Saints, transfer and foregin players

[angelman]

With Pelligrini saying that City are entering a La Liga era, I look at Saints and who we are supposedly being linked with. A Frenchman, a Uruguayan, a Spaniard and an Italian. Coupled to that, our latest signings have been a Norwegian, Japanese and Uruguayan, I am wondering whether we are going to do the same thing as Man C, Arsenal, Chelsea etc and have no English players, or very few of them. Does it matter? To me it does, even if it does bring more success. I would prefer to do not so well and watch Shaw, Punch, Adam, JWP and JRod week in, week out. That's not to say that I don't want any foreign players, but I definitely want a good representation of English/British players. Am I alone in this?

 

While EU law prohibits putting in a restriction on the number of foreign (EU) players, I think maybe we should limit non-EU players. I realise that the PL won't like it and therefore it won't happen. We all know that this is detrimental to the national side, but the managers of those sides that Woy picks from aren't English and don't care about our national side.

 

What a mess we have. Money, money, money and an uncompetitive national side.

[Saint Garrett]

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?t=42713

[niceandfriendly]

And where exactly are we foraging for these players?

[Olallana]

With Pelligrini saying that City are entering a La Liga era, I look at Saints and who we are supposedly being linked with. A Frenchman, a Uruguayan, a Spaniard and an Italian. Coupled to that, our latest signings have been a Norwegian, Japanese and Uruguayan, I am wondering whether we are going to do the same thing as Man C, Arsenal, Chelsea etc and have no English players, or very few of them. Does it matter? To me it does, even if it does bring more success. I would prefer to do not so well and watch Shaw, Punch, Adam, JWP and JRod week in, week out. That's not to say that I don't want any foreign players, but I definitely want a good representation of English/British players. Am I alone in this?

 

While EU law prohibits putting in a restriction on the number of foreign (EU) players, I think maybe we should limit non-EU players. I realise that the PL won't like it and therefore it won't happen. We all know that this is detrimental to the national side, but the managers of those sides that Woy picks from aren't English and don't care about our national side.

 

What a mess we have. Money, money, money and an uncompetitive national side.

 

That sentence dont work out though. If we dont do well the players like Shaw would leave, and that would also go for Clyne and probably JRod if he continues tto develop.

[Sour Mash]

With Pelligrini saying that City are entering a La Liga era, I look at Saints and who we are supposedly being linked with. A Frenchman, a Uruguayan, a Spaniard and an Italian. Coupled to that, our latest signings have been a Norwegian, Japanese and Uruguayan, I am wondering whether we are going to do the same thing as Man C, Arsenal, Chelsea etc and have no English players, or very few of them. Does it matter? To me it does, even if it does bring more success. I would prefer to do not so well and watch Shaw, Punch, Adam, JWP and JRod week in, week out. That's not to say that I don't want any foreign players, but I definitely want a good representation of English/British players. Am I alone in this?

 

While EU law prohibits putting in a restriction on the number of foreign (EU) players, I think maybe we should limit non-EU players. I realise that the PL won't like it and therefore it won't happen. We all know that this is detrimental to the national side, but the managers of those sides that Woy picks from aren't English and don't care about our national side.

 

What a mess we have. Money, money, money and an uncompetitive national side.

I agree. Been one of the good things of our rise through the leagues down with a core of English lads.

[angelman]

That sentence dont work out though. If we dont do well the players like Shaw would leave, and that would also go for Clyne and probably JRod if he continues tto develop.

 

Yes I guess that that is a Catch-22. But I really don't want to go to SMS and watch 11 foreigners (NB nothing against foreign players personally) playing for Saints. I'm not sure that it will be that bad, but it might not be too far off.

[paulwantsapint]

Having our very best players being foreign is not a problem

 

The problem is when you have sub standard foreign players blocking British talent making the team

[Crowds]

Very one sided argh dnt when you look at our signings over the last 3 seasons... Mostly english. I think it's down to value for money and choice IMO

[Crowds]

Argument* damn I phone

[sotonjoe]

More blatant racism about foreigners coming over here and taking our jobs blah blah blah edl blah.

[Badger]

I agree. Been one of the good things of our rise through the leagues down with a core of English lads.

 

Totally agree.

 

Whilst we all wanted to see Saints back at the top level, there was always the worry as to what we might become in the Premiership, a team full of overpaid mercenaries with no connection to the club was the likely outcome. Sure enough that appears the way we are heading.

[DuncanRG]

Erm, does nobody remember Cortese's aim of academy graduates making up 50% of the team? Eight of our starting XI were British on the last day of the season.

 

There is a problem going on in the Premier League and everyone's aware of it but we're absolutely nowhere near ending up like City or Chelsea. We're one of the better clubs for promoting homegrown talent.

[angelman]

Duncan, yes, it is a problem with the PL, and I will freely admit to being naive in my wish for SFC to remain mainly English (or at a push British). Last season was mainly because the team had been inherited. All the rumours (and yes, I know that they are rumours) of players that we are being linked with are that they are non-British, save for Gary Hooper. I sincerely hope that we can push the academy players through and that they do make up 50% of the team. I think as things stand, having 5 or 6 English players in the starting line up or squad is better than most other teams. I am hoping that we can have this many next season, from Clyne, Shaw, JWP, AL, RL JRod, Punch and Cork - afraid that Fox doesn't do it for me!!! I am a great fan of Punch but I am not sure MP feels the same way.

 

And I presume sotonjoe, the bit about being xenophobic was tongue in cheek, as it has nothing to do with anti-foreigners. I just have to wonder whether I would feel differently about Saints if there weren't any Englishmen in it. I know that is ridiculous as, for example, RL is a Liverpudlian and has nothing to do with Southampton, but if I wanted to watch a team full of foreigners I would probably choose Real, Barca or Bayern

[Dr. Kucho]

Duncan, yes, it is a problem with the PL, and I will freely admit to being naive in my wish for SFC to remain mainly English (or at a push British). Last season was mainly because the team had been inherited. All the rumours (and yes, I know that they are rumours) of players that we are being linked with are that they are non-British, save for Gary Hooper. I sincerely hope that we can push the academy players through and that they do make up 50% of the team. I think as things stand, having 5 or 6 English players in the starting line up or squad is better than most other teams. I am hoping that we can have this many next season, from Clyne, Shaw, JWP, AL, RL JRod, Punch and Cork - afraid that Fox doesn't do it for me!!! I am a great fan of Punch but I am not sure MP feels the same way.

 

And I presume sotonjoe, the bit about being xenophobic was tongue in cheek, as it has nothing to do with anti-foreigners. I just have to wonder whether I would feel differently about Saints if there weren't any Englishmen in it. I know that is ridiculous as, for example, RL is a Liverpudlian and has nothing to do with Southampton, but if I wanted to watch a team full of foreigners I would probably choose Real, Barca or Bayern

 

Agree 100% with this post.

 

Ideally I would like to see a team of between 6-8 English players, with at least half of them graduates from our acadamy.

[Window Cleaner]

With Pelligrini saying that City are entering a La Liga era, I look at Saints and who we are supposedly being linked with. A Frenchman, a Uruguayan, a Spaniard and an Italian. Coupled to that, our latest signings have been a Norwegian, Japanese and Uruguayan, I am wondering whether we are going to do the same thing as Man C, Arsenal, Chelsea etc and have no English players, or very few of them. Does it matter? To me it does, even if it does bring more success. I would prefer to do not so well and watch Shaw, Punch, Adam, JWP and JRod week in, week out. That's not to say that I don't want any foreign players, but I definitely want a good representation of English/British players. Am I alone in this?

 

While EU law prohibits putting in a restriction on the number of foreign (EU) players, I think maybe we should limit non-EU players. I realise that the PL won't like it and therefore it won't happen. We all know that this is detrimental to the national side, but the managers of those sides that Woy picks from aren't English and don't care about our national side.

 

What a mess we have. Money, money, money and an uncompetitive national side.

 

What Frenchman? No link between Saints and any French player as far as I know.

[david in sweden]

With Pelligrini saying that City are entering a La Liga era, I look at Saints and who we are supposedly being linked with. A Frenchman, a Uruguayan, a Spaniard and an Italian. Coupled to that, our latest signings have been a Norwegian, Japanese and Uruguayan, I am wondering whether we are going to do the same thing as Man C, Arsenal, Chelsea etc and have no English players, or very few of them. Does it matter? To me it does, even if it does bring more success. I would prefer to do not so well and watch Shaw, Punch, Adam, JWP and JRod week in, week out. That's not to say that I don't want any foreign players, but I definitely want a good representation of English/British players. Am I alone in this?

 

While EU law prohibits putting in a restriction on the number of foreign (EU) players, I think maybe we should limit non-EU players. I realise that the PL won't like it and therefore it won't happen. We all know that this is detrimental to the national side, but the managers of those sides that Woy picks from aren't English and don't care about our national side.

 

What a mess we have. Money, money, money and an uncompetitive national side.

 

 

well of course, no side is totally static, is it ....it's a squad game .

 

but at the moment we have; Clyne, Shaw, Lallana, Cork, JWP, Rodriguez, Puncheon and Lambert as regular names on the team sheet, although I welcome the " foreigners" we have ; Boruc, Schneiderlin, and Steve Davis in particular.

 

If /when we sign more "non-English players " they will most likely replace other foreigners.......Fonte, Jos, Ramirez.... ?

 

I don't think that any other Prem. side team has quite so many regular ENGLISH players as we have at present ?-----certainly none of the " so-called " successful sides.

 

I think I'm right in saying that the majority of the " next-generation " Academy lads to surface will be English-born....so I don't think there is so much to worry about - do we ?

[Leicestersaint]

With Pelligrini saying that City are entering a La Liga era, I look at Saints and who we are supposedly being linked with. A Frenchman, a Uruguayan, a Spaniard and an Italian. Coupled to that, our latest signings have been a Norwegian, Japanese and Uruguayan, I am wondering whether we are going to do the same thing as Man C, Arsenal, Chelsea etc and have no English players, or very few of them. Does it matter? To me it does, even if it does bring more success. I would prefer to do not so well and watch Shaw, Punch, Adam, JWP and JRod week in, week out. That's not to say that I don't want any foreign players, but I definitely want a good representation of English/British players. Am I alone in this?

 

While EU law prohibits putting in a restriction on the number of foreign (EU) players, I think maybe we should limit non-EU players. I realise that the PL won't like it and therefore it won't happen. We all know that this is detrimental to the national side, but the managers of those sides that Woy picks from aren't English and don't care about our national side.

 

What a mess we have. Money, money, money and an uncompetitive national side.

 

I very much agree with this - and I am hopeful that we will head in this direction with the aim of 50 per cent of the first team home grown and English. There is too much speculation, not least on this forum, about us buying overseas players and not enough thought about bringing in good English youngsters like Ince.

[DuncanRG]

I don't think that any other Prem. side team has quite so many regular ENGLISH players as we have at present ?-----certainly none of the " so-called " successful sides.

 

Norwich have more, plus a couple of Scots and Irish. Not sure how many others.

 

I very much agree with this - and I am hopeful that we will head in this direction with the aim of 50 per cent of the first team home grown and English. There is too much speculation, not least on this forum, about us buying overseas players and not enough thought about bringing in good English youngsters like Ince.

 

Which we probably will do - I think the European press quite likes to link players with moves to the Premier League and foreign press is where we get half our rumours from. The vast majority of gossip from all clubs concerns foreign clubs and players but it doesn't always work out like that when they actually sign them.

[angelman]

What Frenchman? No link between Saints and any French player as far as I know.

 

My mistake - put 2+2 and got about 179864. It was the Croat Dejan Lovren playing for Lyon.

[Window Cleaner]

My mistake - put 2+2 and got about 179864. It was the Croat Dejan Lovren playing for Lyon.

 

He'll be OK, if he can stay on the pitch.

[ozzmeister]

When we were last in the PL wernt the majority of our players foreign:

 

Niemi, svensson, lundekvam, a. Svensson, Fernandez, pahars to name a few?

 

I think this is just part and part of being in the prem, plus, as everyone knows, the same players abroad probably cost half of a like to like English player.... What would an English Ramirez cost (based on potential as it was when we bought him)

[Saint Martini]

If we look at our latest signings we have a blend of British & foreign signings (British: Clyne & Rodriguez, Foreign: Mayuka, Yosh, Boruc, Gazza, Forren, Ramirez). I'm not entirely sure if we should even count Boruc as he was a panic signing but if we combine the signings with the additions from the academy (Shaw and JWP became regular first team players) then there's a nice mix.

 

If you have to players of similar quality you should always go for the British one first but if the price gets driven up just because he is British or if he is not on a similar level as the foreign alternative then why would you go for the British player? Of course the club has a responsibility when it comes to developing future England players but that is something you mainly do with your academy, not through signing 18-20 year old PL ready players.

[itchen_dan]

When we were last in the PL wernt the majority of our players foreign:

 

Niemi, svensson, lundekvam, a. Svensson, Fernandez, pahars to name a few?

 

I think this is just part and part of being in the prem, plus, as everyone knows, the same players abroad probably cost half of a like to like English player.... What would an English Ramirez cost (based on potential as it was when we bought him)

 

I would compare him to someone like Wilshere so probably £25-£30m. Goes to show the quality you can get from abroad and the fees you pay.

[The Kraken]

I would compare him to someone like Wilshere so probably £25-£30m. Goes to show the quality you can get from abroad and the fees you pay.

When a striker such as Andy Carroll goes for £35M it makes an utter mockery of the transfer market and makes it a bit irrelevant to make too many comparisons. Especially when you consider that Michu was bought for £2m, which highlights just how completely ludicrously priced young English talent is rated at the moment.

[The9]

Having our very best players being foreign is not a problem

 

The problem is when you have sub standard foreign players blocking British talent making the team

 

Which never, ever happens. Because if the Brits are better, they play.

[The9]

Erm, does nobody remember Cortese's aim of academy graduates making up 50% of the team? Eight of our starting XI were British on the last day of the season.

 

There is a problem going on in the Premier League and everyone's aware of it but we're absolutely nowhere near ending up like City or Chelsea. We're one of the better clubs for promoting homegrown talent.

 

Not only do I not remember it, he never actually said it word for word, and there was at the very least a very big grey area in whether he meant academy products or just "homegrown" players by the Premier League definition (which includes the likes of Schneiderlin).

[DuncanRG]

Hmm, I've done some digging and got some clarification on this 50% stat. It seems to be that they want 50% of academy players to progress to the first team, rather than 50% of the first team being academy graduates. I don't know how many players go through our youth system but I can't imagine any top flight clubs get half of their academy into the first team.

Edited 10 June, 2013 by DuncanRG

[tajjuk]

Duncan, yes, it is a problem with the PL, and I will freely admit to being naive in my wish for SFC to remain mainly English (or at a push British). Last season was mainly because the team had been inherited. All the rumours (and yes, I know that they are rumours) of players that we are being linked with are that they are non-British, save for Gary Hooper. I sincerely hope that we can push the academy players through and that they do make up 50% of the team. I think as things stand, having 5 or 6 English players in the starting line up or squad is better than most other teams. I am hoping that we can have this many next season, from Clyne, Shaw, JWP, AL, RL JRod, Punch and Cork - afraid that Fox doesn't do it for me!!! I am a great fan of Punch but I am not sure MP feels the same way.

 

And I presume sotonjoe, the bit about being xenophobic was tongue in cheek, as it has nothing to do with anti-foreigners. I just have to wonder whether I would feel differently about Saints if there weren't any Englishmen in it. I know that is ridiculous as, for example, RL is a Liverpudlian and has nothing to do with Southampton, but if I wanted to watch a team full of foreigners I would probably choose Real, Barca or Bayern

 

Barca are currently THE model for homegrown talent. They only have 8 non-spanish players out of 23 man first team squad and 12 of them are products from their academy (excluding Messi), although some were bought back like Pique and Fabregas.

 

Although Pochettino is an Espanyol legend, the club as a whole have made no secret of using Barcelona as an example to follow when it comes to youth development, I think Cortese has mentioned them several times, the club went training there just recently, their youth coaches have been over to our academy to share ideas and I think saints coaches have gone there as well.

 

I would reckon most of our links currently our foreign players because Poch knows those leagues better and the economic state of of both Spain and Italy, especially the clubs just below the top ones means that Saints can punch a bit above their weight in terms of transfers. If there is some good young talent available though in the lower leagues I expect us to be looking at it, we have just recently bought Cork, Clyne and Jay Rod, all English. We have also been linked with Buckley recently and have just signed a teenage youth prospect. I don't think we are suddenly going to become like Chelsea and field an all foreign line up.