Saints V Pompey - The Get Along Years

[Noodles34]

One for the older guys maybe?

 

Does anyone recall when you could watch us and them with no trouble?

What was it like, was there no animosity?

When did the trouble begin?

 

Just interested, all my life we ****in hate em, but I hear it wasn't always like that?

[VectisSaint]

One for the older guys maybe?

 

Does anyone recall when you could watch us and them with no trouble?

What was it like, was there no animosity?

When did the trouble begin?

 

Just interested, all my life we ****in hate em, but I hear it wasn't always like that?

Plenty of people used to alternate between watching Saints one weekend and Pompey the next. There was friendly rivalry in the 1960s, no animosity at all, although my old man was a Pompey man and took me to first Saints game on the understanding he would never do it again. Ironic really that he was Pompey, given his grandmother was born in Bullar Street, something he never knew, and that Mary Bates was his cousin (again something he never knew). When I started going to the Dell the rivalry was with Spurs, and that has always stuck with me.

[Dr Who?]

My dad, rest his soul, used to get annoyed with me for the hate I had towards them. He always said that he hoped all the sout coast teams did well.

 

On that note, good luck Brighton tomorrow, I really want them to go up.

[CB Fry]

As a kid, I can remember watching that FA Cup semi with Liverpool in 92 or whenever it was.

 

And I definitely wanted Pompey to win. It helped thay I despised Liverpool but I had no malice towards Pompey at all.

Edited 9 May, 2013 by CB Fry

[SFC Forever]

For my sins I am one of those that would go to both Saints and Pompey games depending obviously where Saints were playing. Back before the trouble we could stand with the opposition fans when we were playing each other without fear or trepidation.

[teamsaint]

Those who went to both were sometimes known in portsmouth as Scumpys.

[dubai_phil]

Those who went to both were sometimes known in portsmouth as Scumpys.

 

What about those who did that and included Bournemouth in their trips? Not me TBH bit a couple of lads in my Village Cricket team just liked watching footie wherever it was (Back in the Day)

[Noodles34]

So when did the trouble (violence) start, was part of the epidemic in the 70's? Anyone pinpoint a moment? We know that it was pretty brutal in the Steve Moran Winner game, when was that, early 80's? What was the score in the 70's, did we play each other much?

[UpweySaint]

I think most sensible people its a friendly sporting rivalry, good for a bit of banter and bragging rights. I happen to live in portsmouth and, though I wont go into the local clad in a saints shirt, get nothing worse then a bit of stick for being a saints fan (never goes well when they crack on about losing to spurs when you ask if they're looking forwards to torquay away!)

[The Kraken]

I think most sensible people its a friendly sporting rivalry, good for a bit of banter and bragging rights. I happen to live in portsmouth and, though I wont go into the local clad in a saints shirt, get nothing worse then a bit of stick for being a saints fan (never goes well when they crack on about losing to spurs when you ask if they're looking forwards to torquay away!)

Unless you're one who wants to go looking for trouble, message boards are where the warriors mostly come out to get stuck into the rivalry and hatred thing. I have in the past and continue to work with Pompey fans and its just banter (although pretty hard to take when we got thumped down at their place). Even after the 1-4 at home it wasn't rubbed in too much; probably because deep down they knew they had players they couldn't afford, and we were 2 divisions below.

[UpweySaint]

Unless you're one who wants to go looking for trouble, message boards are where the warriors mostly come out to get stuck into the rivalry and hatred thing. I have in the past and continue to work with Pompey fans and its just banter (although pretty hard to take when we got thumped down at their place). Even after the 1-4 at home it wasn't rubbed in too much; probably because deep down they knew they had players they couldn't afford, and we were 2 divisions below.

 

Oh yeah you'l always find a few total tw*ts who use football as an excuse to have a scrap but you'r right it's mostly just good natured competion.

[spyinthesky]

I used to go to school in Fareham and there was no animosity between Saints and Pompey fans then

 

My Dad used to regularly watch Saints but would occasionally go to Fratton or Dean Court as did many others

 

My first recollection of ill feeling was the 1960/1 game at Fratton when our young mascot (he was about 14 and used to run round the pitch in club colours with an ols Aitre raid rattle) had running track dirt thrown in his face by some Pompey fans.

 

I think their 'Sailor Boy' mascot didn't cover himself in glory either.

 

After this time the crowd violence thing started to take shape in English football but most Saints fans were slow to dislike Pompey, as there had been a generally good disposition towards the team from Saints fans whereas the Pompey lot seemed be upset that their team's predominance (since the late 1920's) had been lost to the emerging Saints from the 1960's onwards

 

it is noticeable that since 1960 Pompey have only finished higher in the League in 7 of the 53 seasons and have only had a higher average league attendance in 3 of the 53 seasons!!

 

That has intensified the bad feeling down the eastern end of the M27

[Noodles34]

I used to go to school in Fareham and there was no animosity between Saints and Pompey fans then

 

My Dad used to regularly watch Saints but would occasionally go to Fratton or Dean Court as did many others

 

My first recollection of ill feeling was the 1960/1 game at Fratton when our young mascot (he was about 14 and used to run round the pitch in club colours with an ols Aitre raid rattle) had running track dirt thrown in his face by some Pompey fans.

 

I think their 'Sailor Boy' mascot didn't cover himself in glory either.

 

After this time the crowd violence thing started to take shape in English football but most Saints fans were slow to dislike Pompey, as there had been a generally good disposition towards the team from Saints fans whereas the Pompey lot seemed be upset that their team's predominance (since the late 1920's) had been lost to the emerging Saints from the 1960's onwards

 

it is noticeable that since 1960 Pompey have only finished higher in the League in 7 of the 53 seasons and have only had a higher average league attendance in 3 of the 53 seasons!!

 

That has intensified the bad feeling down the eastern end of the M27

 

Don't know too much about the origins of football violence, but as you state, it started in the 60's? Always thought it was the next decade. Did the Mods and Rockers trouble spill over to the terraces?

[Noodles34]

I think most sensible people its a friendly sporting rivalry, good for a bit of banter and bragging rights. I happen to live in portsmouth and, though I wont go into the local clad in a saints shirt, get nothing worse then a bit of stick for being a saints fan (never goes well when they crack on about losing to spurs when you ask if they're looking forwards to torquay away!)

 

Not so sure about that, I wouldn't dream of wearing any Saints colours to that town, I honestly do not believe that it would go uncontested and result in some sort of physical abuse.

[lotois-saint]

I can remember those years. I used to go in the fifties with my father, from Woolston Station to Fratton Park, when the train was full of Saints supporters going to watch Pompey. There were never any problems, it's just what you did if you wanted to see Division 1 football. You went to see the football, not squabble about some ridiculously fabricated rivalry, it just didn't exist then. There, I saw the legendary Stanley Mathews play for Blackpool, the pre-Munich Busby Babes, including the great Duncan Edwards and a very young Bobby Charlton; I also saw the post Munich Man. U team cobbled together immediately after the disaster for an FA cup match. In that match, I saw Earnie Taylor, he of the devastating 'body swerve' and of course a young Bobbie Charlton who survived the crash. If you wanted to see these players, the equivalent then of Premier League players, it's what you did, mixing with Pompey supporters.

[Sour Mash]

Oh yeah you'l always find a few total tw*ts who use football as an excuse to have a scrap but you'r right it's mostly just good natured competion.

Absolute rubbish. Walk around Fratton Park on a match day in a Saints shirt and see if it's just a small minority.

[UpweySaint]

Absolute rubbish. Walk around Fratton Park on a match day in a Saints shirt and see if it's just a small minority.

 

Oh come on that's just silly. You do that and it looks like you'r on the wind up and may well deserve being told where to go.

 

I maintain, day to day, you tell somebody in portsmouth you'r a saints fan they'l call you a c**t then forget about it. Most football fans are frankly happy to talk football. That and you'l find plenty of them will now also enjoy a good mutual "isnt that harry a w**nker" conversation.

[Golden Balls]

Oh come on that's just silly. You do that and it looks like you'r on the wind up and may well deserve being told where to go.

 

I maintain, day to day, you tell somebody in portsmouth you'r a saints fan they'l call you a c**t then forget about it. Most football fans are frankly happy to talk football. That and you'l find plenty of them will now also enjoy a good mutual "isnt that harry a w**nker" conversation.

 

Yep. I work down that end a few times a month and often the subject of football comes up. Never had trouble about being a Saints fan, just banter.

 

Even wore a Saints GK shirt when playing in goal for my school back in 2003 in a Hampshire cup game down there. Word got round that a scummer was in goal and I got verbal abuse all game. Played well and had plenty of hand shakes after the game. Very small minority would ever go further than banter.

[Sour Mash]

Oh come on that's just silly. You do that and it looks like you'r on the wind up and may well deserve being told where to go.

 

I maintain, day to day, you tell somebody in portsmouth you'r a saints fan they'l call you a c**t then forget about it. Most football fans are frankly happy to talk football. That and you'l find plenty of them will now also enjoy a good mutual "isnt that harry a w**nker" conversation.

So it's clearly not just a 'few total two@ts' but a sizeable percentage. As you say yourself you wouldn't even wear your Saints shirt into your local pub.

[Lord Duckhunter]

One thing I've noticed is how many of their mates they tell that they hate us. Ive lost count the number of other sides supporters I meet , who upon finding out I support Saints tell me about a work mate or mate, who really hates us "scummers" . They seem to want to be defined by how much they hate us. Unfortunately , we seem to be heading in that direction, im pretty sure the majority of saints fans weren't really that bothered about them when I was growing up, the hatred really came from them, I always felt they hated us a load more. Nowadays its pretty much mutual.

[cambsaint]

The first (adult?) fight I saw-(that is if the word adult can correctly be used to describe fighting) was Saints v Pompey in 63 or 64. The Pompey sailor stood near the wall to the right of the Milton Rd end. Just before kick-off some Saints supporters arrived - aged about 30 or so as I remember, to find their usual positions occupied by Pompey supporters including "The Matalo".

A fist fight broke out and The Matalo got a very bloody nose.

A few coppers ran round including the sergeant who was built like a huge brick shedhouse, yanked the two out and marched them off, and that was the end of it.

I saw no more trouble for a couple of years until it became fashionable in about 66.

It must have made quite an impression on me as I can remember little about other matches at that time.

In those days Dads brought stools to stand their nippers on, and rattles and horns were commonplace.

I was at Uni in Portsmouth in the very late 60s and although there would be trouble between the usual suspects at Saints vs Pompey matches there wasn't the bitter rivalry that exists now.

IMHO it began out of the intense jealousy that Portsmouth supporters felt about us during our long stay in the First Division (before The Prem) while they languished in the lower divisions as we hardly ever thought about them in those days.

It has reached ludicrous levels, and I used to despair at the number of times anti-Portsmouth songs and chants were sung instead of just getting on with supporting Saints.

[ericofarabia]

Difficult to put an exact date on it as we didn't get to play them for so long, what with us in the Top Tier and them floundering around in the lower leagues from 66 onwards.

Back in the late 60's early 70's we played each other in a few Testimonials of which our team's "non friendly" approach to Skatesmuffs keeper John Milkins's testimonial at their dump was perhaps the 1st case of widespread violence between the two teams. No tippy tappy let Milkins score a penalty match this one - we stuffed 7 past him LOL.

My 1st Skate match was our 1st win in Div 2 after our relegation. 2-1 to us, and a pretty tense affair indeed, but most of the real hatred coming from them.

 

Except for the old "Ïf I had the wings of a sparrow, if I had the ar5e of a crow, I'd fly over Fratton tomorrow and sh!t on the bastards below, below" I can't really remember any anti skates singing back then.

They simply weren't on our radar for me. Hating Man U was the order of the day back then!!

[lordswoodsaints]

My first away game was pompey 1976,I don't remember any trouble and I don't recall any talk of violent hatred towards them but then I was only 9.

1984 cup game was a different story though and I remember early 80's there was always rumblings of 'cant wait to meet the scummers',so IMO something changed between 1976-early 80's.....I could be wrong though and I'm sure the older lot on here will have differing opinions.

[ericofarabia]

My first away game was pompey 1976,I don't remember any trouble and I don't recall any talk of violent hatred towards them but then I was only 9.

1984 cup game was a different story though and I remember early 80's there was always rumblings of 'cant wait to meet the scummers',so IMO something changed between 1976-early 80's.....I could be wrong though and I'm sure the older lot on here will have differing opinions.

 

Oh for the innocence of youth!! 76 home and away were very edgy affairs indeed - especially at their place when we effectively relegated them whilst basking in the glory of reaching the Cup Final a few days earlier.

[chocco boxo]

Leaving their place after that 76 match, remember walking through the stand aged 11 and getting abuse not banter as had a Saints scarf on. My Dad and Uncle also copped aload of abuse but laughed it off with other Saints fans. Only really took a total dislike to them after the 84 Cup match.

Now they provide me with so much laughter!

[dellboypete]

I used to go to school in Fareham and there was no animosity between Saints and Pompey fans then

 

My Dad used to regularly watch Saints but would occasionally go to Fratton or Dean Court as did many others

 

My first recollection of ill feeling was the 1960/1 game at Fratton when our young mascot (he was about 14 and used to run round the pitch in club colours with an ols Aitre raid rattle) had running track dirt thrown in his face by some Pompey fans.

 

I think their 'Sailor Boy' mascot didn't cover himself in glory either.

 

After this time the crowd violence thing started to take shape in English football but most Saints fans were slow to dislike Pompey, as there had been a generally good disposition towards the team from Saints fans whereas the Pompey lot seemed be upset that their team's predominance (since the late 1920's) had been lost to the emerging Saints from the 1960's onwards

 

it is noticeable that since 1960 Pompey have only finished higher in the League in 7 of the 53 seasons and have only had a higher average league attendance in 3 of the 53 seasons!!

 

That has intensified the bad feeling down the eastern end of the M27

 

This is about right for me too.

 

My eldest sister (who is quite a few years older than me) joined the navy at 16 as a nurse and ended up at Gosport then Rowner. If saints were away I would often go over to stay for the weekend and go to FP and I can clearly remember that from the mid-60's there was real animosity against saints.

[teamsaint]

There was plenty of trouble in the September 74 game at the Dell.

[Prince Jazzbo]

it is noticeable that since 1960 Pompey have only finished higher in the League in 7 of the 53 seasons and have only had a higher average league attendance in 3 of the 53 seasons!!

 

In actual fact if you look at our entire history from the date that both clubs existed. We have finished higher in the league more times than they have. I cant remember the actual stats, but it starts right back when we were in the Southern League. Their league titles aside, our overall league performance has always been superior to theirs. Something you dont hear about from them.

[red&white56]

I remember a story from my dad that when Pompey last won the Division title (49-50)they brought the trophy to the Dell and did a lap of honour.

 

As i wasn't born then I have no corroboration if this is true or not, but I can confirm that we used to look for the Pompey results when at the Dell and cheer if they had won.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Blimey, some of the posters on this board are bloody ancient come on you silver-surfers

[Saint Malc]

There was plenty of trouble in the September 74 game at the Dell.

 

That was the first occasion of serious trouble I remember. 200 skates got off the train at St Denys and promptly got detained by the OB.

 

The trouble with the stereotypical skate is that they have spent their whole lives dedicated to hating us scummers with a passion rather than supporting their own team. Shame really as I couldn't give a monkey's about them.

[Hamwic]

The 1970s seemed to be characterised by a lot of violence up and down the country, much of it not football-related. While I remember plenty of animosity between Saints and Pompey supporters at the time, I also remember clearly some of the violence involving us and other clubs both home and away. One occassion sticks in my mind; trying to shield my son, (about 7 at the time), from a hail of coins with sharply filed edges courtesy of the Chelsea 'fans'. Happily the violence has abated but the animosity, now much milder, towards our blue bretheren has continued.

[Bourne Valley Saint]

I went to the Game at FP in 1976 and there was a spot of bother in their Milton Road End but nothing too serious. However, at the home game earlier that season (I was 17 at the time) I went with a mate to the match and rather naively suggested to him that we should go and watch from the Archers Road as all the Pompey will be up the Milton - as that was the case the year before (they were separated by a line of police and stewards all match!). I had a red and white scarf on and walked in to the Archers to be greeted by about 3000 Blue and White clad Pompey fans. I tried walking along the gulley behind the terracing to get to the East Stand whilst trying to dodge the doc martens being aimed at me from the back of the terrace (a bit like one of those tv games where you try and remain upright whilst objects pop out and try and hit you) but couldn't get through, so clutching my red and white scarf in my hand went back along again to try and get in the pen between the Archers and the West Stand (where the scoreboard used to be) and after a few more kicks managed to get in there where fortunately a few other daft Saints fans were standing and we remained in relative safely for the rest of the game which we won 4-0 (its on You Tube somewhere).

 

We used to sing "We come from Southampton the Pride of the South" a lot in those days and can never remember any goodwill towards them. However, I knew of several people a generation older who went to watch both Saints and Pompey in the 50's and 60's but luckily it skipped our generation!

 

So in answer to the original question, I can vouch that there was no love lost between the two sets of fans from 1976!!

[Minty]

I wouldn't dream of wearing any Saints colours to that town, I honestly do not believe that it would go uncontested and result in some sort of physical abuse.

 

Well, I did it once... before on the forum, I used to organise the Saints fans' football team which consisted at that time of listees from Saintslist, before it migrated over here more recently and Steve Grant took over.

 

We played the Portsmouth fans' team at Mountbatten Sports Centre in full Saints kit one year and actually had a good game with no real trouble. We had some good banter and no real trouble at all - except for a return match one year when we played on the Astroturf at Trojans, and a couple of 10-year olds who had come up with the Pompey fans team stood on the sidelines throwing stones at our players!

 

And then, more recently, was the game vs Pompey Online at Moneyfields, for charity, which also went very well (helped by a comfortable win for us of course!).

[The9]

As a kid, I can remember watching that FA Cup semi with Liverpool in 92 or whenever it was.

 

And I definitely wanted Pompey to win. It helped thay I despised Liverpool but I had no malice towards Pompey at all.

 

Due to my n00b status as a Uni-attending barely Saints fan in 1991/2 who often took in random matches, I actually went to see the Skates play Millwall the week before the semi-final, they won 6-1 and I got a voucher which qualified me for an FA Cup semi-final ticket. Made my decision then and there - I was used to mediocrity in my football teams and wasn't having any of this success malarkey, so I chose Branfoot's Saints and stuck with it. TCWTB being about 10 yards from me probably helped matters, admittedly.

[The9]

And then, more recently, was the game vs Pompey Online at Moneyfields, for charity, which also went very well (helped by a comfortable win for us of course!).

 

Amen to that, though I did ruin my favourite sweatshirt by leaning on a wall coated in chewing gum. WHO STICKS GUM HALF WAY UP A WALL ? Skates, that's who.

 

At the time I actually knew more of their team than ours, because I worked with the guy who ran Pompey Online and a couple of the midfielders were also work colleagues.

[St_Tel49]

For my sins I am one of those that would go to both Saints and Pompey games depending obviously where Saints were playing. Back before the trouble we could stand with the opposition fans when we were playing each other without fear or trepidation.

And that is the rub. Prior to the seventies you could go to any game and there was no segregation and the yelled banter between fans could be really funny. The seventies changed all that and made watching football a far worse experience than it should have been. In fact the combination of dire Charles Hughes style football, cloggers and football violence caused me to stop watching football for nearly 20 years. I only returned when I brought my son to the Dell in the 90s.

[Saint Malc]

Well, I did it once... before on the forum, I used to organise the Saints fans' football team which consisted at that time of listees from Saintslist, before it migrated over here more recently and Steve Grant took over.

 

We played the Portsmouth fans' team at Mountbatten Sports Centre in full Saints kit one year and actually had a good game with no real trouble. We had some good banter and no real trouble at all.

 

Blimey Minty, I remember playing in that one. The middle of Portsmouth in your Saints kit. I've never felt so uncomfortable in my life.

[UpweySaint]

So it's clearly not just a 'few total two@ts' but a sizeable percentage. As you say yourself you wouldn't even wear your Saints shirt into your local pub.

 

Err no. There's a difference between getting glares for acting like a d**k and somebody trying to take your head off. They're certainly in the minority.

 

But yeah my local in fratton, landlord is diehard pompey, it is a pompey pub. I would think somebody turning up in the le tiss arms in a pompey shirt would get told where to go too and rightly so. There's a difference between being a fan of a different club or just being an antagonistic tw*t.

[Saints Fan Dan]

Until they got promoted in 2003 a whole generation of Saints fans weren't too aware of a big rivalry between the two. It wasn't actually until the 1-0 defeat at Fratton, where every touch of the ball by a Saints player was met with a torrent of abuse, that I noticed how much they hated us. The following season it became more mutual and intensified.

 

But now with the even larger gap between us I find myself cringing slightly at the anti Pompey songs, especially the constant airing of wtfiln. Enough already. Even the last bit in Matt's autobiography makes me cringe where he says "with Saints now on the up and Pompey in decline". He played during a time that we didn't really care about them, why mention them!

[Saint Malc]

But now with the even larger gap between us I find myself cringing slightly at the anti Pompey songs, especially the constant airing of wtfiln. Enough already. Even the last bit in Matt's autobiography makes me cringe where he says "with Saints now on the up and Pompey in decline". He played during a time that we didn't really care about them, why mention them!

 

You are way off the mark Dan, sorry. The intense hatred, particularly from that end of the M27, was even more intense, IMO, before Matt's autobiography. You may not be old enough to remember. If you are, please accept my apologies.

 

I do, and always have, agreed with you with respect to anti-Pompey songs. In all my years of supporting Saints I just couldn't see the point of even mentioning them, particularly if we're not even playing them. They're so off my radar I don't really care about them. I'd much prefer to put my energy into supporting Saints rather than giving them any credence.

[View From The Top]

I was based in pompey during the late 80s and early 90s and often went drinking wearing a Saints polo. Some verbals but nothing more.

[KK the 2nd]

I believe it grew out of the terrace violence in the late 60's early seventies. I remember trouble in the Milton going back to the old fairs cup against Newcastle. There were anti pompey songs backin the early seventies (e.g. I love to go a wandering through the Milton rd, repeat, and if I see aPompey fan I'll kick him the head, and if see a Pompey fan I'll kick him till he's dead.). Fact is not much action between the clubs then. The match in 84 was tense to say the least and was as bad then as it is now, if not worse. It's a shame though, growing up as a kid I kept a scrap book of Football photos from the papers particulary the Echo and remember having a fondness for Pompey (players like Ray Hiron, Milkins, Jimmy Dickenson, George Ley all featured). My mates at the time all Saints but felt the same.

[Charlie Wayman]

Plenty of people used to alternate between watching Saints one weekend and Pompey the next. There was friendly rivalry in the 1960s, no animosity at all, although my old man was a Pompey man and took me to first Saints game on the understanding he would never do it again. Ironic really that he was Pompey, given his grandmother was born in Bullar Street, something he never knew, and that Mary Bates was his cousin (again something he never knew). When I started going to the Dell the rivalry was with Spurs, and that has always stuck with me.

 

Remember those times very well. Pompey were much the better side then, won the Cup won the FL a couple of times whereas we never quite made it to the promised land and even languished for a spell in the old Div 3(S) - very much the underdogs so no real rivalry. Fratton Park looked good in those days with 50k inside and I remember the Busby babes down there with Duncan Edwards and all those lads playing good stuff and Blackpool with the twin Stan's but Pompey were a great side then and no pushover with Jim Dickinson and Jack Froggart...

 

Nobody at the Dell or Fratton Park gave a stuff who you supported and replica kit wasn't even a germ of an idea then. We'd just been through a very nasty world war with foreigners so weren't quite ready to start domestic ones; everyone was on the same side except mods and rockers.

[The9]

I have fond memories of Dave Ford yelling "who the f'ck are Pompey?" after every song about them when were AAP in the 90s and early 2000s.

[The9]

Football tribalism pretty much came out of teenagers getting money and free time in the early 60s and suddenly being able to travel in groups with an improved transport infrastructure, with a gang mentality and joint identity whilst out of the range of their parents.

[Tom & Gerry]

I used to go to school in Fareham and there was no animosity between Saints and Pompey fans then

 

My Dad used to regularly watch Saints but would occasionally go to Fratton or Dean Court as did many others

 

My first recollection of ill feeling was the 1960/1 game at Fratton when our young mascot (he was about 14 and used to run round the pitch in club colours with an ols Aitre raid rattle) had running track dirt thrown in his face by some Pompey fans.

I think their 'Sailor Boy' mascot didn't cover himself in glory either.

 

After this time the crowd violence thing started to take shape in English football but most Saints fans were slow to dislike Pompey, as there had been a generally good disposition towards the team from Saints fans whereas the Pompey lot seemed be upset that their team's predominance (since the late 1920's) had been lost to the emerging Saints from the 1960's onwards

 

it is noticeable that since 1960 Pompey have only finished higher in the League in 7 of the 53 seasons and have only had a higher average league attendance in 3 of the 53 seasons!!

 

That has intensified the bad feeling down the eastern end of the M27

 

I remember running round the track about that time with a banner (as you did in those days)and the banner being completely destroyed by the track grit. You could feel the hatred and for the first time I realized this was more than banter. Then there was the game down there in 1964 which we won 3-0. Every time Saints scored kids would run on to the pitch from the Fratton end , there was no segregation. By the time the 3rd goal had gone in the Pompey kids had had enough and there were scraps on the pitch with the players trying to break it up. It progressed from there really. It it was just they couldn't take our new dominance.

[spyinthesky]

Football tribalism pretty much came out of teenagers getting money and free time in the early 60s and suddenly being able to travel in groups with an improved transport infrastructure, with a gang mentality and joint identity whilst out of the range of their parents.

 

I think you are pretty spot on with your timings and comment on social change

 

I used to travel quite extensively to follow Saints as a teenager and also occasionally used to watch top teams in London and around the country without any hint of trouble.

 

Can remember odd individual fights in the, non segregated, terraces at Cardiff and Plymouth during our promotion year (to the old 1st Div) in 1965/6 but nothing too dramatic.

 

However the first mass violence I recollect was when Chelsea arrived for an early game in our first year in Div 1 and they mob handed took over the Milton Road end.

 

It was a bit of a culture shock for us younger supporters

 

Around about this time Pompey fans came visiting for John Hollowbread's testimonial and there were scuffles then too and I think this may have started reciproical bad feeling by some Saints fans towards Pompey. (Interesting to note that when Jimmy Dickinson, the old Pompey stalwart, played his last game at the Dell he got clapped onto the field by a guard of saints players and a great reaction from the Saints fans. Compare this to the Ted Bates game at St Marys)

 

Culturally terrace aggression was a progression of mob violence started by the Teddy Boys in the 1950's and continued by the Mods and Rockers in the mid 60's and early 70's.

 

Bank Holidays in seaside resorts at this time was carnage with what could be described as mass riots going on

[The9]

I think you are pretty spot on with your timings and comment on social change

 

I hope so, I did a dissertation on the policing of football hooliganism and lifted it from some sociology books. Quadrophenia also underlines the culture quite nicely and it's nice to see your anecdotal stuff support it.

 

FWIW I went to my first match in 1973 aged 1 week but wasn't really sensitive to the culture back then, and I definitely missed the "pleasant" stuff. Some places (south Wales, Millwall) don't ever seem to have caught up with the swathe of changes of the early 90s though.

[derry]

Nobody wore replica shirts in those days, it seems that since supporters started wearing the teams shirts the yobbish behaviour started. I went to plenty of Saints matches at Fratton and never felt threatened including the 1984 FA Cup. Nowadays the pack mentality from some causes the problem. It is really only football that suffers from this low life behaviour. Other sports are much more grown up.