Bearsy Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Serious question, don't people just get to a level of wealth were they are just happy with what they have? What happened to the piramid of needs? Was this just a 90's thing? Why do people need more and more and not move on to other goals, like bringing success to the club? One day even Turks might sing the NC song and his life will be complete. you mean like when delldays changed name to brett + moved to camden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Yeah, exactly like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 i thought that was what you meant. i couldn't quite see where the pyramids come into it tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 I'm the Urban Spaceman babe, but, here comes the twist. I don't exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Save that **** for the muppet show bear. Reading your posts are bad enough as it is but when you start going on about Camden and Delldays being Brett or whatever, it's tedious!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 @cj_garrett: @reluctantnicko any idea on this news about Cortese/Liebherrs falling out Alan? Empty threats or real? @reluctantnicko: @cj_garrett Owners want more value for their money. Which is fair enough really. Millions spunked on Mayuka Ramirez and Forren for very little return thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSaint Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Another (small) insight into the situation on twitter... Jayrodfan2! Jayrodfan2! @Jayrodfan2 4h @alex_crook u think cortese will stay Alex Goring Crook Alex Goring Crook @alex_crook 3h @Jayrodfan2 yes i do. Think it is too much hassle for the Liebherr family to take back control Jayrodfan2! Jayrodfan2! @Jayrodfan2 3h @alex_crook I hope he does any whispers from club ? Alex Goring Crook Alex Goring Crook @alex_crook 1m @Jayrodfan2 nobody getting too alarmed. Read into that what you will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSaint Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Which is fair enough really. Millions spunked on Mayuka Ramirez and Forren for very little return thus far. Not to mention that this money was spent without recouping any back from player sales, so it is an understandable position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Save that **** for the muppet show bear. Reading your posts are bad enough as it is but when you start going on about Camden and Delldays being Brett or whatever, it's tedious!!! pffft you brought it up! I only come on here to point out egg is egg and tokyos is chicken! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 None of the journalists know what's happening because their reasons for the dispute are all different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Sorry bear, this multiple login/username thing was bound to go wrong at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 None of the journalists know what's happening because their reasons for the dispute are all different. That in no way means that none of them know what is happening. How are they different anyway? It could be multiple reasons that are connected (eg the Liebherrs want more value for money so want to take some control away from Cortese.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Batman I thought your first name was Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 You're not wrong. It's a disgrace. You might complain but the Ramirez off topic thread is still going strong which goes to show how much more interesting it is/was to the actual Ramirez thread which has long since died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 You're going to have to put everyone on ignore and just chat with the OP. Cheers, done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Hang on... Am I on ignore? Please let it be true. You can be the sue whistles to my Turkish. Egg... You there? EGG? EGG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 That in no way means that none of them know what is happening. How are they different anyway? It could be multiple reasons that are connected (eg the Liebherrs want more value for money so want to take some control away from Cortese.) If true, it would cast doubt on several things claimed by the mboard intelligentsia: * The Liebherrs/Trust aren't ambitious and don't want to invest any more money. There is no contradiction in wanting value for money and spending big as long as it gets results. Smashing the transfer record to sign Messi would be justified if it meant we won the Champions League. Obviously we're not going to do that but it suggests investment isn't per se an issue. * The negative publicity that Cortese has attracted for his supposed off-the-field behaviour may not have helped his cause but it isn't at the forefront of the Liebherr/Trust's mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Hang on... Am I on ignore? Please let it be true. You can be the sue whistles to my Turkish. Egg... You there? EGG? EGG! It must be broken tokes, I can still see your tedious posts. I'll live with it if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 *Sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowds Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 In Cortese I trust... Enough said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 * The Liebherrs/Trust aren't ambitious and don't want to invest any more money. There is no contradiction in wanting value for money and spending big as long as it gets results. Smashing the transfer record to sign Messi would be justified if it meant we won the Champions League. Obviously we're not going to do that but it suggests investment isn't per se an issue. CORTESE: I want cash injections! Buy more players! £30m yo! LIEBHERRS: Oh ok, what do we get for that? CORTESE: Maybe we'll finish few places higher in league! LIEBHERRS: Nah ur alright. Think we'll leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 If true, it would cast doubt on several things claimed by the mboard intelligentsia: * The Liebherrs/Trust aren't ambitious and don't want to invest any more money. There is no contradiction in wanting value for money and spending big as long as it gets results. Smashing the transfer record to sign Messi would be justified if it meant we won the Champions League. Obviously we're not going to do that but it suggests investment isn't per se an issue. * The negative publicity that Cortese has attracted for his supposed off-the-field behaviour may not have helped his cause but it isn't at the forefront of the Liebherr/Trust's mind. I agree with your first point. I don't agree with the second though, they could quite easily want more value for money and also see the amount of control that Cortese has as a negative in a number of areas such as transfers but also the petty things he has done which has not been very good PR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 If true, it would cast doubt on several things claimed by the mboard intelligentsia: * The Liebherrs/Trust aren't ambitious and don't want to invest any more money. There is no contradiction in wanting value for money and spending big as long as it gets results. Smashing the transfer record to sign Messi would be justified if it meant we won the Champions League. Obviously we're not going to do that but it suggests investment isn't per se an issue. * The negative publicity that Cortese has attracted for his supposed off-the-field behaviour may not have helped his cause but it isn't at the forefront of the Liebherr/Trust's mind. Partly depends on how they define "value" in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Partly depends on how they define "value" in this instance. That's very true. It could mean a number of things including better PR for the amount of money they are spending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 That's very true. It could mean a number of things including better PR for the amount of money they are spending. Maybe they look at the legal fees line on the accounts for the last couple of years and don't see that as value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 If true, it would cast doubt on several things claimed by the mboard intelligentsia: * The Liebherrs/Trust aren't ambitious and don't want to invest any more money. There is no contradiction in wanting value for money and spending big as long as it gets results. Smashing the transfer record to sign Messi would be justified if it meant we won the Champions League. Obviously we're not going to do that but it suggests investment isn't per se an issue. If we signed Messi etc (or the equivalent levels of mental "investment" ) and won the Champions League, I seriously doubt we'd turn a profit that season. You do seem to be labouring under the assumption that the family place any value on football trophies. I am pretty certain the trust have looked at the TV money for next year and said to Nicola "why on god's earth do you need more money than that? Shut your whinging get on with it." Needless to say Nicola has not stopped his whinging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 I thought prem survival was worth a whole sh*toad of wonga?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Maybe they look at the legal fees line on the accounts for the last couple of years and don't see that as value. Very possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 (edited) If we signed Messi etc (or the equivalent levels of mental "investment" ) and won the Champions League, I seriously doubt we'd turn a profit that season. You do seem to be labouring under the assumption that the family place any value on football trophies. I am pretty certain the trust have looked at the TV money for next year and said to Nicola "why on god's earth do you need more money than that? Shut your whinging get on with it." Needless to say Nicola has not stopped his whinging. Would be very surprised if Cortese got his hands on all the TV money. True, the Liebherrs might not care less about trophies. Indeed, return may having nothing to do with on the field success but simply boosting the financial value of the club. The more modest point I'm trying to make is that if value-for-money is a determinant of investment, then it allows for more rather than less ambition. A value for money perspective, for instance, could have easily justified spending money after the 2003 FA Cup since Strachan had got blood from a stone. The club did not. Don't necessarily think that success on the field -winning in trophies in your words- and financial value of the club are two fundamentally different things. Of course, am not naive to think they are linked in any linear or short-term way (just ask the skates, risdale et al.) and perhaps this hazy relationship rules out some ambitions (CL football). But it would be equally naive to say that they aren't linked at a very basic level. Edited 16 May, 2013 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 Maybe they look at the legal fees line on the accounts for the last couple of years and don't see that as value. And perhaps they don't think Nik Nak drove a hard enough bargain with local companies and suppliers. Who the **** knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 16 May, 2013 Share Posted 16 May, 2013 And perhaps they don't think Nik Nak drove a hard enough bargain with local companies and suppliers. Who the **** knows. Considering what we know about them (and what some journalists have written) that seems very unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 17 May, 2013 Share Posted 17 May, 2013 My impression is that the owners of SFC very rarely show any interest in what Nigel Adkins would call 'games of football'. I recollect one appearance by a wealthy female who I presume was Marcus Leibherr's daughter but unlike the owners of some other clubs ours appear virtually invisible. I have seen it said that SFC is owned by a Trust on behalf of the 'Leibherr estate' but have never seen any indication of who the Trustees are or who are the beneficiaries of the estate. If, and I say if, the owners of the club, whether they are trustees or beneficiaries, have no personal interest in football, then SFC would be nothing more than a financial asset required to return maximum profit either as an operational business, or as an asset to sell. As a dedicated fan of SFC for half a century, I am very worried, very worried indeed. Even if Cortese wins this battle and has his project back on course, that would not alter the interest, or lack of, by the owners in the football team leaving a fear that all of this could surface again in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 17 May, 2013 Share Posted 17 May, 2013 (edited) Which is fair enough really. Millions spunked on Mayuka Ramirez and Forren for very little return thus far. Incredibly selective and myopic - the general return on investment that the the Liebherr Trust could make should they choose to sell is significant. http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/mauricio-pochettino-i-will-quit-southampton-if-nicola-cortese-leaves-8620017.html "It has though been a good investment" Edited 17 May, 2013 by Katalinic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 17 May, 2013 Share Posted 17 May, 2013 The more modest point I'm trying to make is that if value-for-money is a determinant of investment, then it allows for more rather than less ambition. A value for money perspective, for instance, could have easily justified spending money after the 2003 FA Cup since Strachan had got blood from a stone. The club did not. By "blood from a stone" I guess you mean spending what we had. Still not sure there was a "value for money" argument for spending XX million on players back then, or indeed now. Intangible football success? Maybe. The start of a "we just need two more quality additions" six-monthly money pit addiction? Certainly. Value for money? Really, nope. Personally I would be quite happy if we just spent what we made - the TV pot is huge now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 17 May, 2013 Share Posted 17 May, 2013 Incredibly selective and myopic - the general return on investment that the the Liebherr Trust could make should they choose to sell is significant. http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/mauricio-pochettino-i-will-quit-southampton-if-nicola-cortese-leaves-8620017.html "It has though been a good investment" Completely separate points, he's not saying it hasn't been a good investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 17 May, 2013 Share Posted 17 May, 2013 Completely separate points, he's not saying it hasn't been a good investment. No, but he is picking out a couple of players that I agree it is fair to say haven't been a resounding success ("value") but whilst completely ignoring the bigger picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 17 May, 2013 Share Posted 17 May, 2013 (edited) Guy who broke the story, Tony Evans on Brazil breakfast show now. Says NC sharp and ambitious. Said a couple of premier league owners have been singing his praises , said mahwhinny speaks very highly of saints. Said trust are re thinking their approach. Ended up by saying "Southampton face a very uncomfortable summer" Don't shoot the messenger, just repeating what he said. But he was guy who broke story Edited 17 May, 2013 by Lord Duckhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 17 May, 2013 Share Posted 17 May, 2013 Guy who broke the story, Tony Evans on Brazil breakfast show now. Says NC sharp and ambitious. Said a couple of premier league owners have been singing his praises , said mahwhinny speaks very highly of saints. Said trust are re thinking their approach. Ended up by saying "Southampton face a very uncomfortable summer" Don't shoot the messenger, just repeating what he said. But he was guy who broke story Evans is very good mates with one of corteses associates so will prob be biased towards him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 17 May, 2013 Share Posted 17 May, 2013 Incredibly selective and myopic - the general return on investment that the the Liebherr Trust could make should they choose to sell is significant. http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/mauricio-pochettino-i-will-quit-southampton-if-nicola-cortese-leaves-8620017.html "It has though been a good investment" I expect it has been a good investment but if you look at the last transfer window in isolation they haven't had a good return on what has been quite a significant outlay. Add that to the pr gaffes and the handling of the Adkins sacking and you can see why the liebherrs would thing that way of that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 17 May, 2013 Share Posted 17 May, 2013 Guy who broke the story, Tony Evans on Brazil breakfast show now. Says NC sharp and ambitious. Said a couple of premier league owners have been singing his praises , said mahwhinny speaks very highly of saints. Said trust are re thinking their approach. Ended up by saying "Southampton face a very uncomfortable summer" Don't shoot the messenger, just repeating what he said. But he was guy who broke story Cheers for the update LD. I don't suppose Evans alluded to what end game Cortese is aiming for? (i.e. either to engineer a buy out or to persuade the Liebherrs to stick to his plan?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modern matron Posted 17 May, 2013 Share Posted 17 May, 2013 I think that having these discussions in public do concern me greatly. NC or MP are employees of our club, so you would expect this type of business to be conducted behind closed doors. Previous to this, NC has virtually said nothing about anything recently, but seems happy to let very destabilising rumours to persist about his future. As for MP commenting in the way he has is frankly ridiculous and has been extremely inappropriate - usually NC wouldn't allow this if you believe what you read. MP has only been here 4 months so threatening to leave over this has made me question his appointment. I am disappointed because I have loved the style of play he has introduced, but SFC will always be bigger than individual employees in my view. The big shame of this is that all of this is playing out in public which cannot be impressing future player targets or investors so this needs to be drawn to a conclusion quickly - perhaps a statement from NC calming things down wouldn't go amiss......some chance! COYR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 17 May, 2013 Share Posted 17 May, 2013 That is the crux of the matter. SFC is much bigger than two employees and MP suggesting his sole reason for being her is NC is disrespectful and does not bode well for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett24 Posted 17 May, 2013 Share Posted 17 May, 2013 I am sure the trust understand the consequences if they let Cortese goes or he leaves an this being in the public domain has no impact, I am sure this story isn't receiving many column inches in the Swiss press or globally. It's a storm in a tea cup and will be sorted as they said by the end of the month. If Cortese stays we will have a cracking season I think if he goes could be a relegation battle as players like Shaw, Clyne, Morgan, etc may want to leave if the clubs ambitions have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 17 May, 2013 Share Posted 17 May, 2013 That is the crux of the matter. SFC is much bigger than two employees and MP suggesting his sole reason for being her is NC is disrespectful and does not bode well for the future. Your trolling is getting repetitive and boring now, Saints fan you may be, but of the type imho, we can do without. Like GM and a few others, you must find it hard to say anything positive about the club, and you fail to understand the damage, your negative input can do. Hypo, you are either a 'look at me' type of person, or someone who hates life, and the world in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild-saint Posted 17 May, 2013 Share Posted 17 May, 2013 That is the crux of the matter. SFC is much bigger than two employees and MP suggesting his sole reason for being her is NC is disrespectful and does not bode well for the future. oh please what utter shyte. if i was convinced by the ceo of company to join his plan for the future and then just 4 months later he threatened to walk out then i would also consider my future. the only difference being is i wouldnt be asked the question by the worlds press. this mess must have you salivating with your **** in your hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 17 May, 2013 Share Posted 17 May, 2013 Your trolling is getting repetitive and boring now, Saints fan you may be, but of the type imho, we can do without. Like GM and a few others, you must find it hard to say anything positive about the club, and you fail to understand the damage, your negative input can do. Hypo, you are either a 'look at me' type of person, or someone who hates life, and the world in general. What damage can a few comments on an Internet forum do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 17 May, 2013 Share Posted 17 May, 2013 I expect it has been a good investment but if you look at the last transfer window in isolation they haven't had a good return on what has been quite a significant outlay. Add that to the pr gaffes and the handling of the Adkins sacking and you can see why the liebherrs would thing that way of that is the case. If you look at the TV money in isolation it has been an amzing investment - which is why you shouldn't look at things in isolation. NC is not perfect but honestly I cannot see why any Saints fan would crave the instability that his departure would generate after what surely cannot be argued is the success of the past three years under his stewardship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 17 May, 2013 Share Posted 17 May, 2013 If you look at the TV money in isolation it has been an amzing investment - which is why you shouldn't look at things in isolation. NC is not perfect but honestly I cannot see why any Saints fan would crave the instability that his departure would generate after what surely cannot be argued is the success of the past three years under his stewardship. But if the liebherrs are basing their decision on the last window (when we spent the most by far) then they will be looking at it in isolation because our circumstances will be broadly similar to last year. If they can see the amount we spent last year and how much these players were utilised then previous seasons not in the top league is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 17 May, 2013 Share Posted 17 May, 2013 Something that seems missing from all the bits and bobs on here is that Nicola is also managing director or something of The Mali Group which was Markus's engineering company, a while ago there was something that popped up about that company struggling since the passion an drive that was Markus passed away. I am sure in the piece that was linked there were some pretty gloomy descisions looming on the horizon there. So it is not just Saints of Markus's concerns that NC is involved with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webby Posted 17 May, 2013 Share Posted 17 May, 2013 Terry Paine joins in: http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/10425977.Saints_legend_Paine__We_could_finish_top_four_next_season/?ref=twt&utm_content=Southampton,+Saints Basically, a 'back Cortese' piece. "Paine, who stated his view that it is important chairman Nicola Cortese remains at the club this summer" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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