shurlock Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Can't get more British and home grown than stone island clobber.
Sour Mash Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Ok then, how about Knuckle Draggers? Morons? Uneducated f*ckwits? Mouth breathing p!ss stains? Or how about just plain Racist Thugs? Maybe so, but at least they haven't hacked to death a young lad in the street for wearing a t-shirt they don't like. Oh and they're not luddites.
Spudders Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Can't get more British and home grown than stone island clobber. Yes you can. How about Mr Bean in stone island!!!
Smirking_Saint Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Yes you can. How about Mr Bean in stone island!!! Moaning in a queue eating a scone
B Rabbit Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Absolutely!............................I know this woman's a bit annoying but the clip tells a story http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KtJKNgO_ys I am lost for words... I cannot believe we allow things like this to happen and you get complete bells ranting on about you're average English person getting ****ed off a out these kind of people living in our country! Can you imagine a few hundred English people roaming through... Wherever... Any other country... Shouting... **** your nation....comparable to going round to someone's house for dinner and jumping up and down on their sofa with your shoes on.... And then have people defending your actions!
Spudders Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Moaning in a queue eating a scone I'd like this if the forum had the functionality! +1 reputations point instead
Jonnyboy Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Delicious irony. I dont think people on here even know what liberal elite actually means.
Turkish Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Did your missus go to bed early and accidentally leave the computer on or something? Do I seriously need to publicly condemn the attacks? F*ck me. Well you seemed to condemn everything else but it.
SuperMikey Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Maybe so, but at least they haven't hacked to death a young lad in the street for wearing a t-shirt they don't like. Oh and they're not luddites. Don't really think you can compare the two groups. The attackers today were obviously mentally ill, indoctrinated to the point of delusion and not in their right minds. The EDL are just out for a scrap and to try and intimidate people.
Turkish Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Can't get more British and home grown than stone island clobber. Except of course Stone island is Italian. Well done though.
SuperMikey Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Well you seemed to condemn everything else but it. Ah you've got me there, I obviously must support the attack then. Blast.
Lighthouse Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Can you imagine a few hundred English people roaming through... Wherever... Any other country... Shouting... **** your nation.... Wasn't that the 2006 World Cup?
Barry Sanchez Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Delicious irony. You either think im part of that group or I dont know who is, either way you're incorrect.
Barry Sanchez Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Wasn't that the 2006 World Cup? With a political and religeous agenda of what exactly?
Sour Mash Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 I am lost for words... I cannot believe we allow things like this to happen and you get complete bells ranting on about you're average English person getting ****ed off a out these kind of people living in our country! Can you imagine a few hundred English people roaming through... Wherever... Any other country... Shouting... **** your nation....comparable to going round to someone's house for dinner and jumping up and down on their sofa with your shoes on.... And then have people defending your actions! It's absolutely mad isn't it, sickening. You've got to feel sorry for many non-muslims from parts of Luton and similar areas.
Sour Mash Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Don't really think you can compare the two groups. Plenty of people already have on this thread. Neither group are good, but I definitely know which are worse.
shurlock Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Except of course Stone island is Italian. Well done though. You got that hat too?
Jonnyboy Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Except of course Stone island is Italian. Well done though. Yeah and aussies all drink fosters.
Turkish Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 You got that hat too? Don't be so f*cking stupid, that hat is horrendous.
Verbal Posted 22 May, 2013 Posted 22 May, 2013 Absolutely!............................I know this woman's a bit annoying but the clip tells a story http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KtJKNgO_ys Actually, it's quite a revealing clip. In the background of one particular shot is a white Muslim convert now serving a six-year sentence for plotting attacks against British soldiers at Wootton Bassett. Anjem Choudary is also interviewed; he radicalised the convert and, I suspect, will be the focus of attention with respect to the Nigerian-born dimwit videoed today with blood-covered hands, who was also radicalised during his time in Choudary's one of organisations. Choudary is likely to be accused of being the common link: he has frequently called for jihad against non-Muslims, and has saved his most provocative remarks for demos against British soldiers. He has also called for David Cameron and Barack Obama to be killed. I do wonder whether the security services are going to find themselves in a tricky position on this - especially if, as seems likely, the Nigerian was on their radar as yet another one of Choudary's dumbass 'Four Lions'-lite acolytes. We'll see, but it seems yet again it's the usual suspects. You can even tell the connection between them by that weirdly pompous, over-enunciated estuarine English they all seem to speak.
Monk Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 I've really had enough of this. Never been particularly educated to it all as a child. Always been one to let people have opinions and live their life's as they wish. The thing that does infuriate me and I cannot understand why Muslims are here? Call me ill educated or what you like but this country is predominately Church of England, when you go to another country, you live by that countries rules and ways, if you do not like it, **** off out of there. Enough of this multi cultural political correctness as this should apply by all over the world, if you look to move to another country, you respect their, laws, culture and way of life.
Sour Mash Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 I've really had enough of this. Never been particularly educated to it all as a child. Always been one to let people have opinions and live their life's as they wish. The thing that does infuriate me and I cannot understand why Muslims are here? Call me ill educated or what you like but this country is predominately Church of England, when you go to another country, you live by that countries rules and ways, if you do not like it, **** off out of there. Enough of this multi cultural political correctness as this should apply by all over the world, if you look to move to another country, you respect their, laws, culture and way of life. Afraid its a bit late for that now.
Lighthouse Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 (edited) I've really had enough of this. Never been particularly educated to it all as a child. Always been one to let people have opinions and live their life's as they wish. The thing that does infuriate me and I cannot understand why Muslims are here? Call me ill educated or what you like but this country is predominately Church of England, when you go to another country, you live by that countries rules and ways, if you do not like it, **** off out of there. Enough of this multi cultural political correctness as this should apply by all over the world, if you look to move to another country, you respect their, laws, culture and way of life. Oh dear. You are every Islamist's wet dream. A couple of lunatics with a machete and suddenly it's, 'why have we got Muslims in Britain' at all. I don't know the exact number of Muslims living in Britain but I think it's about 1 million. As far as I am aware 999,998 of those didn't murder a British soldier today so perhaps they should be tolerated. The VAST majority of Muslims in this country DO respect our laws, culture and our way of life. It's a tiny vocal minority which some people are fooled into thinking is the norm. Why are Muslims here? The same reason Poles, Indians, Caribbean's and Aussie barmen are here. To seek a job and a better way of life. Most of them do, they send their kids to school, pay their taxes and moan about the weather, just like everyone else. The trouble is people read Daily Mail horror stories and think that every immigrant is a suicide bombing rapist living off benefits. Edited 23 May, 2013 by Lighthouse
Monk Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Oh dear. You are every Islamist's wet dream. A couple of lunatics with a machete and suddenly it's, 'why have we got Muslims in Britain' at all. I don't know the exact number of Muslims living in Britain but I think it's about 1 million. As far as I am aware 999,998 of those didn't murder a British soldier today so perhaps they should be tolerated. The VAST majority of Muslims in this country DO respect our laws, culture and our way of life. It's a tiny vocal minority which some people are fooled into thinking is the norm. Yes it is oh dear but like I've said I live in England, this is my country, I shouldn't have to worry about my culture and I'm entitled to ignorance to foreign tendencies in this country.
SFKA South Woodford Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 It's absolutely mad isn't it, sickening. You've got to feel sorry for many non-muslims from parts of Luton and similar areas. and this is exactly the reaction that these pr*cks are looking for, they want us to hate anyone from their religon whether they are good or bad people, as soon as you start looking at all people from a group in the same way that's racism, which is exactly the devisive outcome that they are hoping to incite by their words and actions, they can then have their holy muslim vs christian war that they want so badly!
harvey Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Oh dear. You are every Islamist's wet dream. A couple of lunatics with a machete and suddenly it's, 'why have we got Muslims in Britain' at all. I don't know the exact number of Muslims living in Britain but I think it's about 1 million. As far as I am aware 999,998 of those didn't murder a British soldier today so perhaps they should be tolerated. The VAST majority of Muslims in this country DO respect our laws, culture and our way of life. It's a tiny vocal minority which some people are fooled into thinking is the norm. Why are Muslims here? The same reason Poles, Indians, Caribbean's and Aussie barmen are here. To seek a job and a better way of life. Most of them do, they send their kids to school, pay their taxes and moan about the weather, just like everyone else. The trouble is people read Daily Mail horror stories and think that every immigrant is a suicide bombing rapist living off benefits. You're naive and the reason why this country has gone to ****...........there's too many people like you with that liberal attitude. Tbh I agree with your sentiment but that will only work if people come this country with the same outlook but that's not what's happening is it? Why should I have to put up with being threatend in my own country by people who are just abusing the legal (system)?.............I wouldn't go to a foreign country and abuse the laws of that land or intentionaly try and act in a provocative manor. This does not seem to imply with some muslims who live in this country.
Smirking_Saint Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Oh dear. You are every Islamist's wet dream. A couple of lunatics with a machete and suddenly it's, 'why have we got Muslims in Britain' at all. I don't know the exact number of Muslims living in Britain but I think it's about 1 million. As far as I am aware 999,998 of those didn't murder a British soldier today so perhaps they should be tolerated. The VAST majority of Muslims in this country DO respect our laws, culture and our way of life. It's a tiny vocal minority which some people are fooled into thinking is the norm. Why are Muslims here? The same reason Poles, Indians, Caribbean's and Aussie barmen are here. To seek a job and a better way of life. Most of them do, they send their kids to school, pay their taxes and moan about the weather, just like everyone else. The trouble is people read Daily Mail horror stories and think that every immigrant is a suicide bombing rapist living off benefits. Whilst I agree with you Lighty your over enthusiasm to put someone down because of his opinion is as bad as the original posters predisposition to taring every foreign national with the same brush and TBH a little naive to the thoughts of the majority. Yes the Daily Mail does hype things up, but the government doesnt help itself here, allowing thr minority to breed their hatred of other races (be it edl or islamist etc I dont care) with what appears to be little or no action leads people down this garden path. The benefits culture that is regularly abused on both sides will always seem worse tojoe bloggs struggling to make a living yet sees someone come into his country and appear to get more help. Its over dramatised in the papers yes, but lets not pretend it doesnt happen. I have no problem with multiculturalism as on the whole people commit to our way of life and laws, but even I think its going too far now, europe and our benefits system (which yes is equally abused by white british). My boss is eastern european, he is also degree educated and working in an undersubscribed industry, these are the people we should be allowing into the UK, carefully vetted and meeting criteria, not just anyone. Oz has its head screwed on here, also if you commit a crime etc or speak of hatred you shoukd be free to be deported. Basically ignoring the facts, ignoring what I would say is the thoughts of the majority and calling people ignorant for feeling the way they do is pretty ironic TBH. There are serious racial tensions bubbling under the surface in many of our largest cities IMO and ignoring it, or any of the issues that are helping to charge peoples opinions is very dangerous.
Batman Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 (edited) At the end of the day. This event provides a MASSIVE cross roads for the government. They have been trying to talk tough on Immigrations, British Values and the EU. If they dont act TOUGH now, start deporting people like qatada who I know laugh at the system, then they will never be re elected like it or not, the whole EU and the restrictive powers that brings is a massive deal to people. UKiP will only get stronger over this time to get rid of islamic mentalists. doing so, wont make us a nasty, bad country that is equal to north korea How have we got into the position where areas of our cities (like this in London, where they are many) have almost NO british values and are a breeding ground for HATE. I very much doubt there are many people with that much sympathy in the and the surrounding areas of Woolwich. after 13 years of Labour (now finding out how much they destroyed britain) forcing their 'multi-culture' on us, now admitting they ACTIVELY looked to import foreign workers into our land (sod those who are already here, just gave them more benefits) and calling anyone who piped up about immigration RACISTS....ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. I really believe there is an under-current of real resentment of these people in these sort of areas. where will it end.? Edited 23 May, 2013 by Batman
pap Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 I have spent a bit of time going over the photos this morning. Not a lot of blood about, considering the nature of the attack. The dude in the video with bloodied hands is a classic example. Here's a bloke who has just hacked someone to death, and the only blood on him, anywhere, is on his hands. Nothing on his coat or jeans. in motion:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22634468 Similar deal with the other attacker, but it's actually a lot easier to see (as this bloke has a beige jacket on). Also, the prone body lying on the floor.
um pahars Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 At the end of the day. This event provides a MASSIVE cross roads for the government. They have been trying to talk tough on Immigrations, British Values and the EU. If they dont act TOUGH now, start deporting people like qatada who I know laugh at the system, then they will never be re elected like it or not, the whole EU and the restrictive powers that brings is a massive deal to people. UKiP will only get stronger over this time to get rid of islamic mentalists. doing so, wont make us a nasty, bad country that is equal to north korea How have we got into the position where areas of our cities (like this in London, where they are many) have almost NO british values and are a breeding ground for HATE. I very much doubt there are many people with that much sympathy in the and the surrounding areas of Woolwich. after 13 years of Labour (now finding out how much they destroyed britain) forcing their 'multi-culture' on us, now admitting they ACTIVELY looked to import foreign workers into our land (so those who are already here, just gave them more benefits) and calling anyone who piped up about immigration RACISTS....ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. I really believe there is an under-current of real resentment of these people in these sort of areas. where will it end.? Two loons who are quickly and unequivocally condemned by leaders of their own faith, local community leaders as well as many grass roots Muslims, Londoners, immigrants et al and those heady days of Mo Farah, Ennis, Ohoruogu, Ogogo are soon forgotten. Former Conservative Chairman, Lord Ashcroft's recent survey shed some light on the UK's feelings towards multiculturalism and made pleasant reading. Fortunately, extremists of all political and religious persuasion are in a very tiny minority and the overwhelming majority of UK citizens are wise enough not to indulge in knee jerk sermons and retributions. http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2013/04/19/poll-reveals-huge-public-support-for-multiculturalism http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/22/multiculturalism-won-uk-move-on
de-fence Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Oh dear. You are every Islamist's wet dream. A couple of lunatics with a machete and suddenly it's, 'why have we got Muslims in Britain' at all. I don't know the exact number of Muslims living in Britain but I think it's about 1 million. As far as I am aware 999,998 of those didn't murder a British soldier today so perhaps they should be tolerated. The VAST majority of Muslims in this country DO respect our laws, culture and our way of life. It's a tiny vocal minority which some people are fooled into thinking is the norm. Why are Muslims here? The same reason Poles, Indians, Caribbean's and Aussie barmen are here. To seek a job and a better way of life. Most of them do, they send their kids to school, pay their taxes and moan about the weather, just like everyone else. The trouble is people read Daily Mail horror stories and think that every immigrant is a suicide bombing rapist living off benefits. I'm a bit undecided on the whole immigration argument. In my view its too late to stop multi-culturalism getting out of control anyway because enough foreigners of first, second, third etc generation live here already so you have to accept that this is what our country is now. But the bit I've highlighted there is my slight gripe with it. Why do we owe foreigners a better life here in our country? Left wing people speak about it like every foreigners right to come here and live a better life, but why is this so? Some people are born British, some people are born Somali. It's just the hand that you're dealt.
Tokyo-Saint Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 What do you think Pap? It's a fake or the details of the attack, the attacking the dead body like it was meat has been exaggerated?
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 I'm a bit undecided on the whole immigration argument. In my view its too late to stop multi-culturalism getting out of control anyway because enough foreigners of first, second, third etc generation live here already so you have to accept that this is what our country is now. But the bit I've highlighted there is my slight gripe with it. Why do we owe foreigners a better life here in our country? Left wing people speak about it like every foreigners right to come here and live a better life, but why is this so? Some people are born British, some people are born Somali. It's just the hand that you're dealt. Because it's beneficial to our economy to have fresh supplies of labour and skills from elsewhere in the world? And because when people are unfortunate enough to be born into countries with terrible poverty or wars the nice thing to do is let some of then get away from it and start a life here? Ultimately, why should people have to accept the hand they're dealt? The capitalist system is such that some countries with resources or which managed to get ahead hundreds of years ago have built up massive financial strength and it's very hard for other countries to catch up. Sure, we can say tough luck to poorer countries, but it's nicer to try and let some people come and share our wealth. People who write off multi culruralism are taking too short term a view. Yes there will be teething problems is the short term, but if we keep embracing different cultures, then over the next hundreds years or so these issues will cease to be relevant
Sour Mash Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 and this is exactly the reaction that these pr*cks are looking for, they want us to hate anyone from their religon whether they are good or bad people, as soon as you start looking at all people from a group in the same way that's racism, which is exactly the devisive outcome that they are hoping to incite by their words and actions, they can then have their holy muslim vs christian war that they want so badly! What the hell are you on about? Who has referred to all Muslims?
Viking Warrior Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Pap . I apologise in advance if I MIS represent your post above but are you for real ? Are you insinuating that this is a government set up like the Boston conspiracy using actors . If you are you are one very sick individual . There is an awful of blood about . Look at the pictures on the pavement by the blue car . There is a massive amount of blood . Al Jazeera has more graphic photos . I believe the British media have withdrawn the more graphic pictures out of respect to the soldier and their family . Have some respect for the dead soldier . Instead of suggesting a lack of blood may indicate a conspiracy. Just for your information an of duty British soldier has been butchered to death . Or had you forgotten that
Viking Warrior Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 I would suspect that the two guys responsible were Sunni Muslims or have been radicalised by Sunni imans . Radical Sunnis are taught to cut of the heads of their enemy's
pap Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Pap . I apologise in advance if I MIS represent your post above but are you for real ? Are you insinuating that this is a government set up like the Boston conspiracy using actors . If you are you are one very sick individual . There is an awful of blood about . Look at the pictures on the pavement by the blue car . There is a massive amount of blood . Al Jazeera has more graphic photos . I believe the British media have withdrawn the more graphic pictures out of respect to the soldier and their family . Have some respect for the dead soldier . Instead of suggesting a lack of blood may indicate a conspiracy. Just for your information an of duty British soldier has been butchered to death . Or had you forgotten that Yeah, I'm well aware of the "butchered to death" business. This is really the root of my issue with those photos. The two perpetrators managed to butcher someone to death without much blood appearing anywhere. Is it your view that in order to question one part of an account, one has to have a complete understanding of everything?
LVSaint Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 The two perpetrators managed to butcher someone to death without much blood appearing anywhere. Could they have put their jackets on after the killing? lots of blood on the pavement where the beheading appears to have happened. headless body having been moved into the road is less likely to bleed since the heart isn't pumping any more blood out of the wound. Makes sense to me.
B Rabbit Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Yeah, I'm well aware of the "butchered to death" business. This is really the root of my issue with those photos. The two perpetrators managed to butcher someone to death without much blood appearing anywhere. Is it your view that in order to question one part of an account, one has to have a complete understanding of everything? I love conspiracy and questioning things... I don't think this one is anything of the sort though...eye witness said they were butchering him up against the wall and then dragged his body to the road.... I think it's pretty real! Scroll down a few to the aerial... http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4938855/Pluck-of-cub-leader-who-challenged-Woolwich-terrorist-who-wanted-to-start-war-on-the-streets-of-London.html
Turkish Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Ah you've got me there, I obviously must support the attack then. Blast. You seems more interested in accusing everyone of being racist rather than what actually happened, its a bit odd Mikey.
pap Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Could they have put their jackets on after the killing? lots of blood on the pavement where the beheading appears to have happened. headless body having been moved into the road is less likely to bleed since the heart isn't pumping any more blood out of the wound. Makes sense to me. Oh aye, but that'd be at odds with the reports of them being crazed maniacs, wouldn't it? Crazed maniacs ready to start a war concerned about the state of their jackets. Matey in the video had jeans on with no blood on them either. Do you reckon he took them off too?
pap Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 I love conspiracy and questioning things... I don't think this one is anything of the sort though...eye witness said they were butchering him up against the wall and then dragged his body to the road.... I think it's pretty real! Scroll down a few to the aerial... http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4938855/Pluck-of-cub-leader-who-challenged-Woolwich-terrorist-who-wanted-to-start-war-on-the-streets-of-London.html The headline says "Brave mum tackles bloodied fanatic". The fanatic has no blood on him
LVSaint Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Oh aye, but that'd be at odds with the reports of them being crazed maniacs, wouldn't it? Crazed maniacs ready to start a war concerned about the state of their jackets. Matey in the video had jeans on with no blood on them either. Do you reckon he took them off too? They do look pretty clean....hmmmmmmm. I'm not an expert though on decapitation and blood splatters, what do you think happened here? Should there have been more blood on the ground?
pap Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 They do look pretty clean....hmmmmmmm. I'm not an expert though on decapitation and blood splatters, what do you think happened here? Should there have been more blood on the ground? Honestly don't know. Like yourself, I'm no expert on blood spatter or decapitation. I'm just pulling at a few loose threads.
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 You're naive and the reason why this country has gone to ****...........there's too many people like you with that liberal attitude. Tbh I agree with your sentiment but that will only work if people come this country with the same outlook but that's not what's happening is it? Why should I have to put up with being threatend in my own country by people who are just abusing the legal (system)?.............I wouldn't go to a foreign country and abuse the laws of that land or intentionaly try and act in a provocative manor. This does not seem to imply with some muslims who live in this country. Oh stop being such an hysterical tart. Since the dawn of time there have been reactionaries moaning that the country has gone to **** and that it was so much better X years ago.
OldNick Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Honestly don't know. Like yourself, I'm no expert on blood spatter or decapitation. I'm just pulling at a few loose threads. i once had the misfortune of seeing a beheading video and surprisingly the blood did not rush out as it does on a Monty Python video.
Saint_Pedro Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Honestly don't know. Like yourself, I'm no expert on blood spatter or decapitation. I'm just pulling at a few loose threads. You really are a weirdo. Exactly how many hours a day do you spend tapping away at your laptop?
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 23 May, 2013 Posted 23 May, 2013 Honestly don't know. Like yourself, I'm no expert on blood spatter or decapitation. I'm just pulling at a few loose threads. Come on mate you're better than this. The footage and photos are poor resolution plus the clothes are dark, it's hardly surprising you can't see loads of blood. In any case: there is a body, bloody smears on the pavement, bloody hands of one of the attackers who was holding a cleaver and loads of witnesses who saw them attacking the victim.
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