Did we all vote UKIP today

[Batman]

Put good packaging on an awful product and watch the suckers buy it on mass.

 

Farage should think about getting a book about his struggle published.

 

you could say that about any party.

in 2009, people laughed off UKIP when they came 2nd in the european elections and people said it was a flash in the pan and they would never get anything like that vote share on domestic issues.

 

their rise is going to effect both labour and tory

[JN9]

I don't know much about politics but I do know that spoiling your vote is completely pointless and has no bearing on bearing on anything...

 

All you manage to achieve by spoiling a vote is wasting your own time spoiling said vote...

 

Glad I could be helpful.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

I don't know much about politics but I do know that spoiling your vote is completely pointless and has no bearing on bearing on anything...

 

All you manage to achieve by spoiling a vote is wasting your own time spoiling said vote...

 

Glad I could be helpful.

 

Completely disagree. If you don't like any of the candidates but don't bother voting then the parties will just assume you couldn't be bothered. If you instead spoil your ballot paper then it is clear that you were bothered but didn't like the options.

[Wes Tender]

It seems that in Hampshire UKIP got nearly 10,000 more votes than the Lib Dems, but 7 less seats. Ironic that with another voting system they could have been even further humiliated.

 

In Eastleigh they lost 3 or 4 seats to UKIP. It will be interesting in the next General Election, as the Lib Dems always say that Labour stand no chance and that it is a straight fight between them and the Conservatives. I usually vote Conservative, but am seriously considering voting tactically next time to unseat the Lib Dem. If that happened throughout the country, they could be virtually wiped out, which would be great.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Until we get a straight in/out vote on Europe UKIP aren't going anywhere. The establishment have had a "we know best " attitude towards Europe and that policy has driven people into the arms of UKIP. Perhaps when they top the European elections next year the establishment may think again and listen to the will of the people.

 

Anyone who saw Farage on "This week" last night will know exactly what a decent sort of bloke he is, compare him to the clones that run and are at the top of the 3 major parties.

[DuncanRG]

you could say that about any party.

in 2009, people laughed off UKIP when they came 2nd in the european elections and people said it was a flash in the pan and they would never get anything like that vote share on domestic issues.

 

their rise is going to effect both labour and tory

 

We'll see what happens in 2015. Divergence from the centre is almost synonymous with economic difficulty and particularly austerity - people turn to extremes when times are tough and the centrist main parties let them down. This UKIP vote is significant but it's about as mid-term as it gets - a real victory would be making an impact on a general election.

 

It would be wrong to dismiss them all as racists but there is something very 'I'm not racist, but' about UKIP.

 

Until we get a straight in/out vote on Europe UKIP aren't going anywhere. The establishment have had a "we know best " attitude towards Europe and that policy has driven people into the arms of UKIP. Perhaps when they top the European elections next year the establishment may think again and listen to the will of the people.

 

Anyone who saw Farage on "This week" last night will know exactly what a decent sort of bloke he is, compare him to the clones that run and are at the top of the 3 major parties.

 

The in/out referendum is a Tory manifesto pledge.

Edited 3 May, 2013 by DuncanRG

[buctootim]

Completely disagree. If you don't like any of the candidates but don't bother voting then the parties will just assume you couldn't be bothered. If you instead spoil your ballot paper then it is clear that you were bothered but didn't like the options.

 

Its not though. Spoiled ballot papers are just a mish mash of ineligible votes submitted by the careless, forgetful, loopy and senile - torn in half, two crosses, obscenities, coloured in or papers where some old dear forgot to put a cross. The deliberate political statements aren't read or registered as such, just in the heap with the rest.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

But in FPTP it results in bugger all.

 

Not really because it changes the dynamics. Everybody knows that come a General Election most people will revert back to their usual party of choice however it may just push UKIP up to 4% which will be very influential in certain seats. It will also be significant in determining the policy of the main parties in their General Election manifestos. Most importantly I think that come the European Elections they genuinely have a chance of topping the polls. People will be desperate to fill the EU parliament full of people who hold the EU to account. Their budgets that nobody will sign off and their undemocratic attitude to the region's affairs.

[Hamilton Saint]

Its not though. Spoiled ballot papers are just a mish mash of ineligible votes submitted by the careless, forgetful, loopy and senile - torn in half, two crosses, obscenities, coloured in or papers where some old dear forgot to put a cross. The deliberate political statements aren't read or registered as such, just in the heap with the rest.

 

Wrong. Spoiled ballots are the same as abstentions - a legitimate and honourable option. Think about it - it means that a person took the trouble to come to the polling station, but then indicate that they do not favour any of the potential candidates.

[Whitey Grandad]

I don't know much about politics but I do know that spoiling your vote is completely pointless and has no bearing on bearing on anything...

 

All you manage to achieve by spoiling a vote is wasting your own time spoiling said vote...

 

Glad I could be helpful.

 

Completely disagree. If you don't like any of the candidates but don't bother voting then the parties will just assume you couldn't be bothered. If you instead spoil your ballot paper then it is clear that you were bothered but didn't like the options.

 

We need a box for 'None of the above'

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

It would be wrong to dismiss them all as racists but there is something very 'I'm not racist, but' about UKIP.

 

 

 

The in/out referendum is a Tory manifesto pledge.

 

What on earth is racist about wanting to limit immigration, do you support an open door policy or do you believe there is a limit?

 

If you notice I posted a "straight" in/out referendum. The tory "pledge" is not straight. It relies on 2 things. 1; they form the next Govt alone and 2; they can renegotiate some powers back from Brussels (which isn't going to happen). It is not a serious pledge it is kicking it into the long grass. It is a pledge that is designed to con the British people AGAIN.

[DuncanRG]

Nothing is inherently racist about wanting to limit immigration - a lot is racist about a significant number of UKIP members and supporters and their leadership has only done so much to seperate them from the party. The same applies to sexism and homophobia.

 

Nobody, as far as I'm aware, actually supports an open door policy. It's a strawman, not something that actually happens in Britain. Call it lenient, a soft touch or what have you but it's not an 'open door'.

Edited 3 May, 2013 by DuncanRG

[solentstars]

you could say that about any party.

in 2009, people laughed off UKIP when they came 2nd in the european elections and people said it was a flash in the pan and they would never get anything like that vote share on domestic issues.

 

their rise is going to effect both labour and tory

 

No its not its only going to damage the Tory party and lead to a labour government with a larger majority in a general election.

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

Nobody, as far as I'm aware, actually supports an open door policy. It's a strawman, not a thing that actually happens in Britain. Call it lenient, a soft touch or what have you but it's not an 'open door'.

 

Oh ok, so there's a limit to the number of EU citizens that can come and live in the UK then?

[DuncanRG]

Not as far as I'm aware, but there are limits on immigration from everywhere else in the world. 'Open door' is an absolute term that shouldn't be used lightly. The door is closed on many, many people.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Not as far as I'm aware, but there are limits on immigration from everywhere else in the world. 'Open door' is an absolute term that shouldn't be used lightly. The door is closed on many, many people.

 

So there is an "open door" policy for the 503 million people in the EU?

[DuncanRG]

Possibly.

[DuncanRG]

Let's not pretend 503 million people are showing up on our doorstep!

[Lord Duckhunter]

Let's not pretend 503 million people are showing up on our doorstep!

 

Who is saying that?

 

You said there was no open door policy, there is for EU citizens.

 

Every party sets limits for non EU immigration, are they racist parties?

[DuncanRG]

I'm merely contesting the use of the term 'open door' without clarification. Misinformation about who can and can't get into this country is such a big problem on both sides.

 

I don't think UKIP are a racist party, and certainly not because of their immigration policy. I think bigotry of all kinds is rife in a significant portion of their members, representatives and supporters, and the party doesn't do enough to get them out.

[Lord Duckhunter]

.

 

I don't think UKIP are a racist party, and certainly not because of their immigration policy. I think bigotry of all kinds is rife in a significant portion of their members, representatives and supporters, and the party doesn't do enough to get them out.

 

How can you get supporters out, does Farage need to stand at the polling station vetting everyone?

 

I presume you have more information about their representatives than the papers and Tories. They found 2 or 3 out of thousands, you said it is a "significant portion". How do you know this, what evidence have you got?

 

You say people need to be careful of their use of "open door", I think you should be careful when you mislead people by saying "significant portion".

[Bearsy]

is paying people to do votes illegal? I've never done a vote, and I know a lot of people that never does votes but we would do votes for money. I think there is business in it! If BNP or al qeeda or whoever stumped up i reckon i could get them elected to sutton coldfields government.

[Window Cleaner]

is paying people to do votes illegal? I've never done a vote, and I know a lot of people that never does votes but we would do votes for money. I think there is business in it! If BNP or al qeeda or whoever stumped up i reckon i could get them elected to sutton coldfields government.

 

soliciting money for votes is certainly illegal Bearsy, however when it's known as lobbying it's proper kosher.

[Bearsy]

ok thanks windows, i'll make sure we just do lobbying for money to do votes

[LGTL]

I'm far from a UKIP supporter but it's been highly amusing to see the snobby tory Alexis Mcevoy get voted out as our councillor in South Waterside.

[scotty]

but they do have farage and he is easily the best speaker of all the leaders.

their support is growing at a rapid rate. They speak at the average person in the UK and speak so much sense

 

you ask farage a question, he will give you an answer. You may not like the answer but he will give you one

just dismissing them as racists is particularly arrogant and stupid.

 

You could say exactly the same about nick griffin. Vile party, vile policies, but imho easily the most persuasive and articulate current party leader in the UK. I well remember him getting phoned early in the morning by the Today programme, clearly unprepared, to answer questions about what shade of brown someone had to be before they could become a BNP member. They were obviously trying to ridicule him, but he wiped the floor with the presenter, who ended up being the one looking a prat. Frightening.

[Batman]

You could say exactly the same about nick griffin. Vile party, vile policies, but imho easily the most persuasive and articulate current party leader in the UK. I well remember him getting phoned early in the morning by the Today programme, clearly unprepared, to answer questions about what shade of brown someone had to be before they could become a BNP member. They were obviously trying to ridicule him, but he wiped the floor with the presenter, who ended up being the one looking a prat. Frightening.

you could say that about nick griffin

 

no you cant

[Orange]

That's no reason to embrace a dangerous alternative

 

 

 

I agree on the first point but if there's one thing they didn't do, it was appeal to the left. Where have you got that from?

 

 

Gay marriage for one. It's not something I lost sleep over but a lot of older traditional Tories I know felt very let down by how and the manner in which they pushed it through.

 

Farage is far from perfect as a person, but I think people like the fact he's actually had a job in the real world, ran his own business etc. Clegg, Milliband, Osborne etc on the other hand..

[solentstars]

Laughing my head off how silly politics has become the nutty right of the Tory party and ukip fighting hard and trying to destroy the present Tory party and handing the next election to labour on plate.

 

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[Batman]

Laughing my head off how silly politics has become the nutty right of the Tory party and ukip fighting hard and trying to destroy the present Tory party and handing the next election to labour on plate.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

 

thing is, UKiP are taking labour and liberal votes too.

labour have made no where near the gains that they should have

[Wes Tender]

Laughing my head off how silly politics has become the nutty right of the Tory party and ukip fighting hard and trying to destroy the present Tory party and handing the next election to labour on plate.

 

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Well, I'm laughing my arse off because you've not realised that UKIP are taking votes off all the other parties.

[solentstars]

Well, I'm laughing my arse off because you've not realised that UKIP are taking votes off all the other parties.

 

No they are not its mainly Tory voters and it reminds me of the 1980s when the sdp split the labour vote for a decade .looks like history is repeating it self.

 

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[Batman]

No they are not its mainly Tory voters and it reminds me of the 1980s when the sdp split the labour vote for a decade .looks like history is repeating it self.

 

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if they are not, then why are political commentators on SKY and BBC saying they are?

 

odd

[Wes Tender]

Not really because it changes the dynamics. Everybody knows that come a General Election most people will revert back to their usual party of choice however it may just push UKIP up to 4% which will be very influential in certain seats. It will also be significant in determining the policy of the main parties in their General Election manifestos. Most importantly I think that come the European Elections they genuinely have a chance of topping the polls. People will be desperate to fill the EU parliament full of people who hold the EU to account. Their budgets that nobody will sign off and their undemocratic attitude to the region's affairs.

 

I think that you're right about the impact that they'll have in the European MEP elections. They are developing a momentum which will become hard to stop. First they have had a very creditable showing in the Eastleigh by-election coming second to the Lib-Dems, which has pursuaded voters elsewhere that they are a force to be reckoned with. Favourable results in the by-election coming second to Labour yesterday and a string of gains in the Council Elections taking seats from all three main parties has shown that they are a suitable vehicle for an alternative protest vote. Come the European Elections, that is what they are there for, to send a message loud and clear to the other parties that the voters are p*ssed off with not having had the chance to vote on the gradual erosion of sovereignty from Westminster to Brussels. This issue has become a boil that needs lancing. If UKIP gain a substantial number of MEPs, then the next election could be cataclysmic for the other parties. But they are effectively a one issue party and had the Europe issue been properly addressed by the others, there would have been no need for their continuing existance.

[solentstars]

if they are not, then why are political commentators on SKY and BBC saying they are?

 

odd[/quote well I expect the labour party are very happy by todays results and will encourage ukip chances and support to damage the Tory party chances big time at the next election and I think most Tory strategists know this.

 

 

 

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Edited 3 May, 2013 by solentstars

[Batman]

well I expect the labour party are very happy by todays resultswhat is happened with

 

 

 

 

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actually, they are not. again, in an interview on Sky news, they said they have not made gain where they expected to. have not won back the number of councils targeted and lost a hefty majority in south shields

 

 

edit - even milliband has just been on acknowledging that Labour may have lost votes to UKIP

Edited 3 May, 2013 by Batman

[Wes Tender]

No they are not its mainly Tory voters and it reminds me of the 1980s when the sdp split the labour vote for a decade .looks like history is repeating it self.

 

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This is nothing like the Labour/SDP split at all. Apart from that being a breakaway party and this is a growing new party, UKIP has grown on the basis of one area of policy, Europe, which has not been addressed by the other parties to the annoyance of the electorate.

 

And your reasoning that UKIP will help Labour is also flawed for one simple reason, even if you believe that it is splitting the Tory vote. Without UKIP, Labour or the Lib Dems have benefitted in previous elections from large numbers of voters voting tactically to prevent one party or the other they disliked from being elected. Labour in many areas had been the recipient of many of those tactical votes, whereas now their recent past record of incompetance and their ineffectual leader will steer voters towards UKIP as the vehicle for the protest vote.

[solentstars]

well I expect the labour party are very happy by todays resultswhat is happened with

 

 

 

 

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actually, they are not. again, in an interview on Sky news, they said they have not made gain where they expected to. have not won back the number of councils targeted and lost a hefty majority in south shields

 

Just going by by experience of what happened in the 1980s when the sdp was formed and the labour vote was split for a decade and see history repeating itself with the Tory infighting.

 

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[Batman]

in 2012, the vote share for the 3 main parties

 

Labour - 38%

Tory - 31%

Liberal - 18%

 

today

 

L - 29%

T - 25%

L - 14%

 

UKIP - 23%

 

to suggest that its just the conservatives that have been hit is quite frankly, idiocy

Edited 3 May, 2013 by Batman

[DuncanRG]

Gay marriage for one. It's not something I lost sleep over but a lot of older traditional Tories I know felt very let down by how and the manner in which they pushed it through.

 

True enough, that will have alienated a lot of voters. I think most on the left, though, view marriage equality as the bare minimum rather than something particularly impressive. If you ask me Cameron pushed it through according to his own conscience rather than as an attempt to move to the left. He's certainly taken welfare and the NHS further right than anyone since Thatcher.

[mcjwills]

in 2012, the vote share for the 3 main parties

 

Labour - 38%

Tory - 31%

Liberal - 18%

 

today

 

L - 29%

T - 25%

L - 14%

 

UKIP - 23%

 

to suggest that its just the conservatives that have been hit is quite frankly, idiocy

 

Will we be seeing the Lib Democrat Independence Party soon then?

[solentstars]

in 2012, the vote share for the 3 main parties

 

Labour - 38%

Tory - 31%

Liberal - 18%

 

today

 

L - 29%

T - 25%

L - 14%

 

UKIP - 23%

 

to suggest that its just the conservatives that have been hit is quite frankly, idiocy

 

I think your find your figures are wrong and that the labour vote for the last time it was contested was 23 and the vote has increased by 6% to 29%.

 

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[Batman]

I think your find your figures are wrong and that the labour vote for the last time it was contested was 23 and the vote has increased by 6% to 29%.

 

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its just been on SKY and BBC 6 o'clock news. !!!

[Sour Mash]

Nothing is inherently racist about wanting to limit immigration - a lot is racist about a significant number of UKIP members and supporters and their leadership has only done so much to seperate them from the party. The same applies to sexism and homophobia.

 

Nobody, as far as I'm aware, actually supports an open door policy. It's a strawman, not something that actually happens in Britain. Call it lenient, a soft touch or what have you but it's not an 'open door'.

Another loony making stuff up. Just what the board needed.

[derry]

Yes, because along with a lot of other conservative voters I wanted to send a message to the Tory party. Sort out the Liberal PM and start acting like Tories if you want my support in the next GE. If the Tories act like Tories the vote will return in droves. Nail down a referendum and let the population decide the EU question.

[solentstars]

its just been on SKY and BBC 6 o'clock news. !!!

 

The last elections in these Ares were fought in 2009 when labour got 23% of the vote when garden brown was labour leader and torys did well.you will find the info on the sky new website. the Tory vote is down 10%.

 

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[solentstars]

Yes, because along with a lot of other conservative voters I wanted to send a message to the Tory party. Sort out the Liberal PM and start acting like Tories if you want my support in the next GE. If the Tories act like Tories the vote will return in droves. Nail down a referendum and let the population decide the EU question.

but do you worry that might let labour party win the election with a divided Tory vote which will put off a referendum for another 5 years.

 

 

 

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[Barry Sanchez]

but they do have farage and he is easily the best speaker of all the leaders.

their support is growing at a rapid rate. They speak at the average person in the UK and speak so much sense

 

you ask farage a question, he will give you an answer. You may not like the answer but he will give you one

just dismissing them as racists is particularly arrogant and stupid.

 

 

I agree with, most people of all political spectrums want straight answers or answers given without caveats, he easily surpasses the big 3 politicians but that could change if he gains real power but as it stands even though I wont vote for him he is a breath of fresh air.

[bug187]

Nope.. not a racist

[DuncanRG]

Yes, because along with a lot of other conservative voters I wanted to send a message to the Tory party. Sort out the Liberal PM and start acting like Tories if you want my support in the next GE. If the Tories act like Tories the vote will return in droves. Nail down a referendum and let the population decide the EU question.

 

Is there anything liberal about the coalition's economic policy? Welfare and NHS reforms?