Sour Mash Posted 12 May, 2013 Share Posted 12 May, 2013 Anyone else think Pochettino doesn't rate Cork as highly as some of us do? Few times taking him off at key moments? Rumours of other CMs coming in. The lack of goals from Cork. We'll see in the summer, but I've just got a feeling based on all of the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 Anyone else think Pochettino doesn't rate Cork as highly as some of us do? Few times taking him off at key moments? Rumours of other CMs coming in. The lack of goals from Cork. We'll see in the summer, but I've just got a feeling based on all of the above. He was taken off today when we needed to chase the game and it worked. If we fall behind, sacrificing a DM with 20 minutes to go seems tactically wise to me and not a swipe at Cork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 No i think he rates him fine, fact is, when we need a goal, Cork is an acceptable player to sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 Can see where you're coming from but I'd say Cork is an unsung hero more generally. The press rarely spotlight his performances or ask MP about him - anyhow MP seldom praises players in interviews (apart from a short Jrod phase), so it's difficult to divine what he's really thinking. Cork was taken off today, like WBA, because we were chasing the game and he's become much more of a DM under MP than NA who had given Morgan license to get forward. If we bring in another CM, I think it says more about the importance of the midfield to MP's system, an area which is expected to attack and defend. It's probably the most physically demanding position in the team, so the more cover, the better. We're currently playing 3 CMs and JWP is our only option to rotate. If anything, the transfer rumours say more about JWP's readiness than any lack of faith in Cork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 Another player going backwards under pinocchio imho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild-saint Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 Another player going backwards under pinocchio imho in your opinion has anyone gone forward under MP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 in your opinion has anyone gone forward under MP? Boruc, Spider and J Rod imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbob40 Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 What a lot of tosh. He has started every game for MP and is one of the main reasons we are staying up. We need a left sided CB who doesn't hoof the ball 60 yards with a triangular foot every time he gets it and serious competition for Adam and Rickie who have dropped off significantly in the last month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 Good player but no goals is awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 Fine to take him off when we need a goal, he's a great player but has 0 goals and 0 assists this season remember, not like his partner Morgan with 5 and 1. JWP more of a game-changer, as we saw! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 Good player but no goals is awful. Thats enough about Guly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocco boxo Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 Cork will score against Stoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeShmoe Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 I'm not overly sold on Cork, good player but i think a player with better passing and a goal threat might improve us (Biglia?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 Fine to take him off when we need a goal, he's a great player but has 0 goals and 0 assists this season remember, not like his partner Morgan with 5 and 1. JWP more of a game-changer, as we saw! Didn't he set up Lambert's goal away at Wigan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpweySaint Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 Cork can really do a job but, tactially, it'd be nice to have other options in the cm position. Can see the point but i'd suggest cork's dip in form has run alongside a general slight downturn in our form with the sequence of draws and defeats. Has been a cracking player this year hopefully, next year, without having such a big injury at the start of the season he'l kick on in top form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 Cork is a tremendous player and together with Morgan....one of the best pairings in the league. No problem with the way the coach has utilised his side or his subs.. More to come from Cork and the mighty Saints next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanh Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 Given that he's started just about every game he's been available for under MP I don't think there is a fundamental issue there. We do need to bring in more variety in centre mid so that we can rotate players, play in different ways against different opposition and have an option off the bench. As an example of what we should be working towards (not necessarily next season) look at Spurs, they have Dembele, Sigurdsson, Parker, Huddlestone, Holtby, Livermore and Sandro competing for CM in their squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 Cork is a tremendous player and together with Morgan....one of the best pairings in the league. No problem with the way the coach has utilised his side or his subs.. More to come from Cork and the mighty Saints next season. This, absolutely. Fantastic player who contributes immensely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 Anyone else think Pochettino doesn't rate Cork as highly as some of us do? Few times taking him off at key moments? Rumours of other CMs coming in. The lack of goals from Cork. We'll see in the summer, but I've just got a feeling based on all of the above. I think you are making up things to worry about now we are safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 JWP seemed much more direct than the option one crab like move Cork seems to default to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 JWP seemed much more direct than the option one crab like move Cork seems to default to. WTF... one contribution and now JWP's better than Cork? Jesus H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 Cork has been absolutely outstanding this season, and wouldn't be far off my list for Player of the season. He is technically astute, reads the game very well, is quick off the ground and has a great range of passing. He's on a bit of a dry spell now, but that has to be expected as he's been exceptional for the majority of the season. He's a mainstay in the team next year for me, wouldn't change him and Morgan for anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 I'm in the official Jack Cork Man Love Club; but I think his performances have tailed off a little in the last few games. Him returning to the side in November was the catalyst to turn our fortunes around and with Morgan he has been consistently superb since coming in. But in the past 2 or 3 games I've felt he's fallen a little short of his high standards. And as has been said, if we're chasing a game and need a change he's a logical choice. But he's still a class act, and I think we'd have to spend an awful lot to get in someone who can do a better job next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 WTF... one contribution and now JWP's better than Cork? Jesus H. Didnt say that at all, Cork has been great this season at Swansea you could have sworn there was 2 of him on the pitch. However there are times though when he drives forwards then seems to have doubts and selects the frustrating reverse option. MP obviously thought Cork was the right option to change, and that JWP was a more direct option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 Didnt say that at all, Cork has been great this season at Swansea you could have sworn there was 2 of him on the pitch. However there are times though when he drives forwards then seems to have doubts and selects the frustrating reverse option. MP obviously thought Cork was the right option to change, and that JWP was a more direct option. I stand corrected, I probably jumped the gun a little to be fair. I take your point about him having doubts, I've seen that too, but I think, possibly with a little more confidence he can be a bit more positive. He'll never do regular Yaya Toure runs I don't think but I do believe he's one of the best in his position in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 13 May, 2013 Share Posted 13 May, 2013 anyone who has any doubts about Cork just needs to rewatch MOTD from Sunday and see him crawling on the floor and then quite literally throwing his head at the ball to prevent Johnson crossing it in. Unbelievable will to win. His return to the side (with Shaw) changed our season. Without them we'd be relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbob40 Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Our first 10 games this year without Cork (and Shaw to be fair) yielded just 4 points (+29 goals against), or 15 points extrapolated over the season, i.e relegated in bottom place. Since then we have gained 36 points over the next 27 games (+30 goals against), i.e 50 points-extrapolated over the season-8th position. Let the numbers tell the story, Cork's industry, discipline and tactical awareness have made a huge difference to our season. No offence to some of the posters above-but only a buffoon would say otherwise.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 We're questioning Cork now? Jees. The guy has been instrumental in our improved defensive play and us staying in the league but he's getting criticised for not scoring? Makele barely ever scored but was vital to both Real Madrid and Chelsea. Cork does the same role for us, people should have noticed that he is the sitting one and does not have the same licence to get forward that Morgan does so it's not really surprising he doesn't get many goals. He can tackle, pass, run all day and read the game. He's got decent strength and pace as well. Cork and Morgan set the platform to allow the likes of Jay Rod, Gaston, Lallana, Puncheon as well Shaw and Clyne the freedom to get forward and score the goals without worrying about strict defensive duties. When we have decent possession Morgan then goes forward as an extra option because he has the pace and running power, but also because there is always that security of Cork. JWP is just a better attacking option, he's more suited to play in front of Cork/Morgan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 when I saw the thread title I expected some unsavoury tabloid story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 14 May, 2013 Author Share Posted 14 May, 2013 We're questioning Cork now? Jees. The guy has been instrumental in our improved defensive play and us staying in the league but he's getting criticised for not scoring? Makele barely ever scored but was vital to both Real Madrid and Chelsea. Cork does the same role for us, people should have noticed that he is the sitting one and does not have the same licence to get forward that Morgan does so it's not really surprising he doesn't get many goals. He can tackle, pass, run all day and read the game. He's got decent strength and pace as well. Cork and Morgan set the platform to allow the likes of Jay Rod, Gaston, Lallana, Puncheon as well Shaw and Clyne the freedom to get forward and score the goals without worrying about strict defensive duties. When we have decent possession Morgan then goes forward as an extra option because he has the pace and running power, but also because there is always that security of Cork. JWP is just a better attacking option, he's more suited to play in front of Cork/Morgan. If you're referring to my OP, then the point wasn't to have a digat Cork, I think he's been excellent for us. Just the fact he was taken off at half-time against West Brom, taken off again on Sunday and we've been linked with a few Central Midfielders, just thought it was worth asking the question whether MP rated him as highly as most of us do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 If you're referring to my OP, then the point wasn't to have a digat Cork, I think he's been excellent for us. Just the fact he was taken off at half-time against West Brom, taken off again on Sunday and we've been linked with a few Central Midfielders, just thought it was worth asking the question whether MP rated him as highly as most of us do. Not directly at your OP but more at some of the responses. He's played every game under Pochettino but he's clearly not that useful when chasing a game which probably explains his substitutions. I would reckon we've been linked with some central midfielders because we need options for injuries. We were woeful without Cork at the start of the season and we've been lucky since that neither Cork or Morgan have been injured. Neither Davis or JWP are suited to those defensive type roles and to be honest even though he;s probably not good enough I do wonder whether it was worth keeping Hammond around as back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 14 May, 2013 Author Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Not directly at your OP but more at some of the responses. He's played every game under Pochettino but he's clearly not that useful when chasing a game which probably explains his substitutions. I would reckon we've been linked with some central midfielders because we need options for injuries. We were woeful without Cork at the start of the season and we've been lucky since that neither Cork or Morgan have been injured. Neither Davis or JWP are suited to those defensive type roles and to be honest even though he;s probably not good enough I do wonder whether it was worth keeping Hammond around as back up. Cork has started every game because there are no realistic other options. The sort of midfielders we've been linked with won't be sat on the bench covering for possible injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Cork has started every game because there are no realistic other options. The sort of midfielders we've been linked with won't be sat on the bench covering for possible injuries. Neville said something interesting the other night, that the best teams have midfielders who are truly box to box and can attack and defend in equal measure. In his view, one of the main problems with English teams -hence their poorer performance in European competitions- is that in recent years the number of class, all-round midfielders has dropped and roles have become too specialised, that is, you're either a DM or AM. Perhaps, MP is looking for similar versatility - if so, you can make an argument for why Cork might not be rated so highly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 14 May, 2013 Author Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Neville said something interesting the other night, that the best teams have midfielders who are truly box to box and can attack and defend in equal measure. In his view, one of the main problems with English teams -hence their poorer performance in European competitions- is that in recent years the number of class, all-round midfielders has dropped and roles have become too specialised, that is, you're either a DM or AM. Perhaps, MP is looking for similar versatility - if so, you can make an argument for why Cork might not be rated so highly. Yes, I saw Neville saying that the other night and was one of the things in the back of my mind when starting this thread. It's just speculation, so who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeShmoe Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Neville said something interesting the other night, that the best teams have midfielders who are truly box to box and can attack and defend in equal measure. In his view, one of the main problems with English teams -hence their poorer performance in European competitions- is that in recent years the number of class, all-round midfielders has dropped and roles have become too specialised, that is, you're either a DM or AM. Perhaps, MP is looking for similar versatility - if so, you can make an argument for why Cork might not be rated so highly. Indeed, some of the football we've played this season and the chances we've created its not unrealistic to think a real box to box midfielder could have scored 10+ goals, even Morgan has 4 or 5. I like Cork as a DM but his going forward element isn't nearly as good, however you dont know to be fair if he's instructed to play that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Indeed, some of the football we've played this season and the chances we've created its not unrealistic to think a real box to box midfielder could have scored 10+ goals, even Morgan has 4 or 5. I like Cork as a DM but his going forward element isn't nearly as good, however you dont know to be fair if he's instructed to play that way Yep just guessing - as you say, he could very well be instructed to play that way and MP has a preference for specialised DMs. Or perhaps MP has partly adapted Cork's role to take account of his limitations. Who knows. But what Neville was saying is that you can have your cake and eat and have all round midfielders without losing any defensive shape. With Lambert dropping deep , it would be nice to have a bit more drive and powerful running from the middle of the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 Given that he's started just about every game he's been available for under MP I don't think there is a fundamental issue there. We do need to bring in more variety in centre mid so that we can rotate players, play in different ways against different opposition and have an option off the bench. As an example of what we should be working towards (not necessarily next season) look at Spurs, they have Dembele, Sigurdsson, Parker, Huddlestone, Holtby, Livermore and Sandro competing for CM in their squad. And they still only beat us as a result of something a bit special from one of our ex-academy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 I absolutely love Corky, I think he's had a fantastic season surprised how many people arent raving about him. If he hadnt got fit when he did, I think we would have been relegated. Yes he could do with a goal, but I'd prefer he did his job than get out of position looking for goals....how many goals does Scott Parker score? He's the same sort of player and integral to how we play. Was my MOM vs Spurs, don't think his form has dropped at all tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 duplicate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 I absolutely love Corky, I think he's had a fantastic season surprised how many people arent raving about him. If he hadnt got fit when he did, I think we would have been relegated. Yes he could do with a goal, but I'd prefer he did his job than get out of position looking for goals....how many goals does Scott Parker score? He's the same sort of player and integral to how we play. Was my MOM vs Spurs, don't think his form has dropped at all tbh. has he had a bad game this season? In most I have given him 9 out of 10. I actually had doubts over the summer whether his touch was good enough for this level. I was so wrong. He was good last season, but he's been better this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpweySaint Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 He has shown the ability to get forward and run with the ball but I think he just needs a bit more confidence in doing so. Also between him and Morgan, with our full backs pushing up high, one of them is always likely to sit deeper and with Morgan being a more powerful runner and cork arguably having a little more ease of distribution it just makes sense he'd be the one to sit. Hopefully he can get a goal nice and early next season and grow in confidence so that when he does have a chance to push forward he takes it. Has good control of the ball at his feet and, even without being the fastest, could well run at men with the ball at feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 14 May, 2013 Share Posted 14 May, 2013 I think the club are trying to develop Morgan into the true box to box all round midfielder who makes late runs into the box. I'm not sure we need two people doing it as it could harm our balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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