Pre conceived ideas of the EDL.....

[View From The Top]

But the EDL is about more than just high profile acts of Islamic extremism that have taken place in this country. It's also against the day to day islamification of many of the towns and cities that EDL supporters come from. The UK's foreign policy is going to do little to change that either way.

 

I accept that they pronounce on that now but the EDL is a direct result of militant Islam, born out of the anti-army protests in Luton. They didn't exist before that and that anti-army protests were a direct result of our governments foreign policy.

[Sour Mash]

I accept that they pronounce on that now but the EDL is a direct result of militant Islam, born out of the anti-army protests in Luton. They didn't exist before that and that anti-army protests were a direct result of our governments foreign policy.

That's where they sprung up from as an organised group, but the feelings and opinions of many of the group's supporters have been simmering for a fair while before. It's like most things in history, you have immediate catalysts and more long term causes. It's just brought things to the surface and public attention a lot more.

[pap]

What are you talking about? Who has suggested more people are becoming Muslims? Where have I said I have a problem with anything? I am explaining one of the reasons for the rise and support of the EDL and not just the acts of terrorism and violence carried out by extremists. Look at the riots that happened in Oldham, Bradford, Burnley and Leeds in the summer of 2001.

 

Can you please then, describe what you mean by Islamification?

[Sour Mash]

Can you please then, describe what you mean by Islamification?

The perception by many that areas have been taken over by muslims and islamic culture - halal butchers, muslim book-shops, women in burkas, muslim schools, signs in Urdu etc. Whether you think it's happened or not and whether you think it's a good or bad thing doesn't matter - it's the perception of many of the white working class people from these cities that their culture and communities are under threat which has led to the rise of things like the EDL as much as the major news-grabbing stories such as terrorist activities, which are more the spark rather than the long-term cause.

[bridge too far]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-22665571

[Turkish]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-22665571

 

What?

[pap]

The perception by many that areas have been taken over by muslims and islamic culture - halal butchers, muslim book-shops, women in burkas, muslim schools, signs in Urdu etc. Whether you think it's happened or not and whether you think it's a good or bad thing doesn't matter - it's the perception of many of the white working class people from these cities that their culture and communities are under threat which has led to the rise of things like the EDL as much as the major news-grabbing stories such as terrorist activities, which are more the spark rather than the long-term cause.

 

First off, you're better off going to a halal butcher than a normal butcher imo. Besides, it's not like these places have been ten-a-penny. I remember going down to International Meats on Derby Road every week for years to get meat as a youngster, and we lived on the Flower Road Estate. I can well accept there may be a few more around these days, but that's surely to be expected with the rise in demand. This is a classic example of ignorance creating a problem that doesn't exist. What is your problem with halal meat, specifically? I can accept that if you are a bacon lover, you're going to be sh!t out of luck in a halal store. You might have a problem with the ritualistic aspects of the killing. I don't. I have a halal store down the road and use it all the time. Excellent quality meat.

 

Clear case of ignorance presented as grievance. Incompatible with British life? Hardly.

 

You point to Muslim schools as a problem. Shall we close them all down as a solution? What about the numerous other faith schools? Do the Jewish ones have to go too? What about the Roman Catholic schools?

 

I don't want to be a tw*t and ignore your point about burkas. I'm deeply at odds with that, and I do think that in general, women get a pretty crappy deal from Islam. Then I remember that it is only recently that we stopped treating our sisters like second-class citizens. That doesn't make "traditional" Islamic countries irredeemably evil; it just means they have got a way to go before they have the sort of parity that women have in this country.

 

The perceived communities of the EDL are not at risk because of Islamic fundamentalism in this country, no matter what they claim. Unfailingly, they have to yank the worst of Islam from around the world to prove their case, which immediately shows that their UK-based concerns aren't justified. I'm all in favour of having an honest dialogue about specific points of pressure. The problem with the EDL is that judging from the comments of their leadership alone, they are so spectacularly ill-informed that they're never going to be able to be part of any conciliatory process.

 

"Send them all back" just ain't going to cut it, I'm afraid.

[aintforever]

First off, you're better off going to a halal butcher than a normal butcher imo. Besides, it's not like these places have been ten-a-penny. I remember going down to International Meats on Derby Road every week for years to get meat as a youngster, and we lived on the Flower Road Estate. I can well accept there may be a few more around these days, but that's surely to be expected with the rise in demand. This is a classic example of ignorance creating a problem that doesn't exist. What is your problem with halal meat, specifically? I can accept that if you are a bacon lover, you're going to be sh!t out of luck in a halal store. You might have a problem with the ritualistic aspects of the killing. I don't. I have a halal store down the road and use it all the time. Excellent quality meat.

 

Clear case of ignorance presented as grievance. Incompatible with British life? Hardly.

 

You point to Muslim schools as a problem. Shall we close them all down as a solution? What about the numerous other faith schools? Do the Jewish ones have to go too? What about the Roman Catholic schools?

 

I don't want to be a tw*t and ignore your point about burkas. I'm deeply at odds with that, and I do think that in general, women get a pretty crappy deal from Islam. Then I remember that it is only recently that we stopped treating our sisters like second-class citizens. That doesn't make "traditional" Islamic countries irredeemably evil; it just means they have got a way to go before they have the sort of parity that women have in this country.

 

The perceived communities of the EDL are not at risk because of Islamic fundamentalism in this country, no matter what they claim. Unfailingly, they have to yank the worst of Islam from around the world to prove their case, which immediately shows that their UK-based concerns aren't justified. I'm all in favour of having an honest dialogue about specific points of pressure. The problem with the EDL is that judging from the comments of their leadership alone, they are so spectacularly ill-informed that they're never going to be able to be part of any conciliatory process.

 

"Send them all back" just ain't going to cut it, I'm afraid.

 

I disagree, I couldn't get out of Luton quick enough last time I went there. It's not that there is anything particularly wrong with their culture, it just isn't what I like. I would f*cking hate it if I lived there and don't blame people, especially the elderly for getting the hump.

[Sour Mash]

First off, you're better off going to a halal butcher than a normal butcher imo. Besides, it's not like these places have been ten-a-penny. I remember going down to International Meats on Derby Road every week for years to get meat as a youngster, and we lived on the Flower Road Estate. I can well accept there may be a few more around these days, but that's surely to be expected with the rise in demand. This is a classic example of ignorance creating a problem that doesn't exist. What is your problem with halal meat, specifically? I can accept that if you are a bacon lover, you're going to be sh!t out of luck in a halal store. You might have a problem with the ritualistic aspects of the killing. I don't. I have a halal store down the road and use it all the time. Excellent quality meat.

 

Clear case of ignorance presented as grievance. Incompatible with British life? Hardly.

 

You point to Muslim schools as a problem. Shall we close them all down as a solution? What about the numerous other faith schools? Do the Jewish ones have to go too? What about the Roman Catholic schools?

 

I don't want to be a tw*t and ignore your point about burkas. I'm deeply at odds with that, and I do think that in general, women get a pretty crappy deal from Islam. Then I remember that it is only recently that we stopped treating our sisters like second-class citizens. That doesn't make "traditional" Islamic countries irredeemably evil; it just means they have got a way to go before they have the sort of parity that women have in this country.

 

The perceived communities of the EDL are not at risk because of Islamic fundamentalism in this country, no matter what they claim. Unfailingly, they have to yank the worst of Islam from around the world to prove their case, which immediately shows that their UK-based concerns aren't justified. I'm all in favour of having an honest dialogue about specific points of pressure. The problem with the EDL is that judging from the comments of their leadership alone, they are so spectacularly ill-informed that they're never going to be able to be part of any conciliatory process.

 

"Send them all back" just ain't going to cut it, I'm afraid.

Wow, what a waste of your time. You've completely missed the point.

[Saint in Paradise]

Extreme Muslim leaders do not have the same mind set that so called Western leaders do.

Ordinary Muslims, when push comes to shove and I do mean when not if, will have no

option whatsoever but to do what they are told to do or suffer major nasty consequences.

No matter how people try and say that Muslims are tolerant towards non-Muslims they

are only being so for as long as it suits them to do so. One day within the next 50 to 100 years

the extremist Muslims will declare all out war on all non-Muslims and your way of life will alter for

the worse. All of the work that women have done to gain equality with men will be instantly regarded

as no longer acceptable and women will be back in the Dark Ages.

 

I am so pleased that I won't be alive to see it happen.

[pap]

Wow, what a waste of your time. You've completely missed the point.

 

Super stuff, Sour! I can well see how your usual "one line" approach would be at odds with paragraphs. You ever tried Twitter, mate? Really small messages. I think you'd like it.

 

As for it being a waste of my time, worry not. Seeing you come back and offer your "point" was all the reward I'll ever need.

 

x

[JustMike]

Lets keep this on topic and less of the *****ing at each other please

[holepuncture]

However, the EDL are also wholly irrelevant. Even if their pathetic demos have temporarily spiked in number, their behaviour on the streets will alienate anyone with reasonable objections to make against Islamic extremism, and the EDL will quickly shrink back down again to its criminal hard core.

 

If an Islamic nutter hacks an innocent soldier down in my street or neighbourhood, I will back the EDL if they make a show of support for the area.

[TheCholulaKid]

If an Islamic nutter hacks an innocent soldier down in my street or neighbourhood, I will back the EDL if they make a show of support for the area.

 

Classy.

 

From the EDL march on Whitehall this afternoon: http://twitter.yfrog.com/od2hjqysj?sa=0

[pap]

Classy.

 

From the EDL march on Whitehall this afternoon: http://twitter.yfrog.com/od2hjqysj?sa=0

 

Heiling a taxi, apparently.

[Verbal]

If an Islamic nutter hacks an innocent soldier down in my street or neighbourhood, I will back the EDL if they make a show of support for the area.

 

I’m sure you would. Would you think differently if it turns out that an EDL-related thug were responsible for the brutal murder of Mohammad Saleem? I doubt it. The broader point is that a ‘cultural contamination’ theme unites the EDL and their Brown-shirted ancestors. While the Brown Shirts consisted of violent mobs attacking Jews as the enemy within, the EDL beat the crap out of Asian – any Asian – shopkeepers, women, and deface and destroy their property. The EDL has even issued threats against school children and college students protesting against tuition fees!

 

If that’s your bag, that, as they say, is your problem. Keep in mind that the lineage goes like this: National Front >British National Party>EDL. The only change in this evolution is that far-right extremists, taking a leaf out of UKIP’s book, have realised they can stir up more reaction by campaigning on a single issue. All the other baggage that goes with being on the far-right is all there in the EDL.

 

Sour Mash’s point about Islamisation is slightly different and is right for the wrong reasons. The term itself was coined by the Pakistani dictator Zia ul Haq, in the 1970s. In return huge amounts of cash – billions of dollars – from the Saudi regime, Zia undertook a programme that generously funded a nationwide network of radicalizing madrassas, ‘Islamised’ the army and setting up the proxy Jihadists in Kashmir. He also introduced Sharia law, which included the infamous Hudood and Zina Ordinances, under which rape victims were assumed to be guilt of adultery. The punishment they faced ranged from flogging to stoning to death. 15,000 rape victims were imprisoned and punished by the Zia regime. And Zia introduced the blasphemy laws that continue to cause huge misery to religious minorities in Pakistan.

 

This ‘Islamisation’ has seeped into the Pakistani/Kashmiri community, as well as others, here. For example, 75% of marriages among Muslims in the UK are religious-only affairs. This means that when a couple divorces – which is surprisingly common – the woman is left with no rights and no means of supporting herself. (My wife, who is a Muslim, worked for a charity for a few years that tried to pick up the awful mess left behind by religious-only marriages.) Islamisation is also, I’d argue, responsible for the kind of infantilisation of young men that leads to the child abuse scandals.

 

Islamisation in the UK among Pakistani Muslims in particular has meant that while moderates do exist among them, they are in a (still substantial) minority. You are much more likely to hear what in any context would be extreme views, especially directed at Jews.

 

This needs to be moderated, but obviously the majority of people espousing such views are not about to become Jihadists.

 

Jihadists are a quite different breed. They are members of a death cult – who see the rewards of the afterlife as a narcissistic justification for the terror they conduct in this life. They are invariably young and almost always disconnected from the conflicts they claim has radicalised them. (For all his rantings about Afghanistan and Iraq, the Woolwich killer’s actual history of ‘Jihad’ actually involved trying to struggle himself and others into Somalia to kill fellow Muslims, in a conflict in which the West has no part.)

 

These death cultists revel in the blood of others. Beheading is a speciality. Here’s Lawrence Wright, in The Looming Tower, talking about the Luxor massacre of Western tourists in 1997:

 

The majority of victims – thirty-five of them – were Swiss; others came from Japan, Germany, The United Kingdom, France, Bulgaria, and Columbia. Seventeen other tourists and nine Egyptians were wounded. One Swiss woman had seen her father’s head cut off in front of her eyes.

 

In February 2002, the Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and then, in a gruesome video, beheaded, allegedly by the 9/11 ‘mastermind’ (such the wrong word) Khaled Sheikh Mohammad.

 

Of course, the only regime that carries out this kind of barbaric act, and in public, is Saudi Arabia, whose Wahhabi ideology was exported to Pakistan by Zia in the first place. There were 26 public beheadings at the last count in SA 2011, for a range of offences including murder, adultery and apostasy (renouncing your faith).

 

So if you want to deal with the kind of extremism you saw in Woolwich, start at the source: Saudi Arabia.

 

Wahhabism has corrupted the soul of Islam, and the Woolwich murderers were just the latest example of it.

 

The EDL corrupts and obstructs any real attempt to tackle the problem of death-cult extremism at source, and instead creates yet more victims and more division.

[View From The Top]

 

So if you want to deal with the kind of extremism you saw in Woolwich, start at the source: Saudi Arabia.

 

Wahhabism has corrupted the soul of Islam, and the Woolwich murderers were just the latest example of it.

 

The EDL corrupts and obstructs any real attempt to tackle the problem of death-cult extremism at source, and instead creates yet more victims and more division.

 

Now that is bang on the money.

[bridge too far]

Surely, Verbal and VFTT no British government would challenge / criticise Saudi Arabia - we've got too many trade interests there, haven't we?

[aintforever]

The EDL corrupts and obstructs any real attempt to tackle the problem of death-cult extremism at source, and instead creates yet more victims and more division.

 

The EDL are a bunch of racist nutjobs but at least they might put pressure on the muslim community to sort out their problem or pressure the government to stop treading on eggshells around the issue.

 

The bloke didn't chop the soldiers head off because of far right groups like the EDL or BNP, it was because of the UK's foreign policy. The BNP is totally against interfering in the Middle East - if our government followed their policy in this area that poor soldier and many others would still be alive.

[pap]

The EDL are a bunch of racist nutjobs but at least they might put pressure on the muslim community to sort out their problem or pressure the government to stop treading on eggshells around the issue.

 

The bloke didn't chop the soldiers head off because of far right groups like the EDL or BNP, it was because of the UK's foreign policy. The BNP is totally against interfering in the Middle East - if our government followed their policy in this area that poor soldier and many others would still be alive.

 

As you say, foreign policy lies at the heart of the issue. I know that this annoys the hell out of forces/jingoistic types, but under any independent assessment of either "War On Terror", the US and UK look like aggressors, and that's because we were. The situation won't begin to be fixed until some public body acknowledges the truth of the matter. Our governments have made some very poor decisions concerning its involvement in the Middle East, including outright deception for the war on Iraq.

 

Much like any other old wound, it will not heal easily and ultimately, it's going to take a British Prime Minister to stand in front of Parliament and apologise for our conduct. I really don't see that happening anytime soon, especially as the US don't seem too keen on doing so either.

 

We seem to be going the other way. A few of us were chortling at the Americans the other week for their cries of USA, USA when the last Tsarneav brother was apprehended. I'd argue that what we saw last week was even uglier. Seems like anyone with a racist bone in their body took to the public Internet to wave it about.

 

I wouldn't mind, but for a lot of them, there is absolutely no notion of cause and effect. Some are unable to link our heinous actions in Afghanistan and Iraq (if you can stomach it, go seek out some pictures what our "heroes" achieved with Iraqi kids). It is simple good vs evil for a lot of them.

 

Interesting that the BNP's policy is against interference in the Middle East. I'd agree with them on that, at least. It'd be interesting to see how big of a Muslim threat we have domestically when we stop killing them around the world.

[View From The Top]

As you say, foreign policy lies at the heart of the issue. I know that this annoys the hell out of forces/jingoistic types, but under any independent assessment of either "War On Terror", the US and UK look like aggressors, and that's because we were. The situation won't begin to be fixed until some public body acknowledges the truth of the matter. Our governments have made some very poor decisions concerning its involvement in the Middle East, including outright deception for the war on Iraq.

 

Much like any other old wound, it will not heal easily and ultimately, it's going to take a British Prime Minister to stand in front of Parliament and apologise for our conduct. I really don't see that happening anytime soon, especially as the US don't seem too keen on doing so either.

 

We seem to be going the other way. A few of us were chortling at the Americans the other week for their cries of USA, USA when the last Tsarneav brother was apprehended. I'd argue that what we saw last week was even uglier. Seems like anyone with a racist bone in their body took to the public Internet to wave it about.

 

I wouldn't mind, but for a lot of them, there is absolutely no notion of cause and effect. Some are unable to link our heinous actions in Afghanistan and Iraq (if you can stomach it, go seek out some pictures what our "heroes" achieved with Iraqi kids). It is simple good vs evil for a lot of them.

 

Interesting that the BNP's policy is against interference in the Middle East. I'd agree with them on that, at least. It'd be interesting to see how big of a Muslim threat we have domestically when we stop killing them around the world.

 

 

Boll.oxs does it. Plenty of us forces types know damn well it's UK foreign policy that's the root cause.

 

Us forces types tend to be clued up as it's us that end up getting shot at.

[holepuncture]

I’m sure you would. Would you think differently if it turns out that an EDL-related thug were responsible for the brutal murder of Mohammad Saleem? I doubt it.

 

Of course I would think differently, absolutely shameful remark there from you. My point hypothetical point was I would support a group of British people who if came out to support my neighbourhood following a barbaric attack such as Woolwich, I would stand by them.

 

Sour Mash’s point about Islamisation is slightly different and is right for the wrong reasons. The term itself was coined by the Pakistani dictator Zia ul Haq, in the 1970s. In return huge amounts of cash – billions of dollars – from the Saudi regime, Zia undertook a programme that generously funded a nationwide network of radicalizing madrassas, ‘Islamised’ the army and setting up the proxy Jihadists in Kashmir. He also introduced Sharia law, which included the infamous Hudood and Zina Ordinances, under which rape victims were assumed to be guilt of adultery. The punishment they faced ranged from flogging to stoning to death. 15,000 rape victims were imprisoned and punished by the Zia regime. And Zia introduced the blasphemy laws that continue to cause huge misery to religious minorities in Pakistan.

 

This ‘Islamisation’ has seeped into the Pakistani/Kashmiri community, as well as others, here. For example, 75% of marriages among Muslims in the UK are religious-only affairs. This means that when a couple divorces – which is surprisingly common – the woman is left with no rights and no means of supporting herself. (My wife, who is a Muslim, worked for a charity for a few years that tried to pick up the awful mess left behind by religious-only marriages.) Islamisation is also, I’d argue, responsible for the kind of infantilisation of young men that leads to the child abuse scandals.

 

Islamisation in the UK among Pakistani Muslims in particular has meant that while moderates do exist among them, they are in a (still substantial) minority. You are much more likely to hear what in any context would be extreme views, especially directed at Jews.

 

This needs to be moderated, but obviously the majority of people espousing such views are not about to become Jihadists.

 

Jihadists are a quite different breed. They are members of a death cult – who see the rewards of the afterlife as a narcissistic justification for the terror they conduct in this life. They are invariably young and almost always disconnected from the conflicts they claim has radicalised them. (For all his rantings about Afghanistan and Iraq, the Woolwich killer’s actual history of ‘Jihad’ actually involved trying to struggle himself and others into Somalia to kill fellow Muslims, in a conflict in which the West has no part.)

 

These death cultists revel in the blood of others. Beheading is a speciality. Here’s Lawrence Wright, in The Looming Tower, talking about the Luxor massacre of Western tourists in 1997:

 

 

 

In February 2002, the Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and then, in a gruesome video, beheaded, allegedly by the 9/11 ‘mastermind’ (such the wrong word) Khaled Sheikh Mohammad.

 

Of course, the only regime that carries out this kind of barbaric act, and in public, is Saudi Arabia, whose Wahhabi ideology was exported to Pakistan by Zia in the first place. There were 26 public beheadings at the last count in SA 2011, for a range of offences including murder, adultery and apostasy (renouncing your faith).

 

So if you want to deal with the kind of extremism you saw in Woolwich, start at the source: Saudi Arabia.

 

Wahhabism has corrupted the soul of Islam, and the Woolwich murderers were just the latest example of it.

 

The EDL corrupts and obstructs any real attempt to tackle the problem of death-cult extremism at source, and instead creates yet more victims and more division.

 

FFS please keep all of this barbaric nonsense out of my civilised country... we do not need this nor do we want it, this may seem normal culture out there, but we have a different level of respect for life, dignity and human rights.

 

I'd argue that what we saw last week was even uglier. Seems like anyone with a racist bone in their body took to the public Internet to wave it about.

 

I don't understand why people keep suggesting this is a race issue? This is about a corrupt religious system designed to radicalise people. And yes last week was ugly, two somalians hacked a British soldier to death in our capital city in broad daylight, though you are more concerned with peoples expressions of grief, disbelief and fear to the kinds of scum we seemingly have let slip onto our land.

 

It'd be interesting to see how big of a Muslim threat we have domestically when we stop killing them around the world.

 

That is half the reason we occupy the middle east IMO, keep the scum in there own turf, stop the corrupt ideology spreading to our Kingdom, a real middle class NIMBY approach you might say.

[Glasgow_Saint]

 

And more to the point, what exactly do the EDL hope to achieve by their demonstration? It's not going to bring Drummer Rigby back is it.

 

Pathetic!!

[Sheaf Saint]

Pathetic!!

 

I'm sorry... If you have issue with what I posted then please at least tell me what it is so we can debate it properly.

 

You could maybe start by answering the question if you like: What exactly do the EDL hope to achieve with their latest demonstration?

 

Edit: Oh hang on, it's you isn't it... the self-confessed WUM. In which case, maybe don't bother responding eh.

Edited 27 May, 2013 by Sheaf Saint

[pap]

Of course I would think differently, absolutely shameful remark there from you. My point hypothetical point was I would support a group of British people who if came out to support my neighbourhood following a barbaric attack such as Woolwich, I would stand by them.

 

FFS please keep all of this barbaric nonsense out of my civilised country... we do not need this nor do we want it, this may seem normal culture out there, but we have a different level of respect for life, dignity and human rights.

 

I don't understand why people keep suggesting this is a race issue? This is about a corrupt religious system designed to radicalise people. And yes last week was ugly, two somalians hacked a British soldier to death in our capital city in broad daylight, though you are more concerned with peoples expressions of grief, disbelief and fear to the kinds of scum we seemingly have let slip onto our land.

 

That is half the reason we occupy the middle east IMO, keep the scum in there own turf, stop the corrupt ideology spreading to our Kingdom, a real middle class NIMBY approach you might say.

 

I don't think you're doing too well on the whole "EDL isn't racist" thing when you characterise entire regions of the world as scum.

 

History shows that this won't stop happening until we've addressed the underlying causes. I think for you, and most of the EDL, the problem is that Muslims are here in the first place. I don't buy the spectre of Islamification they're selling, especially as they have to import problems in to have anything resembling a valid point. You might point to the attack in Woolwich as proof that these attitudes are taking hold. In reality, it's an isolated incident.

 

Politicians will still use this exceptional incident to scare you out of your day-to-day rights, which will disappear without you even noticing or complaining. There's a mad rush to give Parliamentary time to the Internet snooping-bill post-Woolwich, which effectively means it'll get rushed through with far less scrutiny than it deserves.

 

How do they get away with it? Simple. They just need enough simple morons pointing the finger at everyone else. They must really love the EDL.

[Barry Sanchez]

I'm confused in these posts, is this discussion about "Islamification" or social intergration into the mainstream population?

[saint lard]

I'm more tolerant of the EDL,than the like of Anjem Choudary.

 

I apologise if that is wrong in some people's eyes.

 

We are in a struggle to hold on to our national identity,and this is being wrestled from our grasp by Islamic fundementalists.

this is wrong.

eventually we will see that political correctness and trying to appease all,will have to cease......direct action will be nesessary...I hope not in my lifetime,or my sons.

multiculturalism really doesn't work....but we are being told it does and is something we should be proud of........that,my friends is rubbish.

 

its a dark future we are heading towards.

[Barry Sanchez]

Multi culturism is what exactly? It sure has not worked where the highest populace of people from overseas origin live, Bradford, Dewsbury, Leicester, Rochdale, Oldham, Blackburn and Preston, maybe the middle classes from overseas have fully assimliated due to high education standards and simliar western tastes?

 

Maybe this in Surrey is what the liberal elite refer to as a successful multi culturism program, having an Egyptian/Iraqi/Pakistani ex pat over for coffee in the conservatory..................

[ecuk268]

And yes last week was ugly, two somalians hacked a British soldier to death in our capital city in broad daylight, though you are more concerned with peoples expressions of grief, disbelief and fear to the kinds of scum we seemingly have let slip onto our land.

 

No, two Englishmen did it. Both born in the UK, educated in the UK and one from a strict Christian family.

[Verbal]

I'm more tolerant of the EDL,than the like of Anjem Choudary.

 

I apologise if that is wrong in some people's eyes.

 

We are in a struggle to hold on to our national identity,and this is being wrestled from our grasp by Islamic fundementalists.

this is wrong.

eventually we will see that political correctness and trying to appease all,will have to cease......direct action will be nesessary...I hope not in my lifetime,or my sons.

multiculturalism really doesn't work....but we are being told it does and is something we should be proud of........that,my friends is rubbish.

 

its a dark future we are heading towards.

 

Just to add some context here, there have been around 20,000 fatalities from car accidents in the UK since the tube and bus attacks on 7 July 2005. In that same period there has been just 1 fatality from terrorism on UK soil. Anjem Choudary is a vicious, corrupted individual whose influence is deeply malign. He is also hopelessly unsuccessful.

 

The reason that number is so low has nothing to do with the neo-Nazis in the EDL and everything to do with some pretty effective intelligence-gathering and counter-terrorism work. One death in eight years, as awful and tragic as it certainly is, hardly foretells a 'dark future'. And actually, the manner of the attack on Lee Rigby shows just how far terrorists have sunk in their capabilities since 2001.

[Glasgow_Saint]

I'm sorry... If you have issue with what I posted then please at least tell me what it is so we can debate it properly.

 

You could maybe start by answering the question if you like: What exactly do the EDL hope to achieve with their latest demonstration?

 

Edit: Oh hang on, it's you isn't it... the self-confessed WUM. In which case, maybe don't bother responding eh.

 

Oh dear

 

The point is to raise awareness, a message that people are passionate, tired and want something done. Doing nothing is "pointless"

[Barry Sanchez]

No, two Englishmen did it. Both born in the UK, educated in the UK and one from a strict Christian family.

 

Does this concern a passport or a religion?

[Barry Sanchez]

Just to add some context here, there have been around 20,000 fatalities from car accidents in the UK since the tube and bus attacks on 7 July 2005. In that same period there has been just 1 fatality from terrorism on UK soil. Anjem Choudary is a vicious, corrupted individual whose influence is deeply malign. He is also hopelessly unsuccessful.

 

The reason that number is so low has nothing to do with the neo-Nazis in the EDL and everything to do with some pretty effective intelligence-gathering and counter-terrorism work. One death in eight years, as awful and tragic as it certainly is, hardly foretells a 'dark future'. And actually, the manner of the attack on Lee Rigby shows just how far terrorists have sunk in their capabilities since 2001.

 

There is nothing any intelligence agency can do about this sort of attack, bar telling the Government to alter its foreign policy, would that even stop it?

[View From The Top]

I'm more tolerant of the EDL,than the like of Anjem Choudary.

 

I apologise if that is wrong in some people's eyes.

 

We are in a struggle to hold on to our national identity,and this is being wrestled from our grasp by Islamic fundementalists.

this is wrong.

eventually we will see that political correctness and trying to appease all,will have to cease......direct action will be nesessary...I hope not in my lifetime,or my sons.

multiculturalism really doesn't work....but we are being told it does and is something we should be proud of........that,my friends is rubbish.

 

its a dark future we are heading towards.

 

What utter, utter boll.oxs.

[saint lard]

I agree with Verbals statement...to a degree..

 

you see, I lived in Isleworth,London,for approx 20 years...I worked in a long standing hotel in that area also.

 

after a while it was plain to see I was living in a minority..so much so I moved back to the south coast.

now what made me feel that way.......

Hounslow was gradually a non safe haven for,how shall I put it,white non Muslim people......simple as.

that is wrong.

but I,like many could do nothing about it.

it took many a year but eventually the staff of the hotel realised it was not 'comfortable' to work there.

 

it is now a Restaurant/hotel serving the Asian community only.Asian weddings a such like....I wonder what it must be like to be a older resident of what was a 'multicultural' area.

i felt distinctly threatened playing pool on a Sunday afternoon,I dread to think what some of that lovely towns folk are feeling now.

 

Unless you have been marginalised in your own community,you probably don't quite get it.

[Barry Sanchez]

What utter, utter boll.oxs.

 

Whether real or not people think like that, you dont seem to grasp that? How is Oldham by the way? People are commenting from leafy Hampshire when the reality of multi culturism has never hit Southampton, the Poles compared to some have a similar if not exact way of life to us.

[View From The Top]

Whether real or not people think like that, you dont seem to grasp that? How is Oldham by the way? People are commenting from leafy Hampshire when the reality of multi culturism has never hit Southampton, the Poles compared to some have a similar if not exact way of life to us.

 

I understand the perception but the reality is different. I work in Smethwick at the moment, one of the most multicultural parts of the UK. I regularly find myself in mosques, Hindu temples & Sikh temples and 99.9% percent of people are simply decent folk doing their best for their families. Yes there are radical idiots, but they are equally split between the white & Asian communities.

 

There are no "no go areas" bar some white estates, no one enforces sharia and everyone attempts to rub along.

 

I'm no lover of mass immigration and sometimes I feel an alien in my own country but if anyone thinks we are being Islamified they are frankly, thick as fu.ck.

 

If anything the women of Islam, born in the UK, are being liberated.

Edited 27 May, 2013 by View From The Top

[Barry Sanchez]

I understand the perception but the reality is different. I work in Smethwick at the moment, one of the most multicultural parts of the UK. I regularly find myself in mosques, Hindu temples & Sikh temples and 99.9% percent of people are simply decent folk doing their best for their families. Yes there are radical idiots, but they are equally split between the white & Asian communities.

 

There are no "no go areas" bar some white estates, no one enforces sharia and everyone attempts to rub along.

 

I'm no lover of mass immigration and sometimes I feel an alien in my own country but if anyone thinks we are being Islamified they are frankly, thick as fu.ck.

 

If anything the women of Islam, born in the UK, are being liberated.

 

How are the women of Islam being liberated in this Country, what do you mean by that?

[pap]

Whether real or not people think like that, you dont seem to grasp that? How is Oldham by the way? People are commenting from leafy Hampshire when the reality of multi culturism has never hit Southampton, the Poles compared to some have a similar if not exact way of life to us.

 

You're having a laugh, Bazza. Southampton has been a multicultural city for ages, with some of the exact same characteristics, albeit on a smaller scale, as the places you describe. The area by St Mary's Road has been populated with people of Asian and Afro-Caribbean people for as long as I've been alive, and longer.

 

You characterisation of Southampton as "leafy Hampshire" reminds me of occasions when I've met northerners who assume that we all ride to school on ponies, after we've removed the silver spoon from the rectal area, naturally.

 

When were you last down? 1953?

[View From The Top]

How are the women of Islam being liberated in this Country, what do you mean by that?

 

Many women have access to education for the 1st time and they find it liberating. They also want better for their own daughters so many now refuse to allow their daughters to be taken "home" for arranged marriages to some "country peasant" they've never met.

 

They are still Muslim & proudly so, but they are British and now have very little in common their "home" country.

 

Having taught many 100s of them over the last 6 years in the Black Country it is the one message that I've encountered over and over again.

 

I shall miss them, especially the food the often supply, when I go back to Stoke in September.

[Barry Sanchez]

You're having a laugh, Bazza. Southampton has been a multicultural city for ages, with some of the exact same characteristics, albeit on a smaller scale, as the places you describe. The area by St Mary's Road has been populated with people of Asian and Afro-Caribbean people for as long as I've been alive, and longer.

 

You characterisation of Southampton as "leafy Hampshire" reminds me of occasions when I've met northerners who assume that we all ride to school on ponies, after we've removed the silver spoon from the rectal area, naturally.

 

When were you last down? 1953?

 

Multi Cultural to what? The skates down the road? The Isle of Wight? And I was not refering to Southampton I was refering to Hampshire ie leafy, but now you mention it..................

I was down there actually in leafy Hampshire "Curdridge" 3 weeks ago, anyway I thought you believed I still live down there, change your tune to attempt to prove a point?

[Barry Sanchez]

Many women have access to education for the 1st time and they find it liberating. They also want better for their own daughters so many now refuse to allow their daughters to be taken "home" for arranged marriages to some "country peasant" they've never met.

 

They are still Muslim & proudly so, but they are British and now have very little in common their "home" country.

 

Having taught many 100s of them over the last 6 years in the Black Country it is the one message that I've encountered over and over again.

 

I shall miss them, especially the food the often supply, when I go back to Stoke in September.

 

 

Are they British? Is that a flag of convenience for some, come on please dont be as naive to believe all who move here love the Queen and sing the National Anthem every night. As soon as someone defines themselves by their religion as opposed to birthplace/name/hometown I become concerned.

[pap]

Multi Cultural to what? The skates down the road? The Isle of Wight? And I was not refering to Southampton I was refering to Hampshire ie leafy, but now you mention it..................

I was down there actually in leafy Hampshire "Curdridge" 3 weeks ago, anyway I thought you believed I still live down there, change your tune to attempt to prove a point?

 

Ah quiet. You said multiculturalism had never hit Southampton, so it very much does look like you were referring to Southampton.

 

What have I missed here?

[Viking Warrior]

I don't have time for the EDL and equally I do not have anytime for these Islamic extremists who preach hatred . Pap and co may spout on about westerner s killing Muslims but I don't hear them going on about Muslims killing each other week in week out look at Sunni on Shia Muslims . Whether Iraq , afghan Syria Pakistan Indonesia North Africa etc etc . There is a very worrying trend happening around the world . Look at that group of terrorist who attacked that hotel in India a few years ago in the name of Islam . I do however worry about some of the extreme ideology that is being spouted in some countries mainly in the Middle East .

[View From The Top]

Are they British? Is that a flag of convenience for some, come on please dont be as naive to believe all who move here love the Queen and sing the National Anthem every night. As soon as someone defines themselves by their religion as opposed to birthplace/name/hometown I become concerned.

 

Yes, they're British, just Muslim. In the same way my some guys are British but Sikh or British & Catholic.

 

They were born here, this is their home. Most absolutely hate having to go "home" for duty visits etc.

 

It is very noticeable that their attitude towards the more "hardline" women is pure contempt. They also drip like a wet weekend about the Poles coming over & taking all the jobs!

[View From The Top]

I don't have time for the EDL and equally I do not have anytime for these Islamic extremists who preach hatred . Pap and co may spout on about westerner s killing Muslims but I don't hear them going on about Muslims killing each other week in week out look at Sunni on Shia Muslims . Whether Iraq , afghan Syria Pakistan Indonesia North Africa etc etc . There is a very worrying trend happening around the world . Look at that group of terrorist who attacked that hotel in India a few years ago in the name of Islam . I do however worry about some of the extreme ideology that is being spouted in some countries mainly in the Middle East .

 

All paid for by Saudi petrodollars.

[Barry Sanchez]

Ah quiet. You said multiculturalism had never hit Southampton, so it very much does look like you were referring to Southampton.

 

What have I missed here?

 

Southampton has never really been a truly multi cultural City, you in your sandals probably wish it so, even less in leafy Hampshire where many live and its even far less multi cultural there, I refered to do gooders who live in leafy suburbs or the Countryside and proclaim all is well in the land and yet have never seen Blackburn, Oldham and Rochdale.

 

The Southern liberal elite saying all is good all is well and yet dont have a true and real grasp on the situation, Jack Straw does and has been shouted down by the Southern living elite for years.

[Viking Warrior]

View . I don't subscribe to the Saudi concept . Sadden was a Sunni and despised Shias . I have my suspicions that Iran (Shia) is mainly behind many of the atrocities on innocent folk in Iraq now and not forgetting bin laden s hangers on

[View From The Top]

Southampton has never really been a truly multi cultural City, you in your sandals probably wish it so, even less in leafy Hampshire where many live and its even far less multi cultural there, I refered to do gooders who live in leafy suburbs or the Countryside and proclaim all is well in the land and yet have never seen Blackburn, Oldham and Rochdale.

 

The Southern liberal elite saying all is good all is well and yet dont have a true and real grasp on the situation, Jack Straw does and has been shouted down by the Southern living elite for years.

 

I'd agree with that.

 

I'd also add that the white underclass in the Midland & Northern cities certainly don't help the situation.

[Barry Sanchez]

Yes, they're British, just Muslim. In the same way my some guys are British but Sikh or British & Catholic.

 

They were born here, this is their home. Most absolutely hate having to go "home" for duty visits etc.

 

It is very noticeable that their attitude towards the more "hardline" women is pure contempt. They also drip like a wet weekend about the Poles coming over & taking all the jobs!

 

I have never defined myself as a Christian/Protestant, why would or should I? Its simply a way of some not intergrating by saying something the majority are not.