pap Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 http://news.yahoo.com/mother-accused-bombers-faces-her-015923054.html Ah, nice family then Good hit piece. Puffs up the Muslim angle and makes big of the mother's shoplifting charge.
Viking Warrior Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Pap do you have any respect for the dead or injured in this attack . You have not even acknowledged that over 170 were injured or killed . Talk of distorting the facts . I think you should have gone to spec savers
Verbal Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Pap do you have any respect for the dead or injured in this attack . You have not even acknowledged that over 170 were injured or killed . Talk of distorting the facts . I think you should have gone to spec savers He won't answer you, VW, because he'll end up saying something that even he, deep down, might acknowledge is utterly crass. How can you have respect for the dead and injured when there were no dead and injured? They were all "crisis actors"; the whole thing was a set-up; and the Tsarnaevs were patsies. You're right to wonder about how it's possible to be so uninterested in the terrible consequences for these people. I would have thought that no one who's seen the awful pictures of Jeff Bauman and the others immediately after the bomb would be other than shocked and moved by their awful plight. But then I would have thought wrong: there were some keyboard warriors whose psyches seem to have become so warped that they look at human suffering with little more than a dismissive snarl. Remember that Tamerlan Tsarneav was also a conspiracy theorist.
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 didn't this mysterious guy that say it was all linked to reloading powder, who is being used as 'proof', say that the bombs, and injuries were real?
Dig Dig Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Is he f**k. He's doing what he normally does, well written strawman boll*cks. He addresses, and then immediately dismisses, the 20 year campaign of terror and murder carried out on civilian populations in Italy. It's not relevant, he says. Most of the rest of his overlong and w4nky post is little more than an attack, or an attempt to lump me in with the American right and anti-Semites. It's pathetic, but works on some people, apparently. To be fair pap, I think Verbal has summed up your performance on this thread very well. Your aggressive and ill thought out replies only serve to highlight this. At the end of the day, an attrocity has happened and within a few hours you had started a rather confused and dis-organised conspiracy argument, whilst dismissing the often more informed views of others with distain and irrelevant nonsense about internet identities etc. It's not open minded to immediately go looking for a Government conspiracy in aftermath of such events, despite what you may think.
pap Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 I have sympathy for the families of anyone who loses someone. Respect for the dead is actually a tough one. For starters, the law makes no provisions. You can't libel the dead, for example. Also, where do you draw the line? Do you respect the older Tsarneav, because he is dead?
Micky Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 To be fair pap, I think Verbal has summed up your performance on this thread very well. Your aggressive and ill thought out replies only serve to highlight this. At the end of the day, an attrocity has happened and within a few hours you had started a rather confused and dis-organised conspiracy argument, whilst dismissing the often more informed views of others with distain and irrelevant nonsense about internet identities etc. It's not open minded to immediately go looking for a Government conspiracy in aftermath of such events, despite what you may think. Amen. Just amen.
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 (edited) To be fair pap, I think Verbal has summed up your performance on this thread very well. Your aggressive and ill thought out replies only serve to highlight this. At the end of the day, an attrocity has happened and within a few hours you had started a rather confused and dis-organised conspiracy argument, whilst dismissing the often more informed views of others with distain and irrelevant nonsense about internet identities etc. It's not open minded to immediately go looking for a Government conspiracy in aftermath of such events, despite what you may think. Verbal seems to forget that he was suggesting that it was a Columbine style attack and that it was a conspiracy by the 'Republican Right' to suggest that it was a terrorist attack motivated by Islam. I think he is wide of the mark as are Pap's theories but I don't think they warranted such an outraged and angry attack. Pap is a likeable lefty and often comes up with interesting slants. Edited 24 April, 2013 by Sergei Gotsmanov
Dig Dig Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Verbal seems to forget that he was suggesting that it was a Columbine style attack and that it was a conspiracy by the 'Republican Right' to suggest that it was a terrorist attack motivated by Islam. Well it seems more evident now that this wasn't an attack with the strings being pulled from a far via any Islamist group or affliated Nation. Whilst Islam may have been a driver, the marginalisation and failure to integrate in the community around you could be considered more similar to a Columbine style attack over a 9/11.
Lord Duckhunter Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Pap is a likeable lefty and often comes up with interesting slants. But he's making a fool of himself on this thread.
hypochondriac Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 But he's making a fool of himself on this thread. Yep. As I said though I don't think he believes it he is just saying it for effect. I'm not sure if that's worse somehow...
Verbal Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 I have sympathy for the families of anyone who loses someone. Respect for the dead is actually a tough one. For starters, the law makes no provisions. You can't libel the dead, for example. Also, where do you draw the line? Do you respect the older Tsarneav, because he is dead? That’s not what VW asked you and you damn well know it. He asked you whether you had any respect at all for the victims – the dead and the injured – of the Boston bombings. Your evasive answer is little short of disgusting. The only “victim” you can bring yourself to mention – in a way that I, at least, find highly disturbing – is Tamerlan Tsarneav. I’m going to try once more to get some answers from you to three simple questions: 1. Can you provide just one single instance – just one! – of a documented ‘false flag’ operation directed by US authorities at innocent US civilians on US soil? You have plenty of ammunition, potentially, if you care to look. You’re ignorant about such things, as you clearly believe, bizarrely, that the US post 9/11 is as bad as it’s been for civil liberties. So I’ll help you: try reading the Church Committee report, commissioned in the disastrous aftermath of the Nixon administration, Watergate and Vietnam. The FBI under J Edgar Hoover was among the worst offenders in trampling people’s civil rights. Despite all this, I challenge you to find anywhere the kind of ‘false flag’ outrages you appear to believe happens almost routinely in the US. 2. Are you anti-Semitic? I have to ask this bluntly, because I’ve asked you twice now without a response. The reason I ask is that you posted one link in particular, which you appear to set great store by, which contains some viciously anti-Semitic sentiments. Furthermore, anti-Semitism is the prototypical conspiracy theory, so it’s no surprise that it finds its way repeatedly into conspiracy claims about public tragedies in the US. Is this the kind of thing you believe in? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion 3. Do you still believe that Jeff Bauman is Lt. Nick Vogt? And that Vogt/Bauman is a “crisis actor”? If you do, have the courage of your pathetic convictions and write directly to both families about your accusations. They are both easy to contact, and can equally easily be emailed. If you wish to withdraw your earlier, sickening suggestion that Bauman was play-acting, please do make a donation and an apology to the link I provided earlier. Here it is again: http://www.gofundme.com/BucksforBauman On the subject of Marshall Law, I notice you made this quite dreadful post a little earlier. Oh, and one more thing. I have plenty of experience with "Marshall Law", thanks. Played Tekken 2 extensively during 96-97. You were posing earlier in the thread about your ‘concern’ about the slide into marshall law – but that was just an act, wasn’t it? From your latest post, you have as much understanding of marshall law as a tree. Let me help you out with some personal experiences. When I was in Syria, I stayed at a hotel called the Sham Palace in Hama. The place was empty and had the atmosphere of a darkened morgue. I asked a Syrian the next day what the story was with the hotel. He told me (somewhat nervously) that underneath the hotel was a vast mass grave containing all the victims of the 1982 uprising against Assad. As an act of revenge, Assad insisted on building a luxury hotel on top of the bodies as an enduring insult to the families of those who dared question his authority. There were up to 30,000 bodies – as many people as would fit into St Mary’s – buried in the foundations of the hotel. Just outside a rundown hotel in Dili, East Timor, and while the Indonesians were still maintaining their iron grip on the (half of an) island, was a quay. I’d already been warned about its backstory, and was told to be circumspect while the Indonesian military lurked nearby. Just after the Indonesians invaded in 1975, they lined up key Timorese figures – magistrates, judges, politicians – and ordered them to sit on the wall of the quay. They were then shot in the back, on by one. The single gunshots were not designed to kill them but to propel them into the water, where they were torn apart by sharks. I wonder how these two examples compare with yours on Tekken 2? And would you accept that the one-day lockdown in Boston was hardly comparable? Anyway – three simple questions. Can I have three simple answers please? And if they could display a modicum of maturity, that would be great. Many thanks.
pap Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 I am at work, and behind a large firewall. I will answer all three of your questions later. In the meantime, Marshall Law is a Tekken character. Martial law is what you meant, dumbass.
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Well it seems more evident now that this wasn't an attack with the strings being pulled from a far via any Islamist group or affliated Nation. Whilst Islam may have been a driver, the marginalisation and failure to integrate in the community around you could be considered more similar to a Columbine style attack over a 9/11. As I understand it Al Qaeda is pretty disjointed, people get radicalised and then do there own thing. It is the umbrella, nobody reports into a chap with a big beard in Somalia. That is why it is so difficult to predict attacks. In my opinion it is likely that the elder brother got radicalised on the Internet and then roped is poor brother in. Radical Islam was the driver not a couple of college kids who felt their fellow students saw them as drop outs. These are all how I see it but I may well be wrong.
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 (edited) But he's making a fool of himself on this thread. Sometimes you have to admit that you are likely to be wrong! I think Verbal is making more of a fool than Pap for the sheer level of venom and self righteousness in his attacks. Edited 24 April, 2013 by Sergei Gotsmanov
Crab Lungs Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Ammunition reload for pap... http://imgur.com/a/Nx8EU
adrian lord Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Looked at many photographs of the Boston scene and from day one had my doubts that not all was kosher. For several days felt uneasy about the white guy being pushed away in the wheelchair by the male wearing the cowboy hat. This alleged victim has allegedly had the lower part of his legs blown off. Paying particular attention to his left leg....I notice that it is shredded from the knee downwards and no ankle.. Whatever the so called experts say on this forum and the ongoing debate on the subject........???????????? This lad in the wheelchair looks remarkably healthy from the knees up.. I am not in a position to debate the right and wrong of this alleged victim......but to me he does not look as though he has just lost his legs as a result of an explosion. Opinion only....... but from the series of photographs I have looked at...he should have been wheeled away on a stretcher and not the coloured lady who had been sat with him whilst a man in a hooded top wearing sunglasses and to my mind...attempting to conceal his identity....was apparently treating the male...who appears to have the whole of his left leg on show after the explosion..the same leg later shredded when he was wheeled away.. The coloured lady mentioned above looked fine and in the next photo is wheeled away on the stretcher apparently at deaths door.... The point I make....is that not all appears to be the aftermath of an explosion and many shady figures not apparently carrying out any form of first aid to the victims.. ie the hooded man wearing sungalasses appears to be taking the prosthetic legs off the victim on the ground and replacing with what appears to be the shredded legs....Hollywood style. All the time ...whilst what appears to me ..the coloured lady apparently shielding the victims legs... I am mindful to be careful that individuals on both sides of the argument.....could falsify photographs to suit their argument. But from my own experience, if it does not look right examine again and again until you can make some sense of it.. There are many other photographs in the public domain that leave serious doubt in my mind.. As a poster mentioned earlier....would they set up something like this....False Flag.... http://buelahman.wordpress.com/2013/04/20/are-you-just-a-believer-or-do-you-think/ Something is just not right.......... You've got a lot of experience of explosions and the effects of explosive trauma on humans, physical and psychological?
Viking Warrior Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 I really give up so they think the principle who was killed at sandy hook was also present at the time of the Boston bombs . You just couldn't make it up . As for the Tamerlane pictures the photos have been flipped . Left arm becomes right arm . His injuries are consistent with some kind of explosive device also there is mass internal bleeding hence the bruising on the body but excellent casualty simulation if you live in Paps world
ottery st mary Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 (edited) You've got a lot of experience of explosions and the effects of explosive trauma on humans, physical and psychological? 40 years.......aged 15 to 55.. Apart from that NO But have clearly not tried to go into my life story....So revert to ..it does not look right to me. Once again...my opinion and leaving all the big billy bolllux stuff to the experts. No offence meant to any poster on this forum...... Some of youse is quite good:rolleyes: Edited 24 April, 2013 by ottery st mary
Viking Warrior Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Oh dear just when you think you starved the troll this happens .The body of a man found in a Rhode Island river may be a student mistakenly identified as one of the Boston bombers, authorities say. The state medical examiner's office is trying to determine whether the dead man is Sunil *Tripathi, 22, who has been missing since March. Members of a university rowing team found the body on Tuesday evening. Mr Tripathi has been described as the other victim of the bombings after he was wrongly identified a suspect. Police Lieutenant Joseph Donnelly told the Boston Globe it was "very possible" that the body is Mr Tripathi. Brown University's rowing coach called police after spotting the body floating in the Providence River. Mr Tripathi, a former Brown University student, was last seen in his apartment in Providence on 16 March. On Monday social media website Reddit issued a public apology for its coverage of the Boston bombings after it wrongly named specific people as suspects. Those mistakenly identified as suspects included Mr Tripathi. Mr Tripathi's sister, Sangeeta, told the BBC of her family's anxiety at how fast "completely unsubstantiated claims were spreading". She described how media surrounded their family home after her brother was wrongly named.
Bearsy Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Marshall Law is a Tekken character. Martial law is what you meant, dumbass. lol
pap Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 1. Can you provide just one single instance – just one! – of a documented ‘false flag’ operation directed by US authorities at innocent US civilians on US soil? By documented, I assume you mean covered and confirmed by the few companies responsible for the world's broadcast and print media? No. 2. Are you anti-Semitic? Nope, I'm not against Semites, or Jews for that matter. I don't have a great deal of time for Israel itself, which I consider to be a rogue state. 3. Do you still believe that Jeff Bauman is Lt. Nick Vogt? And that Vogt/Bauman is a “crisis actor”? Until last week, I have never heard either name. Believe is too strong a term. I consider it possible. They resemble each other, Vogt's pre-existing injuries fits the conspiracy theory and with government complicity, anyone can be created. Intelligence services seed imaginary people into various systems so their agents can wear their identities. Some photos in the mass media and a Facebook page enough for ya, Verbs? If you do, have the courage of your pathetic convictions and write directly to both families about your accusations. They are both easy to contact, and can equally easily be emailed. How do you know that they are easy to contact? Have you tried contacting them yourself? If so, how did you verify that you were speaking to the people you assumed you were speaking to? What about emails? Seriously, this is your burden of proof? When I was in Syria, I stayed at a hotel called the Sham Palace in Hama. The place was empty and had the atmosphere of a darkened morgue. I asked a Syrian the next day what the story was with the hotel. He told me (somewhat nervously) that underneath the hotel was a vast mass grave containing all the victims of the 1982 uprising against Assad. As an act of revenge, Assad insisted on building a luxury hotel on top of the bodies as an enduring insult to the families of those who dared question his authority. There were up to 30,000 bodies – as many people as would fit into St Mary’s – buried in the foundations of the hotel. Just outside a rundown hotel in Dili, East Timor, and while the Indonesians were still maintaining their iron grip on the (half of an) island, was a quay. I’d already been warned about its backstory, and was told to be circumspect while the Indonesian military lurked nearby. Just after the Indonesians invaded in 1975, they lined up key Timorese figures – magistrates, judges, politicians – and ordered them to sit on the wall of the quay. They were then shot in the back, on by one. The single gunshots were not designed to kill them but to propel them into the water, where they were torn apart by sharks. I wonder how these two examples compare with yours on Tekken 2? And would you accept that the one-day lockdown in Boston was hardly comparable? I'd certainly accept that a one-day lockdown of Boston isn't remotely comparable to the experiences you claim you had. But then, when else have you seen this happen for the capture of a 19 year old male? You can try to downplay the Boston lockdown by comparing it with the sh!tholes you've spent time in. I'm not sure how your experiences there are germane to the unprecented lockdown in Boston. Warrantless searches, police in military gear and vehicles, people told to stay in their homes. They were testing the waters, to see how much they could get away with. They never wanted a clean capture. They wanted a publicised manhunt; a rousing Hollywood-style climax to Monday's story. You only have to look at the rhetoric of the day to suss that out. Tweet from Boston PD. THE SEARCH IS DONE. THE TERROR IS OVER. AND JUSTICE HAS WON. Yeah, that's due process, right there.
pap Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Ammunition reload for pap... http://imgur.com/a/Nx8EU Thanks Crab Lungs; I've seen many of the photos on there. Not all of them. Good summary of many of the problems with the narrative on the news.
View From The Top Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 To be fair pap, I think Verbal has summed up your performance on this thread very well. Your aggressive and ill thought out replies only serve to highlight this. At the end of the day, an attrocity has happened and within a few hours you had started a rather confused and dis-organised conspiracy argument, whilst dismissing the often more informed views of others with distain and irrelevant nonsense about internet identities etc. It's not open minded to immediately go looking for a Government conspiracy in aftermath of such events, despite what you may think. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
aintforever Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Pap, a high profile manhunt was exactly what was needed. Because of the constant coverage by the media the guys had nowhere to run. The saturation Policing needed to keep the locals feeling secure. You have never seen anything similar because terrorism in the US since 9/11 has been rare, I wouldn't have expected anything else with the yanks.
pap Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 To be fair pap, I think Verbal has summed up your performance on this thread very well. Your aggressive and ill thought out replies only serve to highlight this. At the end of the day, an attrocity has happened and within a few hours you had started a rather confused and dis-organised conspiracy argument, whilst dismissing the often more informed views of others with distain and irrelevant nonsense about internet identities etc. It's not open minded to immediately go looking for a Government conspiracy in aftermath of such events, despite what you may think. You are perfectly entitled to laud Verbal's posts, Dig Dig - just as you are entitled to label my posts aggressive. I'm entitled to think you're wrong. One of us has done more research.
pap Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Please crawl out of his arse. It'll smell better.
pap Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Pap, a high profile manhunt was exactly what was needed. Because of the constant coverage by the media the guys had nowhere to run. The saturation Policing needed to keep the locals feeling secure. You have never seen anything similar because terrorism in the US since 9/11 has been rare, I wouldn't have expected anything else with the yanks. Secure from the big bad monster the media created, you mean? Do me a favour. Check out the before and after pics of the two brothers as they were being arrested, and how they ended up. Justice was never a consideration here.
adrian lord Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Do me a favour. Check out the before and after pics of the spectators at the marathon before the bombs went off and after, and how they ended up. Justice was never a consideration there.
View From The Top Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Please crawl out of his arse. It'll smell better. You really don't like it when you are out maneuvered, out thought and out argued so you revert to petty name calling which is very childish. Personally I find it amusing watching him dismantle you. You claim to be open minded but appear to have the most closed mind of all.
aintforever Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Secure from the big bad monster the media created, you mean? Do me a favour. Check out the before and after pics of the two brothers as they were being arrested, and how they ended up. Justice was never a consideration here. The fact that suspect number two has been captured alive to be questioned and put on trial in court sort of goes against your theory.
pap Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 The fact that suspect number two has been captured alive to be questioned and put on trial in court sort of goes against your theory. Except for the part where he cannot speak, and every word he writes down is going to be vetted.
pap Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 You really don't like it when you are out maneuvered, out thought and out argued so you revert to petty name calling which is very childish. Personally I find it amusing watching him dismantle you. You claim to be open minded but appear to have the most closed mind of all. Like when you likened me to a cross-dressing uncle on the 9/11 thread? I didn't call you anything. I just thought you had independent views.
Micky Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Itn news about to run a bit about one of the injured. Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2
pap Posted 24 April, 2013 Posted 24 April, 2013 Verbal seems to forget that he was suggesting that it was a Columbine style attack and that it was a conspiracy by the 'Republican Right' to suggest that it was a terrorist attack motivated by Islam. I think he is wide of the mark as are Pap's theories but I don't think they warranted such an outraged and angry attack. Pap is a likeable lefty and often comes up with interesting slants. Cheers Sergei. I know we don't always see eye to eye, but I appreciate your conditional support on this one. I'm not really sure where Verbal is coming from. I'm not really sure that he wants to debate. He just fancies destroying me. He can have a go, and I'm sure he'll attract some acolytes with this approach, but as your example shows, such a tactic can be off-putting.
Saint_Pedro Posted 25 April, 2013 Posted 25 April, 2013 Pap - the poster who is never wrong (in his own eyes) - such a sad person
pap Posted 25 April, 2013 Posted 25 April, 2013 I'm actually relentlessly cheerful in real life. You are also off the mark with your "never wrong" bit. I'm one of the few posters on here who does show a bit of humility when wrong.
Sheaf Saint Posted 25 April, 2013 Posted 25 April, 2013 Ammunition reload for pap... http://imgur.com/a/Nx8EU I have been reading through this myself, and while some of the claims made are ambiguous at best, there are also a lot of things that raise eyebrows, such as... 1. The fact that the 'exploded' rucksack looks nothing like the rucksacks being carried by the suspects 2. The fact that the older brother was pictured as laying down in a surrender position without any apparent injuries and later died of some horrific injuries 3. The fact that the younger brother did not appear to be injured at all before hiding in the boat and seemed fine while being led away in handcuffs, but still somehow suffered some horrific injuries leaving him unable to speak 4. The complete failure of any of the media to even acknowledge the presence of the Craft personnel Meanwhile, as the whole world was distracted by 24hr news coverage of the manhunt for the suspects, The US senate passed the controversial CISPA bill to allow the covert surveillance of anybody's internet traffic - in the same week that the NRA managed to block the reforms on gun ownership on the grounds of 'invasion of privacy'. God bless America - the land of the free.
Pancake Posted 25 April, 2013 Posted 25 April, 2013 Meanwhile, as the whole world was distracted by 24hr news coverage of the manhunt for the suspects, The US senate passed the controversial CISPA bill to allow the covert surveillance of anybody's internet traffic - in the same week that the NRA managed to block the reforms on gun ownership on the grounds of 'invasion of privacy'. Or, of course, it didnt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber_Intelligence_Sharing_and_Protection_Act#House_of_Representatives http://rt.com/usa/cispa-limbo-senate-apathy-294/ http://www.pcworld.com/article/2036328/it-s-privacy-versus-cybersecurity-as-cispa-bill-arrives-in-senate.html
Sheaf Saint Posted 25 April, 2013 Posted 25 April, 2013 Or, of course, it didnt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber_Intelligence_Sharing_and_Protection_Act#House_of_Representatives http://rt.com/usa/cispa-limbo-senate-apathy-294/ http://www.pcworld.com/article/2036328/it-s-privacy-versus-cybersecurity-as-cispa-bill-arrives-in-senate.html From the citation on the very Wikipedia page you linked to... http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll117.xml FINAL VOTE RESULTS FOR ROLL CALL 117 (Republicans in roman; Democrats in italic; Independents underlined) H R 624 YEA-AND-NAY 18-Apr-2013 12:59 PM QUESTION: On Passage BILL TITLE: Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act YEAS NAYS PRES NV REPUBLICAN 196 29 6 DEMOCRATIC 92 98 11 INDEPENDENT TOTALS 288 127 17
Pancake Posted 25 April, 2013 Posted 25 April, 2013 From the citation on the very Wikipedia page you linked to... http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll117.xml That's not the Senate vote.
Sheaf Saint Posted 25 April, 2013 Posted 25 April, 2013 That's not the Senate vote. OK, my mistake - I know you should never trust wiki but the citation appeared to be genuine. I should have researched a little more.
Verbal Posted 25 April, 2013 Posted 25 April, 2013 Thank you for your replies, Pap. They are interesting, because in at least the attempt to be honest (not wholly successful, unfortunately), you have undermined everything you’ve tried to argue on this thread. Your admission that you can find not a single documented example of a ‘false flag’ operation conducted by US authorities against innocent US citizens on US soil is astonishing. Every major public tragedy in the US since 9/11 has attracted the malign attention of conspiracy theorists like you. And at the very core of every conspiracy theory’s claims about these tragedies is that they are ‘false flag’ operations conducted by forces of the government against its own citizenry. So the list of US ‘false flag’ attacks would include but not be limited to: 9/11, Virginia Tech, Aurora, Sandy Hook, and now the Boston marathon. But don’t you find it even a little bit odd that, while in the entire history of the United States no one has ever documented a single proven instance of a domestic ‘false flag’ operation, you and your co-conspiracy theorists have been claiming virtually every US public tragedy over the last twelve years as ‘false flag’? Of course, you try to deflect from this admission that there are no actual documented false flag on US soil with either a dishonest or ignorant disclaimer, in which you haul out – guess what? – yet another conspiracy theory: The reason we don’t have documented confirmation of false flag ops in the US is because the manipulative elites controlling the world media have withheld information about them. But do you really think that Rupert Murdoch, et al, places guards outside the Public Records Office in Kew, or the Library of Congress in Washington, preventing the legions of academics, independent historians, think tank analysts, etc. etc., from entering the buildings and combing through newly released documentation? Do you honestly believe that only big media corporations can make Freedom of Information requests in the US or here? When media corporations become interested in something that originated in public records, it’s usually well after an academic or independent writer has produced a book or published an article about it. This kind of independent sifting through government documents by historians is the reason we know about the one instance when the US came closest to committing false-flag acts on US soil – with Operation Northwoods in 1962, a CIA draft plan to commit acts of ‘perceived terrorism’ in order to blame the Cubans. The plan, which was quite dreadful, was vetoed by President Kennedy. It never happened. Of course, false flag ops have been conducted by the US in other countries, and by other countries. But nothing – zero – by the US in the US. Which is quite something when you consider some of the dark times American civil liberties have been through, from the Red Scare and McCarthyism in the early- to mid-50s, to the horrendous abuses under Nixon from 1968 until his resignation, under threat of impeachment, in 1974. As low as my opinion is of you, not as a person but as a conspiracy theorist, I really didn’t expect you to continue to argue that Jeff Bauman and Nick Vogt are one and the same. You ask how I know how to contact them. This suggests you haven’t opened that link I sent you, fundraising for Bauman’s medical bills. And here’s a Facebook contact for Nick Vogt (how bad an internet sleuth are you?!): http://en-gb.facebook.com/pages/Nick-Vogt-Family/178392405583759 But in case you haven’t got the message, this sickening denial of the reality of suffering should be a source of great shame to you - assuming you don't lack an empathy gene. It is off the narcissistic scale to put the gratification you get from conspiracy theories above the acknowledgement of the suffering of the victims. And I once again ask that you send a donation and apology to Jeff Bauman’s fundraising site. As for your claim that I’m not arguing anything but just attacking you personally, can I just say that I’m not remotely interested in you personally – I’m arguing against you as a cook-cutter conspiracy theorist. Actually, you’re not even really that, but a kind of unwitting (or witless?) knock-off of one. The real ones in the US include scumbags of the far-right like Alex Jones, survivalists, racists who are FREAKED by the presence of a black man in the White House, virulent anti-Semites still peddling the Protocols of Zion, and Tea Party dimwits who think that ANY government is bad government. That you, with your ill-thought-out but essentially harmless mélange of left-ish, centre-ish, utopian-ish views should find yourself associated with that bunch of utter crap should have given you pause for thought. But, like all dutiful conspiracy theorists, you plough on and keep the false-flag faith. Before you once again try to parrot the conspiracy theorist’s article of faith that those who oppose them are ‘sheeple’, let me say that even by the standards of city police departments in the US, the BPD are pretty poor. We’ll hear lots of stories in the coming days and weeks about their rank incompetence, trigger-happy demeanour, misrepresentations, and so on. You’ll no doubt bolt them onto your false-flag crap, but there are and will be plenty of balanced people prepared to criticize the police’s actions that day. Finally, just some helpful advice – learn to be a little less thin-skinned. You have a habit of obsessively responding to each and every little detail of a perceived insult, as if your neatly constructed, rather narcissistic view of yourself, won’t allow nay-sayers. The Boston bombings weren’t all about you. You do realise that, right?
Viking Warrior Posted 25 April, 2013 Posted 25 April, 2013 Pap you have your view which I respect biut i dont agree with your comments / view re this thread Except for the part where he cannot speak, and every word he writes down is going to be vetted Take the folowing. Do you really know what his medical condition actually is . I do not and unless your his GP you would be wise to keep to say nothing on this matter. Only those medical physicians / surgeons / nurses etc will know what his prognosis is. if he has received a nasty facial/mouth injury I doubt you will able to speak for a good few weeks. His larynx/vocal chords may well be paralysed ( medical terminology)/injured. It does not mean they irrapairable. It may be permanent it may be temporary. He may well have to learn to speak againHe may be on some form of sedation to ease the pain. But hey your of the opinion that he cannot talk full stop because you jump to conclusions on some loose comment made by a journo or someone in your fantasy world.
pap Posted 25 April, 2013 Posted 25 April, 2013 Pap you have your view which I respect biut i dont agree with your comments / view re this thread Except for the part where he cannot speak, and every word he writes down is going to be vetted Take the folowing. Do you really know what his medical condition actually is . I do not and unless your his GP you would be wise to keep to say nothing on this matter. Only those medical physicians / surgeons / nurses etc will know what his prognosis is. if he has received a nasty facial/mouth injury I doubt you will able to speak for a good few weeks. His larynx/vocal chords may well be paralysed ( medical terminology)/injured. It does not mean they irrapairable. It may be permanent it may be temporary. He may well have to learn to speak againHe may be on some form of sedation to ease the pain. But hey your of the opinion that he cannot talk full stop because you jump to conclusions on some loose comment made by a journo or someone in your fantasy world. The reports that he may never speak again come from the doctor who has been treating him. http://www.timesofisrael.com/boston-bomber-may-never-speak-again-israeli-doctor-says/ Good enough?
pap Posted 25 April, 2013 Posted 25 April, 2013 Re: Operation Northwoods. The joint chiefs signed off on the plan. As Verbal says, Kennedy vetoed it. He was assassinated. The joint chiefs were still around. Pretty much everything Kennedy stood for was in ruins by the end of the decade. Kennedy showed exceptional courage to stand up to these people. Johnson never did. Didn't he famously say "get me re-elected. Then you can have your damn war"? One false flag later ( Gulf of Tomkin incident ) and hey presto! Vietnam. The same people that wanted to bomb their own citizens were still calling the shots after JFK was assassinated.
Viking Warrior Posted 25 April, 2013 Posted 25 April, 2013 One can understand Paps Rational on false flags etc. I remember serving in Cyprus in Episkopi in 1986 . When an attack on Akrotiri by a group of libyan terrorists using mortars, rocket-propelled grenades and small arms. It was quite a comical atack in many ways however three British dependants were wounded . On ewho broke her ankle jumping of the surf board into the see. I say comical as it could well have been more serious. Te comical bit was the terrorist were using AK 47 to shoot a padlock of a gate on lady's mile beach . They didnt succeed , but if they had realised the gate was unlocked with the chain wrapped round the gate Any way back to the real point. The attack was not aimed at British Forces but the ameircan U2 planes that were based there. This was totally denied by most of the folk at the top . Strange really as those living near akrotiri or close by would see and hear it take off . I saw it a few times. However following the attack there was a total blackout that the attack happened both by senior military and the government. Requests went out on BFPS asking if any one saw anything unusual that date. No mention was made about the attack apart from BBC and cypriot Radio. Not exactly a false flag but it does go to show that information is denied or suppressed for what ever reason. In this case I beleive this was because of the U" spy plane that was based there. Probably is still there or a new version.
Viking Warrior Posted 25 April, 2013 Posted 25 April, 2013 NO, Not good enough Pap The Director of the hospital says he may not talk again. and the journo's fill in the the blanks. The director would not be giving full details of his medical condition. he is bound by medical ethics and confidentiality. He will not tell the whole world of the suspects conditions for a varity of reasons including the security of other patients. Am I allowed to tell the world about the large bunch of grapes hanging from your Arse? oops Ihave already spilled the beans
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