CityRanger Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Do we still need investment from the family? There's a lot of Sky money next year, but is this not enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Do we still need investment from the family? There's a lot of Sky money next year, but is this not enough? Enough for what? Considering all other Prem clubs will get the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVER THE HILL Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Looking through the list of those that have said No, I see a few Skates ., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Do we still need investment from the family? There's a lot of Sky money next year, but is this not enough? perhaps they actually want to take money out and there won't be enough to finance our ambitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 As I've said before I think this is just the family wanting to replace cortese, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Fair dos. I just thought the screen shot of all the people listed had more visual impact, but hey ho, no harm intended. I was sure that was the case anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 I may have missed something but there seem to be two different stories; BBC & The Times NC wants to continue to run the club in the way he has, whilst the family / trust want other people to join him and change the structure of how the club is run. Independent / Echo and Associated Press NC wants the Trust / Family to match his ambitions and invest accordingly, so more of a financial issue as to how much they are prepared to invest. If the latter is the real issue, I do empathise with the family to some degree; if they arent that into football, maybe it just looks like SFC was Markus's rich-boy's toy. But that toy has been draining your inheritance and will continue to drain it at an alarmingly increasing rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 As I've said before I think this is just the family wanting to replace cortese, nothing more. The threads more about whether this would be a good thing or not and what the motivations behind it would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 That is the absolute best emoticon I have ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 As I've said before I think this is just the family wanting to replace cortese, nothing more.What do you base that assertion on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 I may have missed something but there seem to be two different stories; BBC & The Times NC wants to continue to run the club in the way he has, whilst the family / trust want other people to join him and change the structure of how the club is run. Independent / Echo and Associated Press NC wants the Trust / Family to match his ambitions and invest accordingly, so more of a financial issue as to how much they are prepared to invest. Forgive me for quoting myself but I still feel - even more so today - that what I said yesterday is at the heart of this: The two key words in this, IMO, may well be "trust" and "control". Trustees have a legal/fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of the trust. They have absolutely no choice in this. The best interests of Southampton FC and its fans do not override that. The trustees are not acting in the best interests of the trust if they sit quietly by while (what they could reasonably perceive as) financially dubious decisions are made. Similarly, they are not acting in the best interests of the trust if they allow one (management type of) individual to have an inordinately large say in how things are run. The only way around these things is for the trust documents to specify that a certain amount of funding is freely available and that one individual (NC) will have total say in how it's applied. It wouldn't surprise me if the problem revolves around the fetters that will be placed on Cortese if the trustees actually start doing their job, which they might feel they haven't been in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Short lived poll then; those with a job might not even get to vote, how shonky is that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Forgive me for quoting myself but I still feel - even more so today - that what I said yesterday is at the heart of this "Trustees have a legal/fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of the trust".: Forgive me canada but that's rubbish, trustees have a fiduciary duty to the beneficiary/ies which is in this case the football club. The trust is incidental and merely a vehicle to safeguard these assets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damers Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Could this be about the new TV deal that is bringing the untold riches next year, I am sure this would not have been in the original 5 year plan/budget? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 (edited) Could this be about the new TV deal that is bringing the untold riches next year, I am sure this would not have been in the original 5 year plan/budget? doubt it; it's probably just about loss making season after loss making season. We've run out of ackers and someone somewhere doesn't want to give us any more. We were about 48 million down; won't have improved much on that so to fuel our ambitions we probably need some readys once again. We might break even next season or even get ahead a little but someone needs to underwrite the cash for the transfers we want to make this summer. The PL doesn't pay in advance. Edited 14 May, 2013 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Why has Cortese gone to the press? I assume it was him that leaked the story. But what does he hope to achieve by doing so? The only answer I can come up with is that he has already been told that he won't have his contract renewed, so he has gone to the press to portray himself in the best light to help attract a new employer. Anyone got a better conclusion? Someone please explain .....How come his Contract has to be renewed ??? I thought the Leibherr Family were HONOURING Markus Leibherr's FIVE YEAR PLAN, of which Cortese is the CEO Are the Leibherr Family renaging on their own Father's Wishes ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Forgive me canada but that's rubbish, trustees have a fiduciary duty to the beneficiary/ies which is in this case the football club. The trust is incidental and merely a vehicle to safeguard these assets. The underlined part is the whole point, so you're really arguing against yourself here. The role of trustees is one of the highest roles in the legal system. Do we know for certain that the Club is part of a standalone trust or part of a broader trust encompassing all (or most) of Marcus's assets? I can't remember the history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ART Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Another Christina Liebherr article were she states her motto is "My friend is called no mercy" Hmmmm!!! https://infocus.credit-suisse.com/article/index.cfm?fuseaction=OpenArticle&aoid=123285&lang=en Elsewhere, in March 2013 the Liebherr family renewed sponsorship with the International Table Tennis Federation, which will see the partnership reach a decade and beyond. Doesn't seem they are for pulling the plug with their interedts in sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sussexsaint Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Presumably his favourite position was 'spoon' but now that has been nicked he has to consider alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityRanger Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Enough for what? Considering all other Prem clubs will get the same... Enough to compete on an even footing. As we are debt free which not all clubs can claim is this not enough? It then comes down to coaching, current squad strength and youngsters coming through on how well we do. I think we're in a good position on those points. I'm just questioning the idea that the Liebherrs have to get out now or we become a bottomless money pit. Aren't we ready to be self financing and is will not the new ffp rules apply anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Enough to compete on an even footing. As we are debt free which not all clubs can claim is this not enough? It then comes down to coaching, current squad strength and youngsters coming through on how well we do. I think we're in a good position on those points. I'm just questioning the idea that the Liebherrs have to get out now or we become a bottomless money pit. Aren't we ready to be self financing and is will not the new ffp rules apply anyway? We aren't debt free. I expect we have quite a lot of debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brussels Saint Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Did I miss it, or has there been virtually zero reported in the press today about this? No tweets from journo's etc. If so, perhaps the club (NC/Liebherr) via it's lawyers have killed it on grounds of it being libelous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Another Christina Liebherr article were she states her motto is "My friend is called no mercy" Hmmmm!!! https://infocus.credit-suisse.com/article/index.cfm?fuseaction=OpenArticle&aoid=123285&lang=en Elsewhere, in March 2013 the Liebherr family renewed sponsorship with the International Table Tennis Federation, which will see the partnership reach a decade and beyond. Doesn't seem they are for pulling the plug with their interedts in sport. Not the same branch of the family; this causes much confusion. Our branch does not make cranes or fork lifts or freezers.They have nothing whatsoever to do with SFC. That branch of the family is extremely wealthy but none of it comes our way. Not even a couple of euros in shirt sponsorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackanorySFC Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 We aren't debt free. I expect we have quite a lot of debt. According to this year's accounts all the Liebherr debt had been turned into equity and the only outstanding debt was the BVI loan for £3.2m I thought? Not many clubs that can say they don't have to service a debt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Did I miss it, or has there been virtually zero reported in the press today about this? No tweets from journo's etc. If so, perhaps the club (NC/Liebherr) via it's lawyers have killed it on grounds of it being libelous? Discussing it on Hawksbee and Jackobs now. Simon Peach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 (edited) According to this year's accounts all the Liebherr debt had been turned into equity and the only outstanding debt was the BVI loan for £3.2m I thought? Not many clubs that can say they don't have to service a debt? look again Southampton Football Club Limited is an Active business incorporated in England & Wales on 12th July 1897. Their business activity is recorded as Operation Of Sports Facilities. Southampton Football Club Limited is run by 4 current members. and 1 company secretary. 1 shareholders own the total shares within the company. It is also part of a group. The latest Annual Accounts submitted to Companies House for the year up to 30/06/2012 reported 'cash at bank' of £2,099,963, 'liabilities' worth £24,642,282, 'net worth' of £-49,794,007 and 'assets' worth £8,463,431. Southampton Football Club Limited's risk score was amended on 08/04/2013. this is before we spent money on Gaston; Maya;Mayuka etc.. We as likely as not have a shedload of debt Edited 14 May, 2013 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Did I miss it, or has there been virtually zero reported in the press today about this? No tweets from journo's etc. If so, perhaps the club (NC/Liebherr) via it's lawyers have killed it on grounds of it being libelous? It has had a few small reports, but it's not a big story for the rest of the footballing world and there are plenty of bigger ones out there at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 93% eh ?.....I wonder if that's the same 93% who wanted him out after he sacked Adkins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Peach on Talk sport; Cortese wants backing for his ambitions. Libherr's don't understand football and don't understand his ambitions. Peach reckons he is capable of delivering. Need high profile signings to deliver Cortese's plans Have been suggestions that the family may sell, but he'd be surprised. Devolopments (possible) today and things maybe ironed out and Nicola may stay, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Someone please explain .....How come his Contract has to be renewed ??? I thought the Leibherr Family were HONOURING Markus Leibherr's FIVE YEAR PLAN, of which Cortese is the CEO Are the Leibherr Family renaging on their own Father's Wishes ??? According to the article in The Times IIRC there is a break clause at four years at which either party can walk away from the deal with no penalties or recriminations. My take on all this is that somebody is speculating over the fact that his contract has not been renewed but this is hardly surprising considering that our Premier League status next season was only assured two days ago and I would have thought that there would be a considerable difference between planning for the Championship and for the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Its a very sobering reminder of what has happened in football with Clubs having become the private property of wealthy individuals. For Southampton fans, the purchase of the football club by Leibherr has resulted in a remarkable return to the Premier League but owners can go as easily as they come and ours went by a very permanent route. As it is, apart from seeing Cortese, who is not the owner, in the Chairman's job, we have no idea who owns our club or what their motives are. Of course fans don't want change while things look good for the future of the team because change means uncertainty but as fans we have no choice but to allow the boardroom games to be played out. The only two things you can be certain of is that this is about power and money. It looks like it would be in the fans' interests if Cortese wins his battle for power, but if he does, how long until the next time?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 I would like Cortese to stay, for now. But I would also not be overly concerned if he left. No one is expendable in football. No one man makes the team. But, like replacing a manager, you should only remove a chairman if you have someone better lined up to take over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 look again Southampton Football Club Limited is an Active business incorporated in England & Wales on 12th July 1897. Their business activity is recorded as Operation Of Sports Facilities. Southampton Football Club Limited is run by 4 current members. and 1 company secretary. 1 shareholders own the total shares within the company. It is also part of a group. The latest Annual Accounts submitted to Companies House for the year up to 30/06/2012 reported 'cash at bank' of £2,099,963, 'liabilities' worth £24,642,282, 'net worth' of £-49,794,007 and 'assets' worth £8,463,431. Southampton Football Club Limited's risk score was amended on 08/04/2013. this is before we spent money on Gaston; Maya;Mayuka etc.. We as likely as not have a shedload of debt You would need to look at the bigger picture. The new players would also have a value as assets and there is a load of guaranteed income in the form of television money and at the least, parachute payments. To talk about debt in isolation is rather pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 look again Southampton Football Club Limited is an Active business incorporated in England & Wales on 12th July 1897. Their business activity is recorded as Operation Of Sports Facilities. Southampton Football Club Limited is run by 4 current members. and 1 company secretary. 1 shareholders own the total shares within the company. It is also part of a group. The latest Annual Accounts submitted to Companies House for the year up to 30/06/2012 reported 'cash at bank' of £2,099,963, 'liabilities' worth £24,642,282, 'net worth' of £-49,794,007 and 'assets' worth £8,463,431. Southampton Football Club Limited's risk score was amended on 08/04/2013. this is before we spent money on Gaston; Maya;Mayuka etc.. We as likely as not have a shedload of debt The debt was exchanged for equity in July - Your accounts are up to June. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Its days like today, that I wish the likes of lifelongsaint/ david extance/ Dr Who and one other notable poster (I have forgot their name but they appeared reliable) who were able to give us the real truth on what is happening at the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 I would like Cortese to stay, for now. But I would also not be overly concerned if he left. No one is expendable in football. No one man makes the team. But, like replacing a manager, you should only remove a chairman if you have someone better lined up to take over. The business side of the game is so different to the footballing side, most managers are ex players and so have a very good knowledge of the game but chairmen who understand the footballing side are much much rarer. Cortese has taken to football like a duck to water for the most part, finding a good CEO to head up the business side would not be hard, but one who can balance footballing and business concerns like Cortese I'm much more doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ART Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Not the same branch of the family; this causes much confusion. Our branch does not make cranes or fork lifts or freezers.They have nothing whatsoever to do with SFC. That branch of the family is extremely wealthy but none of it comes our way. Not even a couple of euros in shirt sponsorship. I am aware of this but Markus handed 90% of what he inherited back into that branch and retained sufficient funds for his own interests. There are other Liebherr family with interests in football and it wouldn't be unreasonable for those involved in SFC to have recruited the help or involvement of other family members in preference to Cortesé running the show 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 The debt was exchanged for equity in July - Your accounts are up to June. what again ? wasn't that in 2011 ? 33 million debt for 33 million equity; how much are they in for now then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guided Missile Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Since the purchase of the club by the Liebherr's, Cortese has run the club as his personal fiefdom. His attitude towards many of those involved with the club and others outside, with which he disagrees, has all the hallmarks you would expect from a short Italian given too much power. The main problem, is that most chairman with his attitude, actually have the money to ruffle the feathers that give him the added stature he craves. The club has been successful on the pitch due in large part to the managers, players and playing staff. The business has been financially successful due to the strict control over costs and the massive increase in non-matchday income from Sky, due to the success on the pitch. The owners will be making a big mistake to cave in to an employee who increasingly confuses the role of a Chairman with that of a Dictator. I think they only have two choices: Sell the club to new owners who will understand that with investment, there are many financially trained Chairman who can do Cortese's job, without the ongoing damage to the club's reputation. Get rid of Cortese and back a new Chairman, with the investment the club requires to meet any ambitions they have. The poll above provides pretty much the same result as when Adkins was fired. It only serves, as does the Pompey Takeover Thread, how detached from reality you become, when you spend too much time on internet forums. Whoever they get in, I will still turn up, like most other fans. My loyalty is to the team. I am just dreaming of Wenger taking over as Chairman and the Liebherr's financing a new stadium.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Its a very sobering reminder of what has happened in football with Clubs having become the private property of wealthy individuals. For Southampton fans, the purchase of the football club by Leibherr has resulted in a remarkable return to the Premier League but owners can go as easily as they come and ours went by a very permanent route. As it is, apart from seeing Cortese, who is not the owner, in the Chairman's job, we have no idea who owns our club or what their motives are. Of course fans don't want change while things look good for the future of the team because change means uncertainty but as fans we have no choice but to allow the boardroom games to be played out. The only two things you can be certain of is that this is about power and money. It looks like it would be in the fans' interests if Cortese wins his battle for power, but if he does, how long until the next time?. To be fair, Marcus made his motivations perfectly clear when he rescued the club... It was a hobby and something that would give him a great deal of pleasure to see what he and Nicola could make of it. Anyone who saw him at Wembley will have seen he quickly came to love what being an owner can do; it is one of the saddest things that he is no longer around to see us progress as we have. Nicola, I believe is motivated by the challenge and what that means for him and his reputation, but it would be disingenuous in the extreme to deny that he is not also motivated by fullfilling the ambitions of his dear friend, and sometimes folk on here forget that. As for Markus' family, it would be wrong to second guess their interest or motivation. But again a lot will come down to the memory of their family member and wanting to honour his wishes and dreams. ' Power and money?' Well in part maybe... I speculate that as we have now secured prem status, Cortese has shared the plan and that ambitious plan requires serious funding. As such the family need to approve and feel comfortable that this is an appropriate way to go. Therefore it's possible that this is all a storm in a teacup when reality is that we have now come to a new phase that requires new money.... So why is anyone surprised that this will mean discussion and negotiation, or do clever and smart people simply hand over blank cheques? - certainly not how wealth is protected. I hope that is the case, but who knows, we shall see, but all this additional speculation on 'failings out' or Liebherrs not being happy with NC etc is probably about as inaccurate as it is helpful. It may see a parting of the ways if no agreement can be reached, always possible, but to dismiss Corteses's influence and impact on our 4 year progress is as naive as it is disingenuous. Without leadership and direction of a high calibre, money alone is not enough and whilst there are undoubtedly very good CEOs out there, don't under estimate the impact of Markus ad NCs friendship in driving the commitment to success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericofarabia Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 I would like Cortese to stay, for now. But I would also not be overly concerned if he left. No one is expendable in football. No one man makes the team. But, like replacing a manager, you should only remove a chairman if you have someone better lined up to take over. THIS I shudder to think what sort of shytehawks may be lurking in the background, who would like to have a piece of EPL TV rights action to feather their nests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 what again ? wasn't that in 2011 ? 33 million debt for 33 million equity; how much are they in for now then? No it was last summer and the only time they have done so. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/southampton/9513001/Southampton-obliterate-their-transfer-record-to-secure-the-12-million-arrival-of-Gaston-Ramirez-from-Bologna.html The debt totaled their investment to that date. We then went on to take a 3.2 million loan and of course we don't know if the family provided anymore money, but the fact we took an external loan, suggests may be not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 THIS I shudder to think what sort of shytehawks may be lurking in the background, who would like to have a piece of EPL TV rights action to feather their nests. Shebby Singh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericofarabia Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Whoever they get in, I will still turn up, like most other fans. My loyalty is to the team. I am just dreaming of Wenger taking over as Chairman and the Liebherr's financing a new stadium.... Would never work - it'd be nonstop arguments between Poch and Arse about how steaks should be cooked ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 The poll above provides pretty much the same result as when Adkins was fired. It only serves, as does the Pompey Takeover Thread, how detached from reality you become, when you spend too much time on internet forums. Whoever they get in, I will still turn up, like most other fans. My loyalty is to the team. I am just dreaming of Wenger taking over as Chairman and the Liebherr's financing a new stadium.... Exhibit A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guided Missile Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Exhibit A... Couldn't find a "tongue in cheek" emoticon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 No it was last summer and the only time they have done so. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/southampton/9513001/Southampton-obliterate-their-transfer-record-to-secure-the-12-million-arrival-of-Gaston-Ramirez-from-Bologna.html The debt totaled their investment to that date. We then went on to take a 3.2 million loan and of course we don't know if the family provided anymore money, but the fact we took an external loan, suggests may be not. don't think you're quite right. Debt was converted into equity in June or July 2011 and showed up in the 2011 accounts published in March 2012. Since then we've been bagging more losses and have considerable debt..as shown in the accounts to June 2012; some 24 million in liabilities. No doubt we've paid most of that with this year's revenue but Gastn etc still aren't accounted for in those figures. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/9618653.Saints_reveal_latest_financial_figures/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Benali Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Wonder why Turkish, Kraken, CB Fry etc have not voted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Wonder why Turkish, Kraken, CB Fry etc have not voted? should be like the Australian voting system; if you don't vote you get fined if they still do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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