Mr X Posted 20 May, 2013 Posted 20 May, 2013 West-ham don't have a vastly superior side on paper but they managed to be a top ten club (just) in their first season back. What do you think separates us and them? was it our failure to sort out defensive and goalkeeping issues earlier? big sams experience? or merely that tenth is not a true reflection of them or their football and a bit flattering. Are west ham a bigger club than us?....................
Leicestersaint Posted 20 May, 2013 Posted 20 May, 2013 I think that West Ham are one of the worst sides I saw this season - ugly football played the ugly way! I am very glad I support Saints and not WHU.
Turkish Posted 20 May, 2013 Posted 20 May, 2013 Thy have a fantastic man manager in Sam Allerdyce and two players of real quality in Andy Carroll and James Collins as well as the leadership of Kevin Nolan. HTH
Saint Garrett Posted 20 May, 2013 Posted 20 May, 2013 They're a bigger club than us, have older experienced players, and had a good start. Whether thats the ideal long term way of setting up a football club I don't know, but they play to their strengths and buy players to play to their system. Think we'll finish above them next year though.
Joensuu Posted 20 May, 2013 Posted 20 May, 2013 West-ham don't have a vastly superior side on paper but they managed to be a top ten club (just) in their first season back. What do you think separates us and them? was it our failure to sort out defensive and goalkeeping issues earlier? big sams experience? or merely that tenth is not a true reflection of them or their football and a bit flattering. I feel that the main difference between the teams is the 7 less goals they conceded. We are better going forwards, but not significantly so. Our tactics make for far more interesting viewing. Big Sam's experience counts for little IMO, I think it more likely that Big Sam is actually holding them back. Tenth only seems flattering until you look a the points - 46 is good, but in most seasons wouldn't get you 10th place. This year teams like Spurs have performed better than you'd usually expect the 5th best team to do; while pretty much the entire bottom half of the table is very close (except the bottom two). So, overall, add a top quality central defender, and don't lose any of our better players, and we would be better than the current West Ham squad. Add another player who knows where the net is (midfield or up front) on top of the centre back, and suddenly we will be pushing for 8th and up. Are west ham a bigger club than us?.................... 'Bigger' is subjective, but by almost any rational way to define 'bigger', West Ham are a far bigger club IMO.
hutch Posted 20 May, 2013 Posted 20 May, 2013 West Ham bought instant success. Remember they had around £16m advantage last season to keep their largely PL squad intact, then topped it up. We bought future success. We'll see who got it right over the next few years.
70's Mike Posted 20 May, 2013 Posted 20 May, 2013 They're a bigger club than us, have older experienced players, and had a good start. Whether thats the ideal long term way of setting up a football club I don't know, but they play to their strengths and buy players to play to their system. Think we'll finish above them next year though. Agreed
Mr X Posted 20 May, 2013 Author Posted 20 May, 2013 I think that West Ham are one of the worst sides I saw this season - ugly football played the ugly way! I am very glad I support Saints and not WHU. the pretty stuff above lump it forward? lump it forward was more effective but i think we will be as good if not better than them next season if we can make the right quality of additions
trousers Posted 20 May, 2013 Posted 20 May, 2013 We're a 'work in progress' whereas West Ham are a finished article, ergo we will finish above West Ham next season. IMHO of course.
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 20 May, 2013 Posted 20 May, 2013 Mentally tougher - even Pochettino referred to "our lack of mental strength over the last 10 matches" - every team needs a nasty bastard - they have Nolan we have.................
70's Mike Posted 20 May, 2013 Posted 20 May, 2013 Mentally tougher - even Pochettino referred to "our lack of mental strength over the last 10 matches" - every team needs a nasty bastard - they have Nolan we have................. NC sorry forgot not on the pitch, think MP knows the dirty side of the game, watch the players learn next season
UpweySaint Posted 20 May, 2013 Posted 20 May, 2013 At the risk of being smug I think long term we'l show our way to be the better way. West ham have a reputation for a cracking academy and quality football, neither of which are likely to be embraced under allardyce, hopefully we'l kick and build in the right way. Only major spanner in the works if the very iffy deal with them getting the olympic stadium. How they're getting such a stadium with the facilities and non matchday revenue stream oppurtunities for a pittance while other clubs, such as ourselves arsenal etc, have to rack up large debts to build our own is a bizarre arrangement and one that will likely be questioned later on in line with the rules of football clubs not being able to be backed by govt/councils etc that are currently stirring up trouble over europe.
SNSUN Posted 20 May, 2013 Posted 20 May, 2013 Experience. They had bucket loads, we had Steven Davis. I would happily bet that things will be different next season with our respective league positions...
Mr X Posted 20 May, 2013 Author Posted 20 May, 2013 Experience. They had bucket loads, we had Steven Davis. I would happily bet that things will be different next season with our respective league positions... whats wrong with steven davis?
SNSUN Posted 20 May, 2013 Posted 20 May, 2013 whats wrong with steven davis? Nothing at all, he just represented the Premier League experience we had in our squad at the start of the season, bar a handful of appearances from Frazer, Fox and Kelvin. West Ham's, in comparison, was rich in Premier League experience as it was only the season before last they were in the Prem.
Smirking_Saint Posted 20 May, 2013 Posted 20 May, 2013 I expect you'll find a way to blame Ramirez though Mr X
S-Clarke Posted 20 May, 2013 Posted 20 May, 2013 They've got a deeper squad and more premier league experience, maybe not much difference quality wise in the starting 11's, but we don't really have much below the 11 - whereas west ham have a bit more depth. As much as I dislike Nolan, you can't hide away from the fact that he's a pretty decent midfield player. When they came down a year or so ago, they kept the basis of a decent PL squad. Nolan, Noble, Collisson, Cole, O'Neil, Taylor etc. They probably didn't perform to their maximum last year, but the squad they had gave them a decent head start in the PL.
Marsdinho Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 whats wrong with steven davis? Whats his role in the team? Does he do it effectively?
Marsdinho Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 Thy have a fantastic man manager in Sam Allerdyce and two players of real quality in Andy Carroll and James Collins as well as the leadership of Kevin Nolan. HTH Wow, do you honestly believe that!
trousers Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 It turns out the difference was..... we hit the woodwork more than they did.... http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?45005-We-are-top-ten-!!!!
JN9 Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 Wow, do you honestly believe that! I must say that Andy Carroll has looked like a pretty good premier league striker towards the end of this season. I personally think that he was the main reason that West Ham got a point at St Marys, and he seemed to be in good form in and around that game. Dare I say it, I think he deserves his place ahead of Lambert in the England squad (at the moment). But yes, Andy Carroll is a quality player, especially in a Sam Allerdyce team.
UpweySaint Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 Wow, do you honestly believe that! Quality debatable but he can be an effective weapon. Just think back to the euros with england, basically carried the side at points with him being our only outball and held up the ball well to bring others inot the game.
Marsdinho Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 I must say that Andy Carroll has looked like a pretty good premier league striker towards the end of this season. I personally think that he was the main reason that West Ham got a point at St Marys, and he seemed to be in good form in and around that game. Dare I say it, I think he deserves his place ahead of Lambert in the England squad (at the moment). But yes, Andy Carroll is a quality player, especially in a Sam Allerdyce team. I know its rambling off topic, but i guess it proves that what they say about football it correct...its all about opinions. I appreciate that someone like Allardyce would bring the best out of Carroll, but I just don't rate him at all. I guess we'll just have to wait and see on that one, when Carroll retires, ill dig this thread up and one of us can laugh at the other . Although, if I were a West Ham fan, Id be worried about this little statement of footballing intent for next season... ""If we can start with Andy Carroll, that would be a great achievement for us as he can only get better and better, then we build around that in terms of how we want to improve next year, with better quality" - Fat Sam.
JN9 Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 I know its rambling off topic, but i guess it proves that what they say about football it correct...its all about opinions. I appreciate that someone like Allardyce would bring the best out of Carroll, but I just don't rate him at all. I guess we'll just have to wait and see on that one, when Carroll retires, ill dig this thread up and one of us can laugh at the other . Although, if I were a West Ham fan, Id be worried about this little statement of footballing intent for next season... ""If we can start with Andy Carroll, that would be a great achievement for us as he can only get better and better, then we build around that in terms of how we want to improve next year, with better quality" - Fat Sam. I was going to add in my original post that I'd quite happily take Carroll as a Lambert replacement, but then thinking about it, I'm not entirely sure that I would. (Can't decide either way) I'm much happier to be playing the way we are and not bulding a team around lumping it to Carroll... Although I still believe that he is very good at what he does.
Marsdinho Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 Should also add that I believe we'll pass West Ham over the next year or two, the style of football fat sam peddles is dead in the water.
tajjuk Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 Personally I think it was down to them having an easier start of fixtures that allowed them get going in the league to get their form and confidence going. We had a baptism of fire and I think it took a little while for our players to truly believe they belonged here.
The9 Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 (edited) West-ham don't have a vastly superior side on paper but they managed to be a top ten club (just) in their first season back. What do you think separates us and them? was it our failure to sort out defensive and goalkeeping issues earlier? big sams experience? or merely that tenth is not a true reflection of them or their football and a bit flattering. Are west ham a bigger club than us?.................... It was the fact they had a team full of players who'd played in the Prem in 2010/11 plus a £35m striker suited to their style, so they hit the ground running. We took 11 games to get comfortable with what was required. They were more than 10 points and 15 places ahead of us by then. Edited 21 May, 2013 by The9 Financial inaccuracy.
Chez Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 No one said long ball football wasn't effective, to a point.
Saint86 Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 It was the fact they had a team full of players who'd played in the Prem in 2010/11 plus a £50m striker suited to their style, so they hit the ground running. We took 11 games to get comfortable with what was required. They were more than 10 points and 15 places ahead of us by then. I thought Torres played for Chelsea? At least some of the time!!!! He's so ineffective I must have missed him playing for West Ham.. that explains why he only gets on the pitch every other game at least!! Also, is this another eample of West Ham cheating their way in the world... double registration of a player at 2 clubs at once, tut tut.
The9 Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 Hah, yeah £35m. Whatever, it was far too much for Andy Carroll.
Appy Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 People go on about this "long ball" stuff that they play, but it works for them and Stoke, we took 3 points from 12 in the games against those teams this season. Until we learn to play against it, we are vunerable.
CB Saint Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 Gazza in Goal. it we had played Boruc earlier we would have been that top ten side.
Appy Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 Gazza in Goal. it we had played Boruc earlier we would have been that top ten side.[/quote Agreed, Adkins cost us by messing around with the keepers, dropping Boruc after 2 games was a joke.
UpweySaint Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 Gazza in Goal. it we had played Boruc earlier we would have been that top ten side.[/quote Agreed, Adkins cost us by messing around with the keepers, dropping Boruc after 2 games was a joke. When Boruc came in he was not match fit, was not in form and had that unfortunate incident. Hindsight is twenty twenty and it may have been better to stick with him earlier on but who'd have known at the time?
Mr X Posted 21 May, 2013 Author Posted 21 May, 2013 I expect you'll find a way to blame Ramirez though Mr X I expect your'll find a way to vastly inflate his contribution to the team too but noones perfect
Saintjersey Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 When Boruc came in he was not match fit, was not in form and had that unfortunate incident. Hindsight is twenty twenty and it may have been better to stick with him earlier on but who'd have known at the time? One player had played for his country, in a title winning team and in the Champions League whilst the other player had played no higher than League 2. I think anyone with any common sense can see who should have played.
UpweySaint Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 One player had played for his country, in a title winning team and in the Champions League whilst the other player had played no higher than League 2. I think anyone with any common sense can see who should have played. Yeah im sure he watched them in training, didnt just go on a hunch Boruc no doubt the more talented proven keeper but, at the time, there were solid reasons for giving Gazzaniga - a player with strong potential who showed some flashes of quality - a chance, he didnt take it, Adkins moved on. By the time NA was our Boruc was our established number one.
Saint_Tony Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 Why the need for the constant comparisons to West Ham? They're a completely different club to us, with (rightly or wrongly) a completely different style of play and strategy regarding signing players. They have done better than us over the course of 38 games, but let's worry about our own team moving forward, we are looking to bring in quality additions, not paying 17 millions for Andy Carroll Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2
The9 Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 Yeah im sure he watched them in training, didnt just go on a hunch Boruc no doubt the more talented proven keeper but, at the time, there were solid reasons for giving Gazzaniga - a player with strong potential who showed some flashes of quality - a chance, he didnt take it, Adkins moved on. By the time NA was our Boruc was our established number one. We signed Boruc on 22 September which was the day we played Villa, Adkins only played Gazzaniga against Everton and Fulham after that (he made mistakes costing goals in both, but we weren't getting anything at Everton anyway).
Appy Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 One player had played for his country, in a title winning team and in the Champions League whilst the other player had played no higher than League 2. I think anyone with any common sense can see who should have played. Quote malfunction there, i didn't say that.
once_bitterne Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 Mentally tougher - even Pochettino referred to "our lack of mental strength over the last 10 matches" - every team needs a nasty bastard - they have Nolan we have................. Just wait until next season after MP brings in Jamie O'Hara.........
ART Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 West Ham get their new signings in and get them to blend. Saints, QPR and Reading left it too late and their season suffered as a result. Pochettino the mouth says all signings will be in by 1st July. I say he's either naive or drugged to the eyeballs. It'll never happen. Do we all agree?
Appy Posted 21 May, 2013 Posted 21 May, 2013 West Ham get their new signings in and get them to blend. Saints, QPR and Reading left it too late and their season suffered as a result. Pochettino the mouth says all signings will be in by 1st July. I say he's either naive or drugged to the eyeballs. It'll never happen. Do we all agree? He didn't say all signings would be in by the 1st of July.
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