What an interesting summer we are in for...

[View From The Top]

I would suggest that everyone knows that we need 2 top draw CBs, a LB & some real pace upfront/wide.

 

Difference is that some of us aren't hysterical tarts and don't expect us to be signing Messi.

[Sour Mash]

You would be hard pushed to find many people who didn't believe that there are positions which need strengthening. As with every summer transfer window, we will improve the squad.

 

The usual hysterical critics from a far will no doubt spend all summer telling us what we should be doing whilst also still bleating on about last summer where we actually did do enough solid business to secure our top flight status which was the main objective of the season.

 

People like Alpine bang on as usual about signing everyone early but we have done well worrying about bringing in the right players rather than signing someone as quick as possible. It's a nonsense argument which is raised every year. I remember in the summer, a few people pointing at Readings "excellent" early summer transfers and even McDermott was boasting about it as it they are a benchmark to aspire to. Most people ignored that most of their signings were not very good despite getting them in early.

If we want a benchmark of the perfect way to execute a summer's transfer activity, see Man Utd before the start of this season. We've been told all year not to judge Ramirez has he didn't have a pre-season with us, exactly one of the reasons we should have such deals sewn up asap.

[Saint Charlie]

The management know what areas we need to improve and I am confident they will do so.

 

It is worth remembering Alpine that in the real world the reason deals are left so late is that clubs, players, managers are all holding out for the best deal they can get.

 

Players want to wait and see who comes in for them, clubs make offers for certain players and think towards the end of the window the price will go down and Managers want the best players they can get, why sign Mariappa in June if you can get Yoshida in August for example.

 

It is just the way it works I'm afraid.

[Saint Charlie]

If we want a benchmark of the perfect way to execute a summer's transfer activity, see Man Utd before the start of this season. We've been told all year not to judge Ramirez has he didn't have a pre-season with us, exactly one of the reasons we should have such deals sewn up asap.

 

What if you can't sew the deal up earlier?

 

Should you accept a lesser quality of player NOW?

 

Loads of players like Mata, Silva etc took time to settle and were better second season so thats when to really judge Ramirez IMO.

[Ally Biggs]

Man there are some right fannies on this forum If you look at how far we have progressed over the last three seasons i'm proud anything above relegation this season for me would of been a great achievement. Your saying the team as it stands is going to scrape by next season I agree but that is why there is a transfer window lol. The manager and staff will reflect and analyze and probably all ready have transfer targets in mind.

 

It isn't rocket science that we need to build from the back and our defense is flaky But hey we are staying up and the money we will get will obviously be reinvested and the dead wood shipped out. To the doughnuts complaining we are not pushing for Europe time to step back to reality Rome was not built in a day a mid table finish next season would be a exceptional target.

[Joensuu]

Here's a really left field idea.

 

Having watched the team all season, seen what goes right, what goes wrong, etc, and having had time to look at the rest of the game and determine who would fit why doesnt the management bring in the RIGHT players EARLY (as in, for a full pre-season) for once ? I havent advocated buying any old players, just for the sake of it, even once.

 

We've tried it your way - the pooving around into late August - every season, with imo somewhat patchy results.

 

Here's an idea, having watched the team all season, seen what goes right, what goes wrong why doesnt the management bring in the RIGHT players, irrespective of when they arrive. Ideally this will be early in the window, but this ideal situation will normally result in significantly overpaying. Also, jumping in early will often bloat the squad, or cause us to miss out on better targets (i.e. shortlist of 3 Centre Backs drawn up; the least desirable is available on day one of the window, do you jump on the player on day one, or wait to see if better players can be convinced to join us?)

 

So what do you do Alpine? Sure, if you can, you buy early and right; but this scenario is rare. So what would you prefer to compromise? The 'early' or the 'right'?

[saint1977]

Well we beat Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool, but we're not 'at their level' either. One game does not define our ability. It certainly highlights our inconsistency and the fact that we have players who do not deliver consistently, and I fully agree we need to improve the squad. But one game, be it a win or a loss, should not be used to judge our relative position IMO.

 

Exactly, Saturday was a totally unacceptable performance clearly and you can tell that MP has thrown the proverbial tea cups. But how many league games have we lost in 2013? Not many I think. There is a common thread in the QPR, W Ham and now W Brom home games where our lack of pace out wide and up front has made us easy to blunt, we are better when teams come out at us. However, this can be addressed in the summer, assuming that we get a couple more points to secure safety (I think we'll draw the Sunderland and Stoke games and Wigan will deserve to stay up if they win 3 more games, probably at Villa's expense. Hope Sunderland win tonight!)

 

Back to Saints. Not sure I agree with Alpine's colourful description of last summer's transfer activity. J Rod looks a bargain at £6/7m, Yoshida for £2m (We'd probably have got Liam Fontaine in the UK for that), Clyne for £2.5m (one of our best ever buys), Davis for £750k odd etc. Now OK, the jury is out on Ramirez and Vegard Lucan and Gazzaniga was literally a replacement for Tommy Fourpast, but overall we have 14-15 PL players that can sustain themselves over a 38 game season. There will probably be 15-20, mostly fringe or non First XI players going out and I'd reckon 6 quality first-team ready players coming in, which gives us 20-21 plus some promising youngsters emerging, which as fans we've always enjoyed seeing them develop in a settled First XI. It's up to the players that are slightly under threat from these new purchases to not repeat Saturday again and to prove that their form since Xmas is more representative of what they could offer us next term as first XI starters.

 

I think we need:

 

2 x cb. Jos's efforts have been admirable after a shocking start to the season and remember, he was a stop gap in the NPC let alone the PL. He'll stay as cover I'd imagine but we are badly short in this area. Whether we reinforce at LB depends on how close the club reckon Matt Targett is to pushing Luke Shaw for a starting spot. Perhaps one of the centre backs might be right sided with a bit of pace so that they could play RB reasonably comfortably if Clyne is ruled out?

 

2 X Wingers/express pace strikers. Don't mind where they are recruited from, we need exciting and dynamic wide players that can create a step change in our play and enable the fluidity MP wants. In our segments of the market, we won't get players that are the finished article so we'll need to work with raw athleticism and ability.

 

Striker - We're still short of a different option. Mayuka may or may not be it and I'd like to see him getting a longer run off the bench in the next couple of games.

 

CM - Not as convinced as others that we need to buy here as we have Morgan, Cork, Davis and I reckon Adam, Gaston and Punch's futures might lie infield too. However, given the number of DMCs we are linked with, I'd say the club disagree with me and I'm sure they will be right.

 

GK - Boruc has signed a new deal but are we happy with KD and PG as back-up? Does Boruc need more competition? Not sure NC has been impressed with Gazza and as Nigel was a former GK this might have sealed his fate so wouldn't be surprised if we did buy another GK but there isn't an 100% clear cut case for buying one either.

[Minty]

So, could we summarise this thread as follows?

 

EVERYONE thinks we need to improve the squad and expects us to do so.

 

EVERYONE would like those signings to be made as early as possible in the close season.

 

EVERYONE EXCEPT ALPS accepts that you can't always bring players in as soon as you would like, and if they're not signed early in the window it is not necessarily the clubs fault.

[Sour Mash]

What if you can't sew the deal up earlier?

 

Should you accept a lesser quality of player NOW?

 

Loads of players like Mata, Silva etc took time to settle and were better second season so thats when to really judge Ramirez IMO.

Well that then comes back to our committee's ability to sew up the right deal at the right time. If a lack of pre-season has been such a problem for the likes of Ramirez, then surely that would have been worth another £0.5-1m for the extra we'd have got out of him?

[Dig Dig]

If we want a benchmark of the perfect way to execute a summer's transfer activity, see Man Utd before the start of this season. We've been told all year not to judge Ramirez has he didn't have a pre-season with us, exactly one of the reasons we should have such deals sewn up asap.

 

I think being Manchester Utd helps in having the summer exactly as you want it. I wouldn't be against signing players as early as possible as the benefits are obvious but the reality for us and most teams in the league is that it's not really possible in the most part.

 

In our case, I can see us targetting players who will also be targets for bigger clubs than us. This in itself makes it difficult to get deals done early. The only way I can see us getting who we want when we want is to chuck more money at it than anyone else does.

[alpine_saint]

Well that then comes back to our committee's ability to sew up the right deal at the right time. If a lack of pre-season has been such a problem for the likes of Ramirez, then surely that would have been worth another £0.5-1m for the extra we'd have got out of him?

 

SPOT ON.

 

I aint convinced deals cant be closed quicker. I often suspect penny-pinching (or at least a fear of losing control of the situation) is behind the delay.

 

All this stuff about waiting to see if better players are available later is b*ll*cks.

 

As has been said, look at Manyoo. They decide who they want, and get them in immediately they can. Us failing to do the same just goes to show how relatively small-time in mindset we are and how far is really to go in making us a big club.

[Chewy]

SPOT ON.

 

I aint convinced deals cant be closed quicker. I often suspect penny-pinching (or at least a fear of losing control of the situation) is behind the delay.

 

All this stuff about waiting to see if better players are available later is b*ll*cks.

 

As has been said, look at Manyoo. They decide who they want, and get them in immediately they can. Us failing to do the same just goes to show how relatively small-time in mindset we are and how far is really to go in making us a big club.

 

Manure have failed in their target the last couple of years, being the champions league. We have succeeded in each of the last 3 (2 promotions and survival) so our transfer policy is more successful, surely?

[Verbal Kint]

If we want a benchmark of the perfect way to execute a summer's transfer activity, see Man Utd before the start of this season. We've been told all year not to judge Ramirez has he didn't have a pre-season with us, exactly one of the reasons we should have such deals sewn up asap.

 

Well that then comes back to our committee's ability to sew up the right deal at the right time. If a lack of pre-season has been such a problem for the likes of Ramirez, then surely that would have been worth another £0.5-1m for the extra we'd have got out of him?

 

It isn't that simple. If Man Utd are interested in a player, it's 99.9% likely that player will be desperate to sign for them. With the quality of player we are targeting, relative to our standing in the premier league, quality players won't sign for us instantly at the start of June. They want to take time weighing up their options and seeing if other clubs come in for them.

 

Nothing wrong with them thinking that way and it means at times we have to be patient and play a waiting game

[The Kraken]

So, could we summarise this thread as follows?

 

EVERYONE thinks we need to improve the squad and expects us to do so.

 

EVERYONE would like those signings to be made as early as possible in the close season.

 

EVERYONE EXCEPT ALPS accepts that you can't always bring players in as soon as you would like, and if they're not signed early in the window it is not necessarily the clubs fault.

Sounds reasonable enough. Although I'd say the way we got JRod shows that if you target a particular player and prioritise his signing as an absolute must, then it's more likely you'll get the deal done quickly. Albeit, the deal may cost more. Don't do that and the risk increases that it won't happen overnight; but the deal may be better for the club.

[Joensuu]

Sounds reasonable enough. Although I'd say the way we got JRod shows that if you target a particular player and prioritise his signing as an absolute must, then it's more likely you'll get the deal done quickly. Albeit, the deal may cost more. Don't do that and the risk increases that it won't happen overnight; but the deal may be better for the club.

 

Agree, although, I feel that the player you target has to also not be attracting interest from elsewhere. Otherwise, their current club will stall as they try to play the bidders against each other.

 

In otherwords, you can normally only swoop early in the window for players other clubs don't want. Which or course makes finding the 'right' player very difficult 'early' in the window.

[Sour Mash]

It isn't that simple. If Man Utd are interested in a player, it's 99.9% likely that player will be desperate to sign for them. With the quality of player we are targeting, relative to our standing in the premier league, quality players won't sign for us instantly at the start of June. They want to take time weighing up their options and seeing if other clubs come in for them.

 

Nothing wrong with them thinking that way and it means at times we have to be patient and play a waiting game

Not saying it's simple. But I would argue if we have to spend a bit more to get a deal sorted sooner, than surely that should be worth it? How many more points might we have gained this season if we'd started with a full-strength, settled side - that'd be worth its weight in gold.

[John Smith]

A team built largely in League 1 looks likely to scrape survival in the Premier League.

 

But make no mistakes, some massive re-building is called for, in fact is being screamed for.

 

We potentially need 3 or 4 defenders, possibly a winger, possibly a striker. And it needs to be quality. And on this occasion I would argue that it needs PL experience, rather than some cheapo foreign rabbit-out-of-the-hat.

 

I wonder how (and more importantly, when) we will start setting our stall out in the transfer market.

 

Last summer was a cluster-f*ck, but at least a partial explanation was inherent uncertainty over the managers position. We are now led to believe that NC has his man.

 

Lets see what happens...

 

Season 2009 to 2010 started season on -10 in League 1 after administration and new owners brought in without being able to impact on the squad a great deal.

 

Season 2012 to 2013, currently 13th in Premier League and almost certain to stay up.

 

Not sure what the problem is? I think this is one of the most amazing rise through the leagues this country has ever seen. Even when Man City did something similar, they went down again before being promoted again, think the same with Newcastle. Swansea are the real amazing team in this escapade, maybe we should follow their transfer policy? Seems to be proven, rather than the QPR type method that Alpine is eluding to.

 

Look, I know you need to bang this continuous drum Alpine, maybe because you see yourself as the pace setter for the transfer market, however, take a breath, a step back look at where we were and where we currently are. If these previous 3 or 4 seasons (to include the JPT), have not been the best youhave ever seen at Saints, then you are very old. I too remember 1984 as well as the Keegan years, but, barely recall '76 or the European '77 season. Therefore, for me, since 1980, I have not known 4 better back to back seasons, EVER! I am made up, really happy and I love the fact ML purchased this club. In fact, thinking about it now, has almost brought a tear to my eye, RIP ML, you will never be forgotten!

[Dig Dig]

Not saying it's simple. But I would argue if we have to spend a bit more to get a deal sorted sooner, than surely that should be worth it? How many more points might we have gained this season if we'd started with a full-strength, settled side - that'd be worth its weight in gold.

 

Depends what you define as a "bit more"? Especially as there are no gaurentees how well a player will fair once the season starts anyway.

 

If a player is worth 10M, how much would you say it's worth paying on top of that just to the get the player a bit earlier?

[a1ex2001]

This season is too close for comfort. We certainly can't go through next season with the same squad.

 

Which obviously we won't, the club have consistently invested over the last few years and will no doubt continue.

 

Everyone knows that realistically our aim this season was to avoid relegation and it looks like we will reasonably confortably I'm certainly not bricking it like I was back in the good old days of the great escapes.

 

Alpine likes his little attention seeking thread where he demands we sign dozen's of world class players the day the transfer window opens or he will write us off as failures! Every year he has been proved wrong but refuses to accept it and says we just keep getting lucky. He will spend all summer moaning about a lack of activity yet never point to a team who've done better than us or a player we should have signed that we actually ever had a chance of getting. In short he is nearly as boring and repetative as Darlek and just as irritating but plenty of people will still bit on his obvious troll.

[Saint Without a Halo]

We stated the aim of our club is to bring youth through and by developing youngsters! cant see that changing much, in fact a large number of our exisiting team have been blooded well in the premieir now and will only get better next year. Two to three additions is probably all we need and likely all we will get if we are to continue following our stated strategy!

[Sour Mash]

Depends what you define as a "bit more"? Especially as there are no gaurentees how well a player will fair once the season starts anyway.

 

If a player is worth 10M, how much would you say it's worth paying on top of that just to the get the player a bit earlier?

At a rough guess, another 10-20%. Would be worth it for them to complete a full pre-season as a squad. Plus, surely while these players are playing us off against other clubs, we'd be out trying to bring in other players that are actually keen to play for us? I didn't think we were a "QPR" and brought in the sort of player that moved to wherever was offering the most money.

[Sour Mash]

Which obviously we won't, the club have consistently invested over the last few years and will no doubt continue.

 

Everyone knows that realistically our aim this season was to avoid relegation

Not once has anyone associated with the club even suggested anything like that to be honest.

[UpweySaint]

While I imagine some of the delays are due to "penny pinching" (not the worst thing, nothing wrong with being financially prudent in the right situation) I would also imagine, such as in the case of Ramirez, there are other external factors.

 

With all the teams supposedly interested I cant imagine his agent pushing to get him signed asap while his club were playing the long game praying for a bidding war that never really materialised.

 

Not NC's biggest fan but he tends to have been effective and efficient in the transfer market to a point especially when you look at other teams. Did we sign every player we needed in the best manner over the summer? Nope. But we did assemble a decent squad and tick most of the boxes with some real bargains Clyne, Davis, Yoshida .. Rodriguez certainly looks like he might be value for money too!

[Asaint4ever]

I think alpine saint is a legend!

[Dig Dig]

At a rough guess, another 10-20%. Would be worth it for them to complete a full pre-season as a squad. Plus, surely while these players are playing us off against other clubs, we'd be out trying to bring in other players that are actually keen to play for us? I didn't think we were a "QPR" and brought in the sort of player that moved to wherever was offering the most money.

 

It's more than money though isn't it? If we are targetting players like Ramirez and Coutinho as two examples, as well as paying them what they can get at other clubs interested in them, we also have to sell the club to them and give them good enough reasons to join Saints when they could move to Liverpool or Spurs etc.

 

Also, why are you mentioning QPR? On the one hand, you say that we should pay over the market value for a player to ensure we get them earlier but then question why we would be targetting players who would only move because of the money on offer? Slightly confusing point to be honest. Either you feel that we should be paying more to get players in early or that we should want players to join us on our own merits , even if it means allowing time for players to consider all options.

[Pedro]

Apologies if someone has already mentioned it but Stan Collymore was commenting in the People yesterday about QPR and Reading, one spending loads and the other not and he mentioned Southampton doing it right. Didn't explain himself but I imagine his opinion is we made some sensible signings without breaking the bank but enough to retain our status.

[Supersubpuckett]

i kind of agree with alpine - we have no strength in depth and unless we want to face into a proper relegation scrap next year we need to buy in some talent.

 

with shaw and fox out who will play LB next week?

who is our back up striker - guly, mayuka?????

who have we got in reserve against morgan, davis and cork?

 

If the club want to genuinely challenge for a top 6 spot next year then we have to look beyond the academy in the short term.

[Dig Dig]

i kind of agree with alpine - we have no strength in depth and unless we want to face into a proper relegation scrap next year we need to buy in some talent.

 

with shaw and fox out who will play LB next week?

who is our back up striker - guly, mayuka?????

who have we got in reserve against morgan, davis and cork?

 

If the club want to genuinely challenge for a top 6 spot next year then we have to look beyond the academy in the short term.

 

None of those points are what this thread is really about.

 

You would be very hard pushed to find anyone who doesn't agree that we need to strengthen the squad in order to progress.

 

The accusation here is that the club are inadequate or incompetant when it comes to summer transfer activity.

Edited 29 April, 2013 by Dig Dig

[Sour Mash]

It's more than money though isn't it? If we are targetting players like Ramirez and Coutinho as two examples, as well as paying them what they can get at other clubs interested in them, we also have to sell the club to them and give them good enough reasons to join Saints when they could move to Liverpool or Spurs etc.

 

Also, why are you mentioning QPR? On the one hand, you say that we should pay over the market value for a player to ensure we get them earlier but then question why we would be targetting players who would only move because of the money on offer? Slightly confusing point to be honest. Either you feel that we should be paying more to get players in early or that we should want players to join us on our own merits , even if it means allowing time for players to consider all options.

My point is if we're trying to sign players that are hanging on for a better deal and are trying to play us off against other clubs for more money, those are the kind of players QPR would be going for and wouldn't suit us. If a player isn't buying into our ambition and ethos from the start, then surely we'd be better investing our resources elsewhere? How many times have we seen it stated on this forum that Ramirez would be much better after a full pre-season with us - surely if you're spending £12m on a player it's worth getting the timing right or you're wasting some of that money?

[VectisSaint]

SPOT ON.

I aint convinced deals cant be closed quicker. I often suspect penny-pinching (or at least a fear of losing control of the situation) is behind the delay.

All this stuff about waiting to see if better players are available later is b*ll*cks.

As has been said, look at Manyoo. They decide who they want, and get them in immediately they can. Us failing to do the same just goes to show how relatively small-time in mindset we are and how far is really to go in making us a big club.

Unfortunately this seems to sum up the lack of understanding of how the transfer system works and also ignores the real situation, especially last summer, just so Alpine can make a point that he cannot back up. The reality is that very few transfers take place before the end of June, because that is when contracts expire, this is just a simple fact. There are a few exceptions. Manure are not a model of how all other clubs work, firstly being Manure if they come calling then not many players turn them down, so they do have an advantage over many other clubs. Secondly they do not do all of their business early. Try to recall last summer when we had a new LB lined up to join and most people were very positive, Buttner was his name. All looked good until Manure came in very late in the day and nicked him from under our noses. Can't blame the guy, if you have no emotional ties to a club why would you sign for Saints instead of Manure? So we were left in a bit of an awkward situation, though not as bad as we thought because it was clear to those inside the club that Shaw was on the verge. Quite honestly it was probably a blessing in disguise not getting Buttner, would Shaw have broken through if Buttner had joined? Was Buttner really that good, Evra is still clear first choice at OT and if anything has been better this season, adding goals to his other qualities. OK, we got left with Danny Fox, but it was not really clear that he was so not up to PL standard. CB we signed Maya, who has turned out to be better than any of our other CBs. We should have signed one more CB, think that is clear and was at the time, but we addressed that in January by signing the Invisible Man, and as it turned out we have not needed him, as we have been quite fortunate with injuries/suspensions. The reality is that the only major issue we had was in the GK position, where we clearly ****ed up big time, relying on the stalwart KD and an untried, but clearly very talented kid from Argentina. Seems odd that our major weakness was GK, the one area that NA should have been most knowledgeable in. Our defensive weaknesses were cruelly exposed in the first 8 or so games, and we shipped goals for fun. But wait, then Jack Cork returned from injury, and bar a few exceptions, such as Saturday, our defence has become solid, especially when our first choice back 5 is available (Boruc, Clyne, Fonte, Maya & Shaw). We also did some early business, J-Rod came in before pre-season., so the model that Alpine peddles does not actually stack up in reality.

 

I think assuming we stay up there will be very little in the way of transfer activity until July (assuming we are not now destined to earn a place in the UEFA Noddy League through the Fair Play back door). Maybe one incoming. We will be looking to shift a dozen or so players during this period. We are probably looking for 4 or 5 new players, a GK, a CB, a LB and RB and a MF to give Cork/Morgan competition. oK maybe we need a striker as well assuming Lee doesn't come back and Mayuka continues to look like Bambi on Ice. I will be hugely surprised if more than one or two are signed, sealed and delivered before end July, good players just do not become available earlier. We will almost certainly see MP bring in one or two of his known quantities from Spain, and these may already be partly sorted.

 

We have proved that with a few exceptions once we got over the early season games when NA instilled a mindset into the players to over respect the opponents that we are able to compete with anyone in the PL on our day, and we have had top 10 results since that initial period of this season. We need a few reinforcements in order to push on and cement a top 10 finish next season, but things look very promising and I do not expect a huge number of new players over the summer.

[Sour Mash]

Unfortunately this seems to sum up the lack of understanding of how the transfer system works and also ignores the real situation, especially last summer, just so Alpine can make a point that he cannot back up. The reality is that very few transfers take place before the end of June, because that is when contracts expire, this is just a simple fact. There are a few exceptions. Manure are not a model of how all other clubs work, firstly being Manure if they come calling then not many players turn them down, so they do have an advantage over many other clubs. Secondly they do not do all of their business early. Try to recall last summer when we had a new LB lined up to join and most people were very positive, Buttner was his name. All looked good until Manure came in very late in the day and nicked him from under our noses. Can't blame the guy, if you have no emotional ties to a club why would you sign for Saints instead of Manure? So we were left in a bit of an awkward situation, though not as bad as we thought because it was clear to those inside the club that Shaw was on the verge. Quite honestly it was probably a blessing in disguise not getting Buttner, would Shaw have broken through if Buttner had joined? Was Buttner really that good, Evra is still clear first choice at OT and if anything has been better this season, adding goals to his other qualities. OK, we got left with Danny Fox, but it was not really clear that he was so not up to PL standard. CB we signed Maya, who has turned out to be better than any of our other CBs. We should have signed one more CB, think that is clear and was at the time, but we addressed that in January by signing the Invisible Man, and as it turned out we have not needed him, as we have been quite fortunate with injuries/suspensions. The reality is that the only major issue we had was in the GK position, where we clearly ****ed up big time, relying on the stalwart KD and an untried, but clearly very talented kid from Argentina. Seems odd that our major weakness was GK, the one area that NA should have been most knowledgeable in. Our defensive weaknesses were cruelly exposed in the first 8 or so games, and we shipped goals for fun. But wait, then Jack Cork returned from injury, and bar a few exceptions, such as Saturday, our defence has become solid, especially when our first choice back 5 is available (Boruc, Clyne, Fonte, Maya & Shaw). We also did some early business, J-Rod came in before pre-season., so the model that Alpine peddles does not actually stack up in reality.

 

I think assuming we stay up there will be very little in the way of transfer activity until July (assuming we are not now destined to earn a place in the UEFA Noddy League through the Fair Play back door). Maybe one incoming. We will be looking to shift a dozen or so players during this period. We are probably looking for 4 or 5 new players, a GK, a CB, a LB and RB and a MF to give Cork/Morgan competition. oK maybe we need a striker as well assuming Lee doesn't come back and Mayuka continues to look like Bambi on Ice. I will be hugely surprised if more than one or two are signed, sealed and delivered before end July, good players just do not become available earlier. We will almost certainly see MP bring in one or two of his known quantities from Spain, and these may already be partly sorted.

 

We have proved that with a few exceptions once we got over the early season games when NA instilled a mindset into the players to over respect the opponents that we are able to compete with anyone in the PL on our day, and we have had top 10 results since that initial period of this season. We need a few reinforcements in order to push on and cement a top 10 finish next season, but things look very promising and I do not expect a huge number of new players over the summer.

The reason most transfer activity doesn't happen until July isn't due to contracts expiring. Man Utd did all of their key transfer activities very early last summer. Yes it probably helps that they're Man Utd, but equally the size and scale of the deals they are negotiating would be more complex than ours and would have plenty of agent intrusion.

[View From The Top]

For all we know MP has already identified his targets and the deals are done. Like everyone I'd sooner the deals are done early so pre-season isn't wasted but it's not as if we the only club in the world looking for players and agents/clubs will always hang on for the best deal.

[Hamilton Saint]

It's deja vu - all over again!

[Dig Dig]

My point is if we're trying to sign players that are hanging on for a better deal and are trying to play us off against other clubs for more money, those are the kind of players QPR would be going for and wouldn't suit us. If a player isn't buying into our ambition and ethos from the start, then surely we'd be better investing our resources elsewhere? How many times have we seen it stated on this forum that Ramirez would be much better after a full pre-season with us - surely if you're spending £12m on a player it's worth getting the timing right or you're wasting some of that money?

 

It's not always about the money though. Players could hang on for a number of reasons other than money. It seems we do our homework on player attitude and motivations anyway which I'm sure limits our pool of potential condidates. In some cases, it's the clubs who are ones holding out to get the best deal possible. Personally I think it's worth playing the long game other wise we would have missed out on some v good players like Jack Cork.

 

In Ramirezs case, it's easy to say that lack of pre-season has impacted his season. I'm sure it has but how much I don't know. I think adapting to the culture and pace of the league is difficult despite pre-season.

[Dimond Geezer]

.

 

Lets see what happens...

 

As fans, that's about all we can do.

 

How about you address the issue ?

 

It's not for Tisspahars, or anyone else to address, of course we can state our opinions, but we can't do much else can we!

 

I haven't made it past the 3rd post on this topic yet, I wonder what other gems I've yet to unearth.

[Minsk]

As expected, AlpineTroll refuses to: state why the QPR transfer policy of last summer was so much better than the Saints one; name the players (with prem experience who aren't journeymen and are realistically within our reach to sign) that we should go for; acknowledge my offer of a donation to Saints in the Community should we be relegated this season; admit that actually our transfer policy of the past three seasons has been spot on as we have met all targets set (2 promotions and maintaining our premier league place).

[Saint Garrett]

I'm pretty sure we scout a player long term anyway. I doubt we'll just go after a player and get the first one in that position which is good enough. They need to fit into the personality of the squad (yes be young and hungry) and fit into the way we play.

[UpweySaint]

As expected, AlpineTroll refuses to: state why the QPR transfer policy of last summer was so much better than the Saints one; name the players (with prem experience who aren't journeymen and are realistically within our reach to sign) that we should go for; acknowledge my offer of a donation to Saints in the Community should we be relegated this season; admit that actually our transfer policy of the past three seasons has been spot on as we have met all targets set (2 promotions and maintaining our premier league place).

 

Good post, the troll should put up or shut up.

 

Though I would suggest our transfer policy has not been quite "spot on". It's been good and done the job but there have been a few quibbles for sure.

[Saint Benali]

A loss and the negatives are having their day. Must have been hard for them seeing as we had not lost for awhile.

So right back to being in trouble, slagging players off, bashing management and criticizing everything. Really? How I do enjoy reading those views because they are laughable.

 

We are 13th in the league, we have had a great season. We will not go down this year. We have played for the majority of the season good football. We have had some bad results too but that is football for you. You have to expect losses. To cry about them when they happen is stupid. If we lost week after week then it would be understandable but we haven't.

 

The summer we will add to the team just as we have every summer. Some will do well and some won't. There is no way to predict who will turn out good before hand. Everyone is a gamble.

 

But I have faith in this team, in this management and in this chairman. Maybe it is time a few of you started to enjoy where we are and how far we have come. There is nothing to be negative about at all.

[Smirking_Saint]

You would be hard pushed to find many people who didn't believe that there are positions which need strengthening. As with every summer transfer window, we will improve the squad.

 

The usual hysterical critics from a far will no doubt spend all summer telling us what we should be doing whilst also still bleating on about last summer where we actually did do enough solid business to secure our top flight status which was the main objective of the season.

 

People like Alpine bang on as usual about signing everyone early but we have done well worrying about bringing in the right players rather than signing someone as quick as possible. It's a nonsense argument which is raised every year. I remember in the summer, a few people pointing at Readings "excellent" early summer transfers and even McDermott was boasting about it as it they are a benchmark to aspire to. Most people ignored that most of their signings were not very good despite getting them in early.

 

This

 

Im certainly not saying that we are definately top 10 contenders, we are not, in fact I wouldhave torn your arm off had you offered me 17th. But to say we were poor in the TW is nonsense.

 

We are in the hangover of a v bad game, Clyne, Yoshi and Shaw are easilycapable IMO, especially when Cork and Morgan are fit and firing in front of them.

 

My point is still calid that Alps spouts this crap every TW and is consistantly proven to be thefool hereally is. I stand by what I have said all along that he is the most accomplished troll on here

[Lord Duckhunter]

We need a back up left back, and spend a bit of money on a Centre half that will walk straight into the team. I'm happy with one of Jose or Yoshida provided there's a top quality player beside them.

 

Not too concerned about Centre mid. Cork MS and SD with Ward-Prowse as back up is ok for me. Need a bit of pace out wide and a striker as Rickie isn't going to get any better at his age and there's been times he's struggled.

 

Other than that we evolution rather than revolution. The 3 sides coming up will struggle and Norwich, Wigan/Villa or Sunderland aren't going to get any better than us, and Fulham look like a side going over the hill to me.. I cant see WBA or Swansea being as strong next year, so provided Cortese is sensible we could be up around 9/10th ready to push on again.

[hypochondriac]

Why are people hung up on the specifics of the transfer window and not looking at the ultimate outcome? I was very annoyed last summer that we hadn't addressed the defence properly but actually it hasn't turned out too bad as we have achieved my target for the season.

[Saint Billy]

I have another idea.

 

Lets wait until the very last minute when all the clubs are vying for the same players and trying to beat the transfer deadline, there has got to be a bargain or two to be had.......................................................oh!

 

Agree with Alps, get your targets in early, either which way you are going to pay top dollar.

[Matthew Le God]

I'm certainly not saying that we are definately top 10 contenders, we are not.

 

At the beginning of May, with 3 games left we are 3 points away from 9th and 10th spot. How are we not "top 10 contenders"? We might not achieve it, but we are very close to it at a very late stage in the season, closer in points to 9th than we are to the relegation battle!

Edited 29 April, 2013 by Matthew Le God

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Why are people hung up on the specifics of the transfer window and not looking at the ultimate outcome? I was very annoyed last summer that we hadn't addressed the defence properly but actually it hasn't turned out too bad as we have achieved my target for the season.

 

How stupid of you to look at the bigger picture!

[cambsaint]

I would suggest that everyone knows that we need 2 top draw CBs, a LB & some real pace upfront/wide.

 

Completely agree with VFT. You cannot seriously expect an 18 yo to take the burden of an entire season in the Prem, so we need a LB, and possibly for similar reason a RB. An experienced FB who could coach our young but exceptionally promising backs may be leaving Everton- and he wants to coach and get into management.

One Good CB is a necessity and two would be nice. We are also desperately lacking in real pace, one pacey striker is essential and a good fast winger/mid-field would be good.

A pity Coutinho got away-he looked very good indeed last Saturday.

If we don't get any of the above I think we will struggle next year, if we got half we would survive and if all then a top half place.

However this years promotion candidates will probably struggle.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I dont think I have. We didnt do enough on our defence last season, I am wondering if the committee are now satisfied by the evidence of their own eyes.

 

What evidence is this? That we are closer to finishing in the top half at present than we are getting relegated?

 

Or that you are throwing another characteristic hissy-fit, about nothing?

 

Tell me, how did your prediction (mid-october), that Saints would be cut too far adrift by January to make any difference in the transfer window? Not that it was actually necessary in the end.

 

Also, if the club are so bad at recruiting, how is it this 'squad largely assembled in League 1' occurred? Magic? Luck? Coincidence? Or were the players signed?

 

Alpine_Troll is boring.

[melmacian_saint]

We need a left-footed CB to sign and Jos Hooiveld to be dispatched.

We need a LB to sign and Danny Fox to be dispatched.

 

After that I reckon a winger would do us good favour, some good competition for Lallana/Puncheon/Ramirez. Maybe that's Mayuka?

 

I don't know if our fringe clearance will mean we need to sign many more players, but I would expect our academy to be able to feature more in case of first-team shortcomings.

[Whitey Grandad]

What evidence is this? That we are closer to finishing in the top half at present than we are getting relegated?

 

Or that you are throwing another characteristic hissy-fit, about nothing?

 

Tell me, how did your prediction (mid-october), that Saints would be cut too far adrift by January to make any difference in the transfer window? Not that it was actually necessary in the end.

 

Also, if the club are so bad at recruiting, how is it this 'squad largely assembled in League 1' occurred? Magic? Luck? Coincidence? Or were the players signed?

 

Alpine_Troll is boring.

 

I would be inclined to wait until the season is over before we decide how successful it has been. At the very least, a few places difference amounts to quit a bit of prize money.

[VectisSaint]

We need a left-footed CB to sign and Jos Hooiveld to be dispatched.

We need a LB to sign and Danny Fox to be dispatched.

 

After that I reckon a winger would do us good favour, some good competition for Lallana/Puncheon/Ramirez. Maybe that's Mayuka?

 

I don't know if our fringe clearance will mean we need to sign many more players, but I would expect our academy to be able to feature more in case of first-team shortcomings.

Mayuka is not a winger.