Barry Sanchez Posted 27 May, 2013 Share Posted 27 May, 2013 I'd agree with that. I'd also add that the white underclass in the Midland & Northern cities certainly don't help the situation. They dont help the situation but what they thay done to cause it? The working class hold out their hands and they are firmly wrapped by the eilte with low skilled employment and the constant cutting/lowering living standards of wages, the elite push them from the middle/left to the fringes, a class war created by the elite will put the working masses against each other, in turn driving down wages again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 27 May, 2013 Share Posted 27 May, 2013 I don't have time for the EDL and equally I do not have anytime for these Islamic extremists who preach hatred . Pap and co may spout on about westerner s killing Muslims but I don't hear them going on about Muslims killing each other week in week out look at Sunni on Shia Muslims . Whether Iraq , afghan Syria Pakistan Indonesia North Africa etc etc . There is a very worrying trend happening around the world . Look at that group of terrorist who attacked that hotel in India a few years ago in the name of Islam . I do however worry about some of the extreme ideology that is being spouted in some countries mainly in the Middle East . Again, doing what the EDL do - widening the argument to all of Islam to make some semblance of a point. I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make. Muslim countries have wars, so they are evil? If we start admitting countries to the axis of evil on that basis, it'll be a big club. I happen to agree with you that the incident in Mumbai was shocking, a true indication of the devastation that can be achieved when people are determined to go down fighting. I don't think we have to entertain similar worries here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 May, 2013 Share Posted 27 May, 2013 View . I don't subscribe to the Saudi concept . Sadden was a Sunni and despised Shias . I have my suspicions that Iran (Shia) is mainly behind many of the atrocities on innocent folk in Iraq now and not forgetting bin laden s hangers on Fundamentalism is a direct result of the Saudi petrodollars being used to fund religious schools across the Muslim world and those schools teaching hardline Wahhabism. The Sunni/Shia internecine killings are a different kettle of fish so let's not mix up the former with the latter but I'm with you on Iran's backing of the Shia's in Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 27 May, 2013 Share Posted 27 May, 2013 Again, doing what the EDL do - widening the argument to all of Islam to make some semblance of a point. I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make. Muslim countries have wars, so they are evil? If we start admitting countries to the axis of evil on that basis, it'll be a big club. I happen to agree with you that the incident in Mumbai was shocking, a true indication of the devastation that can be achieved when people are determined to go down fighting. I don't think we have to entertain similar worries here. Box, 6 , 5 and the security forces stand down, pap thinks we will be ok................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 May, 2013 Share Posted 27 May, 2013 I have never defined myself as a Christian/Protestant, why would or should I? Its simply a way of some not intergrating by saying something the majority are not. Because you haven't doesn't mean others shouldn't. You are simply making a point to fit your own viewpoint despite it being totally irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 May, 2013 Share Posted 27 May, 2013 They dont help the situation but what they thay done to cause it? The working class hold out their hands and they are firmly wrapped by the eilte with low skilled employment and the constant cutting/lowering living standards of wages, the elite push them from the middle/left to the fringes, a class war created by the elite will put the working masses against each other, in turn driving down wages again. I wasn't referring to the working class, but the under class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 27 May, 2013 Share Posted 27 May, 2013 (edited) I wasn't referring to the working class, but the under class. They are all citizens of this Country and their voice should (legitimately) be heard, a denial of that has got us to where we are. The working class are feeling like this as well, dont create further division. Edited 27 May, 2013 by Barry Sanchez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 27 May, 2013 Share Posted 27 May, 2013 Because you haven't doesn't mean others shouldn't. You are simply making a point to fit your own viewpoint despite it being totally irrelevant. Its entirely relevant hence myself making that point, you cant answer it so you call it irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 Southampton has never really been a truly multi cultural City, you in your sandals probably wish it so, even less in leafy Hampshire where many live and its even far less multi cultural there, I refered to do gooders who live in leafy suburbs or the Countryside and proclaim all is well in the land and yet have never seen Blackburn, Oldham and Rochdale. The Southern liberal elite saying all is good all is well and yet dont have a true and real grasp on the situation, Jack Straw does and has been shouted down by the Southern living elite for years. I really do have to disagree with you there. Southampton has long been a City built on its port and the movement of people. Throughout its history newcomers, be they French, Italians, Spanish, Afro-Caribbean, Asians from the sub continent (or Uganda), Maltese, Chinese, through to the newcomers from Eastern Africa & Eastern Europe have all made this City their home. Currently 1 in 8 are from an ethnic minority group, with that figure rising to 1 in 5 (or even 1 in 4) if you include those immigrants from Eastern Europe. i would accept it doesn't have the concentrations of specific places such as Oldham, Bradford and even London, but it is a multi cultural city with the many benefits that brings with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 It's an old one but still my favourite video of dune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints boy in Leeds Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 The EDL cannot be a racist group as they are campaigning against the religion and extremists, not the race. Are there any non whites in the EDL ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 Are there any non whites in the EDL ? They like to have a couple of Sikhs around to make it look good. Sikh's weren't too happy about that. http://www.turbancampaign.com/updates/sikh-community-issues-ultimatum-to-guramit-singh-denounce-edl-by-vaisakhi-or-face-excommunication/ Guramit Singh, former poster child for EDL's inclusiveness, ended up leaving a couple of months after the above ultimatum. http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/12859 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 Thankfully, Help for Heroes is returning donations from the EDL http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/may/27/help-for-heroes-english-defence-league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 Thankfully, Help for Heroes is returning donations from the EDL http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/may/27/help-for-heroes-english-defence-league "It is the same for any political party, we do not allow political fundraising. As a charity, we are non-political." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 "It is the same for any political party, we do not allow political fundraising. As a charity, we are non-political." Indeed, and rightly so. But hopefully it will stop the EDL trying to piggy back on this charity. Some photos of the EDL 'protests' showed an EDL banner cojoined with a Help the Heroes banner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 Similar I suppose to the way extremists have jumped onto the back of a religion. One mans choice is his Nation and the others is his religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 Enjoy the EDL's crushing defeat in York: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/27/york-mosque-protest-tea-biscuits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 Enjoy the EDL's crushing defeat in York: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/27/york-mosque-protest-tea-biscuits Very British of the mosque to offer tea and biscuits to the "demonstrators". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 Membership for the EDL has increased 1100% in 12 months! A recent rally | demo had minimum 5,000 attendees but the BBC reported only "a few hundred" why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 The EDL are wolves in sheeps clothing, thats obvious but if they are legal what can you do? There are as many proud law abiding patriots in their marches as there are proud and law abiding Muslims in counter demonstrations, neither side picks up on this, they just vilify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 Membership for the EDL has increased 1100% in 12 months! A recent rally | demo had minimum 5,000 attendees but the BBC reported only "a few hundred" why? Same reason they under-report every demo. They do not want people to know the scale of the dissent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 Because the BBC has always had a leftist agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 Because the BBC has always had a leftist agenda. The BBC and indeed channel 4 should stop interviewing these radical hate preachers and even worse, stop having them on in the studio One thing that has helped in Northern Ireland is that the press in general will not give publicity to bad things that still happen over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 Membership for the EDL has increased 1100% in 12 months! A recent rally | demo had minimum 5,000 attendees but the BBC reported only "a few hundred" why? Who said? the BBC won't have someone there just to count people. They will simply quote the Police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 The BBC and indeed channel 4 should stop interviewing these radical hate preachers and even worse, stop having them on in the studio One thing that has helped in Northern Ireland is that the press in general will not give publicity to bad things that still happen over there. No I think you should put light on all, they should grill them more, a Paxman style would rip through them, we consistently show them as the underdog and struggling to find a voice, show them as what they are, advocates of terrorism in their own land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holepuncture Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 Enjoy the EDL's crushing defeat in York: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/27/york-mosque-protest-tea-biscuits I think it is a real strong show from both sides here, fair play to the mosque lot for publically welcoming anyone who is against extremism, and fair play to the edl lot for accepting the invitation and opening up dialogue. This is exactly what many of us want to see happening, this is only a good thing in my eyes. Well done edl, limp wristed extreme lefts wouldnt have ever managed such dialogue IMO, this shows how much good can come of people showing some concern for their community. Very British of the mosque to offer tea and biscuits to the "demonstrators". Indeed, a show of class and a shining example of integration, tea and biscuits at a UK mosque discussing local affairs with the indigenous, very good to see. Now we need more mosques to open up and condemn what these extremists carry out in the name of islam. Same reason they under-report every demo. They do not want people to know the scale of the dissent. It is certainly a covert uprising in its infancy, trouble is if everything is under-reported now, it will come as a massive shock when groups like the edl go public themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 you never know what actually happened behind the camera, but if you took this at face value, it is a very common reason why people have had enough https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=4817231950470 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 you never know what actually happened behind the camera, but if you took this at face value, it is a very common reason why people have had enough https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=4817231950470 Always best to provide the full picture but a lot of people can't be bothered and instead want to feel outraged by things that didn't actually happen. Facebook posting - "pregnant woman arrested for carrying Union Jack" when it was quite a bit different: GMP did not arrest a pregnant woman during tensions in Oldham on Saturday, and no Union Flag was confiscated from her. Chief Superintendent Catherine Hankinson said: "Yesterday (Saturday) afternoon, police became aware that a number of people had gathered in Oldham town centre who were shouting and had flags, some of which were provoking passersby. "As a result there were tensions and some minor disorder. "While we will always allow and help facilitate peaceful protest, we felt that the actions of these people threatened our community cohesion, so it was our duty to do all we could prevent tensions from escalating. "Officers dealing with this altercation saw that a woman had a Union Flag and another flag which was highly inappropriate and in our view solely designed to further inflame tensions. "This woman was therefore taken to one side, the second flag was taken from her and she understood that the flag was causing offence. "At no point was she arrested, or did she have her Union Flag confiscated from her." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 The BBC and indeed channel 4 should stop interviewing these radical hate preachers and even worse, stop having them on in the studio One thing that has helped in Northern Ireland is that the press in general will not give publicity to bad things that still happen over there. In a balanced and fair society, you have to give equal credence to everyone, regardless of how distasteful their opinions might be. Most people are intelligent and thoughtful enough to realise when somebody is talking a load of bitter, sensationalist b*llocks, and don't need media censorship to make up their minds for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-22689552 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 Its entirely relevant hence myself making that point, you cant answer it so you call it irrelevant. Rubbish. I know a headteacher who defines himself as Catholic before anything else. By your definition he isn't integrated. One of my best & oldest friends has always defined himself as a Buddhist. Is he not integrated? I define myself as a Saints fan first, does that mean I'm not integrated as I've not said English first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 Is this going to get worse or better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 In a balanced and fair society, you have to give equal credence to everyone, regardless of how distasteful their opinions might be. Most people are intelligent and thoughtful enough to realise when somebody is talking a load of bitter, sensationalist b*llocks, and don't need media censorship to make up their minds for them. Sorry, don't agree People of all colours, races should not be allowed to preach death on the streets and certainly not given a national microphone Or stuff like Woolwich will happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 Is this going to get worse or better Of all the islamuslismst attacks here and abroad, this has to be the most shocking IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 Sorry, don't agree People of all colours, races should not be allowed to preach death on the streets and certainly not given a national microphone Or stuff like Woolwich will happen Its a bit more complicated than that - otherwise you'd have advocates of war in Afghanistan or Syria up on a charge. Libyan cruise missile launching submariners in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 (edited) Its a bit more complicated than that - otherwise you'd have advocates of war in Afghanistan or Syria up on a charge. Libyan cruise missile launching submariners in court. Err, ok The next time the government takes legal intervention and starts hacking the heads off squaddies in broad day light in London. Then people who advocate that will have a point Sometimes, you don't have to take everything to the nth degree Edited 28 May, 2013 by Batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 Err, ok You haven't thought it through. Its extremely difficult to draft laws that deal with the baddies of the day without criminalising a wide group of other people who express views in a democracy. The people who object to this bill aren't necessarily liberals, its about maintaining freedoms and not having them removed in the name of security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 You haven't thought it through. Its extremely difficult to draft laws that deal with the baddies of the day without criminalising a wide group of other people who express views in a democracy. The people who object to this bill aren't necessarily liberals, its about maintaining freedoms and not having them removed in the name of security. Actually it is. Then how come you are not allowed to incite "hate" as it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 how come you are not allowed to incite "hate" as it Another bad law I disagree with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 Another bad law I disagree with So, you think there should be free reign to say what you like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 So, you think there should be free reign to say what you like? Pretty much, yes. You should be able to hold any opinion and express that opinion freely and publicly. You shouldn't however be able to incite actual action - which would continue to be illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 28 May, 2013 Share Posted 28 May, 2013 (edited) Rubbish. I know a headteacher who defines himself as Catholic before anything else. By your definition he isn't integrated. One of my best & oldest friends has always defined himself as a Buddhist. Is he not integrated? I define myself as a Saints fan first, does that mean I'm not integrated as I've not said English first? Your headteacher is 500 years late, you define yourself by a football team you support? You define yourself by your thoughts and actions. Edited 28 May, 2013 by Barry Sanchez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 29 May, 2013 Share Posted 29 May, 2013 http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/may/28/anonymous-edl-supporters-information?CMP=twt_gu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 May, 2013 Share Posted 29 May, 2013 A tad difficult to stop a protest movement, one that may spread dissent but one that is legal, have they operated outside the law? Have the hackers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 31 May, 2013 Share Posted 31 May, 2013 http://www.ironicsurrealism.com/2013/05/31/2009-flashback-uaf-protesting-the-edl-alongside-woolwich-islamic-jihadist-butcher-michael-adebolajo-video/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 31 May, 2013 Share Posted 31 May, 2013 http://www.ironicsurrealism.com/2013/05/31/2009-flashback-uaf-protesting-the-edl-alongside-woolwich-islamic-jihadist-butcher-michael-adebolajo-video/ So the UAF are supported by active terrorists, lets see Solent Stars spin this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 31 May, 2013 Share Posted 31 May, 2013 http://www.ironicsurrealism.com/2013/05/31/2009-flashback-uaf-protesting-the-edl-alongside-woolwich-islamic-jihadist-butcher-michael-adebolajo-video/ Interesting link, caped crusader (in the medieval age sense, of course ). I do find it sickly amusing, that from a pure headline perspective, a democratic government might end up banning a group called Unite Against Fascists in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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