Does anyone still hate Lowe?

[alpine_saint]

My point, as I suspect you also know, is that your assertion that it was Lowe's unique mismanagement that did for us only holds true if comparable teams had a different outcome. They didnt, they got relegated as well. Ergo something much bigger and wider than the 'Lowe effect' affected us - ie the rise of the rich mans plaything club.

 

 

I've read this thru a few times now, and on reflection see what you are driving at, but cannot agree.

 

I could list a number of events that lead to our downfall, but I am sure you know them as well as I.

 

Maybe other clubs chairmen made their own brand of f**k-ups too, and the supporters of those clubs think they are tossers too? Personally, I dont care either way - I support Saints.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Just as a slight side issue as we are talking about Lowe`s managerial

errors on a couple of posts.

 

How long will it be if the dutchmen mess up before Mr Hockaday

(is that his name) steps up to the plate in Gray/Wigley style?

[alpine_saint]

Just as a slight side issue as we are talking about Lowe`s managerial

errors on a couple of posts.

 

How long will it be if the dutchmen mess up before Mr Hockaday

(is that his name) steps up to the plate in Gray/Wigley style?

 

Ouch. That's a goodie...

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Ouch. That's a goodie...

 

I await the flack!!

[buctootim]

I've read this thru a few times now, and on reflection see what you are driving at, but cannot agree.

 

I could list a number of events that lead to our downfall, but I am sure you know them as well as I.

 

Maybe other clubs chairmen made their own brand of f**k-ups too, and the supporters of those clubs think they are tossers too? Personally, I dont care either way - I support Saints.

 

The same has happened in all kinds of sport in many countries. The days of the gallant little teams competing at the top level through their own resources has gone unfortunately. Money dictates league tables in most sports - from Formula 1 to American Football and beyond.

[CB Fry]

So you consider 10 management teams in as many years as conducive to maintaining a position in an increasingly competeitive league ? How many of these other teams you cite had to put up with as much executive incompetence ?

 

 

How about all of them? From Coventry to Bradford, from Sheffield Wednesday to Leicester, from QPR, Crystal Palace, Sheffield United to Derby County, Forest and Ipswich. Sheffield Wednesday were saddled with "executive incompetence" that saw 92 football fans lose their lives, but hey, Lowe spent money on a South American striker, so that's loads worse :rolleyes:

 

It's only small minded fools that think Saints are the centre of the universe that think we are somehow special because we got relegated. Once.

 

Well, we're not.

[Redondo Saint]

you can also include Sunderland.

 

It is only since a new consortium came in 2 yrs ago that they have been in the ascendancy.

[Redondo Saint]

Why is it that the only people who ever mention the class thing are the Lowe Luvvies, or Lowe's offspring as in you Scooby. I don't think anyone else ever mentions the class thing. What class is Lowe anyway, he is certainly not "upper class" if such thing still exists outside of the royal family circles? He is new money middle class I guess. But who gives a **** what class he is. Fact is he is an obnoxious, pompous idiot who is a failure when it comes to the financial side of runnig a football club, and who makes many bad decisions that have contributed to where we are now (he also makes some good decisions to be fair).

 

I do hate Lowe for what he has done to this Club in the past, and to respond to Buctootim, who says I have not met him? In any case why do you have to meet someone to know you dislike them, I never met Attila the Hun, but I know he was quite an unpleasant chap, likewise Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Mugabe and Margaret Thatcher. I clearly don't put these people in the same league as Lowe and don't equate what they did with what a second rate plc chairman does, but I do loathe the fact that he is still connected with this Club. But then again my dislike of Wilde is much stronger even than that of Lowe. And I don't like Crouch much either. I do however have a healthy respect for Andrew Cowen, and I am beginning to warm to Jan Poortvliet.

 

You have completely fallen in to the trap that Scooby has set!

However you clearly wrong to suggest only pro Lowe mention the 'class' thing.

 

I also think you have major issues and a complete lack of historical knowledge if you consider Margaret Thatcher in the same light as Hitler, Hussein and Mugabe.

 

Maybe you should support a club based on your love of the Chairman?

Shame Tony Blair doesn't have more time eh?

[alpine_saint]

How about all of them? From Coventry to Bradford, from Sheffield Wednesday to Leicester, from QPR, Crystal Palace, Sheffield United to Derby County, Forest and Ipswich. Sheffield Wednesday were saddled with "executive incompetence" that saw 92 football fans lose their lives, but hey, Lowe spent money on a South American striker, so that's loads worse :rolleyes:

 

It's only small minded fools that think Saints are the centre of the universe that think we are somehow special because we got relegated. Once.

 

Well, we're not.

 

My god, what is this drivel ? Those fans lost their lives because of West Yorkshire Police, not because of SWFC.

 

I used to consider you an eloquent, if somewhat disagreeable poster. Not any more.

[Professor]

I dont hate anyone but I dont like him at all and will not go to st mary's if he is in charge. I will go every game when he has gone though

Not a Saints fan then, so why bother with the Forum....

[Professor]

I think the trials and tribulations of Southampton FC are far too complicated for a certain type of fan so it is easy to use Lowe as a scapegoat.

Unfortunately that has degenerated into almost a form of hysteria to the extent that some fans now wish the club to do badly to re-inforce thier prejudices against Lowe.

Very bizzare.

Bizarre is a fair way to describe the anti-Lowe phenonomen. It is worthy of academic research if any research funding became available. The need for easy answers is very common but some other aspects appear to touch on the darker side of human nature. Some people express their 'dislike' in general terms, others look for a justifiable reason, and some 'invent' reasons, but without evidencial support. It does look like a psychiatrical condition, perhaps with an element of 'mob' mentatilty but it will fade for many people if the team do well as the need for a scapegoat will be less demanding.

[Wes Tender]

Bizarre is a fair way to describe the anti-Lowe phenonomen. It is worthy of academic research if any research funding became available. The need for easy answers is very common but some other aspects appear to touch on the darker side of human nature. Some people express their 'dislike' in general terms, others look for a justifiable reason, and some 'invent' reasons, but without evidencial support. It does look like a psychiatrical condition, perhaps with an element of 'mob' mentatilty but it will fade for many people if the team do well as the need for a scapegoat will be less demanding.

 

What a load of tosh. Worthy of academic research? Are you trying to make us believe that you are an academic and perhaps it is something you are capable of doing if you had the money by way of a grant? One thing is certain, if you were a professor, then I'd have to worry about the state of education in this country, as often your thought processes are full of holes.

 

If you knew anything about psychiatry, you'd know that the behaviour patterns expressed by the fans of this club are entirely normal and commensurate with those of most other clubs in our position and in most sports where there are tribal elements and in any event, there has been plenty of academic research into these phenomena already and I doubt that you or anybody else could bring up any fresh data peculiar to our position here.

 

The only thing that you've said that is reasonable is that the dislike felt towards Lowe and indeed Wilde, will fade following a string of good results. That does not mean that people will change to liking them, but they will attract less hostile reaction as long as there is a discernible improvement in our fortunes.

[corsacar saint]

I dislike the man with a passion. Not one ounce of humility in his body. The man is pompous, arrogant and aloof.

[buctootim]

I dislike the man with a passion. Not one ounce of humility in his body. The man is pompous, arrogant and aloof. IMO of course, not that I've ever met him. But I have read the Echo and know we got relegated coz Lowe fluffed the penalty or something, so I must be right about what hes like. Stands to reason.

...

[Victor]

You have completely fallen in to the trap that Scooby has set!

However you clearly wrong to suggest only pro Lowe mention the 'class' thing.

 

I also think you have major issues and a complete lack of historical knowledge if you consider Margaret Thatcher in the same light as Hitler, Hussein and Mugabe.

 

Maybe you should support a club based on your love of the Chairman?

Shame Tony Blair doesn't have more time eh?

 

You have misread the post, are being illogical or just blindly abusive, or something, but VectisSaint did not actually say he viewed his named villains in the same light - he merely pointed out that he did not need to meet any of them to know he disliked them.

 

You have the problem.

[CHILLIN]

Despite scooby being on his knees wherever Lowe goes, I dont hate Lowe so much anymore. I honestly think he is doing the best for the club when it is in a very bad situation. He has taken a risk with the youth policy but I can agree that it is a risk worth taking. I dont think we could save or make money with Crouch and Co at the helm. If dreams came true, the whole lot would be out and Richard Branson would be investing +£50 million tomorrow. Reality bites and all fans can do is support the effort made by club.

 

COYR

[offix]

Bizarre is a fair way to describe the anti-Lowe phenonomen. It is worthy of academic research if any research funding became available. The need for easy answers is very common but some other aspects appear to touch on the darker side of human nature. Some people express their 'dislike' in general terms, others look for a justifiable reason, and some 'invent' reasons, but without evidencial support. It does look like a psychiatrical condition, perhaps with an element of 'mob' mentatilty but it will fade for many people if the team do well as the need for a scapegoat will be less demanding.

 

I bought you a T-shirt:

[Redondo Saint]

You have misread the post, are being illogical or just blindly abusive, or something, but VectisSaint did not actually say he viewed his named villains in the same light - he merely pointed out that he did not need to meet any of them to know he disliked them.

 

You have the problem.

 

Nope, have not misread the post, been illogical or blindly abusive.

 

"I never met Attila the Hun, but I know he was quite an unpleasant chap, likewise Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Mugabe and Margaret Thatcher. I clearly don't put these people in the same league as Lowe and don't equate what they did with what a second rate plc chairman does"

 

As an Englishman I take offence to including MT in the same sentence as the others, even if used to illustrate someone's point. MT had those that were for her and against her, but she was never an unelected dictator.

[horanator]

The idea of people hating public figures they've never met amuses me.

 

Over analysis of throw away, over exaggerated phrases amuses me.

[Redondo Saint]

sometimes there are consequences in making throw away lines.

[ottery st mary]

I think Maggie could have played better than some of our powder puffs of recent years.

I also think the use of the handbag could be a useful addition to some of our players armoury.. oops didn't mean to mention those sort of things.no offence meant.

[CB Fry]

How about all of them? From Coventry to Bradford, from Sheffield Wednesday to Leicester, from QPR, Crystal Palace, Sheffield United to Derby County, Forest and Ipswich. Sheffield Wednesday were saddled with "executive incompetence" that saw 92 football fans lose their lives, but hey, Lowe spent money on a South American striker, so that's loads worse :rolleyes:

 

It's only small minded fools that think Saints are the centre of the universe that think we are somehow special because we got relegated. Once.

 

Well, we're not.

 

My god, what is this drivel ? Those fans lost their lives because of West Yorkshire Police, not because of SWFC.

 

I used to consider you an eloquent, if somewhat disagreeable poster. Not any more.

 

 

So its drivel to suggest the horribly contentious idea that other football clubs in the UK have suffered at the hands of shocking mismanagement by their executives? Is it really?

 

It's drivel to suggest that maybe, just maybe, the fans of every other football club in the UK aren't cheering the decisions of their chairmen and chief executives from the rooftops?

 

Is that drivel, or is the ****e you spout about how how hard done by we are and how we have suffered at the hands of britains most evillest man, like, ever, day in day out drivel? I f uc k ing wonder....:rolleyes:

 

As for Hillsborough. Try reading up on it before you accuse me of drivel. There are plenty of things the club could and should have done long before the disaster, and things the club are to blame for. Go and tell me about the ground's safety certificate and how up to date it was. Tell me about the crush barriers. Tell me about the registered capacities, and what those capacities should have been. Tell me about the barriers, exits and safety routes in place. Tell me if that is the responsibility of the Police or the responsibility of the executive of the club. Do you know about any of that? Do you f uc k.

 

Get over yourself and go and learn something before you start accusing me of drivel.

 

Anyone who reads your broken record on here has a pretty good grasp of what drivel is.

[scooby]

I dont hate anyone but I dont like him at all and will not go to st mary's if he is in charge. I will go every game when he has gone though

 

You are not a fan and are not welcome at the ground.

[Guest Hacienda]

I am not a fan.

 

I've corrected it for you.

[kipstryker]

You are not a fan and are not welcome at the ground.

 

Why?

[Windmill Arm 2]

Interesting to read the comments about the Derby and Pompey haters amongst the fanbase and yet the word hate seems to be an acceptable description of the feeling of many about Lowe, a fellow Saints fan....

 

Done to death.

[Windmill Arm 2]

The idea of people hating public figures they've never met amuses me.

 

Yeah, I'm Sure Pol Pot, Robert Mugabe, Osama Bin Laden, Charlie Manson, and the late Saddam Hussein were wonderfull people.

[Wes Tender]

You are not a fan and are not welcome at the ground.

 

I've met Roger and he is a fan, Scabby. And as he will go to some away matches, I suspect that will mean that he goes to more Saints matches than you, making him a better fan than you by your twisted logic.

[Professor]

You are not a fan and are not welcome at the ground.

I often agree with much of what you say, and people who stay away from a club's matches because of who holds the shares or is on the board are far short of being real supporters, but its not up to any of us to tell anyone else that they are not welcome at the ground. On the contrary, SFC needs as many people in the ground as possible, regardless of where they stand on the Lowe issue, as long as they don't create a negative atmosphere by verbal abuse.

[Guest Hacienda]

I often agree with much of what you say, and people who stay away from a club's matches because of who holds the shares or is on the board are far short of being real supporters, but its not up to any of us to tell anyone else that they are not welcome at the ground. On the contrary, SFC needs as many people in the ground as possible, regardless of where they stand on the Lowe issue, as long as they don't create a negative atmosphere by verbal abuse.

 

Have you been to a game yet this season?

[Guided Missile]

Yeah, I'm Sure Pol Pot, Robert Mugabe, Osama Bin Laden, Charlie Manson, and the late Saddam Hussein were wonderfull people.

So......you're suggesting that the reason you hate Lowe, despite never meeting him, is justified by the fact that you hate Pol Pot, Robert Mugabe, Osama Bin Laden, Charlie Manson, and the late Saddam Hussein, despite never meeting them.

 

It thus follows that you equate Lowe with Pol Pot, Robert Mugabe, Osama Bin Laden, Charlie Manson, and the late Saddam Hussein.

 

You need help or you will never thrive in normal society...

[Professor]

Have you been to a game yet this season?

Pre-season West Ham. Why? Whats the relevance? Or are you offering to pay for me on Saturday?

[Guided Missile]

Pre-season West Ham. Why? Whats the relevance? Or are you offering to pay for me on Saturday?

I'd not enter into a "better fan than you" competition with Hacienda, if I was you, Prof. He goes to all Saints away games and no home games, despite being a Villa fan.

[wightman35]

I read somehere the comment, "Hatred does more damage to the hater than it does to the hated." Any Brum fan looking in to this thread must be laughing at the thought their team will have an easy win against a team with a very divided "fanbase" so the atmosphere is not going to be hostile to them. The Brum official site quotes a confident McLeash as saying he expects a win on Saturday. Our emotions and efforts ought to be on doing our best to help the players and manager give the Blues a rude awakening and a blue feeling on their way back North!

[Guest Hacienda]

Pre-season West Ham. Why? Whats the relevance? Or are you offering to pay for me on Saturday?

 

Well some of the "lesser" fans that you refer to, who won't go to SMS this season with Lowe at the helm, have already been to 1 league game and 1 fizzy pop game (not me I hasten to add) as well as a number of the pre-season games.

 

I'd suggest your "not real supporters" are actually better supporters to you if you're going to judge them on whether they attend games or not.

 

Views on Lowe and methods of support may vary but I believe that underneath, we are all SFC fans.

[Guest Hacienda]

drivel

 

New messageboard, new season, same tedious, small minded GM.

[Windmill Arm 2]

So......you're suggesting that the reason you hate Lowe, despite never meeting him, is justified by the fact that you hate Pol Pot, Robert Mugabe, Osama Bin Laden, Charlie Manson, and the late Saddam Hussein, despite never meeting them.

 

It thus follows that you equate Lowe with Pol Pot, Robert Mugabe, Osama Bin Laden, Charlie Manson, and the late Saddam Hussein.

 

You need help or you will never thrive in normal society...

 

Where does it say I HATE LOWE?

[saintwarwick]

Yeah, I'm Sure Pol Pot, Robert Mugabe, Osama Bin Laden, Charlie Manson, and the late Saddam Hussein were wonderfull people.

 

If you are putting Lowe in the same bracket as these evil people then your tanky brain must be working overtime.

[rocknrollman no2]

I dont hate Lowe,because ive never met him.

But i hate what he stands for at Saints......failure and selling what ever talent we have left at the first oportunity,rather than trying to get us back into the Premiership.

[Guided Missile]

Where does it say I HATE LOWE?

The idea of people hating public figures they've never met amuses me.

Yeah, I'm Sure Pol Pot, Robert Mugabe, Osama Bin Laden, Charlie Manson, and the late Saddam Hussein were wonderfull people

Read the above carefully, wipe the dribble from your chin and then read it again.

I was taking a wild guess that you were trying to justify hating people you have never met and this thread was about hating Lowe.

Then again, it was probably a random set of keystrokes, as you were trying to access the "Re-integration into society for ex-squaddies" self-help website....

[saintwarwick]

I dont hate Lowe,because ive never met him.

But i hate what he stands for at Saints......failure and selling what ever talent we have left at the first oportunity,rather than trying to get us back into the Premiership.

 

And what if he has been told to cut costs by the bank which means we have to sell/loan out our high earners? I'm sure if Crouch was still in charge the exact same would be happening.

[saintwarwick]

Read the above carefully, wipe the dribble from your chin and then read it again.

I was taking a wild guess that you were trying to justify hating people you have never met and this thread was about hating Lowe.

Then again, it was probably a random set of keystrokes, as you were trying to access the "Re-integration into society for ex-squaddies" self-help website....

 

Excuse me I'm an ex squaddie.

[Professor]

I dont hate Lowe,because ive never met him.

But i hate what he stands for at Saints......failure and selling what ever talent we have left at the first oportunity,rather than trying to get us back into the Premiership.

What is the evidence of the club voluntarily selling young talent?

Walcott was sold reluctantly because he could have walked out and gone to Tribunal which would have set a lower fee. Bale was sold after Lowe was no longer on the Board. Fact is no club can hold on to players who can see big money elsewhere and who decide they want to move on.

[Guided Missile]

Excuse me I'm an ex squaddie.

....and you seem to have re-integrated very successfully...

[rocknrollman no2]

I think its a bit rich that Lowe is telling us that costs have to be cut and hes the only man who can do it,when hes one of the main reasons we are in this mess.

What Lowe should have done was to try to cut our cloth accordingly in our first relegated season,but instead we had SCW and we let a lot of our players go for next to nothing,eventhough some of the same players were later sold on for decent money.

Lowe only came back here for his own reasons,nothing to do with Saints.

[Mole1]

I often agree with much of what you say, and people who stay away from a club's matches because of who holds the shares or is on the board are far short of being real supporters, but its not up to any of us to tell anyone else that they are not welcome at the ground. On the contrary, SFC needs as many people in the ground as possible, regardless of where they stand on the Lowe issue, as long as they don't create a negative atmosphere by verbal abuse.

 

I'd hardly call booing Lowe a negative attitude.

[cambsaint]

Scooby:

I cannot accept that the hundreds or probably thousands of fans who consider Lowe's mis-management of the club that undoubtedly led to our relegation as execrable, incompetent and laughable, and as a result are antipathetic towards him are so because we are all working class; this is clearly an asinine statement.

 

Professor:

Your quasi-erudite and specious argument that the strong emotions that Lowe has engendered in many fans is bizarre doesn't bear serious analysis.

 

While I am perfectly prepared to believe that several fans may dislike him because of his class and money, most if not all Chairman have greater resources than Lowe and many are liked.

 

The Cobbolds at Ipswich were not dissimilar to Lowe in background but well liked by Ipswich supporters, the old Saints board pre-Lowe were certainly not working class but not disliked, the majority of the Arsenal board are strictly old school tie and aren't disliked.

 

Perhaps the fact that he clearly has no empathy with football at all and viewed it as a way to get rich quick and become a minor celebrity has more to do with their feelings.

 

However the fact is that after relegation due to Lowe's football mis-management and the financial recklessness under Wilde, and the laisser-faire policy of Crouch the club is now in very severe financial difficulties. The most amazing fact is that a majority of the shareholders actually have confidence in the ability of the two men most responsible for the club's present position to rescue them from financial meltdown.

 

No the logical reason for the antipathy that Lowe has created is due partly to his gross incompetence post 2004 leading to relegation and his courting of the publicity that his brief period of success under Strachan gave him.

 

It probably doesn't help either that he turns up to football matches in garb more suited to a point to point or polo meeting and manages to provide a cartoon-like charicature of a 'Pythonesque' upper class twit.

 

Cambsaint

[sadoldgit]

I dont hate Lowe,because ive never met him.

But i hate what he stands for at Saints......failure and selling what ever talent we have left at the first oportunity,rather than trying to get us back into the Premiership.

 

 

Not really entirely true is it?

[tiger]

I read with interest on another thread written by a fan who met JP at Exeter that even Poortvliet is worried Lowe will sell some of our youngsters behind his back. Doesn't sound like a healthy relationship to me.

[Wes Tender]

Quote:Originally Posted by buctootim

The idea of people hating public figures they've never met amuses me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windmill Arm 2

Yeah, I'm Sure Pol Pot, Robert Mugabe, Osama Bin Laden, Charlie Manson, and the late Saddam Hussein were wonderfull people

Originally Posted by Windmill Arm 2

 

:Where does it say I HATE LOWE?

Quote Misguided Missile:

Read the above carefully, wipe the dribble from your chin and then read it again.

I was taking a wild guess that you were trying to justify hating people you have never met and this thread was about hating Lowe.

Then again, it was probably a random set of keystrokes, as you were trying to access the "Re-integration into society for ex-squaddies" self-help website....

 

Yes, exactly; a wild guess. Definitely a misguided missile and far wide of the mark, having no substance enabling any reasonably intelligent person to make the leap of reasoning that you did. You must be slipping. A bad case of two and two making five in your mind.