Saint Scott Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 Signings such as Gaston Ramirez and now prizing a player with the chance to play Champions League football next season. He certainly can sell the clubs vision to these players as they all mention it upon signing. He is the key man at this club by a long shot and thank god he got what he wanted from the owners last month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 Agree, our future depends on him IMO. His passion and drive is for everyone to see, and although he's a bit rough round the edges we're lucky to have him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 Players will go where the money is. Ramirez said as much at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 Yet some on here said he could easily be replaced by any half decent CEO. Laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 Players will go where the money is. Ramirez said as much at the time. So you're as much of a helmet as the media that loves to trot that line out? What he said was slightly more subtle than that. But heigh ho, don't want to get in front of you and an agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintadjg Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 He's a winner I see nothing but success under The Don. I'm sure the word failure has been removed from his vocabulary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 So you're as much of a helmet as the media that loves to trot that line out? What he said was slightly more subtle than that. But heigh ho, don't want to get in front of you and an agenda. He said something along the lines of I had to go there look how much money they are giving me. It was in no way subtle. Have you ever heard of the secret footballer? What he says is very revealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stud mark of doom Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 I think the money is a necessary but not sufficient condition. We have Cortese to thank for the money and the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 Players will go where the money is. Ramirez said as much at the time. Considering the money is partly down to Cortese as well, your point is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 I think the money is a necessary but not sufficient condition. We have Cortese to thank for the money and the rest. No,you have the estate of Marcus Liebherr,and The Trust, to thank for the money. Their continued interest is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 He said something along the lines of I had to go there look how much money they are giving me. It was in no way subtle. Have you ever heard of the secret footballer? What he says is very revealing. Don't deny what he said about money but he also mentioned that we believed in him and were going to build a team around him. Call that fluff or what you will but for a young player, coming to a new country and league, that's a reassuring and powerful message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 Don't deny what he said about money but he also mentioned that we believed in him and were going to build a team around him. Call that fluff or what you will but for a young player, coming to a new country and league, that's a reassuring and powerful message. Almost every single signing and also existing players in interviews mention NC's influence and the selling of the vision. I know certain posters hate that to give him any credit but clearly he is effective - I don't accept every player simply moves to where they earn the most money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 Almost every single signing and also existing players in interviews mention NC's influence and the selling of the vision. I know certain posters hate that to give him any credit but clearly he is effective - I don't accept every player simply moves to where they earn the most money. Entirely of their own accord of course. Is this without influence,ordo you not thinkthere is a tiny chance they might be coached by our media dept of the script to follow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 Entirely of their own accord of course. Is this without influence,ordo you not thinkthere is a tiny chance they might be coached by our media dept of the script to follow? In Ramirez's case,he was already jumping the gun blabbing to the itai media before he got to England and said anything on the OS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 Players will play anywhere if you pay them enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 Why do we assume that Southampton are offering higher wages than everyone else? Lovren and Ramirez were both linked with big, rich clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 Yet some on here said he could easily be replaced by any half decent CEO. Laughable. 1. Management ability of CEO 2. Amount of somebody else's money CEO has to spend. Two different things. Stay with it, you'll get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 Why do we assume that Southampton are offering higher wages than everyone else? Lovren and Ramirez were both linked with big, rich clubs. why do we assume southampton are different to any other medium size clubs with wealthy owners? Cortese is obviously good at selling the ambition of the club but it takes serious cash to get top players at a club like Saints. When football players say ambition they mean money because invariably in todays game they are the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 (edited) Well exactly - it seems to be a bit of both. You're making a player a very good offer if you can offer him money and confidence in the club. My point was that it would be silly to say it's all down to money, and nothing to do with Cortese's conversations with the players, when clubs with equal or far greater financial clout are also looking to sign them. Not to say that we can't offer the same wages they can, simply that it's unlikely money's decided it every single time. Edited 14 June, 2013 by DuncanRG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 Well exactly - it seems to be a bit of both. You're making a player a very good offer if you can offer him money and confidence in the club. My point was that it would be silly to say it's all down to money, and nothing to do with Cortese's conversations with the players, when clubs with equal or far greater financial clout are also looking to sign them. Not to say that we can't offer the same wages they can, simply that it's unlikely money's decided it every single time. "This club is going places and they can match my ambitions." Peter Crouch when he signed for Portsmouth in 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 I'm not sure what that proves at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 I'm not sure what that proves at all. It proves that players will play anywhere for the right money. Of course there is an element of selling the dream but by far the biggest factor is how much money they will get. Obviously another factor could be the fact that a top player is more likely to get first team action at saints rather than a top club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 He's done very well on 8/10 things. Very well. Very poorly on the other 20%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 Giving players a competitive wage and telling them about the ambitions of the club is not really manipulation is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 14 June, 2013 Share Posted 14 June, 2013 No, manipulation's a poor choice of word. I'd say persuasion. Anyway, we agree it's not just money. Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westofshannonsaint Posted 15 June, 2013 Share Posted 15 June, 2013 not wanting to dredge up the past but I would prefer Cortese over Lowe/Wilde/Crouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 15 June, 2013 Share Posted 15 June, 2013 not wanting to dredge up the past but I would prefer Cortese over Lowe/Wilde/Crouch. Good point. This sort of comparison has never been discussed at all. Sigh..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintedwill Posted 15 June, 2013 Share Posted 15 June, 2013 Players will play anywhere if you pay them enough. True, but new financial fair play rules mean that you can't pay players huge basic salaries any more. Seeing that Cortese has used Barcelona as an example before, my impression would be that he's taken a leaf from their book and added in performance related pay triggers (which are exempt from FFA regs) in order to say to incoming players "if the club does well, you'll do well" which I think works well as far as negotiation and selling his vision of the club works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericofarabia Posted 15 June, 2013 Share Posted 15 June, 2013 They only come for the new watch. I get the feeling it has become a bit of a joke at the press conferences by the way MP is rolling his sleeve up and points to it and gets Dejan to move his into view. 24 sec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 15 June, 2013 Share Posted 15 June, 2013 Good Lord. Performance related pay has been around in English football for years. Decades, even. It's completely common for players to receive bonus payments depending upon the team's league position at the time. I've seen instances of mid-range Championship clubs doing this almost ten years ago, so the idea that we're copying Barca by doing something similar is naively laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 15 June, 2013 Share Posted 15 June, 2013 FFS Krackers did you not see the season ticket propaganda, I mean information, which said that we lead other clubs follow and copy us? We will be the first club in the whole history of soccerball to introduce performance related pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 15 June, 2013 Share Posted 15 June, 2013 If only he could manipulate people to stop taking legal action against us then we'd all be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue Saint Posted 15 June, 2013 Share Posted 15 June, 2013 If only he could manipulate people to stop taking legal action against us then we'd all be happy. If that was aaaaaaaaalso the case what would then moan about turds??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 15 June, 2013 Share Posted 15 June, 2013 If that was aaaaaaaaalso the case what would then moan about turds??? I'm sure ill find something road Saint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martel Posted 15 June, 2013 Share Posted 15 June, 2013 Signings such as Gaston Ramirez and now prizing a player with the chance to play Champions League football next season. He certainly can sell the clubs vision to these players as they all mention it upon signing. He is the key man at this club by a long shot and thank god he got what he wanted from the owners last month. Manipulation, not a description I would choose, what I would say is excellent business acumen, but just as importantly can sell the Southampton package, Q.E.D. a club that is going places based on a very good business plan that is one year ahead of the original schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 15 June, 2013 Share Posted 15 June, 2013 Just a very astute biz man...Very astute... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 15 June, 2013 Share Posted 15 June, 2013 why do we assume southampton are different to any other medium size clubs with wealthy owners? Cortese is obviously good at selling the ambition of the club but it takes serious cash to get top players at a club like Saints. When football players say ambition they mean money because invariably in todays game they are the same thing. I don't entirely agree with that. Money is obviously the prime motivation for most, but plenty of players have already earned their pensions by their mid-20's and want to win something, or at least play at a club they feel they would enjoy playing for and has a chance of winning silverware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintedwill Posted 15 June, 2013 Share Posted 15 June, 2013 Kraken, you misunderstand. At the moment players get a large basic salary AND performance bonuses. The barca model is to cut the basic salary pretty much in half and weight the majority of the salary to performance related pay. To say this has been happening in British football for decades is quite wrong and equally laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 16 June, 2013 Share Posted 16 June, 2013 more new Adidas shirts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 16 June, 2013 Share Posted 16 June, 2013 (edited) Kraken, you misunderstand. At the moment players get a large basic salary AND performance bonuses. The barca model is to cut the basic salary pretty much in half and weight the majority of the salary to performance related pay. To say this has been happening in British football for decades is quite wrong and equally laughable. Are you sure you have got this Barcelona model right? I don't know what the latest figures are but two years ago they were the biggest paying sports team in the world, bigger than Man united, with a weekly average wage of over £90k. Edited 16 June, 2013 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 16 June, 2013 Share Posted 16 June, 2013 more new Adidas shirts I like this. That kind of sleeve/collar with Rank Xerox design please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 16 June, 2013 Share Posted 16 June, 2013 Kraken, you misunderstand. At the moment players get a large basic salary AND performance bonuses. The barca model is to cut the basic salary pretty much in half and weight the majority of the salary to performance related pay. To say this has been happening in British football for decades is quite wrong and equally laughable. William, I don't misunderstand at all. I'm talking as someone who has actually seen an array of player contracts, whereby the performance bonus makes up an extremely significant portion of the take home pay. In some cases up to 50% extra, with a lot of it based upon the position the team is in the league (typically using banding such as 1st - 4th, 5th - 10th etc etc). This was particularly the case with one Championship club who were promoted to the Premier League for a short stint. So being as I've actually seen it in action from quite some time ago, your insistence that it hasn't been around for some time is misplaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 16 June, 2013 Share Posted 16 June, 2013 Signings such as Gaston Ramirez and now prizing a player with the chance to play Champions League football next season. He certainly can sell the clubs vision to these players as they all mention it upon signing. He is the key man at this club by a long shot and thank god he got what he wanted from the owners last month. Agree, but calling him the Master of Manipulation does sound "a bit shady", Why not a visionary?......or just a good, entreprenuerial businessman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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