Train like Borussia Dortmund

[Giordano]

Now this is something i like the look of! Saints surely would benefit from this at Staplewood...

 

http://www.corrieredellosport.it/video/curiosita/2013/04/25-63245/Il+segreto+del+Borussia%3F+La+macchina+sparapalloni

[Glasgow_Saint]

waste of money

[Monk]

Currently constructing a study on Germany's long term player development and due to be looking at Dortmund's bit of kit in July.

[sussexsaint]

Alternatively , pass the ball to another player

[The9]

I quite like the tech room they've got, the one thing football seems to lack compared to, say, American Football, is definite ratings and scores for player skills in the public domain. That kind of "test" helps give a benchmark for reaction and accuracy in a real-time environment and helps the move towards that.

 

I *want* to know percentage pass accuracy, speed and reactions against a standard benchmark, because the data out there at the moment is only for match environments and doesn't take gameplan and tactical considerations into account - eg we know Andy Carroll is good at winning the ball in the air and heading, but is he actually any good at passing ?

 

Obviously there are plenty of reasons clubs wouldn't want that data out there (especially in an uneven transfer market), but it doesn't seem to harm other professional sports to have the information available.

[Turkish]

Currently constructing a study on Germany's long term player development and due to be looking at Dortmund's bit of kit in July.

 

You're doing it in the right place, they look set to dominate international football for a few years. Loads of really good young players, I think evert midfielder and attacker in their last squad was under 25, with the exception of Podolski. They are saying Mario Gotze is the best talent for a generation.

[Matthew Le God]

Reminiscent of this...

 

[old_southy]

I would love to have a go on that! We should totally buy it if we want to get the most out of our youth and sharpen up a few players that have not had the luxury of our academy!

[The9]

You're doing it in the right place, they look set to dominate international football for a few years. Loads of really good young players, I think evert midfielder and attacker in their last squad was under 25, with the exception of Podolski. They are saying Mario Gotze is the best talent for a generation.

 

It's been coming since England first noticed it in 2010, 28_F. Even FourFourTwo were spouting about this generation 2 years ago. The issue, as with us, is keeping them.

[Pilchards]

That is an awesome bit of kit.

I'm a believer in this modern technology as I'm working on something that's going to be very good for martial arts.

[Smirking_Saint]

Its litte wonder that they are developing such young talent if they are embracing new techniques like this. Simply saying 'waste of money' or 'whats wrong with how we do it now' is so reminiscent of how we coach English kids.

 

When I was 18 and first got my badges I did a 'lot' of reading up about french, dutch, german etc coaching trchniques and took some philosophies and ideas to my then head coach. He wasnt having any of it and still wanted the kids to run around cones and kick balls in a goal. It got to a point he partnered me up with one of his v old coaches to ensure I coached 'that way'

 

It was part of the reason I quit (that and the knee injury)

 

Worth noting that my time with Saints they had started to embrace and look at new tech back then too which was refreshing.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

It looks brilliant.

 

Can only see that benefiting players, particularly young ones.

 

Would also love to have a go on that myself!

[Turkish]

Its litte wonder that they are developing such young talent if they are embracing new techniques like this. Simply saying 'waste of money' or 'whats wrong with how we do it now' is so reminiscent of how we coach English kids.

 

When I was 18 and first got my badges I did a 'lot' of reading up about french, dutch, german etc coaching trchniques and took some philosophies and ideas to my then head coach. He wasnt having any of it and still wanted the kids to run around cones and kick balls in a goal. It got to a point he partnered me up with one of his v old coaches to ensure I coached 'that way'

 

It was part of the reason I quit (that and the knee injury)

 

Worth noting that my time with Saints they had started to embrace and look at new tech back then too which was refreshing.

 

What would you say the main differences are between how English kids are coached and the other nations you mention?

[Bearsy]

as i understand it, at saints they spend most of their time with underpants on head having naked pillow fights

[KelvinsRightGlove]

What would you say the main differences are between how English kids are coached and the other nations you mention?

 

I used to do a bit of coaching, not a great level, just local teams.

 

The thing that frustrated me, is that parents of the kids were obsessed with their kids winning all the time. Not actually learning to play the game, or learning to be good technical players.

 

From what I understand, in places such as spain, players are taught the techniques first, and rarely play 11 a side before they reach their teens. Instead playing on smaller pitches, with less players. This way they have much more time on the ball, and are taught how to control the ball.

 

When we tried to get the kids we were training to do sessions where there no goals, and the ball was not allowed to leave the floor, we would have parents coming over and telling us we were clueless.

 

I'm not saying this is 100% of the problem, but it does seem part of it at least.

 

Would be interested to hear others thoughts too, as I say I didn't do a huge amount and what I did do was at a pretty low level.

[Monk]

Biggest problems in England are:

 

Play to win mentality at wrong ages, educate them game first, they have years to go and win leagues etc. learn the game first.

Coaches/parents are in it for their own personal gains

Children too afraid make mistakes (how else can you improve)

Coaches force the passing game too early when in fact players need ball familiarisation in younger ages and the skill to identify when to release/how to release/ do I run or do I pass?

Over coaching

6-11 year olds being labelled with positions when in fact they need to learn different aspects of the pitch, different overloads, responsibilities and goalkeepers being isolated as a speciality when in fact a goalkeeper this day and age is a sweeper so needs to learn the outfield game.

[Monk]

Also, parents do not like change 80% of the time, we are an Island with an Island mentality.

[Window Cleaner]

yesterday it was Barcelona, today it's Dortmund, unless you use your own systems you'll just be a pale imitiation of another side.

[Monk]

yesterday it was Barcelona, today it's Dortmund, unless you use your own systems you'll just be a pale imitiation of another side.

 

Understand your sentiment and this is where the FA are going wrong, what we should do is use other blueprints and then evolve it to our own. Frankly, it's a cultural thing too.

[buctootim]

Now this is something i like the look of! Saints surely would benefit from this at Staplewood...

 

http://www.corrieredellosport.it/video/curiosita/2013/04/25-63245/Il+segreto+del+Borussia%3F+La+macchina+sparapalloni

 

They've got one of those on Brighton Pier. £2 a go. You never win anything with that one either.

[The9]

Can I offer England v Hungary 1953 as evidence ?

[The9]

Actually, seeing as this seems an appropriate place for it, why did the FA get rid of Lilleshall/Bisham Abbey ? It seemed to be working pretty well. Was it the Prem clubs taking the power from the FA and trying to take control of player development - and if so, why (and how) has St George's Park come around ?

 

And what are the major differences in the two setups ?

[Smirking_Saint]

What would you say the main differences are between how English kids are coached and the other nations you mention?

 

Basically it was like kelvin said, having done coaching for what was at the time a reasonably large organisation locally, and also having seen how some of the other guys coach aswell. Basically any new ideas that I had, were met with not intrigue and acceptance but complete ignorance to what I 'thought' I could achieve. I coached under 5's, under 10's and under 13's. the problem with the younger age groups is that there is no tactical awareness, they all congregate around the ball, now you cant really sit a 4 yr old down and talk tactics so there are other ways to teach them without them knowing it etc.

 

Continentally as a group they believe in developing a player as they grow, I cant remember the age ranges but basically you teach balance, try to start getting them used to both feet as much as you can and get them to process passing at target based objects.

 

Then its technique with a bit of tactics, you dont want to train positional play yet, that is noticed as they grow and hopefully natural fall into their roles. They say, and I agree that first touch and technique is learnt but 14, no real advances will occur after that and any real talent depends, for me, on first touch etc.

 

Then you move up, positional play etc deeper tactical awareness.

 

That is basically what I remember, my head is filled by other crap these days, its a shame I enjoyed coaching.

[Turkish]

Basically it was like kelvin said, having done coaching for what was at the time a reasonably large organisation locally, and also having seen how some of the other guys coach aswell. Basically any new ideas that I had, were met with not intrigue and acceptance but complete ignorance to what I 'thought' I could achieve. I coached under 5's, under 10's and under 13's. the problem with the younger age groups is that there is no tactical awareness, they all congregate around the ball, now you cant really sit a 4 yr old down and talk tactics so there are other ways to teach them without them knowing it etc.

 

Continentally as a group they believe in developing a player as they grow, I cant remember the age ranges but basically you teach balance, try to start getting them used to both feet as much as you can and get them to process passing at target based objects.

 

Then its technique with a bit of tactics, you dont want to train positional play yet, that is noticed as they grow and hopefully natural fall into their roles. They say, and I agree that first touch and technique is learnt but 14, no real advances will occur after that and any real talent depends, for me, on first touch etc.

 

Then you move up, positional play etc deeper tactical awareness.

 

That is basically what I remember, my head is filled by other crap these days, its a shame I enjoyed coaching.

 

I'm not sure what its like these days but when I was a kid it was always the big, quick and strong lads that made all the school teams, the small ones with more skill didn't get a look in. It was all about 'getting rid of it' 'get it long' 'get stuck in' etc. training for my tyro league side usually was a lap of riverside park, dribbling round cones, sprinting and then a 7 a side game. I can only really remember one teacher doing anything with us about technique.

[The9]

I'm not sure what its like these days but when I was a kid it was always the big, quick and strong lads that made all the school teams, the small ones with more skill didn't get a look in. It was all about 'getting rid of it' 'get it long' 'get stuck in' etc. training for my tyro league side usually was a lap of riverside park, dribbling round cones, sprinting and then a 7 a side game. I can only really remember one teacher doing anything with us about technique.

 

Christ, I wish. We didn't even have a football pitch at my school (nor a rugby team using the pitch they did have, even more annoyingly). The FIRST organised training I had was at University, I'd been playing for over 10 years by then and the only organised training I had after that, ( until I got spotted), was a coaching course I paid to go on myself!

 

As for "biggest kid theory" This is a sample of local football for me as an under 14, I'm about half the size of the opposition centre back and we lost 16-0 to them (lost 7-2 this time, we'd played them the year before as 13 year olds and REALLY got thrashed) :

 

Edited 26 April, 2013 by The9