SaintAmongSkates Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 The fog is clearing and I see an image forming. Yes, the Duck Hunter is back in charge and he's managed to persuade Harry Houdini to step in and help save us from ourselves..... Off to slit my wrists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 If NC has taken this public, he will have lost a lot of trust and respect from what is a very private family, and the working relationship is over. Which I believe is exactly what he wants. NC is looking to oust the Liebherrs and replace with a party that is actually interested in the future. the Liebherrs are not Markus, the Trust do not have the same vision or desire to take us forward, NC wants someone backing him who has that same desire and drive. We need to cut through the sentiment that connects us with the Liebherrs, and see that our future is not with them but is with NC, at least in the next 2-3 years. Let the Liebherrs go back to their cranes and horses. The sooner the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Which I believe is exactly what he wants. NC is looking to oust the Liebherrs and replace with a party that is actually interested in the future. the Liebherrs are not Markus, the Trust do not have the same vision or desire to take us forward, NC wants someone backing him who has that same desire and drive. We need to cut through the sentiment that connects us with the Liebherrs, and see that our future is not with them but is with NC, at least in the next 2-3 years. Let the Liebherrs go back to their cranes and horses. The sooner the better. Well, maybe.... A bit too forcefully expressed, imo. We have a lot to thank the Liebherr family for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi7s Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 People having a pop at MP for showing no 'allegiance' or 'loyalty' need to get a grip. I want our club playing exciting football, with actual ambition, not some yo-yo, defeatist mentality - justified as 'we have a loyal manager'. Over time MP's affinity for Saints and its supporters will grow, but its been four months ffs. And already in that time he has actually tried to build something, with modern methods and a proper footballing philosophy. Lets get behind him and Cortese on Saturday and make it clear that we, as a club, are willing to show a bit of courage and ambition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaysaint Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Let the Liebherrs go back to their cranes and horses. The sooner the better. Wow, unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 People having a pop at MP for showing no 'allegiance' or 'loyalty' need to get a grip. I want our club playing exciting football, with actual ambition, not some yo-yo, defeatist mentality - justified as 'we have a loyal manager'. Over time MP's affinity for Saints and its supporters will grow, but its been four months ffs. And already in that time he has actually tried to build something, with modern methods and a proper footballing philosophy. Lets get behind him and Cortese on Saturday and make it clear that we, as a club, are willing to show a bit of courage and ambition. Why present it as if these are the only two possible options? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Wow, unbelievable. Why is it unbelievable? You are mixing up Markus and the rest of the family. The rest of the family have zero interest in SFC. As I said get the emotions out of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Why is it unbelievable? You are mixing up Markus and the rest of the family. The rest of the family have zero interest in SFC. As I said get the emotions out of the way. How many millions of debt did they write off again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc1976 Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Pochettino has only been here a few months, all that nonsense about Champions League, players signing contracts presumably on the basis of the clubs direction and ambition, and then a few weeks later all this happens?? Are we to assume that on no occasion did Cortese actually consult the family to see if they actually shared his vision?! I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, but surely it would have been sensible to check first! I mean if it was the difference of a few million here or there for players then that would be understandable, but it would appear there is a fundamental disagreement on where we go next. Hope us lot don't end up the victims in this power struggle. Some kind of statement from the 'trust'/family would be great, but no doubt that's a long shot. Hey ho, so used to all this nonsense now that boring mid-table mediocrity combined with a largely invisible chairman would probably be even more strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 So the chances of them telling ex-saints players their thoughts on Cortese and emailing random fans back are....... Fook all IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 (edited) Wow, unbelievable. especially as they don't do cranes but I'm guessing Vectis knows that. Cranes; plant equipment; fridges; freezers = bags of money that you can actually sort of verify Saints; common rail technology etc = not so evident because it's unverifiable. Edited 16 May, 2013 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 When it comes to manipulating the fans, I honestly think that Nicola is a master. He has played us all beautifully on this one... when it came to Adkins' sacking he readily took all the flack and pressure by not attending the press conference... so much so that few people knocked Poch for effectively taking the job from underneath Adkins. He played Le Tiss into being a fool when it came to their "agreed" meeting - and numerous other examples with Le Tissier, so that the fans now side with NC over Le God... I don't think Cortese has made a single move at saints that he trully regrets in hindsight. This is just another example now, he is making a power play, and all of sudden "Mr behind closed doors" has whipped up a media frenzy for his won benefit. I have no doubts that NC is a ruthless genius, I honestly think at this point that he has intended every media interaction that has occurred, and the ones that may have gone against his plan are to small for him to care about. Ultimately, Its Nicola's plans, and he has not done anything wrong yet... so he if wants to take on the owners then good luck to him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 This is more like it. This is the Saints we all know and love. It's felt weird following a team doing well with hardly any off pitch turmoil for the last few years. Welcome back Southampton FC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 How many millions of debt did they write off again? could be a legacy for all we know; this is the whole point.The late Markus obviously made provision for Saints but we could now be at the end of that provision and the future is somewhat uncertain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailOB Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Manager in support of man who employed him shocker !! What a load of BS. MP makes a comment just like every player does when asked about a manager under pressure or playing for a new manager etc... All meaningless comments. As for the affect on future transfers - players are mercenaries. If they get offerred more money to play at another club and have the chance to put themselves in the shop window, change of manager means nothing. Overall, not too bothered by the whole episode, we had bigger concerns a few years ago when we very nearly had no club at all. Now we are all worrying over a chairman and manager. I don't want NC or MP to leave but if they do I really don't think its the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Well, maybe.... A bit too forcefully expressed, imo. We have a lot to thank the Liebherr family for. Actually we don't. We have a hell of a lot to thank Markus Liebherr for. It is was his pet project, his hobby, his passion. No-one else in the family. Remember marks pretty much cut himself off from the rest of the family, he gave back shares in main company and started his own organisation. That doesn;t mean there was any bad feeling necessarily but he was an independent man. Why does anyone think that other members of thr family will have that same passion and vision? What seems to have happened here is that finally the completion of the probate process has ended (speculation on my part) and now with complete control of the purse strings whoever now heads up the trust is calling the shots and is clearly not up for the same vision as was markus. Sadly nothing anyone can do about that, you cannot will someone to be enthusiatic for a project. Markus ensured that financially we would be OK but being financially OK is not the same as trying to take things to another level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 could be a legacy for all we know; this is the whole point.The late Markus obviously made provision for Saints but we could now be at the end of that provision and the future is somewhat uncertain. It would be way more uncertain if we were not owned by billionaires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertySFC Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 "We want to have everything set up and tied down for 1st July, so we're working as if everything is as it is. I have total confidence and faith that Nicola will be here next season, and that I will be here as well." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 It would be way more uncertain if we were not owned by billionaires. something which I personally question anyway. Nothing I've seen has ever convinced me that the late Markus was in fact a billionaire in any currency apart from Nigerian Nagwes or Russian Roubles. Certainly had a handy spot of the old folding though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 (edited) especially as they don't do cranes but I'm guessing Vectis knows that. Cranes; plant equipment; fridges; freezers = bags of money that you can qctually sort of verify Saints; common rail technology etc = not so evident because it's unverifiable. The common rail technology business is no more from what I understand, MALI Group has effectively been wound up. As you say the Liebherr family business does cranes and other plant equipment (and electrical white goods and hotels) and have no interest in what MALI did, including Saints. I think some people (not you Windows) do not realise the difference between the Liebherr family and Markus Liebherr as far as business is concerned. There is (was) no overlap, the only reason there is now is because presumably it was left to members of the family in Markus' will (and I'm not talking simply about his daughters, but Isolde and Willi). They are pure business people who want to make money and see SFC as being not part of their core business and so are not too interested in moving it forward. Edited 16 May, 2013 by VectisSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Actually we don't. We have a hell of a lot to thank Markus Liebherr for. It is was his pet project, his hobby, his passion. No-one else in the family. Remember marks pretty much cut himself off from the rest of the family, he gave back shares in main company and started his own organisation. That doesn;t mean there was any bad feeling necessarily but he was an independent man. Why does anyone think that other members of thr family will have that same passion and vision? What seems to have happened here is that finally the completion of the probate process has ended (speculation on my part) and now with complete control of the purse strings whoever now heads up the trust is calling the shots and is clearly not up for the same vision as was markus. Sadly nothing anyone can do about that, you cannot will someone to be enthusiatic for a project. Markus ensured that financially we would be OK but being financially OK is not the same as trying to take things to another level. Sorry, most of this post is garbage. The beneficiaries of his will are not those elements of the family that he "cut himself off from", but his own descendants. They are the ones who have been brought under the (probably unwelcome) spotlight by these events. They could have cut us off at the knees once the probate period was over, but they havent appeared to have done that, and there is no indication now that they are looking to sell (unless someone comes calling with a good offer). There are a multitude of possible reasons why they havent signed off on NCs vision, from the bad publicity he attracts to the sheer cost. We dont know which it is, or if it is something else. So give you stroppy contrariness a break, FFS. I'd rather have owners like them than the mixture of w*nkers and loonies like Lowe, Wilde, Askham, Crouch, etc. that we had so recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 "We want to have everything set up and tied down for 1st July, so we're working as if everything is as it is. I have total confidence and faith that Nicola will be here next season, and that I will be here as well." Strange the journalists didnt report this part... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 This is more like it. This is the Saints we all know and love. It's felt weird following a team doing well with hardly any off pitch turmoil for the last few years. Welcome back Southampton FC. As someone else mentioned, just as something good happens something happens quickly after which causes doubt and confusion Saints win JPT- Markus passes away Saints start 2nd season in League 1 favourites to go up- Pardew sacked Saints get promotion to Championship- Adkins makes strange comments about passing of ways Saints start to play well in the prem- Adkins sacked Saints avoid relegation- Doubts over NC future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Which I believe is exactly what he wants. NC is looking to oust the Liebherrs and replace with a party that is actually interested in the future. the Liebherrs are not Markus, the Trust do not have the same vision or desire to take us forward, NC wants someone backing him who has that same desire and drive. We need to cut through the sentiment that connects us with the Liebherrs, and see that our future is not with them but is with NC, at least in the next 2-3 years. Let the Liebherrs go back to their cranes and horses. The sooner the better. I'd be ok with this if there was any remote indication that that was Cortese's aim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 As someone else mentioned, just as something good happens something happens quickly after which causes doubt and confusion Saints win JPT- Markus passes away Saints start 2nd season in League 1 favourites to go up- Pardew sacked Saints get promotion to Championship- Adkins makes strange comments about passing of ways Saints start to play well in the prem- Adkins sacked Saints avoid relegation- Doubts over NC future Why shouldnt the off-field shennanigans mirror those on-field ? We should have been safe weeks ago (maybe we were as things turn out, but its easy to say that with hindsight - we should have been pushing for 50points). We also threw away the NPC title last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Which I believe is exactly what he wants. NC is looking to oust the Liebherrs and replace with a party that is actually interested in the future. the Liebherrs are not Markus, the Trust do not have the same vision or desire to take us forward, NC wants someone backing him who has that same desire and drive. We need to cut through the sentiment that connects us with the Liebherrs, and see that our future is not with them but is with NC, at least in the next 2-3 years. Let the Liebherrs go back to their cranes and horses. The sooner the better. You turn on the family that saved our club a bit quick, French? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Strange the journalists didnt report this part... "Nothing changing" =/= news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 How many millions of debt did they write off again? None Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 None transformed into equity which isn't the same as writing off of course. Equity is a saleable asset but if you have cash flow problems(not suggesting that of course) then it can be a bit of a pain unless you can sell it on.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Strover Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Alpine sets new record by predicting relegation by 2nd week of May ..... 12 months in advance Yup - I agree 100% Warsash Saint. I was going to give visiting this forum and posting on here a lovely long break but actually predicting relegation for next season before the current one has finished is truly astounding. What if the two in question do in fact leave and then a more wealthy investor purchases the club and installs a really savvy chairman and they in turn employ and very popular and well-known manager? Things could get better! Truth be told not one of us on here has a clue and absolutely no one knows what the future - not one single person in the history of humanity has actually predicted the future....only guessed and on the occasion got it right and then claimed 'second sight'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Boo hoo my manager might leave at work so I think I will quit too! Pathetic........ get on with your job, quit being a media monkey and show some loyalty!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch01 Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 And now Schneiderlin says every player would consider their future were Cortese and Poch to leave. Talk about a show of support for the chairman. I hope the Leibherrs see sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 And now Schneiderlin says every player would consider their future were Cortese and Poch to leave. Talk about a show of support for the chairman. I hope the Leibherrs see sense. During that time, key first-team players such as midfielders Morgan Schneiderlin and Adam Lallana have signed new long-term contracts. Schneiderlin, who was voted the Players' Player and Fans' Player of the Year on Tuesday, admitted the doubt surrounding the positions of Cortese and Pochettino was worrying. Asked how the squad would react if both men left this summer, Schneiderlin said told the club website: "It would put everything in question again for every single player. "The chairman and Mauricio Pochettino are a big part of this club. They are selling the project to us and that's why I signed a new contract, as well as other players doing the same." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallagroth Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 And now Schneiderlin says every player would consider their future were Cortese and Poch to leave. Talk about a show of support for the chairman. I hope the Leibherrs see sense. Source for this one? (not accusatory just interested) Edit: Dig Dig ^. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Source for this one? (not accusatory just interested) http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22552344 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallagroth Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 knee jerk reaction= Fucked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Source for this one? (not accusatory just interested) Horse's mouth: http://www.player.saintsfc.co.uk/latest-news/article/3180883/date/20130516115000/page/0/name/Schneiderlin's-Pre-Stoke-Press-Conference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Seems more and more like a big offensive on behalf of NC. I'm not so sure the club would be keen to release stuff from MP and MS if there is a strong possibility of them leaving. NC just seizing an opportunity to highlight his importance to the club amist others clamouring for position now that we are a bigger asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallagroth Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 (edited) I hope so Dig Dig, it's what I was suggesting a great many pages back on the main thread but I'm now of the opinion that there is no smoke without fire, albeit I think this is more likely to be the equivalent of a match lighting Cortese's victory cigar. Edited 16 May, 2013 by Mallagroth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 (edited) I hope so Dig Dig, it's what I was suggesting a great many pages back but I'm now of the opinion that there is no smoke without fire, albeit I think this is more likely to be the equivalent of a match lighting Cortese's victory cigar. My take is that NC has been informed of some organisational changes which the trust want to implement which he feels would undermine where he was planning on taking the club next season and beyond. I think he is using the press, MP and players to reinforce his position at the club. Obviously a big gamble and they could call his bluff but it would be a big call by the Liebherrs if they felt that it would lead to the team management leaving as well as some key players. Ultimately, this could jeapordise the premier league position of the club and subsequent value. Edited 16 May, 2013 by Dig Dig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallagroth Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 My take is that NC has been informed of some organisational changes which the trust want to implement which he feels would undermine where he was planning on taking the club next season and beyond. I think he is using the press, MP and players to reinforce his position at the club. Obviously a big gamble and they could call his bluff but it would be a big call by the Liebherrs if they felt that it would lead to the team management leaving as well as some key players. Ultimately, this could jeapordise the premier league position of the club and subsequent value. Nail on head I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 My stereotypical impression of Italians, before the hard nosed Cortese arrived, was of a character that would turn and run at the first sign of conflict or disagreement. Let's hope NC is made of sterner stuff and if the Liebherrs want out, then he is able to broker a deal with those investors he has previously declared are waiting in the wings. To turn and run just is too sterotypical Italian ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 My stereotypical impression of Italians, before the hard nosed Cortese arrived, was of a character that would turn and run at the first sign of conflict or disagreement. Let's hope NC is made of sterner stuff and if the Liebherrs want out, then he is able to broker a deal with those investors he has previously declared are waiting in the wings. To turn and run just is too sterotypical Italian ! They don't want to sell club. They want a new CEO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 This is more like it. This is the Saints we all know and love. It's felt weird following a team doing well with hardly any off pitch turmoil for the last few years. Welcome back Southampton FC. Aint that so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 They don't want to sell club. They want a new CEO. Well let's hope they have someone waiting in the wings, watching NC every move these past few months, a bit like MP when NA was fired ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Here's a random thought that just entered one's head.... Maybe the Liebherrs are wanting to float the club (turn it into a PLC) and in doing so would need to have a more transparent and re-organised boardroom, with Cortese losing his autonomy in the process? Any mileage in this random thought or time to fetch my coat (for the umpteenth time on this matter)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Here's a random thought that just entered one's head.... Maybe the Liebherrs are wanting to float the club (turn it into a PLC) and in doing so would need to have a more transparent and re-organised boardroom, with Cortese losing his autonomy in the process? Any mileage in this random thought or time to fetch my coat (for the umpteenth time on this matter)? How many coats have you got ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 How many coats have you got ?? 37 at the last count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Here's a random thought that just entered one's head.... Maybe the Liebherrs are wanting to float the club (turn it into a PLC) and in doing so would need to have a more transparent and re-organised boardroom, with Cortese losing his autonomy in the process? Any mileage in this random thought or time to fetch my coat (for the umpteenth time on this matter)? I reckon they could be planning to create a community owned club through the trust - which would have the same effect of diluting his power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 The common rail technology business is no more from what I understand, MALI Group has effectively been wound up. As you say the Liebherr family business does cranes and other plant equipment (and electrical white goods and hotels) and have no interest in what MALI did, including Saints. I think some people (not you Windows) do not realise the difference between the Liebherr family and Markus Liebherr as far as business is concerned. There is (was) no overlap, the only reason there is now is because presumably it was left to members of the family in Markus' will (and I'm not talking simply about his daughters, but Isolde and Willi). They are pure business people who want to make money and see SFC as being not part of their core business and so are not too interested in moving it forward. All still in Swiss probate, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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