hutch Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 It's not 33 million though is it. It was 33 million in July 2011. Resulting from the initial purchase and the first 2 years in League 1 since then we have made some handsome losses.In last years accounts (those to June 2012) the book value of the club was very nearly minus 50 million pounds including 2 million at the bank and 8 million in assets. When you do the maths the club has lost 60 million in 4 seasons. Since then we have no doubt received 65 million in revenues and blown it on salaries and transfer fees. Transfers of about 33 miilion and about the same in salaries. Factor in the operating costs and we'll make diddly squat again this season; especially with Nigel's pay off and Cortese"s bonus. It cost us 1.4 million to send AP and his team packing, NA will not cost less. For a rocket scientist you sure do a damned good Stan Ogden impression when it suits you. Read facts - Total debt at 30 June 2012 was £41.8m less £2.5m in cash =£39.4m That included Liebherr money and other debt, from BVI or wherever. £33m was subsequently converted to equity, leaving net debt at the start of this season of somewhere around £6m You know that transfer fees are amortised over the length of the contract. I'm no accountant but even I have a grasp of the difference between a P&L account and a Balance Sheet. From the latest available figures the Liebherrs have stumped up £33m. They might have put more in since the last published figures, but you don't know that and neither do I. But the fact remains that your figure of £70m is a number you just made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambsaint Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Personally speaking I hope that it's meant as a reminder to the Liebherrs to make their mind up quickly. I read somewhere they didn't grasp the urgency that Cortese feels. So hopefully it may be a negotiating ploy. Certainly if they want to sell then keeping Cortese is even more essential to them, who else could sell it better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggface Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Pinch of salt required at all times when football talk is concerned (even sometimes from the horses mouth). I heard a whisper that Cortese had the club on the market with Paris Smith and Randell at £63m, £60 for the family and £3m for him. He took it off the market at the time the Bvi loan was secured which looked odd but I wonder now if he will hook up with a 3rd party and buy the family out and take total control. Games? Is the bvi amount confirmed or unknown? The Don is smart and cunning, but I do believe he has the clubs best interests at heart (as long as he is very very well paid) Anyone heard similar? All allegedly and not stating fact fwiw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 I agree with that. And, if it was a deliberate leak, NC is playing a very dangerous game - unless he really does have new owners "up his sleeve", new owners who are not only ready to inject substantial funds but also to let him retain his power base. If he had new owners up his sleeve who were ready and able to buy the club then he'd have no need to leak the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 quite odd, Bucktootim says Cortese has done a 'poor job' but he has not voted? He is odd...very strange poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 If he had new owners up his sleeve who were ready and able to buy the club then he'd have no need to leak the story. Why not? Perhaps his preferred option is the Liebherrs with a substantial inflow of funds and with him in almost total control. If they're unwilling to provide both, he has a back up option. This could be, as many have suggested, his pressure tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 He is odd...very strange poster. You still stalking Glasgow with the aim of getting him banned, or given that up for another tearful rant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallagroth Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 I did. I learned that in two years Cortese has been catapaulted from evil **** who can do no right to fans deity who is the source of all light, and milk, and honey. Balance, let me introduce you to crowd hysteria. Dontcha just love it? are you sure this isn't a reputation exercise? It may not have worked on you but it certainly has on most others... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Pinch of salt required at all times when football talk is concerned (even sometimes from the horses mouth). I heard a whisper that Cortese had the club on the market with Paris Smith and Randell at £63m, £60 for the family and £3m for him. The Don is smart and cunning, but I do believe he has the clubs best interests at heart (as long as he is very very well paid) Anyone heard similar? All allegedly and not stating fact fwiw. Don't believe that to be honest. Paris Smith used to be SFC's solicitors probably until the buy out. They are a Southampton based firm. Had NC conducted this through solicitors it would be via a London Magic Circle firm, or one in Zurich or Geneva. No disrespect to Paris Smith, but these are the more likely markets NC would operate in, and less chance of a local leak ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 are you sure this isn't a reputation exercise? It may not have worked on you but it certainly has on most others... Very true, perhaps I have underestimated him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 I would suggest that NC has had his (annual ?) meeting with the Liebherr sisters, as trustees.Now the club has a higher profile they have suggested others get involved to get a more rational / balanced democratic process in utilising their father's estate trust funds and running the club. NC wants to retain his autocratic position, making all decisions, and has threatened them via the media. I would anticipate that, if necessary, the Liebherrs have other people up their sleeve to continue their fathers legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 You still stalking Glasgow with the aim of getting him banned, or given that up for another tearful rant? Not allowed to talk about Glasgow, same as he isn't allowed to talk about me, an agreement I came to with the mods. Working very nicely thanks. You are extremely odd though. Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 I would suggest that NC has had his (annual ?) meeting with the Liebherr sisters, as trustees.Now the club has a higher profile they have suggested others get involved to get a more rational / balanced democratic process in utilising their father's estate trust funds and running the club. NC wants to retain his autocratic position, making all decisions, and has threatened them via the media. I would anticipate that, if necessary, the Liebherrs have other people up their sleeve to continue their fathers legacy. Yes, I don't suppose he has all the aces up his sleeve that he perhaps thinks he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackanorySFC Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 For a rocket scientist you sure do a damned good Stan Ogden impression when it suits you. Read facts - Total debt at 30 June 2012 was £41.8m less £2.5m in cash =£39.4m That included Liebherr money and other debt, from BVI or wherever. £33m was subsequently converted to equity, leaving net debt at the start of this season of somewhere around £6m You know that transfer fees are amortised over the length of the contract. I'm no accountant but even I have a grasp of the difference between a P&L account and a Balance Sheet. From the latest available figures the Liebherrs have stumped up £33m. They might have put more in since the last published figures, but you don't know that and neither do I. But the fact remains that your figure of £70m is a number you just made up. This is spot on. Swiss Ramble is massively respected and I believe his figures rather than someone's random air plucking figures. For a total (up until the start of this season, one SR expected us to make a profit in) net spend of £33m Cortese has delivered an extremely valuable asset for the Liebherrs. Also, this started by WC stating we have lots of debt, this is (thankfully) very obviously not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 I would anticipate that, if necessary, the Liebherrs have other people up their sleeve to continue their fathers legacy. ...or to sell the club to. Really not convinced the family are in football for the long term. Certainly if it means spending any more money than the club can generate themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 So that's 18 pages of speculation then. Anybody learned anything? Yep apparently I am a left wing loon and can't wait to see the club in turmoil to suit my anti Cortese agenda. For the record - I haven't voted in an election for quite a few years (they are all a waste of space) and I want NC to stay and the club to be stable, however I am developing lunatic tendancies so Manji got one in four spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanthemanfairoak Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 now i have spent an hour reading this load of clat trap i think i will av a lay down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallagroth Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 So anyone else wondering why Sky hasn't yet reported on this story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 So anyone else wondering why Sky hasn't yet reported on this story? They are more bothered about Mancini, Platt, Pellegrini etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 So anyone else wondering why Sky hasn't yet reported on this story? Still squeezing the juice out of the Fergie saga, don't ever let them say they aren't in Manures pocket! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 I did. I learned that in two years Cortese has been catapaulted from evil **** who can do no right to fans deity who is the source of all light, and milk, and honey. Balance, let me introduce you to crowd hysteria. Dontcha just love it? You're talking about balance when you're the one claiming he's done an average to poor job based on a load of ****e which no one thinks about on a match day as we've all been too busy enjoying our rise back to prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 I did. I learned that in two years Cortese has been catapaulted from evil **** who can do no right to fans deity who is the source of all light, and milk, and honey. Balance, let me introduce you to crowd hysteria. Dontcha just love it? Might have something to do with the fact he has catapulted us into the prem, installed a decent management team, infrastructure and decent players, made sure if we are made to sell that it wont be cheap. He has made some PR gaffes, some misdemeanors, but in the whole most of the footballing fans on here can see the good he brings from his primary role. But then I suppose you obviously have some strange agenda to push, I mean jesus even Dunc who for his own reasons isnt Cortese's biggest fan realises that we are better with him then without. I would suggest those that want him out have an agenda or are connected to those that have an agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever a red and white Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 There are many things to consider: Maybe the family are unhappy with some things such as the Adkins sacking? Or maybe they think that for a £33 million investment in the squad (further backed by new training ground and share debt transfer) that we should be doing better than lower table? Cortese hasn't been perfect. But its also worth noting that when players have signed or put pen to paper on new contracts they often mention how impressed they are with Nicola and his ambitions for the club. It could be very important in helping attract new players, current targets or keeping players in the future. While I don't doubt that players look at other bigger factors, like league, playing time, manager etc it all contributes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 You're talking about balance when you're the one claiming he's done an average to poor job based on a load of ****e which no one thinks about on a match day as we've all been too busy enjoying our rise back to prem. Might have something to do with the fact he has catapulted us into the prem, installed a decent management team, infrastructure and decent players, made sure if we are made to sell that it wont be cheap. He has made some PR gaffes, some misdemeanors, but in the whole most of the footballing fans on here can see the good he brings from his primary role. But then I suppose you obviously have some strange agenda to push, I mean jesus even Dunc who for his own reasons isnt Cortese's biggest fan realises that we are better with him then without. I would suggest those that want him out have an agenda or are connected to those that have an agenda. How sweet that you are threatened by somebody expressing the view that Cortese has overall done no better or worse than another averagely good Chairman could do with the same resources. Proved my point very nicely, ta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 How sweet that you are threatened by somebody expressing the view that Cortese has overall done no better or worse than another averagely good Chairman could do with the same resources. Proved my point very nicely, ta. who are these average chairman you are comparing to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ART Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Maybe Terry Paine's appearance tonight at the Awards Dinner is for Cortesé to announce a huge takeover of the Liebherr share by South African Russian Gold Coast investors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 How sweet that you are threatened by somebody expressing the view that Cortese has overall done no better or worse than another averagely good Chairman could do with the same resources. Proved my point very nicely, ta. We went over the, another chairman arguement earlier, obviously (and wisely considering your position here) you ignored it. As far as being threatened ? No, I think you are confusing that with the fact we are rather surprised by your level of idiocy and that you seemingly put success on the pitch lower down the priority list than stoking the ego's of ex players and some nice lights in the hospitality suites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Maybe Terry Paine's appearance tonight at the Awards Dinner is for Cortesé to announce a huge takeover of the Liebherr share by South African Russian Gold Coast investors Or that they have just invited the clubs president to the end of season awards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 We went over the, another chairman arguement earlier, obviously (and wisely considering your position here) you ignored it. As far as being threatened ? No, I think you are confusing that with the fact we are rather surprised by your level of idiocy and that you seemingly put success on the pitch lower down the priority list than stoking the ego's of ex players and some nice lights in the hospitality suites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 (edited) So who are the "dirty 34?" 110_Persaint, Brother Smith, conaero, croydonsaint, Dan, dazzlesfc, FMPR, Guided Missile, Hagiology, hypochondriac, IFHP, Isla Wight, jjsaint, JRM, Kingsland Nick, La BoIS Saint, London Saint, mack rill, Massimo Osti, Merovingian, Mr X, patred44, Saint Billy, scorchio21, Sergei Gotsmanov, solentstars, St Lej, St.JonB, The9, Third Division South, Tomobz, Treesaint, Twentytwentvision, yorkie Edited 14 May, 2013 by Jonnyboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alehouseboys Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Cortese hasn't been perfect. But its also worth noting that when players have signed or put pen to paper on new contracts they often mention how impressed they are with Nicola and his ambitions for the club. It could be very important in helping attract new players, current targets or keeping players in the future. Indeed, he obviously sold the club to those that have come in with his ambitious vision of the future, trouble is if the Liebherrs don't quite share the same ambition and are a little more hesitant/reluctant to provide the funds so quickly then he could be made to look a bit of a fool. It would be interesting to know what they thought or knew about that DVD sent out with STs last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 So who are the "dirty 34?" Why is the poll private? I demand transparency. Its not private Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_kev Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 How sweet that you are threatened by somebody expressing the view that Cortese has overall done no better or worse than another averagely good Chairman could do with the same resources. Proved my point very nicely, ta. Such as the ones in charge of Leicster, Brighton, Peterborough, Reading, QPR.. Drive, ambition, belief and delivering success ? Where's that ignore button.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 who are these average chairman you are comparing to? ?????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webby Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Perhaps this is the storm in a teacup before the tempest of the new kit launch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 How many football club chairmen are on the sort of package NC is on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Cheers for that………… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Or that they have just invited the clubs president to the end of season awards? Just for one day, I want to have a go in the world that Art lives in. It must be f*cking brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 How many football club chairmen are on the sort of package NC is on? Worth every penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Worth every penny. That's not what I was asking though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 That's not what I was asking though. How many are independant of where the money comes from ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 How many are independant of where the money comes from ? Not sure if I'm honest. Possibly a better comparison is the role of Chief Executive which more clubs seem to use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Not sure if I'm honest. Possibly a better comparison is the role of Chief Executive which more clubs seem to use? In all honesty I dont know, nor do I actually know their respective wages but wouldnt imagine many are on a pittance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 I've not voted either. It's not an easy decision to make without all the facts and understanding of the current situation. I have no information whatsoever about the trust or who will select the next CEO. There is no track record to go on. If I could be sure the people making that decision are competent and that the next guy was likely to be competent then I wouldn't give two hoots if he was pushed out the door. The way he treated a certain season ticket holder for posting views on a web site was disgraceful. That is no way for a CEO of a football club to act. That said, I don't actively promote his demise on here because under his leadership things have gone well and I totally understand and appreciate the significant part he has played in our rise. Successful businessmen tend to be ****s and no one gets everything right. But just as he ousted Adkins because he thought he could find better, I'm happy for the Liebherrs to oust him too if they think they can do better. One things for sure this situation has brought to mind who exactly owns the club and who is the paid employee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 In all honesty I dont know, nor do I actually know their respective wages but wouldnt imagine many are on a pittance Doubt most are on a package close to £2m a year though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Doubt most are on a package close to £2m a year though. why do you doubt that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 (edited) The way he treated a certain season ticket holder for posting views on a web site was disgraceful. That is no way for a CEO of a football club to act. The one thing that has always stood out for me and why I'll always struggle to view NC in the same light many other fans do. Edited 14 May, 2013 by Sour Mash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Doubt most are on a package close to £2m a year though. Gill ? The bloke at City ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 How many football club chairmen are on the sort of package NC is on? Hew Jenkins' wage at Swansea is £200,000 a year (althought he recived an extra £250,000 as part of the £2m pay out sareholders received because Swansea made £16m profit) which is just a fraction less than the £1.5m Cortese earned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 why do you doubt that? Because I think the average annual pay for a Chief Execs in this country is a bit over £200k, taking into consideration the people employed in these roles in most PL clubs I can't see them being on a massive amount more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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