Sheaf Saint Posted 23 April, 2013 Posted 23 April, 2013 It's does amuse me how people like Bexy appear to hate our country and everyone associated with it, constantly coming on here and slagging it off for all the things it has done in the past and criticising those who proud to be English. Yet at the same time is happy to live here in a civilised country and enjoy the freedoms and rights that allow him/her to vent their fury at how disgraceful the nation is. You misunderstand the point I am making Turks. I do not hate this country at all. Indeed, I consider myself lucky to have been born in a country where I would get a half-decent state education and never know true poverty, unlike many billions of other people on this planet. But pride? No. Pride is something I reserve for myself only. If I achieve something that I have had to work hard for then that is something to be proud of. Likewise if I actively take part in a team effort to achieve something positive. But feeling pride in the dubious achievements of some people who, quite by chance, happened to be born to parents of the same nationality as I did... there is simply no rationality in that. To many people, like yourself, national pride is held up as some kind of positive influence, but in my opinion it is anything but. By declaring pride in your own nationality (as if you somehow had something to do with it - which you didn't) you are instantly excluding everybody outside of your group, as if your being British in some way makes you special. All you are actually doing is creating (or perpetuating) division, and this can be demonstrated throughout history. Millions of soldiers lost their lives in WW1 all because of the national pride of their ruling aristocrats.
PhilippineSaint Posted 23 April, 2013 Posted 23 April, 2013 Modern day IPA should be cellar temperature not cold but otherwise good call. Cellar temp is cold to me so he got it right
Sheaf Saint Posted 23 April, 2013 Posted 23 April, 2013 So you're not proud we beat the Nazis then? By 'we' you mean England? Technically 'we' didn't.
Sheaf Saint Posted 23 April, 2013 Posted 23 April, 2013 Just why should you feel ashamed of what your nation has done previously it was not you personally carried out these alleged heinous crimes was it? On this we are in complete agreement. Now apply the same logic to feeling pride in the actions of other people that you had nothing to do with. Doesn't make any rational sense does it.
PhilippineSaint Posted 23 April, 2013 Posted 23 April, 2013 By 'we' you mean England? Technically 'we' didn't. Technically we did, along with help from our allies who would also like to celebrate there national days be they July 4th, May 1st November 5th even. if your protestant English
Turkish Posted 23 April, 2013 Posted 23 April, 2013 You misunderstand the point I am making Turks. I do not hate this country at all. Indeed, I consider myself lucky to have been born in a country where I would get a half-decent state education and never know true poverty, unlike many billions of other people on this planet. But pride? No. Pride is something I reserve for myself only. If I achieve something that I have had to work hard for then that is something to be proud of. Likewise if I actively take part in a team effort to achieve something positive. But feeling pride in the dubious achievements of some people who, quite by chance, happened to be born to parents of the same nationality as I did... there is simply no rationality in that. To many people, like yourself, national pride is held up as some kind of positive influence, but in my opinion it is anything but. By declaring pride in your own nationality (as if you somehow had something to do with it - which you didn't) you are instantly excluding everybody outside of your group, as if your being British in some way makes you special. All you are actually doing is creating (or perpetuating) division, and this can be demonstrated throughout history. Millions of soldiers lost their lives in WW1 all because of the national pride of their ruling aristocrats. So you don't think the actions of the others in the past have any influence at all in enabling you to enjoy the lifestyle you do? It was all down to luck.
Sour Mash Posted 23 April, 2013 Posted 23 April, 2013 No, of course not. And this is precisely my point... Feeling guilty about the negative actions of people who happened to be born within the same arbitrarily-defined borders as you in the distant past is irrational and patently absurd, I think everybody would agree. Yet for some reason many people think it is perfectly OK to feel pride about the positive stuff, when in in fact it is just as irrational and absurd. It is not irrational or absurd at all? Are you proud of the football club you support and it's history? Are you proud of older members of your family and the things they have achieved?
Sheaf Saint Posted 23 April, 2013 Posted 23 April, 2013 So you don't think the actions of the others in the past have any influence at all in enabling you to enjoy the lifestyle you do? It was all down to luck. Of course I acknowledge the actions and sacrifices that enabled me to have the life I have, and as I already said I consider myself fortunate that I was born and brought up in such an environment when, by accident of birth, so many don't get that chance. But what has 'pride' got to do with that? Nothing.
Saint_clark Posted 23 April, 2013 Posted 23 April, 2013 There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is England. Sir Winston Churchill I find it amusing that people are trying to tell others what they should and shouldn't be proud of, especially considering what this country stands for (note - present tense. Not referring to what we used to do/believe hundreds of years ago).
Turkish Posted 23 April, 2013 Posted 23 April, 2013 I find it amusing that people are trying to tell others what they should and shouldn't be proud of, especially considering what this country stands for (note - present tense. Not referring to what we used to do/believe hundreds of years ago). I don't think they are are they? More questioning why its absurd and illogical to be proud to live in a country where we can express how much we hate it and everything it has ever done without being arrested and shot.
Saint_clark Posted 23 April, 2013 Posted 23 April, 2013 I don't think they are are they? More questioning why its absurd and illogical to be proud to live in a country where we can express how much we hate it and everything it has ever done without being arrested and shot. But by people saying it's absurd to be proud, they're also implying we shouldn't be proud.
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 23 April, 2013 Posted 23 April, 2013 Of course I acknowledge the actions and sacrifices that enabled me to have the life I have, and as I already said I consider myself fortunate that I was born and brought up in such an environment when, by accident of birth, so many don't get that chance. But what has 'pride' got to do with that? Nothing. If your Dad discovered a cure for cancer would you be proud of him?
PhilippineSaint Posted 23 April, 2013 Posted 23 April, 2013 If your Dad discovered a cure for cancer would you be proud of him? Bexy would if it was him that caused him to trip in the lab and the two petri dishes collided and from that the cure was discovered otherwise No
View From The Top Posted 23 April, 2013 Posted 23 April, 2013 Modern day IPA should be cellar temperature not cold but otherwise good call. Prefer mine ice cold, always been odd like that.
PhilippineSaint Posted 23 April, 2013 Posted 23 April, 2013 a lot of high horses being ridden today As there should be on our National day celebrate for gods sake its not a crime yet!
Barry Sanchez Posted 23 April, 2013 Posted 23 April, 2013 (edited) If people dont like this Country, what Country, place or area would they like to be in? Edited 23 April, 2013 by Barry Sanchez
mcjwills Posted 23 April, 2013 Posted 23 April, 2013 Why is it acceptable for Americans to be proud of their nationality, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, Australian et al... but when it comes to me, why should I be ashamed of being English. There is a saying that I stand by British by birth, English by the grace of God. That includes everyone of every ethnic origin that is proud to call themselves English. These lefty apologist that are ashamed of everything should remember England was the birth of the industrial revolution, the railways, the Magna Carta the document that laid the foundation for the freedom that many countries have. So sorry anybody that is insulting to the country I love and am proud of, have you opinions but keep them to yourselves.
trousers Posted 23 April, 2013 Posted 23 April, 2013 "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." Albert Einstein
Barry Sanchez Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." Albert Einstein There are many quotes about Nationalism, Einsteins "Nationalism" was religion.
Orange Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 I am saying that all those people getting all misty-eyed thinking about what a great nation England is, maybe ought to think about some downright disgusting things we've been a part of. Not that any of this stuff gets publicised (not really hard to see why). I could go on... Oh wind your neck in. Every coner of the globe arocities have been carried out through history.
dellboypete Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Modern day IPA should be cellar temperature not cold but otherwise good call. Our local had half price food and half price on St George related beers such as Bombardier and St Georges (Cottage Brewing) yesterday - so my lovely wife and I spent the early evening there celebrating. I can confirm that the food was excellent value for money and that the beer was served at the perfect temperature and beautifully kept.
JN9 Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 As there should be on our National day celebrate for gods sake its not a crime yet! Do people genuinely consider St George's Day our National day? I must admit that I didn't realise it was St Georges's Day until I saw the Google logo when I got into work yesterday... And I consider myself a patriot...
Griffo Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 I celebrated it, and I'm paying for it big time today. We live in the greatest country on earth. We have all won the lottery of life. Congratulations.
Barry Sanchez Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 I do chuckle when people question us celebrating our National day and yet see no issue at other National holidays abroad, I can only assume these sandal wearers never go anywhere as they surely would know and understand the thoughts of others abroad concerning their National day.
JN9 Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 I celebrated it, and I'm paying for it big time today. We live in the greatest country on earth. We have all won the lottery of life. Congratulations. How did you celebrate? With a couple of beers, that much is clear... But is it a day that you had been looking forward to? Did you have fellow revelers? Basically I'm interested to know if it is just as much part of the celebratory calendar as Christmas (assuming you celebrate Christmas). It passes me by every year with hardly a mentions... St Partick's on the other hand...
Barry Sanchez Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 How did you celebrate? With a couple of beers, that much is clear... But is it a day that you had been looking forward to? Did you have fellow revelers? Basically I'm interested to know if it is just as much part of the celebratory calendar as Christmas (assuming you celebrate Christmas). It passes me by every year with hardly a mentions... St Partick's on the other hand... Are you Irish?
Jonnyboy Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Saint George was a Turkish Muslim convert, probably didnt drink either.
CB Fry Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 I'm very proud of my country. And I'm even more proud that I don't come from or live in a Catholic country. For that reason, St George's Day can suck my co ck.
badgerx16 Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Saint George was a Turkish Muslim convert, probably didnt drink either. Islam started about 450 years after he was born, ( into a Greek Christian family ).
Sour Mash Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 How did you celebrate? With a couple of beers, that much is clear... But is it a day that you had been looking forward to? Did you have fellow revelers? Basically I'm interested to know if it is just as much part of the celebratory calendar as Christmas (assuming you celebrate Christmas). It passes me by every year with hardly a mentions... St Partick's on the other hand... If you're the sort of person that goes out to celebrate St Patricks day, that really does speak volumes.
norwaysaint Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 I do chuckle when people question us celebrating our National day and yet see no issue at other National holidays abroad, I can only assume these sandal wearers never go anywhere as they surely would know and understand the thoughts of others abroad concerning their National day. Is Saint George's Day our national day now then? I didn't know that, I thought we didn't have one. I don't really care who celebrates which day to be honest. "Sandal wearers" is a bit of a lazy insult though isn't it? Can you explain what it's supposed to mean? Is it the same as leftie tree hugger? Don't you find silly name calling a bit reductive? It's the sort of thing most people do when they're struggling to make their point, although to be honest, I did have trouble making sense of the last half of what you wrote. I asked you to point out where anybody called Norway "the country of inclusivity" earlier by the way, you must have missed it, could you point out where you read it as I'll correct it to say that the Norwegian national day is very inclusive, which as far as I can see is what I wrote. I'd definitely celebrate a British (or English) national day that worked the same way, that'd be great. They don't celebrate the national saint's day over here at all though, I doubt whether most of them know when it is, like many British people don't know when Saint George's Day is, it's a bit of a meaningless thing. I'm almost surprised the government haven't suggested setting up a national day, to build on the spirit seen during the Olympics.
Jonnyboy Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 I do chuckle when people question us celebrating our National day and yet see no issue at other National holidays abroad, I can only assume these sandal wearers never go anywhere as they surely would know and understand the thoughts of others abroad concerning their National day. As a wet hippy who considered moving to Oz, I very much enjoyed joining in with my Aussie friends in calling their national holiday Invasion Day (which is what it is). And I enjoyed ripping the p*ss (carefully, mind) out of the Thai King on various occasions. If St Georges Day is so important, why isn't it a bank holiday? If you want to get all nationalistic why not not just jerk off on the Queen's birthday every year.
Barry Sanchez Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Is Saint George's Day our national day now then? I didn't know that, I thought we didn't have one. I don't really care who celebrates which day to be honest. "Sandal wearers" is a bit of a lazy insult though isn't it? Can you explain what it's supposed to mean? Is it the same as leftie tree hugger? Don't you find silly name calling a bit reductive? It's the sort of thing most people do when they're struggling to make their point, although to be honest, I did have trouble making sense of the last half of what you wrote. I asked you to point out where anybody called Norway "the country of inclusivity" earlier by the way, you must have missed it, could you point out where you read it as I'll correct it to say that the Norwegian national day is very inclusive, which as far as I can see is what I wrote. I'd definitely celebrate a British (or English) national day that worked the same way, that'd be great. They don't celebrate the national saint's day over here at all though, I doubt whether most of them know when it is, like many British people don't know when Saint George's Day is, it's a bit of a meaningless thing. I'm almost surprised the government haven't suggested setting up a national day, to build on the spirit seen during the Olympics. Norway recently has had problems with inclusiveness has it not?
Barry Sanchez Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 As a wet hippy who considered moving to Oz, I very much enjoyed joining in with my Aussie friends in calling their national holiday Invasion Day (which is what it is). And I enjoyed ripping the p*ss (carefully, mind) out of the Thai King on various occasions. If St Georges Day is so important, why isn't it a bank holiday? If you want to get all nationalistic why not not just jerk off on the Queen's birthday every year. So invasion day as you call it is a bit of a laugh yet you resent a law abiding Englishman celebrating his national day? Hypocrite is the word.
norwaysaint Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Norway recently has had problems with inclusiveness has it not? What an odd post, you've quoted me, but not said anything relevant to its content. Again, have I said anywhere that Norway is "the country of inclusivity"? Only you have said anything along these lines. I haven't claimed Norway to be a Utopia, only praised the style of the national day. Come along Barry, don't be evasive. Have a little try at answering some of the things I actually said, or are you going to avoid it and revert to name calling again?
Barry Sanchez Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Norway is an extremely Conservative Country, what am I evading? There are extremists in Norway just as there are anywhere else.
Sour Mash Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Why would anyone not want to celebrate St George's Day?
Jonnyboy Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 So invasion day as you call it is a bit of a laugh yet you resent a law abiding Englishman celebrating his national day? Hypocrite is the word. I don't resent it, knock yourself out, it's you who resents the fact not everyone is that bothered about it.
Barry Sanchez Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 I don't resent it, knock yourself out, it's you who resents the fact not everyone is that bothered about it. I have lived in Australia and they are as nationalistic as it gets and yet thats seen as a positive, why cant ours? You not bothering about it matters not at all, thats your right and fully accepted, its your argument of not wanting one and also considering moving to a Country that outwardly displays their love of their Nation at every opportunity
Barry Sanchez Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Super Mikey Very funny but hardly the point I am making.
SuperMikey Posted 25 April, 2013 Posted 25 April, 2013 Super Mikey Very funny but hardly the point I am making. Don't worry, I didn't bother to read your posts before putting that video up. Just thought it would brighten the place up a bit.
JN9 Posted 25 April, 2013 Posted 25 April, 2013 If you're the sort of person that goes out to celebrate St Patricks day, that really does speak volumes. Sorry my post wasn't overly clear.... Although I'd be interested to know what celebrating St Patrick's Day would speak volumes about... I don't celebrate St Patrick's Day and (as another poster asked) I'm not Irish. The point I was trying to make (perhaps badly) is that (at least in my world) St George's Day isn't a big deal and I can't say that it is mentioned to me by others as something they celebrate... I was just (genuinely) interested in others celebrations on St George's Day. I'm not against a national day as such, in fact I'd quite like a day where us Brits could celebrate being British, I just don't think such a day exists... My point about St Patrick's Day is that I am much more aware of it as a national day, and yes I know its an Irish day, all I'm saying is that I am always much more aware of it (admittedly because of Guiness promotions) than I am of St George's Day (which is pretty much non existant as far as I can see)
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