badgerx16 Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22687663 "English under-21s made up 2.28% of the total minutes played in 2012-13 with Manchester City, Chelsea, Swansea, Stoke and Wigan failing to field an English player under 21 all season." At least Saints did their bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 (edited) Christ, how can those teams not have any English youth players? As for this... The new figures fall behind Italy (2.38%), Spain (3.40%), Germany (6.22%) and France (7.32%). Does that mean these countries actually had a higher percentage of English youth? I can't imagine those figures are for homegrown talent, as that would surely be near 100% in Spain at least. By the way, there is no mention of Saints in that article as far as I can see. Nice effort on making it Saints related though Edited 5 June, 2013 by Saint_clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 Christ, how can those teams not have any English youth players? As for this... Does that mean these countries actually had a higher percentage of English youth? I can't imagine those figures are for homegrown talent, as that would surely be near 100% in Spain at least. I'm particularly disgusted with Swansea. One of the rumoured reasons for Mancini's sacking was that he didn't do enough with their youth players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 5 June, 2013 Author Share Posted 5 June, 2013 By the way, there is no mention of Saints in that article as far as I can see. Nice effort on making it Saints related though I tried following the link in the BBC article but couldn't find what they are referencing - I assume that if it can be found it would have the details team by team. I would have also thought that the Beeb might have done a bit of positive research to balance the naming and shaming of the five teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansums Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 I tried following the link in the BBC article but couldn't find what they are referencing - I assume that if it can be found it would have the details team by team. I would have also thought that the Beeb might have done a bit of positive research to balance the naming and shaming of the five teams. I did the same but without much luck, where's MLG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 (edited) Christ, how can those teams not have any English youth players? As for this... Does that mean these countries actually had a higher percentage of English youth? I can't imagine those figures are for homegrown talent, as that would surely be near 100% in Spain at least. By the way, there is no mention of Saints in that article as far as I can see. Nice effort on making it Saints related though They have English youth players, but they don't play them in PL games. That's percentage of on-field first team time by nationals (of that country) under 21, basically giving young players opportunities in the first team. So an U21 German player is likely to get around 3 times the amount of game time over a season n the Bundesliga than an English U21 player is going to get in the Premier league. That will then translate into how players then make the step up as first team regulars so in Germany for example 55.4% of players in the Bundesliga are German, whereas Opta reckon just 36% of Premier League players are English. The article doesn't mention Saints directly however only 35 English under-21s have appeared in the premier league this season and Saints have 3 of them in Clyne, Shaw, and James Ward Prowse who had 74 appearances between them. We also of the 21 players we have used this season, 47.6% have been English which is above the Premier League average. (also in reality Danny Fox is English, born in England, played for England U-21s) add in him and Davis and our squad is 57% British. % of 'Club Trained' players in Spain is 23.44%, In England it's 12.60%, that can be seen here - http://www.football-observatory.com/Indicators Also I noticed this little snippet - Stoke have failed to field an English player aged under 21 in the first team for the last three seasons Useless Stoke. I tried following the link in the BBC article but couldn't find what they are referencing - I assume that if it can be found it would have the details team by team. I would have also thought that the Beeb might have done a bit of positive research to balance the naming and shaming of the five teams. I would presume they ordered the "Demographic Study" which can be found here - http://www.football-observatory.com/-Publications,18- Costs 199 Euros. Edited 5 June, 2013 by tajjuk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raynesparksaint Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 I'm particularly disgusted with Swansea. Bit harsh considering they are Welsh, and therefore have Welsh under-21 players like Ben Davies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 ^ He's the only one they have played this year. Uploaded with ImageShack.us http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22738219 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 ^ He's the only one they have played this year. Uploaded with ImageShack.us http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22738219 Impressive, especially considering a large part of Arsenal's figure is from Saints Academy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 I can't imagine those figures are for homegrown talent, as that would surely be near 100% in Spain at least. So you think that almost 100% of players in Spain are not only Spanish but also under 21. Amazing. Carles Puyol looks a bit older to me, and Ronaldo is Portuguese, Messi Argentinian and there are a fair few Brazilians (players that is). perhaps you have misunderstood somewhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 How would they count McManaman in Wigan if he didn´t got injured? Wasn´t he in the squad for the tournament coming up now or wouldn´t he count as U21 cause the tournament is after the season and he has no caps yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 ^ He's the only one they have played this year. Uploaded with ImageShack.us http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22738219 Thank God for that, we are not 2nd. Would have been embarrassing to be runners-up in this table as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 (edited) Double Post Edited 5 June, 2013 by tajjuk Double Post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 How would they count McManaman in Wigan if he didn´t got injured? Wasn´t he in the squad for the tournament coming up now or wouldn´t he count as U21 cause the tournament is after the season and he has no caps yet? McManaman is now 22. He can play in the Euro U21s because it counts when the qualifying started which was 2 years ago so I think there are some players at the tournament who are 23. Under-21 terminology Under-21 players are classed as those who have not turned 22 in the season up to 1 July to ensure a fair comparison with all European leagues across all seasons National players are those born in the country or who have moved to the country for non-football reasons. So Chelsea's Victor Moses is classed as a national player, while Manchester United's Rafael is not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 ^ He's the only one they have played this year. Uploaded with ImageShack.us http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22738219 This tells me, that we are responsible for most of the decent English youth development in the PL; as Jimmy says, Arsenals figures are largely inflated by Theo and Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 Don't think Theo has much to do with Arsenals figure to be honest.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 ^ Walcott is 24 so he wouldn't count. The ox yes, the rest of Arsenal's numbers will be from Wilshere and Jenkinson. It does somewhat paint a false picture of Arsenal, as they only have 5 English players in their whole squad, just happens that they are all 24 or under. I doubt Liverpools numbers will be that high next year, they had to play some of those players throuhg bad signings and injury, but I doubt Shelvey, Wisdom and Kelly will see much game time next year, only really Stirling. Ours will go up if Shaw and JWP play more as thinking about it Clyne doesn't count as he is already 22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 6.5% seems a bit low considering that we had Clyne and Shaw playing for us for most of the season 1 Player playing every game would be ~9% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 ^ Clyne doesn't count, same reason McManaman didn't for Wigan. Under-21 terminology Under-21 players are classed as those who have not turned 22 in the season up to 1 July to ensure a fair comparison with all European leagues across all seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 (edited) ^ Clyne doesn't count, same reason McManaman didn't for Wigan. Fairysnuff I'll let that one slide then. So Luke played 1951 minutes last season, out of a possible 3,420, so that is 57% of the time, divide that by 11 and you get about 5% Prowsey played 484 minutes So, that's it. 2 U21 players make up our 6.5% Edited 5 June, 2013 by Big Bad Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 5 June, 2013 Author Share Posted 5 June, 2013 So, that's it. 2 U21 players make up our 6.5% That's 2 more than Citeh, Stoke, and Chelski combined - and more minutes that the U-21s of all but 2 of our rivals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 That's 2 more than Citeh, Stoke, and Chelski combined - and more minutes that the U-21s of all but 2 of our rivals. Not to mention that Clyne (who is listed as an U21 on the Premier League's squad list), played 30+ matches for Saints and apparently doesn't count towards the total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 Not to mention that Clyne (who is listed as an U21 on the Premier League's squad list), played 30+ matches for Saints and apparently doesn't count towards the total. Clyne weighed in with 3012 minutes, so if he counted it would make almost 14.5%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 to be classed as u21 for the coming u21 championship players needed to be aged under 21 at the start of the calendar year in which a two-year European Under-21 Football Championship campaign begins. So a player turning 21 in January 2011 could play for the u21s but would be 18months too old for the study being discussed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Martini Posted 5 June, 2013 Share Posted 5 June, 2013 Fairysnuff I'll let that one slide then. So Luke played 1951 minutes last season, out of a possible 3,420, so that is 57% of the time, divide that by 11 and you get about 5% Prowsey played 484 minutes So, that's it. 2 U21 players make up our 6.5% You forgot Ben Reeves, he played a few matches earlier in the season and is still U21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 6 June, 2013 Share Posted 6 June, 2013 (edited) You forgot Ben Reeves, he played a few matches earlier in the season and is still U21. I knew I'd forgotten someone, but he isn't listed here so I don't know where to get his total minutes from, not that they would make a huge difference overall methinks. Edit: Ah, he played a total of 26 mins, that adds a massive 0.06% to the total then Edited 6 June, 2013 by Big Bad Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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