What an interesting summer we are in for...

[Minty]

Well, its obvious we are not at the level of Swansea/West Brom as yet...

 

Well we beat Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool, but we're not 'at their level' either. One game does not define our ability. It certainly highlights our inconsistency and the fact that we have players who do not deliver consistently, and I fully agree we need to improve the squad. But one game, be it a win or a loss, should not be used to judge our relative position IMO.

[hypochondriac]

Well we beat Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool, but we're not 'at their level' either. One game does not define our ability. It certainly highlights our inconsistency and the fact that we have players who do not deliver consistently, and I fully agree we need to improve the squad. But one game, be it a win or a loss, should not be used to judge our relative position IMO.

 

Amen. The voice of reason as per.

[Reynoldson!!]

Superb trolling

[saintbob40]

A no.1 Centre back to win aerial duels who can play out of defence and doesn't have a triangular foot. A striker as good if not better (and certainly 5 years or more younger) than SRL (cost....gulp ). Ideally a full back who can play both sides and a right winger who is not a lazy bastard and tracks back.

[Joensuu]

Yep, everything is wonderful, 'cos we arent currently relegated

 

(I notice the juidicious use of "currently" - not that confident yet, are you ?)

 

Stop being daft. Everything IS wonderful, if not perfect. We are performing well in the top tier. We have a young squad; plenty of money; plenty of ambition. There is little to get negative about, but yet some of you still try to create issues, that franky are becomming less and less relevent as Cortese has slowly improved our club.

 

Yes we could do with one or two additions; but that's quite a distance from saying that we NEED them.

 

As for the 'juidicious use of "currently"' - I don't think I could be more confident that we will still be in the Premier League next season (barring mathematical certainty of course). The odds are ridiculously in our favour. I'd go as far to say that at 1250/1 or whatever the actual probability is, we almost have more chance of being relegated through a league points penalty out of the blue than we do through the remaining games. Anyone considering relegation this season as a serious possibility doesn't have a good grasp of probability, and should consider resitting their GSCE Maths.

[PhilippineSaint]

Good. You are satisfied with our season. So if we see a similar strategy for signings this summer that leads to a further progression (say mid table) would you not be satisfied then? You can constantly say what if in football and then you would never be satisfied. What if United had done a bit better and won the champions league this year? The fact is you had a target you wanted for saints for this season and they will probably achieve it. Lets be thankful for that instead of dealing in hypotheticals.

 

Of course he would not be satisfied with that.

 

According to the gospel of St Alpine

 

We should already be at the end of the 5 year plan and Champions league finalists.

 

This will only be achievable if the remainder of ML's estate is deeded to the club and spent on Prem quality players completely disregarding the services of the players that got them to the promised land in the first place.

 

and if they dont do it by the first friday that the Transfer Window opens there will be a plague of something visiting from Portsea Island as we plummet through the leagues over the next few seasons so that we can have a local derby again.

[dronskisaint]

Hillarious. Really, you are wasted, you should be in Variety.

 

Ramirez wont even be here at the end of the summer, imo.

 

Let's see who is accurate then....I trust you won't be standing by your record...the one that you dismissed when reiterated as 'Whatever...' Wrong is wrong, wrong is what you have consistently been over the last three seasons...'Whatever...' is a juvenile copout and I treat your endless pronouncements of doom as cheery portents of better things to come.

 

I'll give Variety a go if you promise me you'll check in to The Priory...your family will thank you as well as multiple SWF followers

[alpine_saint]

Alpine, how do you determine whether a transfer window has been a success?

 

Surely there is an intrinsic link between how the team ultimately fare and the squad put in place to achieve that relative position?

 

With that in mind then, what would you have considered a success and acceptable finish for this season at the outset?

 

Having considered all objectively if we ultimately finish around the top 10, the only reasonable grounds you would consider the transfer window a "cluster feck" is if you would have expected us after 2 consecutive promotions from league 1 to finish as European contenders???

 

Tell me I'm wrong Alpine?

 

...otherwise shut up and take a seat back down on to your stupid chair please.

 

Jesus, what drivel.

 

At the beginning of the season we didnt do enough to reinforce the defence. The events of the season have gone far beyond proving that.

 

Our attack has shown themselves to be up to the task, taking the lead in many games only to see the defence throw it away. The amount of points lost from leading positions tells a very important story.

 

So, we are on the verge of survival which is satisfying. But if we had made more effort with the defence at the beginning of the season, maybe the talk of Euro football qualification next season would have more of a realistic edge. Certainly we would have been near to top 8.

 

So, a couple of positions werent addressed correctly, hence the uncertainty to the end of this season and the slightly dreamy tone to the discussions for the target for next season, because we dont know how well the transfer activity will progress over the summer.

 

I never expected Euro football qualification this season (I think fair play qualification would have been too soon for us as well), but looking at how the season has progressed, it seems to me that more could have been achieved. I can be satisifed as well as critique what happened at the same time, cant I ? Why must I be happy-clappy and say "survival great, nothing else matters" ? Because if lessons arent learned from this season, there is a risk of struggle next season.

[hypochondriac]

I will go on record here to say that I will be happy to finish between 12th and 8th next season. As long as our transfer policy gets us to those positions then I don't care what we do. Will Alpine say similar?

[Bearsy]

Superb trolling

 

how come ur allowed exclamation marks in username! No-one told me! Justmikes sort this out please i want to be "Bearsy!"

[alpine_saint]

I will go on record here to say that I will be happy to finish between 12th and 8th next season. As long as our transfer policy gets us to those positions then I don't care what we do. Will Alpine say similar?

 

8th, yes, most likely. However, if we were top 5 and failure to address an issue in the transfer market caused us to drop, I would reserve my right to criticise still.

12th, probably not.

 

The club are aiming for Champions League, btw.

[hypochondriac]

Jesus, what drivel.

 

At the beginning of the season we didnt do enough to reinforce the defence. The events of the season have gone far beyond proving that

Yet we look likely to finish where you targeted us to. So our defence hasn't been that bad then.

 

Our attack has shown themselves to be up to the task, taking the lead in many games only to see the defence throw it away. The amount of points lost from leading positions tells a very important story.

Yet we haven't thrown away so many points that we are going to get relegated.

 

So, we are on the verge of survival which is satisfying. But if we had made more effort with the defence at the beginning of the season, maybe the talk of Euro football qualification next season would have more of a realistic edge. Certainly we would have been near to top 8.

I agree. What a satisfying season. Again though, you are dealing in what ifs. With any team anywhere ever you can do a what if scenario and wish a team has done better. What if United had won last night and then gone on to surpass the record points total? It's pointless dealing in what ifs as you will never be satisfied. Lets be happy that our target for the season has most likely been achieved.

 

So, a couple of positions werent addressed correctly, hence the uncertainty to the end of this season and the slightly dreamy tone to the discussions for the target for next season, because we dont know how well the transfer activity will progress over the summer.

We addressed it enough for us to stay up this year. You said that was good enough for you.

I never expected Euro football qualification this season (I think fair play qualification would have been too soon for us as well), but looking at how the season has progressed, it seems to me that more could have been achieved. I can be satisifed as well as critique what happened at the same time, cant I ? Why must I be happy-clappy and say "survival great, nothing else matters" ? Because if lessons arent learned from this season, there is a risk of struggle next season.[/quote

I don't think there is a risk of struggle next season. I think we will keep hold of our key players and will strengthen the areas that everyone knows needs strengthening.

[hypochondriac]

8th, yes, most likely. However, if we were top 5 and failure to address an issue in the transfer market caused us to drop, I would reserve my right to criticise still.

12th, probably not.

 

The club are aiming for Champions League, btw.

 

So you would be unhappy with a 12th placed finish next season?

[Saint Garrett]

8th, yes, most likely. However, if we were top 5 and failure to address an issue in the transfer market caused us to drop, I would reserve my right to criticise still.

12th, probably not.

 

The club are aiming for Champions League, btw.

 

I think thats the dream, but I wouldn't say the club is 'aiming' for it. I think they'd be quite happy with a top half finish next season, as would the majority of our fans.

[hypochondriac]

If the majority of our fans would be unhappy with 12th next year then I think some people are going to be quite disappointed personally.

[alpine_saint]

So you would be unhappy with a 12th placed finish next season?

 

I said probably not. Have you got a major malfunction ???

[Joensuu]

For the record:

 

9th or above - absolutely delighted

12th or above - happy

15th or above - satisfied

17th or above - dissapointed

18th or below - upset

 

Some will see that as lacking ambition, but I disagree. Progress is measured primarily on the results of the first team; but I think there are plenty of other relevent measures. For example, if we finish 14th, but win the youth FA cup, expand the academy, or release plans to add another 8000 seats to the Kingsland, I'd be more than happy with progress. Likewise I'd be upset if we finished, say 6th, having sold Staplewood, disbanded the academy and thrown the extra money on signing Joey Barton on £130k pw. Of course the first team is the real measure; but I'd rather see real progress, than the 'pompey 2008' model of throwing all the spare cash at the first team (and some), and using the first team results as the be all and end all.

[Smirking_Saint]

[alpine_saint]

Whatever abusive picture it is you are trying to show, it is blocked by my company filter so I am sorry to tell you that it hasnt had the desired effect..

[Miltonroader07]

yo yo alps! I reckon we've got a whole squad brimming with PL experience so i ain't too worried bout that!

 

We're a central defender short of good prem first team and bout 8 players short of a good prem squad! I'll have a word with NC next time i see him and find out how much dollar we got to spend!

 

The Bear is on the case................. I am happy !!!!

[Minty]

Alps - you appear to suggest in posts above that our attacking players are good enough, and that the only reason we're conceded goals and leads is because the defence are not good enough. Do you honestly think it is that simple? Goals are often conceded because of forward players not picking up their men at set-pieces, or by cheaply giving away possession further up the pitch. Goals are often scored because of the contribution of a defender to set up that attack. Do you honestly think it is as black and white as you appear to be making out?

[Bearsy]

Whatever abusive picture it is you are trying to show, it is blocked by my company filter so I am sorry to tell you that it hasnt had the desired effect..

 

it is picture of sadface cat and underneath it says "Soz 4 being so catty"

[hypochondriac]

I said probably not. Have you got a major malfunction ???

 

OK then you would probably not be happy with a 12th placed finish in our second season in the Premiership? I think some people expect a heck of a lot.

[alpine_saint]

Alps - you appear to suggest in posts above that our attacking players are good enough, and that the only reason we're conceded goals and leads is because the defence are not good enough. Do you honestly think it is that simple? Goals are often conceded because of forward players not picking up their men at set-pieces, or by cheaply giving away possession further up the pitch. Goals are often scored because of the contribution of a defender to set up that attack. Do you honestly think it is as black and white as you appear to be making out?

 

No, not really. For example, there is the argument that Lallana doesnt do enough to support/protect Fox. But generally speaking, the front line do their job.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Regardless of our transfer activity this summer, there are plenty of clubs who have more work than us to do. Just like our league position, it is all relative regardless of our performance in isolation.

 

Without going into a rant on transfers, our scouting network right now is huge - not just paid employees, but also our network of contacts. If we come out the other side of this summer with fan unrest at either numbers of transfers of quality of player it won't be for lack of trying from the club. Identifying talent is only the first 20% of the equation in a transfer.

[Matthew Le God]

No, not really. For example, there is the argument that Lallana doesnt do enough to support/protect Fox. .

 

This just highlights how little you know, Lallana played on the right vs WBA and wasn't in front of Fox.

[alpine_saint]

This just highlights how little you know, Lallana played on the right vs WBA and wasn't in front of Fox.

 

I was talking about over the course of the season.

[alpine_saint]

Regardless of our transfer activity this summer, there are plenty of clubs who have more work than us to do. Just like our league position, it is all relative regardless of our performance in isolation.

 

Without going into a rant on transfers, our scouting network right now is huge - not just paid employees, but also our network of contacts. If we come out the other side of this summer with fan unrest at either numbers of transfers of quality of player it won't be for lack of trying from the club. Identifying talent is only the first 20% of the equation in a transfer.

 

What will the reason be then ?

[Bearsy]

This just highlights how little you know, Lallana played on the right vs WBA and wasn't in front of Fox.

 

i was thinking bout that, how come there's no complaints bout Lallana not covering for Clyne at right back like there is when he is not covering for fox at left back?

 

There is no covering for fox anyway. Couple of times when they was attacking his side i noticed Fox shit his pants and cravenly retreat to 6 yard box and he left cork + rodriguez to defend the left back position FFS!

[alpine_saint]

i was thinking bout that, how come there's no complaints bout Lallana not covering for Clyne at right back like there is when he is not covering for fox at left back?

 

There is no covering for fox anyway. Couple of times when they was attacking his side i noticed Fox shit his pants and cravenly retreat to 6 yard box and he left cork + rodriguez to defend the left back position FFS!

 

I think it is clear to all that Fox isnt half the player that Clyne is. But according to Minty it must also be the fault of the forwards.

[Matthew Le God]

I was talking about over the course of the season.

 

Shaw has been the number one left back since the beginning of November and our form since the beginning of November is that of a top 8 side.

[alpine_saint]

Shaw has been the number one left back since the beginning of November and our form since the beginning of November is that of a top 8 side.

 

Right, so its down to Fox then, and not the fault of the forwards. Please inform Minty, and indicate that its not only me who sees it as "black-and-white"

[Matthew Le God]

Right, so its down to Fox then, and not the fault of the forwards. Please inform Minty, and indicate that its not only me who sees it as "black-and-white"

 

Yes, I think Fox is a liability and I also think Lallana covers his full back and works back well defensively be it Fox, Shaw or Clyne. I say that having been at every home game this season and a number of away games to make such a judgement. You...?

[Minty]

I think it is clear to all that Fox isnt half the player that Clyne is. But according to Minty it must also be the fault of the forwards.

 

Alps, did I actually say that? No. So why make up such things?

 

I am simply trying to highlight that we attack as a team, and we defend as a team.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

What will the reason be then ?

 

It could be any one of the following:

 

1. Means (transfer fee or wages)

2. Agents fees

3. Selling club don't have a replacement lined up

 

Where you can question recent transfer activity is:

 

1. Allocation of funds proportionately to perceived team need

2. Purchase of players with lack of experience in Premier League

3. Purchase of young players based on premise that whilst they get better (assuming they do) the club can continue maintain its Premier League status and push on.

 

At the start of the season it looked like the risk wasn't working but as the season has gone on the strategy has seemingly worked. That is not to say the club will entertain the same risks next season - we have the core of a team that is very promising (and performing well) and with some high profile signings to rubberstamp the desire to push on then it will make last summers work very satisfactory.

 

The absolute key is a better central defence (both in terms of defending and distribution with the ball) and more options in the final third (more power, more pace). I would expect both those areas to be addressed with established signings - assuming of course the deals can be done.

[Chewy]

Stop being daft. Everything IS wonderful, if not perfect. We are performing well in the top tier. We have a young squad; plenty of money; plenty of ambition. There is little to get negative about, but yet some of you still try to create issues, that franky are becomming less and less relevent as Cortese has slowly improved our club.

 

Yes we could do with one or two additions; but that's quite a distance from saying that we NEED them.

 

As for the 'juidicious use of "currently"' - I don't think I could be more confident that we will still be in the Premier League next season (barring mathematical certainty of course). The odds are ridiculously in our favour. I'd go as far to say that at 1250/1 or whatever the actual probability is, we almost have more chance of being relegated through a league points penalty out of the blue than we do through the remaining games. Anyone considering relegation this season as a serious possibility doesn't have a good grasp of probability, and should consider resitting their GSCE Maths.

 

The only thing I disagree with here is the phrase improved slowly. We were in league one on minus 10 points when the recent shoddy transfer policy was implemented. Jp trophy, 2 promotions and survival in the premier league (together with victories against the reigning league and european champions, possibly the highest points for saints in the last 8 or so years) would indicate to me we've had the best net transfer policy in English football in the last 4 years, aside from possibly citeh who spent about 100 million more. And I guess maybe Norwich.

 

On balance, if its a choice of leaving it to cortese or handing control to alpine, I think nc just about shades it. After all, he is not a fatuous, trolling cretin.

 

Oh, and the fox lallana combination has been used in a minority of games on the left this season. So you're not judging it over the season, are you?

[Dig Dig]

Why are you all pandering to the hysterics of a moron?

[paris]

Only one loanee coming in apparently as we need further funds for new car park at Staplewood .....

[Turkish]

I'm not sure why everyone is having a go at Alpine, he's right. Our centre backs aren't good enough, they got carved open time and time again on Saturday. Everyone is blaming Fox and whilst he wasn't great he was no worse than anyone else. We haven't any true wide players except Puncheon and we don't any real options up front except for Lambert, if he isn't playing well then we struggle. We've got a decent first XI when everyone is fit and on form but we have no depth beyond that and you can't go through a season with only eleven decent players relying on them to be in top form and fitness week in week out. We are in about the right position of lower midtable, we aren't relation fodder, we're too good for that, but neither are we a top 10 side, or even top 6 like some on here would have you believe.

 

I was sneered at for saying we wouldn't finish 10th and it seems I'm likely to be right, unfortuantely realism on here is dismissed as trolling or negativity with people indignant if its suggested we arent as good as people like to believe. The fact is were a newly promoted side and survival was always the priority and considered a success this season, we're in a decent place and should be pleased with where we are this season, but not kid ourselves that we are as good as some on here are claiming and there is still a lot of work to do yet if we are to get anywhere near the 'aim for the stars' mantra being trotted out every five minutes on here.

Edited 29 April, 2013 by Turkish

[Chewy]

Alpine is not right, he is a moron.

[Mr Saints]

This edition of the annual Alps transfer window meltdown is disappointing IMO.

 

I hope for a better installment in June.

[Dig Dig]

I'm not sure why everyone is having a go at Alpine, he's right. Our centre backs aren't good enough, they got carved open time and time again on Saturday. Everyone is blaming Fox and whilst he wasn't great he was no worse than anyone else. We haven't any true wide players except Puncheon and we don't any real options up front except for Lambert, if he isn't playing well then we struggle. We've got a decent first XI when everyone is fit and on form but we have no depth beyond that and you can't go through a season with only eleven decent players relying on them to be in top form and fitness week in week out. We are in about the right position of lower midtable, we aren't relation fodder, we're too good for that, but neither are we a top 10 side, or even top 6 like some on here would have you believe.

 

I was sneered at for saying we wouldn't finish 10th and it seems I'm likely to be right, unfortuantely realism on here is dismissed as trolling or negativity with people indignant if its suggested we arent as good as people like to believe. The fact is were a newly promoted side and survival was always the priority and considered a success this season, we're in a decent place and should be pleased with where we are this season, but not kid ourselves that we are as good as some on here are claiming and there is still a lot of work to do yet if we are to get anywhere near the 'aim for the stars' mantra being trotted out every five minutes on here.

 

 

You would be hard pushed to find many people who didn't believe that there are positions which need strengthening. As with every summer transfer window, we will improve the squad.

 

The usual hysterical critics from a far will no doubt spend all summer telling us what we should be doing whilst also still bleating on about last summer where we actually did do enough solid business to secure our top flight status which was the main objective of the season.

 

People like Alpine bang on as usual about signing everyone early but we have done well worrying about bringing in the right players rather than signing someone as quick as possible. It's a nonsense argument which is raised every year. I remember in the summer, a few people pointing at Readings "excellent" early summer transfers and even McDermott was boasting about it as it they are a benchmark to aspire to. Most people ignored that most of their signings were not very good despite getting them in early.

[Saint Garrett]

You would be hard pushed to find many people who didn't believe that there are positions which need strengthening. As with every summer transfer window, we will improve the squad.

 

The usual hysterical critics from a far will no doubt spend all summer telling us what we should be doing whilst also still bleating on about last summer where we actually did do enough solid business to secure our top flight status which was the main objective of the season.

 

People like Alpine bang on as usual about signing everyone early but we have done well worrying about bringing in the right players rather than signing someone as quick as possible. It's a nonsense argument which is raised every year. I remember in the summer, a few people pointing at Readings "excellent" early summer transfers and even McDermott was boasting about it as it they are a benchmark to aspire to. Most people ignored that most of their signings were not very good despite getting them in early.

 

Good post. Agree,

[aintforever]

If we are serious about progressing I would go for:

 

A top quality centre back, left back, holding mid, striker and wide player.

[alpine_saint]

You would be hard pushed to find many people who didn't believe that there are positions which need strengthening. As with every summer transfer window, we will improve the squad.

 

The usual hysterical critics from a far will no doubt spend all summer telling us what we should be doing whilst also still bleating on about last summer where we actually did do enough solid business to secure our top flight status which was the main objective of the season.

 

People like Alpine bang on as usual about signing everyone early but we have done well worrying about bringing in the right players rather than signing someone as quick as possible. It's a nonsense argument which is raised every year. I remember in the summer, a few people pointing at Readings "excellent" early summer transfers and even McDermott was boasting about it as it they are a benchmark to aspire to. Most people ignored that most of their signings were not very good despite getting them in early.

 

Here's a really left field idea.

 

Having watched the team all season, seen what goes right, what goes wrong, etc, and having had time to look at the rest of the game and determine who would fit why doesnt the management bring in the RIGHT players EARLY (as in, for a full pre-season) for once ? I havent advocated buying any old players, just for the sake of it, even once.

 

We've tried it your way - the pooving around into late August - every season, with imo somewhat patchy results.

[CWD]

Worth remembering also that next season the young players in the squad will have had an extra year of experience going into pre-season. Not necessarily saying there'll be a huge increase in their ability next season, but the likes of Jay Rod, Clyne, Shaw, Lallana, Yoshida, Cork etc will all be starting the season as established PL players and that can only improve their game.

 

A CB, LB, CM, Winger and a Striker and I'd be happy.

[jasoneuelllfanclub]

The team has done well on the whole obviously. Assuming there is no catastrophic set of results that conspire against us then we will be playing PL football next season which was always the main aim. However I am concerned that most teams will have worked us out next season and deploy tactics to stop us implementing our A game. Steve Clark tactics were spot on. It is clear to me if teams let us have the ball but keep a well drilled shape and line then we really struggle to create any meaningful chances which is maybe why we do better against the top teams or even away from home (of late). So to avoid that second season syndrome we need to invest in quality players that can adapt to change in tactics during a game. Under Adkins and now Pochettino there is seemingly no Plan B especially during games when things are going t1ts up.

 

Didnt help that some of our big guns played awful - Lambert, Lallana, JRod.

[Chewy]

If we are serious about progressing I would go for:

 

A top quality centre back, left back, holding mid, striker and wide player.

 

One minor detail aside, I think that's spot on. Clyne can play left back, and with targett being an apparently hot prospect I think it's a right back we need. Cover for cork and Spiderman is needed (as proved at the start of the season), jos needs replacing ( unless forren is up to it??), we need cover for srl, and some pace out wide. If Wigan do go down I'd love to get Kone, but he'll probably go elsewhere. Can't see much else to pinch from the bottom three (townsends great but will get games at spuds I'm sure and remy would be far too pricey).

[Dig Dig]

Here's a really left field idea.

 

Having watched the team all season, seen what goes right, what goes wrong, etc, and having had time to look at the rest of the game and determine who would fit why doesnt the management bring in the RIGHT players EARLY (as in, for a full pre-season) for once ? I havent advocated buying any old players, just for the sake of it, even once.

 

We've tried it your way - the pooving around into late August - every season, with imo somewhat patchy results.

 

We do bring some in early, some in late. Same as everyone else as it isn't about just signing anyone you want whenever you want. You play a longer game for some targets, just how it is.

 

As for "patchy results"....is this a joke? Back to back promotions plus safety in first season back to the Prem is not patchy. We couldn't have done much better really but you crack on.

[Chewy]

[quote=alpine_saint;

We've tried it your way - the pooving around into late August - every season, with imo somewhat patchy results.

 

Patchy results? Jp trophy and just missed play-offs with minus ten, promotion, another promotion, premier league survival. Seriously, aside from winning the championship this year and the fa cup every year, what more could you actually want from a club, its team, and therefore its transfer policy in that period?