harvey Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Exactly, throw into the mix the probability that they were very high on drugs (not a very muslim thing), possibily scizophrenic. What about the Bulgarian bloke who beheaded the English granny in broad daylight in Tenerife a few years back? A scizophrenic, religious extremist. A 'probability' and and 'possibly' in your comment there............hedgeing your bets 'maybe'?
de-fence Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Where in Sweden? there has been rioting by immigrants in stockholm for 3 days so far http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WOTFtFDxvc Live in Gothenburg. Don't speak the language though so apologies if I missed something in the news out here. I'm not well informed at all by what has happened but nothing really happened in that video did it?
The Kraken Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Jihadi extremists are to Islam what the Ku Klux Klan is to Chrisianity. Someone's been watching The West Wing....
Dr Who? Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Pretty obvious this was staged by the government, and all the participants are actors. Pap is busy at the moment so thought I'd start the ball (t)rolling. Great timing with the government under great pressure. Also sounds like the sort of thing that happens every weekend in London. Seems blow out of proportion with very little clarification, and a huge media spin before anyone has the evidence. Way to start a witch hunt!
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Disgusting incident, really shocking. Sad to see idiots on here using it to justify their own bigotry.
Sour Mash Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Great timing with the government under great pressure. Also sounds like the sort of thing that happens every weekend in London. Seems blow out of proportion with very little clarification, and a huge media spin before anyone has the evidence. Way to start a witch hunt! There aren't enough of these in the world
Elias Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 They have certainly been discriminatory towards certain beliefs though. Read another topic if a strong debate in the heat of a sickening moment isn't to your liking. Don't start trying to throw your weight around unreasonably. Not one person here has suggested all Muslims are terrorists. This would be absurd as most of them are decent law abiding normal people who happen to have been brought up in a different culture and would never dream of serioisly breaking the law. However it's worth pointing out that most terrorists are Muslim and have direct familial connections to/were born in countries significantly less advanced materially and philosophically than our own. This should be an accepted fact, no?
Blood and skin Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 The actions of these"people?" Is totally vile. Unconscionable to any sane thinking person, but unfortunately we are living in a very violent world and Britain is playing its part..invading and occupying two countries, directly and indirectly involved with the overthrow or attempted overthrow of a number of others, this only fuels these hatreds.
View From The Top Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 great timing with the government under great pressure. Also sounds like the sort of thing that happens every weekend in london. Seems blow out of proportion with very little clarification, and a huge media spin before anyone has the evidence. Way to start a witch hunt! wtf!
Verbal Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Just to pick up on Jimmy D's point, and at the risk of sounding like a stuck record, I do recommend reading Lawrence Wright's 'The Looming Tower' to understand the mechanism at work in attacks like today's. Bin Laden and his sidekick Zawahiri have always been explicit about the motives for this kind of appalling crime. It is to corner Muslims themselves - to make them feel under siege. The staple Al Qaeda logic is that if moderate Muslims in general are subjected to abuse and threats, it will radicalise them and drive them to Salafist Islamism. So the worst thing anyone can do is to generalise today's attack into abuse aimed at a religion or people in general. To do so, is, in effect, to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with that murderous idiot in the video and say, 'I'll give you a helping hand.' As things stand, a large number of Muslim organisations in Britain have lined up to utterly condemn the attack. THat should be welcomed and encouraged. More often than they care to admit, Salafists get their own calculations horribly wrong. The attack in 1997 at the Temple of Hatshepsut in Luxor, in which 58 Western tourists were hacked and machined gunned to death, caused such public outrage in Egypt that Zawahiri, who organised it, initially denied responsibility. There were no terrorist outrages in Egypt for many years afterwards. Having said all that, I personally would like to see concerted action at a number of levels to make it easier and less intimidating for people to abandon their faith. The idea that it is a crime on a par with murder (and therefore a capital crime) to renounce one's adherence to Islam has taken hold in far too much of the Muslim world. But I know of one or two acquaintances who've become profoundly disillusioned with the faith they were born into - they just dare not say so publicly or admit it to their families.
um pahars Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Someone's been watching The West Wing.... Never seen it!! Was going to put Westboro Baptist Church in there at first, but although they are a vile depiction of Christianity, they aren't really guilty of murders and assassinations etc! Looking at some on this thread, then I'm afraid I have to say that these 2?? Murdering scum seem to have got the reaction they were hoping for.
Turkish Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Just to pick up on Jimmy D's point, and at the risk of sounding like a stuck record, I do recommend reading Lawrence Wright's 'The Looming Tower' to understand the mechanism at work in attacks like today's. Bin Laden and his sidekick Zawahiri have always been explicit about the motives for this kind of appalling crime. It is to corner Muslims themselves - to make them feel under siege. The staple Al Qaeda logic is that if moderate Muslims in general are subjected to abuse and threats, it will radicalise them and drive them to Salafist Islamism. So the worst thing anyone can do is to generalise today's attack into abuse aimed at a religion or people in general. To do so, is, in effect, to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with that murderous idiot in the video and say, 'I'll give you a helping hand.' As things stand, a large number of Muslim organisations in Britain have lined up to utterly condemn the attack. THat should be welcomed and encouraged. More often than they care to admit, Salafists get their own calculations horribly wrong. The attack in 1997 at the Temple of Hatshepsut in Luxor, in which 58 Western tourists were hacked and machined gunned to death, caused such public outrage in Egypt that Zawahiri, who organised it, initially denied responsibility. There were no terrorist outrages in Egypt for many years afterwards. Having said all that, I personally would like to see concerted action at a number of levels to make it easier and less intimidating for people to abandon their faith. The idea that it is a crime on a par with murder (and therefore a capital crime) to renounce one's adherence to Islam has taken hold in far too much of the Muslim world. But I know of one or two acquaintances who've become profoundly disillusioned with the faith they were born into - they just dare not say so publicly or admit it to their families. No one is.
Jonnyboy Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Pretty obvious this was staged by the government, and all the participants are actors. Pap is busy at the moment so thought I'd start the ball (t)rolling. Good day to bury bad news, A brief news report mentions another "boston bomber" suspect was "killed" by police today.
Dr Who? Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 (edited) wtf! All I am saying is that people are attacked, kidnapped, and killed in the uk everyday. Ok this was in broad daylight, but quite obviously the people that did this were nut jobs. All I am saying is that there are many people that are nut jobs all over the uk and every race! The news when I got in, we're giving the spin that a person in the army was killed by being beheaded, but a Islamic terrorist. Not one of these has been confirmed, apart from the man was killed. Edited 22 May, 2013 by Dr Who?
harvey Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 All I am saying is that people are attacked, kidnapped, and killed in the uk everyday. Ok this was in broad daylight, but quite obviously the people that did this were nut jobs. All I am saying is that there are many people that are nut jobs all over the uk and every race! The news when I got in, we're giving the spin that a person in the army was killed by being beheaded, but a Islamic terrorist. Not one of these has been confirmed, apart from the man was killed. Have you been drinking?
View From The Top Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 All I am saying is that people are attacked, kidnapped, and killed in the uk everyday. Ok this was in broad daylight, but quite obviously the people that did this were nut jobs. All I am saying is that there are many people that are nut jobs all over the uk and every race! The news when I got in, we're giving the spin that a person in the army was killed by being beheaded, but a Islamic terrorist. Not one of these has been confirmed, apart from the man was killed. WTF? Are you pi.ssed?
Sour Mash Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 WTF? Are you pi.ssed? One Cheesecake too many I reckon.
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Good post Verbal, it'll be wasted on many here.
Dr Who? Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 WTF? Are you pi.ssed? Nah, just on my iPad, think the screen needs a clean.
harvey Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Nah, just on my iPad, think the screen needs a clean. More like your brain by the sounds of it
Dr Who? Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Just to pick up on Jimmy D's point, and at the risk of sounding like a stuck record, I do recommend reading Lawrence Wright's 'The Looming Tower' to understand the mechanism at work in attacks like today's. Bin Laden and his sidekick Zawahiri have always been explicit about the motives for this kind of appalling crime. It is to corner Muslims themselves - to make them feel under siege. The staple Al Qaeda logic is that if moderate Muslims in general are subjected to abuse and threats, it will radicalise them and drive them to Salafist Islamism. So the worst thing anyone can do is to generalise today's attack into abuse aimed at a religion or people in general. To do so, is, in effect, to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with that murderous idiot in the video and say, 'I'll give you a helping hand.' As things stand, a large number of Muslim organisations in Britain have lined up to utterly condemn the attack. THat should be welcomed and encouraged. More often than they care to admit, Salafists get their own calculations horribly wrong. The attack in 1997 at the Temple of Hatshepsut in Luxor, in which 58 Western tourists were hacked and machined gunned to death, caused such public outrage in Egypt that Zawahiri, who organised it, initially denied responsibility. There were no terrorist outrages in Egypt for many years afterwards. Having said all that, I personally would like to see concerted action at a number of levels to make it easier and less intimidating for people to abandon their faith. The idea that it is a crime on a par with murder (and therefore a capital crime) to renounce one's adherence to Islam has taken hold in far too much of the Muslim world. But I know of one or two acquaintances who've become profoundly disillusioned with the faith they were born into - they just dare not say so publicly or admit it to their families. Fantastic post!
Dr Who? Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 More like your brain by the sounds of it No different to some of the other mindless racist posts on here!
Dr Who? Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 One Cheesecake too many I reckon. Made far to many, just finished making another 3 business is good.
Jonnyboy Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 This is why UKiP are sweeping in with popularity and having an influence on British politics This is disgusting. These people are probably happy to claim benefits, have a council flat, use the NHS and have free schooling. Make no mistake, if he is British by birth he is certainly not British by design Yet. The liberals will tell you to live and let live. Unless they are from Eaton or vote Tory. About time we stopped being so tolerant of Radical Islamists. Just look at the hilarity of that qatada fella Are you still pretending you arent delldays James?
harvey Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 No different to some of the other mindless racist posts on here! I haven't seen any racist posts?....but people interpret opinions different ways I suppose.
Dr Who? Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 I haven't seen any racist posts?....but people interpret opinions different ways I suppose. Maybe, all I am saying is that every race has nut cases, all over the uk.
View From The Top Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Good post Verbal, it'll be wasted on many here. I don't think a single person blames a "religion or people in general". That doesn't alter the fact this crime was done in the name of Islam and that simmering, just below the surface, is a growing resentment, bordering on hatred towards large swathes of the Islamic community.
Dr Who? Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Only on Saints Web eh! Don't know, have you seen facebook, now there is plenty of racism on there. Once everything is confirmed, I will then make up my own mind on the terrible events of today. This will not be made up from knee jerk reactions from the media, and our PM.
St Marco Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 These are the ones I'm particularly worried about. Bringing race, religion, or idealogy into these discussions is always dangerous ground. I don't think I need to defend myself for what I have said at all. I have not said anything racist nor xenophobic. I never implied a whole race of people should be tarnished or blamed for the acts of the few. You will find most muslims/Christians/etc are decent people who wish no ill of anyone. They are decent people who offer something to the country. These people who do these acts of hate are not people who should be defended. I am sick to death of liberals trying to defend these kind of people who wish nothing but harm upon the people of this country. Like I said in my post these people are brainwashed into believing what they believe. They didn't just wake up one day and think "right time to kill someone". They were lead down that path by people who preach hate and encourage extremist views and behaviour. I for one will not defend those people. If there are people in this country who think it is right to kill innocent people and preach/encourage others to do it then they need to be dealt with. It does not matter if you are white/black/Asian/Christian/Muslim/Jewish. Teaching people to hate in that way is something that serves no purpose and has no place in this country. The people who teach these kids hate are protected by EU law so we can't do anything about it. Sticking your head in the sand and saying anyone who does not share your view is wrong and a racist is disgusting. That card is played too much when people know they can't win an argument. We live in a multi-cultural society, we all know people of different faiths. We can all differentiate between a radical group and a normal faith group. You don't see Christians be-heading people, Nor Jewish or Muslim. Only radical islamists who have been brainwashed. These people need to be routed out and dealt with. It is not racist to say there is a problem and it needs to be dealt with. Hiding behind the whole race card thing is done. People don't buy it anymore.
View From The Top Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Are you still pretending you arent delldays James? Jamie, not James and he does do an excellent impression of him doesn't he.
Dr Who? Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 I don't think a single person blames a "religion or people in general". That doesn't alter the fact this crime was done in the name of Islam and that simmering, just below the surface, is a growing resentment, bordering on hatred towards large swathes of the Islamic community. Allegedly
um pahars Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 I don't think a single person blames a "religion or people in general". That doesn't alter the fact this crime was done in the name of Islam and that simmering, just below the surface, is a growing resentment, bordering on hatred towards large swathes of the Islamic community. But doesn't that just show us that that resentment, hatred and fear is totally irrational and actually just playing in to the hands of the extremists on one side and those on the other who also benefit from the fires being stoked?
Dr Who? Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Sorry, a lot of this does not add up! Why did they not attack other members of the public? 1 + 1 is 3?
Gemmel Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 The MCB - PO Box 57330, London E1 2WJ - Email:admin@mcb.org.uk Tel:+44 (0) 845 26 26 786 Fax:+44 (0) 207 247 7079 HomeAbout UsAffiliatesCommitteesE- NewsletterMediaAudioLibraryEmail MCBDonationsJobsService ProvidersProjectsEventsFundingLinksFAQsOnline ShoppingDisclaimerA-Z index Wed 22 May 2013 13 Rajab 1434 AH ...NEWS RELEASE...NEWS RELEASE...NEWS RELEASE... 22 May 2013 Muslims Condemn Attack on Soldier in Woolwich No cause justifies this murder A barbaric act that has no basis in Islam and we condemn this unreservedly Vast majority of British Muslims acknowledge armed forces for the work they do Calls for calm and unity in all communities The Muslim Council of Britain this evening spoke out, in the strongest possible terms, the news of a horrific murder that has taken place in Woolwich, London. Eye-witnesses suggest that the murderers made Islamic slogans during their heinous action and were thus motivated by their Islamic faith. This is a truly barbaric act that has no basis in Islam and we condemn this unreservedly. Our thoughts are with the victim and his family. We understand the victim is a serving member of the Armed Forces. Muslims have long served in this country’s Armed Forces, proudly and with honour. This attack on a member of the Armed Forces is dishonourable, and no cause justifies this murder. This action will no doubt heighten tensions on the streets of the United Kingdom. We call on all our communities, Muslim and non-Muslim, to come together in solidarity to ensure the forces of hatred do not prevail. It is important we allow our police authorities to do their job without speculation. We also urge the utmost vigilance and ask the police authorities to calm tensions
Barry Sanchez Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 (edited) It wasn't that long that British born terrorists were indiscriminately blowing up innocent civilians & assassinating people whilst English men like Jan Taylor and Patrick Hayes were blowing up Harrods. And gang crime moves with the times from the English East End hard men, through the yardies, triads etc. Our biggest threat is currently from British born jihadis. Of course the "influence" and their "cause" emanates from issues abroad, but we haven't got Al Qaeda running amok in this country. The old you can be born in a stable but that does not make you a horse line is true here. Edited 22 May, 2013 by Barry Sanchez
View From The Top Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 But doesn't that just show us that that resentment, hatred and fear is totally irrational and actually just playing in to the hands of the extremists on one side and those on the other who also benefit from the fires being stoked? So many up here view Islam as the enemy. They are hated, and I don't use that term lightly. The white majority despise them. Even people I know, left wing, educated and what I'd consider liberal, hate them. It's not on an individual basis more a community thing. The Islamic communities taking over areas & schools and women behind the veil, which is becoming way, way more common up here entrenches the view that they are the enemy. It's definitely becoming more pronounced and more mainstream up here.
View From The Top Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Sorry, a lot of this does not add up! Why did they not attack other members of the public? 1 + 1 is 3? The lad was a solider in a H4H tee, therefore a "legitimate target".
Dr Who? Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Still not confirmed. As I said, I will make my decision on fact, not what the media are spinning.
The Kraken Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 So many up here view Islam as the enemy. They are hated, and I don't use that term lightly. The white majority despise them. Even people I know, left wing, educated and what I'd consider liberal, hate them. It's not on an individual basis more a community thing. The Islamic communities taking over areas & schools and women behind the veil, which is becoming way, way more common up here entrenches the view that they are the enemy. It's definitely becoming more pronounced and more mainstream up here. Yoda had a point when he said "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering".
Dr Who? Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Also 'terrorist attacks' have been down graded...... Already a possible terrorist incident.
Saint137 Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 To revisit one of my favourite quotes from last year "a half caste, ginger, and Muslim asylum seeker walk in to a bar. Everyone buys them a drink" Mo Farah is from Somalia, British, and proud. As I hope we are of him... What has happened today is a new low for British society. Although brings back memories of the equally brutal murders of two soldiers who accidentally gatecrashed an IRA funeral in Belfast c.1985. Dragged from car and beaten to death.
View From The Top Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Still not confirmed. As I said, I will make my decision on fact, not what the media are spinning. What isn't confirmed, that he was a serving solider & that he was wearing a H4H tee or that it wasn't an attack based on radical Islam despite all of that being confirmed by the people that watched it happen? You are making yourself look a right cu.nt.
Gemmel Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Still not confirmed. . See the press release from the Muslim Council above. You are coming across as very weird.
Gemmel Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Still not confirmed. . http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10074881/Mum-talked-down-Woolwich-terrorists-who-told-her-We-want-to-start-a-war-in-London-tonight.html
Barry Sanchez Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Still not confirmed. As I said, I will make my decision on fact, not what the media are spinning. Spinning what, fact?
Jonnyboy Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Watching the tv footage, I hope the initial blow from when they rammed him was the one that killed him (there's a lot of blood around the car) and the rest of the sick stuff was done after.
holepuncture Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4938197/shooting-in-woolwich-london.html JP ditch the hat ASAP, seems other media are ducking out of the madmans DC reference
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