be a HUGE player for us... in more ways than one.

 

Can't see Cardiff spending 10m on wanyama and 8m on ince. As far as I am aware they are not especially wealthy. Maybe I am wrong but they are just as likely to be used as much as we have.

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Lallana's Left Peg

Lallana's Left Peg

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I understand the need for agents but if you are a buying club and didn't use the agent to find you a player then the agent has done very little and cannot really command a big fee for his role in the deal. That is where this is different to the recruitment example used earlier. Recruitment agencies get a fee because they go out and find people for their clients. But if a company approached you directly would they also expect to have to pay an agency a fee? I don't think so.

 

If there is another club out there that wants to pay £10m+ for Wanyama and pay the agent £1m+ then that is fair enough. I'd rather we didn't become a club who will throw millions at agents no matter who the player is or how much we're interested.

 

I think Wanyama would make us better, but he isn't a 'must have'.

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itchen_dan

itchen_dan

Posted
Posted
Can't see Cardiff spending 10m on wanyama and 8m on ince. As far as I am aware they are not especially wealthy. Maybe I am wrong but they are just as likely to be used as much as we have.

 

The whole colour change to red was so they got increased investment from their owner. Their budget is £25m-£30m for this season + the TV revenue then they have got some funds.

 

They will want a marquee signing as we did last year with Ramirez and West Ham did with Carroll. Wanyama seems to be this player.

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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted
The whole colour change to red was so they got increased investment from their owner. Their budget is £25m-£30m for this season + the TV revenue then they have got some funds.

 

They will want a marquee signing as we did last year with Ramirez and West Ham did with Carroll. Wanyama seems to be this player.

 

Ince will be a quality purchase for them too.

 

Big Malky knows what he's doing.

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MOSaint

MOSaint

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Posted
Can't see Cardiff spending 10m on wanyama and 8m on ince. As far as I am aware they are not especially wealthy. Maybe I am wrong but they are just as likely to be used as much as we have.

 

Their owners are wealthy and do have ambitions for the club, but their owner is quoted as saying:

 

We need to strategise well and we’d like to spend some money – maybe 20 to 25 million,’

 

http://metro.co.uk/2013/04/17/cardiff-ready-to-spend-25million-to-boost-premier-league-campaign-3619158/

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itchen_dan

itchen_dan

Posted
Posted
Ince will be a quality purchase for them too.

 

Big Malky knows what he's doing.

 

It's all well and good getting these players but he'll stick with his traditional rigid 4-4-2 and get found out exactly like Reading and QPR did.

 

It's not as easy as splashing the cash and expecting it to work. Even we found that out with Gaston, Mayuka and Jay Rod for example. All taking / took longer than anticipated to adjust. Champ to PL is a big step and unless you adapt to the division then you are like a rabbit in the headlights waiting to be struck.

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itchen_dan

itchen_dan

Posted
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As much as greedy agents sicken me, they are part of the football business. Unless all clubs take a stand, or agents fees are capped, we'll put ourselves at a disadvantage with competing clubs when trying to sign players.

 

It's all part of "The Southampton Way" bollix

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Dig Dig

Dig Dig

Posted
Posted
As much as greedy agents sicken me, they are part of the football business. Unless all clubs take a stand, or agents fees are capped, we'll put ourselves at a disadvantage with competing clubs when trying to sign players.

 

We do sign players though so we can do deals where agent demands are fair rather than excessive. It's a fair assumption that it's not the first time we have come against such demands and got our man regardless. Not conceding in some situations probably doesn't disadvantage us to the extent that some will make out.

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SaintJackoInHurworth

SaintJackoInHurworth

Posted
Posted

Ok - it's taken ages to read all of today's posts about Wanyama and I have come to the following conclusions:

 

* He is a good player and will probably do a job for us in midfield if we sign him. I will be pleased to see him sign for us rather than Cardiff.

* He is not as good as Banega.

* I'm puzzled why we are concentrating on signing a player in a position in which we are relatively quite strong (Cork, Schneiderlin, Davis, JWP)

* Nevertheless he would add strength in depth to the squad.

* £10-12M + extras is maybe a lot to pay to just add strength in depth.

* What do we know? We are not the experts!

* This signing (if he is signed) needs to be put in the context of all our transfers this summer and we may not see its full realisation straight away.

* Wanyama's agent doesn't have a clue or is going in deliberately very high in the knowledge that Southampton do not pay much to agents (maybe he will end up with £200k, but by Saints standards that is huge!)

 

We will have to wait and see. It will be great if we sign him (just purely for the fact of another quality player on the books) but I suspect it won't be the end of the world if we don't! :)

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Webby

Webby

Posted
Posted
@Zoggers87: @McGregorDerek Current thoughts on the Wanyama situation?

 

@McGregorDerek: @Zoggers87 50-50. Saints or Cardiff just now.

 

Can you imagine what Celtic fans think of that? The great Wanyama, top 5 EPL quality.

 

The reason the top 4 don't want him is cos he's unproven at the top level. Consistently, not just a few games here and there (CL).

 

Same reason why England generally don't look at players outside the PL.

 

The PL is a big step up from the championship and the SPL, and the top 4 is a massive step up again.

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Dig Dig

Dig Dig

Posted
Posted
Ok - it's taken ages to read all of today's posts about Wanyama and I have come to the following conclusions:

 

* He is a good player and will probably do a job for us in midfield if we sign him. I will be pleased to see him sign for us rather than Cardiff.

* He is not as good as Banega.

* I'm puzzled why we are concentrating on signing a player in a position in which we are relatively quite strong (Cork, Schneiderlin, Davis, JWP)

* Nevertheless he would add strength in depth to the squad.

* £10-12M + extras is maybe a lot to pay to just add strength in depth.

* What do we know? We are not the experts!

* This signing (if he is signed) needs to be put in the context of all our transfers this summer and we may not see its full realisation straight away.

* Wanyama's agent doesn't have a clue or is going in deliberately very high in the knowledge that Southampton do not pay much to agents (maybe he will end up with £200k, but by Saints standards that is huge!)

 

We will have to wait and see. It will be great if we sign him (just purely for the fact of another quality player on the books) but I suspect it won't be the end of the world if we don't! :)

 

Re your point about depth in the DCM position, neither Davis or JWP are particularly good there.

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SO16_Saint

SO16_Saint

Posted
Posted
Re your point about depth in the DCM position, neither Davis or JWP are particularly good there.

 

And not just not that good in our squad, but not good at all in comparison to other PL teams.

 

We have to get out of the thinking of what we have is good enough, we finished 14th last year, most £6M+ signings will be an improvement to the first team

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angelman

angelman

Posted
Posted
The PL is a big step up from the championship and the SPL, and the top 4 is a massive step up again.

 

Agree. The top 4 or 6 that he is hankering after, no doubt are either well complemented in DCM or have other targets in mind. That leaves the likes of us (and a number of other teams), stay at Celtic or go to Europe. We will I suspect pay better wages, although it has been mentioned that Turkey pay less tax so don't have to pay such high wages.

 

There is a certain amount of brinkmanship involved, although we would all love it if players like this actually wanted to play for us over and above other teams. This brinkmanship gets to a stage where I frankly don't mind if he comes or not.

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Dig Dig

Dig Dig

Posted
Posted
Ah that's because Davis signed on from an SPL side.

 

EPL before that though! He is a decent and tidy player but neither particularly creative or strong defensively. Good squad player but no way should we not look to strengthen that position.

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goneawol

goneawol

Posted
Posted (edited)

Celtic reject £10m Wanyama bid from Premier League new boys Cardiff

 

Cardiff have been denied permission to speak to Celtic midfielder Victor Wanyama after placing a £10million bid for the Kenyan.

 

Celtic have accepted £12m from Southampton but the South Coast club have not agreed terms with Wanyama.

 

Despite talk of the player holding further negotiations with Southampton, Wanyama's representative Ivan Modia said: 'It is completely untrue that we are holding talks with Southampton.

 

'They were made aware some weeks ago what the player was looking for. At that time they were not prepared to meet that so, as far as we are concerned, discussions with Southampton ended some weeks ago.

 

'The player is in Kenya and has no immediate plans for a quick return. The player will not be railroaded into a move that is not right for him.'

 

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2347671/Celtic-reject-10m-Victor-Wanyama-bid-Premier-League-new-boys-Cardiff.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Edited by goneawol
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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted
Maybe they should make the players pay their agents from their own signing on fee.

To be fair to him, I think thats what Cortese is trying to do. Whether it actually means less in paid out to agents, or simply the deal is restructured to hide the agents cut is a moot point.

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Webby

Webby

Posted
Posted
I don't know what you mean - that English clubs don't buy foreign players? Cause that's quite clearly not true. The Premier League has a higher proportion of foreign-native players than most.

 

No, England. You know, en-ger-land.

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Webby

Webby

Posted
Posted

'The player is in Kenya and has no immediate plans for a quick return. The player will not be railroaded into a move that is not right for him.' = 'I won't make this deal work if I don't get the wedge I'm looking for'.

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