What was fan violence like in the 80s at the dell?

[kwsaint]

Violence at football had subsided by the time I started watching saints but I watched the film green street the other day and it made fan hooliganism seem bad. Was this true of Southampton? Did we have a firm?

[The9]

Violence at football had subsided by the time I started watching saints but I watched the film green street the other day and it made fan hooliganism seem bad. Was this true of Southampton? Did we have a firm?

 

As far as I remember (having not been to the Dell in the 80s), when it came out, Green Street was widely mocked from all quarters including the burgeoning hooli-lit community (ie. actual hardcore yobs) for being frankly a bit ridiculous.

[Scoobysaint]

Violence at football had subsided by the time I started watching saints but I watched the film green street the other day and it made fan hooliganism seem bad. Was this true of Southampton? Did we have a firm?

I think its generally accepted that football hooliganism IS bad. Thankfully the days of the 80's are a distant memory unless you are unlucky enough to be a fan of Millwall or a few others.

[Turkish]

Throughout the decades Southampton and football violence have been synonymous. Southampton has long held a fearsome reputation and long been regarded one of the most violent and notorious firms in football violence history. This reputation was largely formed in the seventies, The Milton Road end, along with the Shed at Chelsea, the chicken run at West Ham and the Stretford End at Manchester United remain the only ends that have never been taken by an opposing firm.

 

Into the 80s and the causal movement and as firms became more organised so Saints came into their own. Such was our reputation that sick of being battered everytime we met them, bitter enemies Millwall and Portsmouth joined forces to attack us in a 1985 cup game, whilst both clubs had sinister elements in their ranks even as a combined mob they were no match for the Saints and the firms were chased through Southampton back to St Denys, tails between their legs and teeth in the pits of their stomachs.

 

In 1984 chelsea were another club to tey their luck against our firm. They were Routed. time and spin from Chelsea goes that it was Chelsea that had the upper hand that day, but anyone there will tell you the sight of 250 chelsea fans runnning theough school fields and breaking into Springfield school to escape the baying, snarling mob of Saints was something to behold.

 

In the late 80s Nottingham Forest were another firm to try their luck with their notorious leader Paul Scarrott, at the time the self titled toughest hooligan in England leading them into battle. As was standard procedure by then Forest were destroyed in a crushing victory for the Saints in what became known as the Battle of Bedford Place, whcih afterwards resembled a scene from Braveheart and eye witnesses saying members of the public, including a 75 year old man and a pregnant women, as well as the Forest Executivr Crew, were running for thier lives. rumour has it Scarott was so traumatised at the vicious beating inflicted on he and His mob that day he never recovered and hit the booze to blank out the Memory. Sadly Scarott died several years later, the wounds still raw. RIP.

 

Pick up any hooligan book though and you will rarely see a mention of Southampton, for two reasons. Like all great war historians firm authors only like to record victories and few can claim such a feat when they meet the Saints. Another reason is such was our reputation it became known that taking a firm to Southampton was a suicide mission and something only the crazy would do, hence violence at the Dell receded to virtually non existing by the late 80s, simply due to the fear other clubs firms felt as soon as they uttered our name.

 

It's difficult to believe that as a city and club we could have gone from being the most terrifying away day in England to a stadium with dancing dogs and fancy dress. Some might call that progress but I wouldn't be so quick to agree. I for one am proud of my Southampton brothers at the reputation we had in a very different time and era.

Edited 2 June, 2013 by Turkish

[aintforever]

I was headbutted by a QPR fan outside the Milton end and ran away like a girl because he was old.

[Miltonaggro]

Violence at football had subsided by the time I started watching saints but I watched the film green street the other day and it made fan hooliganism seem bad. Was this true of Southampton? Did we have a firm?

 

Like all large port towns there was always an ability to surprise the 'Hollywood' clubs. As a kid in the 70s it could be quite a daunting experience, and a case of shrinking behind a large mush in a donkey jacket and / or being a mini Alan Wells. The eighties were much more stylised, with the archetype 'football hooligan' going from Neanderthal to devious Mod. There were some ding dongs at the Dell and some fun away games, also some surprise hidings (an away game at Stoke springs to mind) and police brutality (Leeds was good for that). A good friend of mine who served time for football violence offences was notorious with Leeds in the 80s and recently brought out a book, mostly based on old photographs taken at away days. I mentioned to him at the launch, how young and not particuarly 'casual' (well dressed) they looked, all late forties early fifties now - at the time we all though we were the mutt's. So, yes, Saints did have a 'firm' often supplemented by local hard cases, but mainly youngsters buggering about, just like every other city club...

[kpturner]

Forget the 80's - it was the mid to late 70's that things were really dodgy. The dockers in the west stand (archers end) represented a distinctly intimidating section. The Milton Road end was mainly full of gobby youths (like me but a bit older), and everyone migrated en-masse to the archers to be by the away fans in the early '80's. I do remember some frequent unpleasantries in Hill Lane after matches. It all seemed perfectly normal at the time, but looking back now it was absolutely ridiculous. Mind you, if I see a programme showing people smoking indoors or on planes now I can't believe we all actually thought it was fine at the time.

[solentstars]

1970,s was really violent and the warren pub was one of the main places where the big boys used to hang out and came from real working class backgrounds ,unlike the middle class ponces wannabe hooligans we see today and silly fashion victims wearing crappy designed badged names .

glad its gone to be honest has football was killing it self with fan attendance dropping big time.

[solentstars]

Forget the 80's - it was the mid to late 70's that things were really dodgy. The dockers in the west stand (archers end) represented a distinctly intimidating section. The Milton Road end was mainly full of gobby youths (like me but a bit older), and everyone migrated en-masse to the archers to be by the away fans in the early '80's. I do remember some frequent unpleasantries in Hill Lane after matches. It all seemed perfectly normal at the time, but looking back now it was absolutely ridiculous. Mind you, if I see a programme showing people smoking indoors or on planes now I can't believe we all actually thought it was fine at the time.

agree thats the beauty of getting older and wiser

[Miltonaggro]

1970,s was really violent and the warren pub was one of the main places where the big boys used to hang out and came from real working class backgrounds ,unlike the middle class ponces wannabe hooligans we see today and silly fashion victims wearing crappy designed badged names .

glad its gone to be honest has football was killing it self with fan attendance dropping big time.

 

Agree with this, very class conscious and also a lot of fun, but excluded a large contingent of the general paying public. Found a piece written by said Leeds mate promoting said book, which is about his experiences, but given we are the same age are generic despite the 250 mile gap - tribal back then, right of passage and all that - here if original poster / anyone's interested: http://sabotagetimes.com/fashion-style/wish-you-were-here-memories-of-the-leeds-casual-scene/

[Patrick Bateman]

1970,s was really violent and the warren pub was one of the main places where the big boys used to hang out and came from real working class backgrounds ,unlike the middle class ponces wannabe hooligans we see today and silly fashion victims wearing crappy designed badged names .

glad its gone to be honest has football was killing it self with fan attendance dropping big time.

 

To be fair though, doesn't that mirror all [modern] football fans and to a certain extent, the players and management now as well??

[Turkish]

Agree with this, very class conscious and also a lot of fun, but excluded a large contingent of the general paying public. Found a piece written by said Leeds mate promoting said book, which is about his experiences, but given we are the same age are generic despite the 250 mile gap - tribal back then, right of passage and all that - here if original poster / anyone's interested: http://sabotagetimes.com/fashion-style/wish-you-were-here-memories-of-the-leeds-casual-scene/

 

Good read that.

[solentstars]

To be fair though, doesn't that mirror all [modern] football fans and to a certain extent, the players and management now as well??

yes i agree those days are long gone .

[Gemmel]

Like all large port towns there was always an ability to surprise the 'Hollywood' clubs. As a kid in the 70s it could be quite a daunting experience, and a case of shrinking behind a large mush in a donkey jacket and / or being a mini Alan Wells. The eighties were much more stylised, with the archetype 'football hooligan' going from Neanderthal to devious Mod. There were some ding dongs at the Dell and some fun away games, also some surprise hidings (an away game at Stoke springs to mind) and police brutality (Leeds was good for that). A good friend of mine who served time for football violence offences was notorious with Leeds in the 80s and recently brought out a book, mostly based on old photographs taken at away days. I mentioned to him at the launch, how young and not particuarly 'casual' (well dressed) they looked, all late forties early fifties now - at the time we all though we were the mutt's. So, yes, Saints did have a 'firm' often supplemented by local hard cases, but mainly youngsters buggering about, just like every other city club...

 

Milton Do you remember in the late eighties / early nineties Chelsea turning up in BROCKENHURST ( Yes that was Brockenhurst) after the match. A certain @@@@ @@@@, arranged it. Blood bath on the road to the station. Proper Forest boys against football hooligans. The forest didn't so well that day.

[Winnersaint]

Going up Hill Lane as Birmingham City came down back towards the station was just about the scariest experience of the last 55 years.(March 1974). Chelsea in the Cup in 77 was a bit wild also. Like a lot of things in life if you wanted it and looked for it you could get all the thrills you wanted. Not for me though. The nagging fear factor was part of it but my memories are that it was easy to avoid.

[Colinjb]

No offence intended to anyone who looks back on these days fondly, but so glad these days have gone.

[View From The Top]

As a young 15/16 yo nipper I learnt a valuable lesson one night game against Chelsea and ended up going home in my socks, with a fat lip and a head ache whilst some cockney went home with my new trainers!

[kpturner]

As a young 15/16 yo nipper I learnt a valuable lesson one night game against Chelsea and ended up going home in my socks, with a fat lip and a head ache whilst some cockney went home with my new trainers!

 

What was a cockney doing supporting Chelsea anyway??

[toe_punt]

I'm surprised more "Internet hard guys" haven't added to this thread stating their imaginary prowess at beating the crap out of opposing fans for the "fun".

 

My neighbour around the road had all of his front teeth kicked out in the 70s, I think it was against Stoke but it was a long time ago now. God he was a mess, poor bar-steward!

[toe_punt]

Why no offence?

 

They're brain donors.

[Gemmel]

My neighbour around the road had all of his front teeth kicked out in the 70s, I think it was against Stoke but it was a long time ago now. God he was a mess, poor bar-steward!

 

Are you sure it was stoke

Edited 2 June, 2013 by Gemmel

[lordswoodsaints]

Perhaps I should get around to writing a book.

[BARCELONASAINT]

I have to agree with a few others here, it was definately the 70's that was the worse. As a young kid it was always very intimmidating and hostile coming out at full time and being anywhere near the Winston Pub area. The number of times i witnessed some fan be it away fan or home fan get punched for no reason at all was ridiculous. I grew up in Lordshill and went to school locally and many that looked forward to Saturdays purely for the violence they could inflict on others. Sorry to anyone that thought these were good times but they belong with the cavemen. Thank god things have improved or football in this country could have died.

[yorkie]

Like many of my age I remember it well. It was an era where being 'ard was more impaortant than being nice!

The Dell wasn't a particularly dangerous ground once the sorted out the terracing in The Archers, but I can remember a number of battles in The Archers in the early to mid-70's when large contingents of away fans arrived! I smile now because in those days at HT people used to go to the bar and get bottles of beer. Most of it was bravado with the police getting stuck in - never ceased to amaze me how a crowd packed in like sardines could sudddenly develop a big hole with people waving fists and jesturing "come on then!".

Often it was worse outside the ground - I used to have to walk up Hill Lane after every game to go home - but the away coaches always parked up by The Common. Police used to try and stop Saints fans walking up that way. As a previous report states often saw people get a smack for no apparent reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I think Turkish's recollection are a little tinged - I remember Chelsea and Man U "taking" The Milton! Strange really it was quite tribal to say the least.

I have to agree with the majority - it became a sport in itself watching the fighting! Sometimes it was far more entertaining than the match!

It's very different now and although there are often teams who come to SMS looking for trouble it rarely rises to the level of those days unless the police take a back seat and let it.

Away from home I can always remember people wanting to go to Ipswich - because it ws the only end we could take!

Sure I was in The Trent End in the Cup (was it 1977?) and laughed at the mini pitch invasion at WBA in 1976 but all in all it was just a bit of fun.

A mention for The Warrens where it always seemed to kick off on Saturday before the game, and then again "The Painted Wagon" afterwards.

It's a by-gone era, a time I grew up - so I have many fond memories of football, following Saints and all that entailed. By the 1980's I was married - but I used to take my now wife in the late 70's - and she never felt threatened or frightened - so it can't have been that bad!

[John Boy Saint]

I recall as a 13/14 in the late 70s coming down from Basingstoke on the train, as you were coming the same way as most away supporters you learned to keep you head down as you realistically knew that against older bigger blokes the 3-4 of us would get a real pasting. Although going home was the scarier of the 2 trips as you could more easily be on the same train and those hell bent on a scrap would cruise the train looking for one.

As a nipper it was all part of going to football, and like I say being a nipper self preservation was the primary objective althogh a degree of naivety also made it a bit of a rush.

[svetigpung]

I was 10-15 years old and went to plenty of matches at the Dell in the 70's.

Never got caught up in any trouble, but then again i didn't go looking for it.

But as others have said , if you were in the wrong place at the wrong time, then you could get a proper welcome.

 

Did Liverpool away (Keegans return). Jees the whole city was a frightening dump. Gangs of scallies in their front gardens outside Anfield all giving it some. Pretty glad we two lines of the OB to walk between. BUT a fantastic atmosphere inside the ground...truely electric. Dont get close to that nowdays.

 

I do remember the walking to the ground and being really worried that you could get jumped or bottled at any time. Never did though.

And back then on the Archers you had to watch out for all sorts of missles being lobbed over the fence. Anything could fly around you.

 

Anyone remember the famous picture in the pappers of a (some teams) fan with a dart through his nose. A present from the ManUre section.

 

The whole match day was an experience.

Now i take my two youngens to StMarys and away and feel pretty safe. But i still don't go looking for it. Would never have considered that back then tho.

[iansums]

Throughout the decades Southampton and football violence have been synonymous. Southampton has long held a fearsome reputation and long been regarded one of the most violent and notorious firms in football violence history. This reputation was largely formed in the seventies, The Milton Road end, along with the Shed at Chelsea, the chicken run at West Ham and the Stretford End at Manchester United remain the only ends that have never been taken by an opposing firm.

 

Into the 80s and the causal movement and as firms became more organised so Saints came into their own. Such was our reputation that sick of being battered everytime we met them, bitter enemies Millwall and Portsmouth joined forces to attack us in a 1985 cup game, whilst both clubs had sinister elements in their ranks even as a combined mob they were no match for the Saints and the firms were chased through Southampton back to St Denys, tails between their legs and teeth in the pits of their stomachs.

 

In 1984 chelsea were another club to tey their luck against our firm. They were Routed. time and spin from Chelsea goes that it was Chelsea that had the upper hand that day, but anyone there will tell you the sight of 250 chelsea fans runnning theough school fields and breaking into Springfield school to escape the baying, snarling mob of Saints was something to behold.

 

In the late 80s Nottingham Forest were another firm to try their luck with their notorious leader Paul Scarrott, at the time the self titled toughest hooligan in England leading them into battle. As was standard procedure by then Forest were destroyed in a crushing victory for the Saints in what became known as the Battle of Bedford Place, whcih afterwards resembled a scene from Braveheart and eye witnesses saying members of the public, including a 75 year old man and a pregnant women, as well as the Forest Executivr Crew, were running for thier lives. rumour has it Scarott was so traumatised at the vicious beating inflicted on he and His mob that day he never recovered and hit the booze to blank out the Memory. Sadly Scarott died several years later, the wounds still raw. RIP.

 

Pick up any hooligan book though and you will rarely see a mention of Southampton, for two reasons. Like all great war historians firm authors only like to record victories and few can claim such a feat when they meet the Saints. Another reason is such was our reputation it became known that taking a firm to Southampton was a suicide mission and something only the crazy would do, hence violence at the Dell receded to virtually non existing by the late 80s, simply due to the fear other clubs firms felt as soon as they uttered our name.

 

It's difficult to believe that as a city and club we could have gone from being the most terrifying away day in England to a stadium with dancing dogs and fancy dress. Some might call that progress but I wouldn't be so quick to agree. I for one am proud of my Southampton brothers at the reputation we had in a very different time and era.

 

What a beautifully written post, brought a tear to my eye. You have every right to be proud, very proud.

[Suomi Saint]

Yep, the 70's were the worst, and quite often there was a punch up at half time in the Archers with coppers helmets flying everywhere. I distinctly remember the battles with the Millwall fans, which, thankfully, I managed to avoid by just standing still and watching the match. At one of those games there was a huge space around me during a particularly brutal punch up, but being naive and stupid I didn't make a run for it. Strangely, I got left alone in what was a modern day no man's land. They were dark days for football, no doubt. My sister went out with a skinhead who was at the centre of it all during those days. He was very polite and treated my sister very well. I guess he saw it as gladiatorial battle; only those that went looking for it found it. I never got thumped once during all those years, so I guess I was either lucky or the other side knew I wasn't up for losing my teeth.

[paris]

It's all in The Soul Celler archive , which is to be found on here somewhere ....

[paris]

The Warrens on a match day was quite something , i do remember before one match in there seeing a small axe laying on a shelf and it wasn't for show i can tell you , the owner/s sitting nearby would not hesitate to use it .....

[Mowgli]

Southampton has long held a fearsome reputation and long been regarded one of the most violent and notorious firms in football violence history.

 

lol. I think the sarcasm went over most people's heads.

[scotty]

 

 

 

Anyone remember the famous picture in the papers of a (some teams) fan with a dart through his nose. A present from the ManUre section.

 

 

I remember that photo, they didn't dare pull the dart out until he got to hospital in case it had pierced his brain. The bloke with it still stuck above his nose didn't look particularly bothered by it.

 

Yep, the 70's were the worst, and quite often there was a punch up at half time in the Archers with coppers helmets flying everywhere. I distinctly remember the battles with the Millwall fans, which, thankfully, I managed to avoid by just standing still and watching the match. At one of those games there was a huge space around me during a particularly brutal punch up, but being naive and stupid I didn't make a run for it. Strangely, I got left alone in what was a modern day no man's land. They were dark days for football, no doubt. My sister went out with a skinhead who was at the centre of it all during those days. He was very polite and treated my sister very well. I guess he saw it as gladiatorial battle; only those that went looking for it found it. I never got thumped once during all those years, so I guess I was either lucky or the other side knew I wasn't up for losing my teeth.

 

The late sixties and seventies were when I started going as a kid, thats very much how I remember it. There was always trouble nearby if that was your thing, but easy enough to avoid if it wasn't.

 

Didn't see much of the eighties as I was away at college from 1976-79, then worked up in the Stoke area until 1984. Took me a while to start going to games again once I got back here and started my own business up, saturdays being the one day of the week I couldn't take off. Still holds true, sadly.

[saint1977]

The Warrens on a match day was quite something , i do remember before one match in there seeing a small axe laying on a shelf and it wasn't for show i can tell you , the owner/s sitting nearby would not hesitate to use it .....

 

Indeed, the Soul Cellar thread was one of this forum's longest until the PTS started in July 2009....

 

This was well before my time but I recall reading about a major incident at the Warrens (was the Parkside Tavern and a Marsdens pub when I drank there in the 90s, hate to think what it is now..) in the late 70s when Saints weren't even playing. I think a local non-league side had a FA Cup replay at the Dell v Millwall and it kicked off big time with the locals who were having a Saturday afternoon beer or seven!

 

Can remember Millwall causing a lot of mayhem at the mid-80s FA Cup game - might have been 1985-6 - Saints won the replay. The big London clubs and Man U used to regularly have fans in the Milton and Upper West who didn't exactly hide when their team scored. Can't remember any major disturbances in the 80s beyond scuffling apart from one game with Everton 1987ish?

[DuncanRG]

I can only hope that all the posts condoning/glorifying hooliganism are taking the p*ss, not just Turkish.

[Gorgiesaint]

Can't remember if it was very late 70's or very early 80's but remember after a game against Arsenal, they were about to march the away fans back down Archers Road and Hill Lane back to the station when some numpty decided he'd had enough of waiting for them so decided to drive through them. His car just disappeared under a swarm of Gooners kicking every panel and window in! I was only a nipper at the time so my dad hauled me out the way, I've always wondered what that car looked like afterwards!

[ericb]

Indeed, the Soul Cellar thread was one of this forum's longest until the PTS started in July 2009....

 

This was well before my time but I recall reading about a major incident at the Warrens (was the Parkside Tavern and a Marsdens pub when I drank there in the 90s, hate to think what it is now..) in the late 70s when Saints weren't even playing. I think a local non-league side had a FA Cup replay at the Dell v Millwall and it kicked off big time with the locals who were having a Saturday afternoon beer or seven!

 

Can remember Millwall causing a lot of mayhem at the mid-80s FA Cup game - might have been 1985-6 - Saints won the replay. The big London clubs and Man U used to regularly have fans in the Milton and Upper West who didn't exactly hide when their team scored. Can't remember any major disturbances in the 80s beyond scuffling apart from one game with Everton 1987ish?

 

Remember that Millwall mid 80s one, as a youngster it was mesmerising and scary in equal measures, things died out in plain view by about the mid 90s, though Villa invading the pitch (and batman punching dowie), Forest at home and Cardiff reeking havoc around the common and the roads off the back of the archers also spring to mind as later examples.

 

Away there was also the spat with Pompey in Covent Garden that ended with a pub being cs gassed, the police turning up late and arresting everyone in sight including an old man drinking with his niece

 

That and the joiners, but that one's been done to death everywhere.

[Wade Garrett]

Proper naughty geezers opening each other up.

 

A golden period for Neanderthals who should have no place anywhere near football.

 

The long post by Turkish is comedy genius though. Fair play.

[Sydenhampton]

Back in the 00's we were involved in the Battle of Maze Hill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_of_Maze_Hill

 

I remember this well. I wasn't part of the event but was with many Saints fans at the game & in the Antigallican pub prior to it. Some Charlaton fans I know still don't like us because of this claiming Saints were the perpetrators and eventual victors, even though the article suggests otherwise and concludes to suggest mutual respect.

 

Mugs, the lot of 'em. Both sides.

[Saint Without a Halo]

Throughout the decades Southampton and football violence have been synonymous. Southampton has long held a fearsome reputation and long been regarded one of the most violent and notorious firms in football violence history. This reputation was largely formed in the seventies, The Milton Road end, along with the Shed at Chelsea, the chicken run at West Ham and the Stretford End at Manchester United remain the only ends that have never been taken by an opposing firm.

 

Into the 80s and the causal movement and as firms became more organised so Saints came into their own. Such was our reputation that sick of being battered everytime we met them, bitter enemies Millwall and Portsmouth joined forces to attack us in a 1985 cup game, whilst both clubs had sinister elements in their ranks even as a combined mob they were no match for the Saints and the firms were chased through Southampton back to St Denys, tails between their legs and teeth in the pits of their stomachs.

 

In 1984 chelsea were another club to tey their luck against our firm. They were Routed. time and spin from Chelsea goes that it was Chelsea that had the upper hand that day, but anyone there will tell you the sight of 250 chelsea fans runnning theough school fields and breaking into Springfield school to escape the baying, snarling mob of Saints was something to behold.

 

In the late 80s Nottingham Forest were another firm to try their luck with their notorious leader Paul Scarrott, at the time the self titled toughest hooligan in England leading them into battle. As was standard procedure by then Forest were destroyed in a crushing victory for the Saints in what became known as the Battle of Bedford Place, whcih afterwards resembled a scene from Braveheart and eye witnesses saying members of the public, including a 75 year old man and a pregnant women, as well as the Forest Executivr Crew, were running for thier lives. rumour has it Scarott was so traumatised at the vicious beating inflicted on he and His mob that day he never recovered and hit the booze to blank out the Memory. Sadly Scarott died several years later, the wounds still raw. RIP.

 

Pick up any hooligan book though and you will rarely see a mention of Southampton, for two reasons. Like all great war historians firm authors only like to record victories and few can claim such a feat when they meet the Saints. Another reason is such was our reputation it became known that taking a firm to Southampton was a suicide mission and something only the crazy would do, hence violence at the Dell receded to virtually non existing by the late 80s, simply due to the fear other clubs firms felt as soon as they uttered our name.

 

It's difficult to believe that as a city and club we could have gone from being the most terrifying away day in England to a stadium with dancing dogs and fancy dress. Some might call that progress but I wouldn't be so quick to agree. I for one am proud of my Southampton brothers at the reputation we had in a very different time and era.

 

Turkish you and I must have been at the same matches in the 70's and 80's! I didn't think you were that old!

[The Cat]

I'm sure a few people on here also remember that day at Maze Hill very well.

[teamsaint]

Great post from Turkish. Class.

[lil 1]

When did Saints mob start using the Archers?The first time i remember seeing one was against Sunderland in 1977/

[sotonjoe]

Football needs to drag itself out of the stone age and eradicate this nonsense once and for all. Grown men acting like children is nothing to be impressed by. I wonder why it's only poor people that do it.

[Miltonaggro]

Milton Do you remember in the late eighties / early nineties Chelsea turning up in BROCKENHURST ( Yes that was Brockenhurst) after the match. A certain @@@@ @@@@, arranged it. Blood bath on the road to the station. Proper Forest boys against football hooligans. The forest didn't so well that day.

 

Yes, that rings a bell Gemm, Chelsea and Leeds were always quite innovative. At that time I was further east, as in an eastern suburb of Soton. These days they would be more likely to find Chelsea 'fans' in the Forest and meet up for a 'pub lunch'.

 

A common mistake to make is to think that threads such as these glorify football violence / hooliganism call it what you will. The thing is, as a number of posters have made very clear, it was ubiquitous, part and parcel of the game through the 70s and up to Heysel and Hillsborough. Of course, you could choose to avoid it, but you couldn't ignore it. This was true also, of life in general - at certain gigs, on picket lines, at the Top Rank, or in the city centre (for wearing the wrong clothes or liking the wrong music) you were often fair game. Much of the trouble was linked to youth culture and for a lot of kids it was a frightening and thrilling escape - any 'violence' for most was minor and transient (which is something I see in my working life now). These days we don't have youth culture, we have surveillance and consumerism...

[Miltonaggro]

Good read that.

 

Cheers, I will let him know, needs cheering up after their recent managerial appointment.

[Bearsy]

Great post from Turkish. Class.

 

Yeah I thought so too. How much is truth? I thought Turks was just on a lol but villa bloke at work said he got a couple of good hidings down at the dell, back in the day

[kpturner]

I can only hope that all the posts condoning/glorifying hooliganism are taking the p*ss, not just Turkish.

 

I don't recall seeing any.

[TijuanaTim]

From a purely historic point Southampton and the Dell was very much part of the whole scene and were intrinsically linked. Nothing could be taken for granted. The town was a haven of nightlife and rival gangs from all over the place that would band together under, in front of and to the left of the 'chocolate boxes' on the Milton starting with the 'boot boys' in about 1967, then skinheads, suedeheads, smoothies and onto the post-punk 'casuals' which still exist in numbers these days.

 

I could do this more detailed, however, off the top of my head it was kinda like this in catagories.

 

Names/origins of some of the crews: The two most ominous were the massive Wimpson (aka Hatchet Men) and the small, yet extremely tasty Market Diner from St Marys. Weston, Portswood, Pylands, Sholing, Thornhill/Hightown, Shirley Warren and the Flower Roads all had their fair share of wrong 'uns. Along with that they'd be small bands from outlying areas like Hedge End, Eastleigh and even my 'frontline' manor out in the Western Wards of Fareham (Swanwick, Sarisbury, Titchfield Common) apologies to anyone over looked.

 

Names: Some of those that were to regarded cautiously had names like Killer, Bootsie, Charlie, Dougal, Malc, Jessie, Vic, Hoss, Gilo and Psycho...sorry cannot be any more specific than that.

 

Music: Firstly reggae, followed immediately by Stax and Tamla Motown. Later Philly and Northern. Jazz-Funk, Club then Acid and all the modern stuff.

 

Clobber: Funny enough it was stuff like army boots and believe or not crash helmets with Saints or SFC that were the first noticable things on the Milton. '68ish it was all Doc Marten's, Ben Sherman's, braces, hoiked up 501s, Harringtons, Sheepskin coats and cropped hair. Directly followed by Fred Perry's, Sta-prest, Tonics, bomber jackets, monkey boots, brogues and pork pie hats. As 72 came, hair was longer and the same 'lads' togged up in Rupert checks, wedge soled shoes, penny collars and leather coats with really baggy jeans. Everyone went their own ways until the 'Fred Perry' rudeboy revival in the late 70s which preceded the tidal wave of the casual movement with it's Trim Trabs, Lois jeans, ST, L&S, Pringle, Barbour coats, wedge cuts and mullets. Now we all know as it has progressed to the present time you can add Armani, SI, C.P. Company and a host of other designer...yet funny enough almost every 'retro' style/design is still kosher...well maybe except the 72 look?

 

Obvious Dangers: (Early days) Number One and over all others was always Man Utd's huge army of raggamuffins from all over the nation, Chelsea - sneaky lot, West Ham - diverse, older and very naughty, Leeds - bullies. (Later on) Millwall, Everton.

 

Be careful ofs: Spurs and pompee.

 

Over-rated: Liverpool, Arsenal, Geordies and most Midlanders.

 

Significant events (and surprises): (only home, so no Bristol, Oxford, Spurs, Ipswich, Marsielles, Limerick, Hamburg, Highbury, Bradford, Forest, pompee etc away jaunts)

Spurs and Arsenal being on their toes in the Milton.

70-71 Home to Chelsea - fans not with their colours, individuals being 'jumped', Hoss being acid-attacked.

Biggest away following I ever saw Saints 2 Man U 5, the Dell was over-run

Saints v West Ham pre-xmas 1971, the Milton was truly 'taken'

Stoke's surpise presence on a Tuesday night in Aug 72

War on relegation Saturday .v. United again in 74.

When we stuffed 4 past pompee in the 70s

One amazingly crazy pre-season game with a small, mental Hearts lot.

Millwall 1977 and again 1978

Leeds 1979

Brum 1985

Everton 1985

pompee 1988 urgh

 

As I said it's 'off the top of the head stuff' and absolutely not a glorification reflection...just a memory of bygone stuff. Anyone remember any of these observations as well?

[stanthemanfairoak]

From a purely historic point Southampton and the Dell was very much part of the whole scene and were intrinsically linked. Nothing could be taken for granted. The town was a haven of nightlife and rival gangs from all over the place that would band together under, in front of and to the left of the 'chocolate boxes' on the Milton starting with the 'boot boys' in about 1967, then skinheads, suedeheads, smoothies and onto the post-punk 'casuals' which still exist in numbers these days.

 

I could do this more detailed, however, off the top of my head it was kinda like this in catagories.

 

Names/origins of some of the crews: The two most ominous were the massive Wimpson (aka Hatchet Men) and the small, yet extremely tasty Market Diner from St Marys. Weston, Portswood, Pylands, Sholing, Thornhill/Hightown, Shirley Warren and the Flower Roads all had their fair share of wrong 'uns. Along with that they'd be small bands from outlying areas like Hedge End, Eastleigh and even my 'frontline' manor out in the Western Wards of Fareham (Swanwick, Sarisbury, Titchfield Common) apologies to anyone over looked.

 

Names: Some of those that were to regarded cautiously had names like Killer, Bootsie, Charlie, Dougal, Malc, Jessie, Vic, Hoss, Gilo and Psycho...sorry cannot be any more specific than that.

 

Music: Firstly reggae, followed immediately by Stax and Tamla Motown. Later Philly and Northern. Jazz-Funk, Club then Acid and all the modern stuff.

 

Clobber: Funny enough it was stuff like army boots and believe or not crash helmets with Saints or SFC that were the first noticable things on the Milton. '68ish it was all Doc Marten's, Ben Sherman's, braces, hoiked up 501s, Harringtons, Sheepskin coats and cropped hair. Directly followed by Fred Perry's, Sta-prest, Tonics, bomber jackets, monkey boots, brogues and pork pie hats. As 72 came, hair was longer and the same 'lads' togged up in Rupert checks, wedge soled shoes, penny collars and leather coats with really baggy jeans. Everyone went their own ways until the 'Fred Perry' rudeboy revival in the late 70s which preceded the tidal wave of the casual movement with it's Trim Trabs, Lois jeans, ST, L&S, Pringle, Barbour coats, wedge cuts and mullets. Now we all know as it has progressed to the present time you can add Armani, SI, C.P. Company and a host of other designer...yet funny enough almost every 'retro' style/design is still kosher...well maybe except the 72 look?

 

Obvious Dangers: (Early days) Number One and over all others was always Man Utd's huge army of raggamuffins from all over the nation, Chelsea - sneaky lot, West Ham - diverse, older and very naughty, Leeds - bullies. (Later on) Millwall, Everton.

 

Be careful ofs: Spurs and pompee.

 

Over-rated: Liverpool, Arsenal, Geordies and most Midlanders.

 

Significant events (and surprises): (only home, so no Bristol, Oxford, Spurs, Ipswich, Marsielles, Limerick, Hamburg, Highbury, Bradford, Forest, pompee etc away jaunts)

Spurs and Arsenal being on their toes in the Milton.

70-71 Home to Chelsea - fans not with their colours, individuals being 'jumped', Hoss being acid-attacked.

Biggest away following I ever saw Saints 2 Man U 5, the Dell was over-run

Saints v West Ham pre-xmas 1971, the Milton was truly 'taken'

Stoke's surpise presence on a Tuesday night in Aug 72

War on relegation Saturday .v. United again in 74.

When we stuffed 4 past pompee in the 70s

One amazingly crazy pre-season game with a small, mental Hearts lot.

Millwall 1977 and again 1978

Leeds 1979

Brum 1985

Everton 1985

pompee 1988 urgh

 

As I said it's 'off the top of the head stuff' and absolutely not a glorification reflection...just a memory of bygone stuff. Anyone remember any of these observations as well?

 

well they were the good times,now a wee bit to boreing for my likein.

[TijuanaTim]

well they were the good times,now a wee bit to boreing for my likein.

 

Sorry sir...forgot t'mention the Polygon/Beehive boys with their loafers and feather cuts!!