pap Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 You really are a weirdo. Exactly how many hours a day do you spend tapping away at your laptop? You are very observant. Yes I am. Where do you go next?
andysstuff Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Honestly don't know. Like yourself, I'm no expert on blood spatter or decapitation. I'm just pulling at a few loose threads. I'm also guessing he was dead or almost dead before they hacked the poor blokes head off. If so he would just bleed out rather than spatter - which needs the heart to be pumping reasonably strongly. Pretty consistent with the pavement pool of blood.
pap Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Pap you are a f*cking nutjob. For what? Saying that there isn't much blood for an attack billed as bloody? That the sub-headline on that Sun article, "Brave mum confronts bloodied killer", doesn't actually show a bloodied killer? These are statements of fact.
buctootim Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 For what? Saying that there isn't much blood for an attack billed as bloody? That the sub-headline on that Sun article, "Brave mum confronts bloodied killer", doesn't actually show a bloodied killer? These are statements of fact. Or maybe the brave woman who was there and talked them down saw more than you and has a knowledge of actual facts - not 'I know best because I cant see blood on the grainy pictures'. Just a thought.
JRM Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 disgusting trolling from pap posting with smiley faces thinking he's clued up enemy of the media catching them out with his lack of blood investigation. it's clear what happened here , stop the wind up. bet you don't want to address the real issues at hand .
buctootim Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Come on mate you're better than this. I used to think that. I don't anymore.
Gemmel Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Pap - Can't quite find the words for you, from what you have posted. I hope, just hope that you are trolling.
pap Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Come on mate you're better than this. The footage and photos are poor resolution plus the clothes are dark, it's hardly surprising you can't see loads of blood. In any case: there is a body, bloody smears on the pavement, bloody hands of one of the attackers who was holding a cleaver and loads of witnesses who saw them attacking the victim. One of the assailants is wearing a beige coat. The other, he with the bloody hands and political message, was spotless apart from his hands. Nothing on his jacket, and there is a whole video of him spouting off. This is one of those eyewitness accounts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0SybVHGZqU The eyewitness describes the assailants hacking at the victim as if he were a piece of meat. Later, he says that it was like a horror movie. I find that account incongruent with the state of the assailants post-attack. Take a look at the bloke in the beige jacket. Does he look like he has recently committed the acts attributed to him? Well worth a listen.
pap Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Pap - Can't quite find the words for you, from what you have posted. I hope, just hope that you are trolling. Perhaps you'd like to start by addressing what I've posted which is so offensive.
View From The Top Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Perhaps you'd like to start by addressing what I've posted which is so offensive. Some poor lad has been hacked to death on the streets of our capital, witnessed by dozens of bystanders, the body dumped in the road with a trail of blood from where he was murdered and you are trolling. Fu.cking unbelievable.
pap Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 disgusting trolling from pap posting with smiley faces thinking he's clued up enemy of the media catching them out with his lack of blood investigation. it's clear what happened here , stop the wind up. bet you don't want to address the real issues at hand . You are free to characterise my posts in any way you want, just as I'm free to disagree with yours. I didn't put the smiley face there for the reasons you state. It's just that once someone has come in and called you weird, and you admit that you are, where exactly does that person go afterward? The only comments I've made on here relate to the lack of blood in a bloody attack. That is it.
de-fence Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Because it's beneficial to our economy to have fresh supplies of labour and skills from elsewhere in the world? And because when people are unfortunate enough to be born into countries with terrible poverty or wars the nice thing to do is let some of then get away from it and start a life here? Ultimately, why should people have to accept the hand they're dealt? The capitalist system is such that some countries with resources or which managed to get ahead hundreds of years ago have built up massive financial strength and it's very hard for other countries to catch up. Sure, we can say tough luck to poorer countries, but it's nicer to try and let some people come and share our wealth. People who write off multi culruralism are taking too short term a view. Yes there will be teething problems is the short term, but if we keep embracing different cultures, then over the next hundreds years or so these issues will cease to be relevant The first point you have raised here is a reasonable enough reason. If we can bring over trained personnel to fill gaps that exist in our job market then that is of benefit to our economy. That of course raises the issue of the brain-drain in poorer countries which actually, contrary to your explanation, exacerbates the difference between the rich and the poor countries. This being that skilled professionals such as doctors move abroad leaving an immense shortfall in skilled workers in the countries they came from. If foreigners can come to the UK, be educated in a more stable environment, and then take these skills back to their own countries then the point you made stands, but more often than not this is not the case. So the argument for global integration falls down there. As for the second point, I just completely disagree. It would be nice? What do you mean it would be nice? Why are only some people entitled to this nice treatment? What about the country they are leaving behind in ruin? Why haven't the rest of the country's impoverished population been allowed to benefit from this niceness? It's wishy washy nonsense and is a paradigm that has developed in the last couple of decades that it is the norm for us to look after members of poor foreign countries by allowing them onto our soil and benefit from our institutions. I put the question back on you, why shouldn't people have to be accept the hand they are dealt? And why do some people have to accept it and others get to reshuffle the pack. I know I am extremely fortunate to be born British (winning the lottery of life and all that). But that is the country I was raised in. Good for me. What is this need for multi-culturalism? When did it become the case that having a world made up of various national identities was seen as a bad thing?
Gemmel Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Perhaps you'd like to start by addressing what I've posted which is so offensive. Actually pap why don't you just **** off. That is the only response you deserve.
Viking Warrior Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Pap I find your suggestions very offensive. within hours of this murder you have tried to spin the story for your own reasons. I am proud to have served the British Army for many years in the RAMC . I am very saddened that a serving soldier has been slain on the streets of UK. But either your trying to be provocative or have no sense of common decency. A soldier died yesterday and you put that **** about. You appear to have no respect for the relatives let alone for the dead soldier. No doubt you are scanning every photo looking for secret service agents with black rucksacks. You are really one sad F*****
Viking Warrior Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Pap you might focus on the lack of blood, but I dont see you aying anything about the dead soldier, I stand by my earlier comments
jjsaint Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 God this **** ****es me off. ****ing psycho animals. That's the last straw. I'm completely and irrevocably right-wing now.
de-fence Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 The first point you have raised here is a reasonable enough reason. If we can bring over trained personnel to fill gaps that exist in our job market then that is of benefit to our economy. That of course raises the issue of the brain-drain in poorer countries which actually, contrary to your explanation, exacerbates the difference between the rich and the poor countries. This being that skilled professionals such as doctors move abroad leaving an immense shortfall in skilled workers in the countries they came from. If foreigners can come to the UK, be educated in a more stable environment, and then take these skills back to their own countries then the point you made stands, but more often than not this is not the case. So the argument for global integration falls down there. As for the second point, I just completely disagree. It would be nice? What do you mean it would be nice? Why are only some people entitled to this nice treatment? What about the country they are leaving behind in ruin? Why haven't the rest of the country's impoverished population been allowed to benefit from this niceness? It's wishy washy nonsense and is a paradigm that has developed in the last couple of decades that it is the norm for us to look after members of poor foreign countries by allowing them onto our soil and benefit from our institutions. I put the question back on you, why shouldn't people have to be accept the hand they are dealt? And why do some people have to accept it and others get to reshuffle the pack. I know I am extremely fortunate to be born British (winning the lottery of life and all that). But that is the country I was raised in. Good for me. What is this need for multi-culturalism? When did it become the case that having a world made up of various national identities was seen as a bad thing? But the further away this goes from the context it was brought up in, the more it makes me look like its a point I raised as a result of the attack yesterday. Of course that is not the case. Couple of psychotic freaks clearly and very little, if any, relevance to immigration.
Viking Warrior Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Pap , if you want to see blood look at around the 50 second point plus of this footage http://www.aljazeera.com/#
pap Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Pap I find your suggestions very offensive. within hours of this murder you have tried to spin the story for your own reasons. I am proud to have served the British Army for many years in the RAMC . I am very saddened that a serving soldier has been slain on the streets of UK. But either your trying to be provocative or have no sense of common decency. A soldier died yesterday and you put that **** about. You appear to have no respect for the relatives let alone for the dead soldier. No doubt you are scanning every photo looking for secret service agents with black rucksacks. You are really one sad F***** You find the suggestion that there isn't much blood on people that have just hacked a man to death offensive? Especially when eye-witness accounts speak of a frenzied attack, trying to remove organs, and it being like something out of a horror movie? That right there is the entirety of my so called "conspiracy theory". The rest is all on you.
Viking Warrior Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Pap its not that one sentence "You find the suggestion that there isn't much blood on people that have just hacked a man to death offensive" I find Offensive. Its the whole ethos of your posts , and even responding to my posts , you still show no common decency or respect to the slain soldier
Sour Mash Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 disgusting trolling from pap posting with smiley faces thinking he's clued up enemy of the media catching them out with his lack of blood investigation. it's clear what happened here , stop the wind up. bet you don't want to address the real issues at hand . Exactly that. Beyond a weird wind-up, pretty distatsteful really.
pap Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Pap its not that one sentence "You find the suggestion that there isn't much blood on people that have just hacked a man to death offensive" I find Offensive. Its the whole ethos of your posts , and even responding to my posts , you still show no common decency or respect to the slain soldier People are murdered every day in this country and it is a tragic occurrence every time it happens. Is it your view that because this man was a soldier, he deserves more respect?
Colinjb Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 (edited) People are murdered every day in this country and it is a tragic occurrence every time it happens. Is it your view that because this man was a soldier, he deserves more respect? Actually, I do offer more respect for people who have chosen a career that fundamentally defends our sovereignty, freedom and way of life. Edited 23 May, 2013 by Colinjb
holepuncture Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 You find the suggestion that there isn't much blood on people that have just hacked a man to death offensive? Especially when eye-witness accounts speak of a frenzied attack, trying to remove organs, and it being like something out of a horror movie? That right there is the entirety of my so called "conspiracy theory". The rest is all on you. FWIW the nutter who preached to the camera after hacking at the innocent man in the street like some sort of wild ape, seems to have quite a bit of blood on the (underside) cuff of his jacket on his left hand, have a look for yourself, look for the damp/dark bit. Not that I should be even entertaining your sick delusions. It concerns me as you have mentioned before about Pakistani origin IIRC. I think you should be ashamed for trying to defend your conspiracy post, well out of order PAP. Its frosty in the capital today and I certainly would not want to be a muslim in public today. This is going to shake us to the core of the foundations of society, we have to get control.
Manuel Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 People are murdered every day in this country and it is a tragic occurrence every time it happens. Is it your view that because this man was a soldier, he deserves more respect? I suspect it's the fear it's that it could be the start of something. Although you could argue that gang culture and random murders associated with it, started and have been continuing on our streets for many years without much media attention. We accept those risks when we walk down our streets. I think it is premature to start picking up the pitchforks and flaming torches, just because there was a soldier involved, or because the motive may have been political/religious/anti-UK. Or because there may be Muslims involved. Or because the murderers were black (yes unbelievably this is becoming a race issue in certain circles). My view? A one of attack by a couple of crazed nutters, possibly associated to a small group, who will soon be rounded up and you'll never hear of anything like this again for 10 years.
Micky Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Perhaps you'd like to start by addressing what I've posted which is so offensive. What is your point, state your point, you utter utter cretin. I read very few people on this forum, until a few months ago, you were one of the ones I did take time to read. I don't know what has happened in your life recently, but judging by what you currently post - you need help. I understand that you might like to be seen as one of the primary contributors to this forum, and taking the extreme view is likely to get you the attention you crave. Meantime, the likes of TS probably laps up your every word. But, believe me Pap - now ain't the place nor the time.
Batman Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Pretty bloody odd what pap is saying here Boston bomb was a set up. Now this crap Yet jimmy D was going to warn others on this thread. Pap come across as someone of Muslim origin looming for a way out for any extreme mentalists and blame the big bad government
pap Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 What is your point, state your point, you utter utter cretin. I read very few people on this forum, until a few months ago, you were one of the ones I did take time to read. I don't know what has happened in your life recently, but judging by what you currently post - you need help. I understand that you might like to be seen as one of the primary contributors to this forum, and taking the extreme view is likely to get you the attention you crave. Meantime, the likes of TS probably laps up your every word. But, believe me Pap - now ain't the place nor the time. Micky, thanks for the introduction and the acknowledgement that you read the stuff I put on here, but apart from your last point - which I'm not really in a position to argue, the rest of your post is speculative junk. So what's going on in my life that has adversely affected me so much that I am driven to point out glaring inconsistencies with what people said and what is apparent from the photos? I don't know how you're going to reconcile this with your theory that I've disappeared into some deep dark hole, but life is pretty good right now. I've been banking cash for over a year, the missus has recently got a new job, the girls are doing well at school/college. I can well appreciate the whole angry loner tag you're trying to attribute me with, but it's not an accurate description, as anyone on here who knows me in real life will attest. I honestly don't give a crap whether you believe that or not.
SuperMikey Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Pretty bloody odd what pap is saying here Boston bomb was a set up. Now this crap Yet jimmy D was going to warn others on this thread. Pap come across as someone of Muslim origin looming for a way out for any extreme mentalists and blame the big bad government
Colinjb Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Micky, thanks for the introduction and the acknowledgement that you read the stuff I put on here, but apart from your last point - which I'm not really in a position to argue, the rest of your post is speculative junk. So what's going on in my life that has adversely affected me so much that I am driven to point out glaring inconsistencies with what people said and what is apparent from the photos? I don't know how you're going to reconcile this with your theory that I've disappeared into some deep dark hole, but life is pretty good right now. I've been banking cash for over a year, the missus has recently got a new job, the girls are doing well at school/college. I can well appreciate the whole angry loner tag you're trying to attribute me with, but it's not an accurate description, as anyone on here who knows me in real life will attest. I honestly don't give a crap whether you believe that or not. You are spinning out a conspiracy theory based entirely on whether someone is covered in blood or not? It's tenuous. Based on your self admission of enjoy conspiracy theories over first hand testimonial and evidence, coupled with the horrific nature of this crime, surely you can understand why people are beginning to lose patience with you?
Micky Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Micky, thanks for the introduction and the acknowledgement that you read the stuff I put on here, but apart from your last point - which I'm not really in a position to argue, the rest of your post is speculative junk. So what's going on in my life that has adversely affected me so much that I am driven to point out glaring inconsistencies with what people said and what is apparent from the photos? I don't know how you're going to reconcile this with your theory that I've disappeared into some deep dark hole, but life is pretty good right now. I've been banking cash for over a year, the missus has recently got a new job, the girls are doing well at school/college. I can well appreciate the whole angry loner tag you're trying to attribute me with, but it's not an accurate description, as anyone on here who knows me in real life will attest. I honestly don't give a crap whether you believe that or not. Glad to hear that you, your wife and family are well and prospering, glad to hear that my theory of your state of mind deteriorating over the last couple of months is miles off the mark. It appears I all of my theories on you were completely incorrect. Glad that you are well. A British soldier was hacked to death in Central London - right now, his family and friends don't need conspiracy theories into how it could have been staged. Hopefully you are better than that.
Seaford Saint Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Shocked at some of the exchanges I have read on here today.... Pap, now is not the time....not sure there can ever be a time to be honest.
Lighthouse Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 You're naive and the reason why this country has gone to ****...........there's too many people like you with that liberal attitude. Tbh I agree with your sentiment but that will only work if people come this country with the same outlook but that's not what's happening is it? Why should I have to put up with being threatend in my own country by people who are just abusing the legal (system)?.............I wouldn't go to a foreign country and abuse the laws of that land or intentionaly try and act in a provocative manor. This does not seem to imply with some muslims who live in this country. I am the reason the country has gone to sh*t? Wow that's quite a statement. I've got a job, pay my taxes and obey the law but I suppose if I tolerate other cultures I must be ruining it for everyone. As for your second line, YES it's exactly what's happening. Thousands of people come here, get a job and get along fine with the rest of the country. There are over a million Muslims in this country, how many of them do you see murdering British soldiers? None, apart from this one isolated incident. It needs to be dealt with, the people responsible and those preaching hate crime need to be brought to justice. We are however talking about a tiny, tiny minority of the Muslim population of Britain. I went skiing with 2 Muslims last year. They both got absolutely smashed in an après ski bar and one of them cheated on him wife. You can't get more British than that. You are not being threatened in your own country any more that you are threatened by white people who live here. If your scared to live in your own country because of these 2 nutters, how do you feel about Mick Philpott, Ian Huntley, Fred West, The Kray Twins, Raul Moat, Derrick Bird, The Dunblame massacre, the Hungerford massacre? Do these not count because they were committed by white people?
Daren W Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 People are murdered every day in this country and it is a tragic occurrence every time it happens. Is it your view that because this man was a soldier, he deserves more respect? I wasn't particularly offended by your comments until you chirped up with this one... The man's job was to uphold yours and other people's freedoms. That deserves respect. If you can't offer that then pop over to the middle east and put your points across there. See how far you get...
pap Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Glad to hear that you, your wife and family are well and prospering, glad to hear that my theory of your state of mind deteriorating over the last couple of months is miles off the mark. It appears I all of my theories on you were completely incorrect. Glad that you are well. A British soldier was hacked to death in Central London - right now, his family and friends don't need conspiracy theories into how it could have been staged. Hopefully you are better than that. I think I have been. Read over this thread. I've basically repeated myself the whole way down. I'll do you the honour of not repeating it again. If you stick to what I've said, and not what others have made up for me, then it's a very reasonable question. Why does the physical evidence on the victims contradict the eye-witness accounts?
Verbal Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 People are murdered every day in this country and it is a tragic occurrence every time it happens. Is it your view that because this man was a soldier, he deserves more respect? I think VW's point, which you've missed by a country mile and seem incapable of understanding, is that the dead soldier and his family do not deserve your disrespect. As with your posts on the Boston bombings, you display to the outside world (or to the rest of us on here at least) a pretty sorry combination of paranoia and narcissism. Paranoia because every public tragedy has to have an alternative explanation to the one that's blindingly obvious, and always the alternative is that some mysterious supra-government superforce is at work. And narcissism because - if you actually look at your posts - you're constantly self-referring, idly wondering about blood splatters, or the supposed lack of them, and how this might fit into the narrative that only you - such a brave, lonely soul - can see. Just as a word of general warning: narcissistic behaviour can tip easily in sociopathic behaviour and worse. Consider, as evidence, the fact that you share a number of things in common with Tamerlan Tsarnaev. You both believe 9/11 was a false-flag operation, you both regurgitate extreme right-wing paranoid guff from Infowars, and you both have an astonishingly high opinion of yourselves that transcends others' suffering to the point of denying such suffering could even exist. I'm not suggesting you're even close to Tsarnaev as a murdering cretin (and of course you would deny that he was even that), but the character traits should give even you (hopefully) pause for thought. As for the appeal of conspiracy theories in general, I despair - I really do. They all work the same way. So without a detailed knowledge of mathematics, most people take it that Kepler's Laws do a pretty good job of explaining the motions of the planets. 'Theorists' (such a self-aggrandising and inappropriate term) would deny the validity of the mathematics BECAUSE they don't understand them, and insist that the planets are actually being controlled in their orbits by pilots buried beneath the surface. The good news is that most people don't give conspiracy theorists the time of day - and so I'm not going to say any more on this thread about your favourite subject: you. I just hope that your juvenile, solipsistic musings go no further than this board, and certainly nothing like your views reach the family of the dead solider.
OldNick Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 People are murdered every day in this country and it is a tragic occurrence every time it happens. Is it your view that because this man was a soldier, he deserves more respect?Pap some of your observations the past have been interesting re Boston and actors etc, but please do not devalue yourself and try and argue that all the bystanders etc are stooges to this horrific event. This has happened on our nations soil and it is almost certain to whip up extra attacks on other innocent people.
pap Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 I wasn't particularly offended by your comments until you chirped up with this one... The man's job was to uphold yours and other people's freedoms. That deserves respect. If you can't offer that then pop over to the middle east and put your points across there. See how far you get... If you'd said "pop over to Normandy in 1944" to defend our freedoms, you'd have a hell of a point. Is our involvement in the Middle East about defending our freedoms, or legitimising US neo-imperialism? Remember that the soldiers in Iraq went there on a lie, and that war was directly responsible for the loss of a million Iraqi lives. My personal view is that Afghanistan was a sledge-hammer to crack a walnut. The US should have done what they eventually did, conduct a surgical operation to get the guy, with very little collateral damage. That would have been the moral thing to do for the leaders of the free world. Members of the Forces don't get to make these decisions. The old saying "once you take the Queen's shilling" is true. So my stance, to give you another opportunity to perhaps get offended, is this. I have tremendous professional respect for the work that members of our armed forces do, in the same way that I have tremendous respect for any accomplished professional - but I don't consider a member of the armed forces to be intrinsically better than anyone else. Lest you forces types take umbrage, that goes for everyone. As I said before, it's tragic whenever it happens. I don't think it becomes more or less tragic based on what someone elected to do as a career.
norwaysaint Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 I've been avoiding this thread, because I didn't like the way it quickly descended into the usual snidey name calling quite early on. I thought it was pretty distasteful. I've just glanced throught the last page and it seems everybody is up in arms at pap. All I can see on this page is that he's said he doesn't understand how such a gory attack was carried out without spilling any blood on the road, which, although an unusual thing to be thinking about, isn't actually offensive.Can anybody tell me what I missed and what the offensive bit or conspiracy theory thing is that's made everyone so angry? I'm not supporting anyone or offering any argument, just can't be doing with reading what descended into quite a nasty thread quite quickly.
Gingeletiss Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 What a **** you are PAP, trolling of the worst order, where is Jimmy the infractor when you want him. I'd love you to voice those comments in the company of some of my mates right now! Like Viking, I am ex Army, and spitting feathers that something like this can be allowed to happen on our streets.
View From The Top Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 I've been avoiding this thread, because I didn't like the way it quickly descended into the usual snidey name calling quite early on. I thought it was pretty distasteful. I've just glanced throught the last page and it seems everybody is up in arms at pap. All I can see on this page is that he's said he doesn't understand how such a gory attack was carried out without spilling any blood on the road, which, although an unusual thing to be thinking about, isn't actually offensive.Can anybody tell me what I missed and what the offensive bit or conspiracy theory thing is that's made everyone so angry? I'm not supporting anyone or offering any argument, just can't be doing with reading what descended into quite a nasty thread quite quickly. The aerial shots show a huge blood trail from where the butchered the poor lad to where they dumped his body. Pap seems to think it questionable that the two killers aren't covered in blood as if were some episode of CSI.
Jimmy_D Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Like was said before, this is a football forum. I don't want to have to deal with this thread any more.
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