Analysis of Hooiveld Errors this Season

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Interesting that many are happy to bury their head in the sand re Jos. Is it because he claps you at the end of the game?

 

I don't think anyone is so stupid as to suggest he is great no matter what, but if you want to build a case as to why we should seek to replace him in the team, then purely focussing on the mistakes is going to make it particularly justified. He's come back brilliantly under Pochettino and been part of a starting 11 that has beat Chelsea, Liverpool, and Man City. Of course he has his limitations - I don't like his distribution, he has the turning circle of an oil tanker, and sometimes he doesn't look too comfortable doing his work which can give the opposition something to build momentum on. However aerially I think he is our most accomplished defender, he doesn't try to complicate things, and he's been a part of a team that has safely steered us away from relegation, so to hang him out to dry like this is short-sighted.

 

You'll find that there have been plenty in our squad that have made mistakes this season, just as there will be in every single squad top middle and bottom in the league.

 

I think in time he will be replaced, but not because he made some mistakes, it'll be for other reasons that are a consequence of us trying to push on rather than him not being good enough to contribute at all.

[Doctoroncall]

Pointless to do a Fox one seeing as we already all agree.

 

Interesting that many are happy to bury their head in the sand re Jos. Is it because he claps you at the end of the game?

 

Not really, you haven't done a proper analysis (good and bad points) of the games he's played let alone compared to others in the side and the league.

[Saint Martini]

I prefer Jos to Fonte every day of the week. Better in the air and although he tackles more he is less likely to concede a penalty because he can actually mark a player without trying to undress him at the same time. Fonte is a penalty decision waiting to happen at every corner/freekick.

 

The reason Jos and Yosh work so well together is because they complement each other. Jos is better in the air and can deal with a targetman much better. Yosh is quicker, more agile and reads the game better.

 

That said, this is probably the position that is rather easy to get a better replacement in the summer.

[Kingsland Red]

I realise the modern game suffers from analysis paralysis, and I am probably a bit old school, but characters like Jos are the backbone of our club.

I can roll with the punches as I know this man is one of us and will always give 100%.

That is all.

[Barry Sanchez]

Not a Premiership defender and the reason I have always maintained this is Celtic got rid of him, Danny Fox as well, if that aint a pointer that they are ****e then I dont know what is, they wanted to keep Boruc even after the clown antics he had in his last year there.

[Barry Sanchez]

I realise the modern game suffers from analysis paralysis, and I am probably a bit old school, but characters like Jos are the backbone of our club.

I can roll with the punches as I know this man is one of us and will always give 100%.

That is all.

 

I love the loyalty but he is crap.

[Kingsland Red]

No loyalty, more 'together as one'; the spirit of Southampton, etc that we experience every week watching a team put in the effort we expect as fans. No more BWP / McG / couldn't give a sh*t players here anymore.

It will always be this for me rather than the Sky / Gary Neville / Talksh*te ability to produce after the event statistical analysis of players that are playing under instruction anyway.

[Saint Charlie]

No loyalty, more 'together as one'; the spirit of Southampton, etc that we experience every week watching a team put in the effort we expect as fans. No more BWP / McG / couldn't give a sh*t players here anymore.

It will always be this for me rather than the Sky / Gary Neville / Talksh*te ability to produce after the event statistical analysis of players that are playing under instruction anyway.

 

Disagree. I would terminate Jos' contract tomorrow if I could based on his displays this season.

 

I want Saints to be top half and push for Europe and Jos isnt at that level or anywhere near it.

[Saint Martini]

Disagree. I would terminate Jos' contract tomorrow if I could based on his displays this season.

 

I want Saints to be top half and push for Europe and Jos isnt at that level or anywhere near it.

 

This is what I don't agree with in your analysis. There is no better alternativ. Fonte is as much of a risk because he's not as good in the air, rather rash in the tackle himself and he has a habit of trying to swapjerseys during the game. Yoshida plays better with Jos then with Fonte which makes my choice for the rest of the season Jos.

[Kingsland Red]

I obviously want Saints to push on, but as Sunderland proved on Sunday, a lot of success is based on confidence and being made to feel successful as well as all that analysis stuff.

[dronskisaint]

Sh*t thread in my opinion...and the reason being that unless you do comparative data on every PL defender who performs the same job as Jos then it's meaningless.

 

Also why would you want to?

[melmacian_saint]

I laugh when people say that Fonte is not as good in the air, yet he has scored two goals from aerial balls (has Jos even managed a shot when he's gone up for a set piece??) and could probably have scored a couple more. He can also shoot with his feet and actually treats the ball according to our style of play, something Hooiveld doesn't do. I haven't also seen him miss that many challenges in the air, unlike with Jos who just seemed unable to use his body most of the times.

 

And to say that he is rash in the tackle...well, West Ham's goal just proves that this is nowhere near correct. I also remember a crucial, composed tackle against Liverpool where he literally stole (I think) the ball off Suarez before he could even do anything. Jos would've almost certainly just bulldozed him and given a stupid penalty.

 

It is also a myth that Yoshida plays better with Jos. May I remind you that when Boruc wasn't even ready, we conceded 8 in 10 games and both of them had spectacular games together, without the standard mess up that Jos has every half. In fact, in the two games where Jos played (stoke and west ham, where his presence was regarded as a benefit) before the new year, we conceded 7 goals.

 

Anyway, I've given up the argument because for most people in this forum it's not really an objective debate unlike for the rest of the squad players. Jos Hooiveld is considered adequate for the PL because of his social media interaction, sense of humor and being big. Out of our 13-14 main squad players at their season's peak he is one of the worst and yet people just ignore his mistakes. Fonte, Yoshida, Clyne, Puncheon, Rodriguez or even Schneiderlin etc. have had to work hard for their critics to disappear and some still have their doubters. Saint Charlie has even been nice and only put together the goals where he was to blame, because we could talk about numerous other mistakes (the near-penalties which quite frankly looked worse than the Tevez challenge amongst others), and yet people ignore it and say he is great because he can pinball balls back to midfield.

 

Fortunately I'm sure Pochettino has seen it, and we'll have either Forren or a new left-footed CB in the squad next season, and Mr.Nice can go back to the Scandinavian leagues where he can hoof and bulldoze as much as he likes.

 

You may not have enough chances once, and it's important to keep trying, but are you really going to adapt to the PL if title challengers in Scotland and Denmark don't want you?? The answer is no, and he hasn't. Put Anthony Pulis in our back 4 with Boruc behind him and he wouldn't do worse (worse than 2 mistakes a game that is).

 

But go on, I mean, he will reply to your Instagram comments.

Edited 15 April, 2013 by melmacian_saint

[Dig Dig]

Jos hasn't been active on twitter in long time so I doubt that has much to do with it. Chaplow was also very active and the majority held view on here was that he isn't good enough. It's mostly irrelevant.

 

People like Jos for his past footballing contributions and for his current run in the side which has seen us pick up more points per game than at any other time of the season.

 

He's not perfect but then I don't know of any CB's that are, especially not at mid to lower end Prem sides.

[Saint Charlie]

Jos hasn't been active on twitter in long time so I doubt that has much to do with it. Chaplow was also very active and the majority held view on here was that he isn't good enough. It's mostly irrelevant.

 

People like Jos for his past footballing contributions and for his current run in the side which has seen us pick up more points per game than at any other time of the season.

 

He's not perfect but then I don't know of any CB's that are, especially not at mid to lower end Prem sides.

 

Sean Morrison at Reading pal! Also Carlos Cuellar.

[Saint_clark]

Sean Morrison at Reading pal! Also Carlos Cuellar.

 

They're perfect, are they?

[Dig Dig]

Clint Hill is decent enough but has to play next to that donkey Samba. I would partner Yoshi with Clint next season.

[Saint Charlie]

It is also a myth that Yoshida plays better with Jos. May I remind you that when Boruc wasn't even ready, we conceded 8 in 10 games and both of them had spectacular games together, without the standard mess up that Jos has Out of our 13-14 main squad players at their season's peak he is one of the worst and yet people just ignore his mistakes. Fonte, Yoshida, Clyne, Puncheon, Rodriguez or even Schneiderlin etc. have had to work hard for their critics to disappear and some still have their doubters. Saint Charlie has even been nice and only put together the goals where he was to blame, because we could talk about numerous other mistakes (the near-penalties which quite frankly looked worse than the Tevez challenge amongst others), and yet people ignore it and say he is great because he can pinball balls back to midfield.

 

Fortunately I'm sure Pochettino has seen it, and we'll have either Forren or a new left-footed CB in the squad next season, and Mr.Nice can go back to the Scandinavian leagues where he can hoof and bulldoze as much as he likes.

 

 

This. We are playing Premier League football and the team is only as strong as its weakest link, which, for all the light-hearted **** takey stuff on this thread, Jos is.

 

Slowly the others have been taken out, Davis, Gazza, Fox, Fonte to an extent...and Jos is unquestionably next.

 

For me there is a quite considerable gap between Jos and the next weakest first XI player (assuming Shaw over Fox), a huge gap.

Edited 15 April, 2013 by Saint Charlie

[Saint Charlie]

They're perfect, are they?

 

I was joking with those two wallies.

 

End of the day, I can't think of many weaker CBs in the 8th-12th portion of the league and certainly not higher which is where we want to go...

[melmacian_saint]

Put it this way.

 

I can see Yoshida and Fonte playing for another PL side. If we released Hooiveld however, I don't see any club in the top flight taking him.

[studentsaint]

Watched the match on football first and actually thought to myself how composed jos was on the ball and how good his positioning was. Sure one free kick, but it should not have gone through the wall and what nobody mentions is the amount of goal saving blocks he makes, like nolans. All in all its been a steep learning curve but jos, like so many under MP, is improving by the game.

[LostBoys]

He is playing well but unfortunately is making mistakes which are being punished. I think he will be replaced in the close season and I prefer Fonte anyway but Jos is ideal against battering rams like Carroll and Holt as examples

[stcappy]

The interpretation on some of those 'mistakes' is interesting in that for a number of them his is actually the last of two or three mistakes prior to it, that led to him being in that position. Some of those prior mistakes have been used to argue other players are not good enough too - eg. Kelvin. For example, the utd penalty was a direct result of a poor pass by kelvin, that put us under pressure, stretching our defence so several were trying desperately to make up for the initial error. Jos's tackle was a desperate final attempt to do that and stop RVP scoring from 12 yards out or so. The arsenal own goal, I seem to remember that the issue with that was 3 saints players around podolski, who evaded them all, played a ball to Gibbs, whose cross went through Kelvin, and hit jos behind him unexpectedly. In that instance there are 4 players before jos that could be blamed equally for that goal!

 

It's accepted that one own goal v Fulham he could do nothing about, a bit like the own goal at Newcastle which fox kicked at him from point blank range. So that's 4 of his mistakes that can strongly be argued to not be his sole fault at least, yet he gets the blame. That doesn't wash with me.

 

At the start of the season, his confidence was clearly affected by our form and start, and it was right to drop him. I also think that now he has come back in he has been very good in some strong team performances. That isn't to say I wouldn't look to strengthen at CB, because I think we could improve on all our options there.

 

I have a feeling that Pochettino as an experienced defender himself, believes fonte and yoshida are too similar in style to play together hence the current selections. I also think forren is possibly seen as a long term upgrade on fonte and yoshida. Guess we will see.

 

Anyway to blame jos like this thread tries to, without looking at all the facts, and comparing to how much workload he actually has to deal with in every game, is only looking at part of the picture to make a pre-conceived assertion valid.

[tajjuk]

Extremely harsh to include that Reading tackle, that was neither error nor mistake.

 

Anyway, statistically all 3 are pretty similar.

 

From Whoscored -

 

[table]

[tr]

[th][/th]

[th]Maya Yoshida[/th]

[th]Jos Fonte[/th]

[th]Jos Hooiveld[/th]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Games[/td]

[td]29[/td]

[td]22[/td]

[td]18[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Tackles (pg)[/td]

[td]1.9[/td]

[td]1.4[/td]

[td]1.7[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Interceptions (pg)[/td]

[td]2.1[/td]

[td]1.6[/td]

[td]2.2[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Fouls (pg)[/td]

[td]0.7[/td]

[td]0.8[/td]

[td]0.8[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Offsides won (pg)[/td]

[td]1[/td]

[td]1.7[/td]

[td]0.9[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Clearances (pg)[/td]

[td]7.5[/td]

[td]8.8[/td]

[td]8[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Was Dribbled (pg)[/td]

[td]0.4[/td]

[td]0.4[/td]

[td]0.2[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Shots Blocked (pg)[/td]

[td]0.5[/td]

[td]0.8[/td]

[td]0.9[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Own Goals[/td]

[td]0[/td]

[td]0[/td]

[td]3[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Pass Success[/td]

[td]76.4%[/td]

[td]78.6%[/td]

[td]74.1%[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Aerial Duels Won (pg)[/td]

[td]2.9[/td]

[td]2.9[/td]

[td]3.7[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Cards[/td]

[td]2Y[/td]

[td]5Y[/td]

[td]4Y[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

 

So statistically each game Jos wins more headers, blocks more shots, gets dribbled past less and makes more interceptions. However he catches people offside less, has conceded 3 OGs, is more likely to get a yellow and passes worse.

 

From those stats Yoshida is the better and more efficient tackler of the 3, Fonte is the more cultured and better organiser and Jos is the better 'trenches' type defender.

Edited 16 April, 2013 by tajjuk

[Turkish]

This. We are playing Premier League football and the team is only as strong as its weakest link, which, for all the light-hearted **** takey stuff on this thread, Jos is.

 

Slowly the others have been taken out, Davis, Gazza, Fox, Fonte to an extent...and Jos is unquestionably next.

 

For me there is a quite considerable gap between Jos and the next weakest first XI player (assuming Shaw over Fox), a huge gap.

 

I agree with you. Yoshida is our best centre half, but that isn't saying much. I think he's decent but the other 2 would struggle to get into any other premier league side bar Reading. Jos can be decent for long periods of the game but you always feel you are never far away from a mistake or a lapse in concentration. He's a good guy and done a job for us is no where near a premier league centre half.

 

As well as the mistakes you've highlighted i believe Jos was at fault for Newcastles second goal up there. Watch his reaction to the long ball, he was marking Cisse, he drops off him, presumably to make a challenge for the long ball, ends up not doing this and leaving Shaw to challenge for the long ball in the centre back position. He should either win that header and clean the long ball out or stay tight to Cisse, he ended up being caught in no mans land, not challenging or effectively marking anyone, it was a great strike but if Jos is tighter to CIsse then he doesn't have a clear shot at goal, but no way should a decent centre half be covering for a full back challening for a long ball that should be meat and drink to him.

[Zurichsaint]

Extremely harsh to include that Reading tackle, that was neither error nor mistake.

 

Anyway, statistically all 3 are pretty similar.

 

From Whoscored -

 

[table]

[tr]

[th][/th]

[th]Maya Yoshida[/th]

[th]Jos Fonte[/th]

[th]Jos Hooiveld[/th]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Games[/td]

[td]29[/td]

[td]22[/td]

[td]18[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Tackles (pg)[/td]

[td]1.9[/td]

[td]1.4[/td]

[td]1.7[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Interceptions (pg)[/td]

[td]2.1[/td]

[td]1.6[/td]

[td]2.2[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Fouls (pg)[/td]

[td]0.7[/td]

[td]0.8[/td]

[td]0.8[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Offsides won (pg)[/td]

[td]1[/td]

[td]1.7[/td]

[td]0.9[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Clearances (pg)[/td]

[td]7.5[/td]

[td]8.8[/td]

[td]8[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Was Dribbled (pg)[/td]

[td]0.4[/td]

[td]0.4[/td]

[td]0.2[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Shots Blocked (pg)[/td]

[td]0.5[/td]

[td]0.8[/td]

[td]0.9[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Own Goals[/td]

[td]0[/td]

[td]0[/td]

[td]3[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Pass Success[/td]

[td]76.4%[/td]

[td]78.6%[/td]

[td]74.1%[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Aerial Duels Won (pg)[/td]

[td]2.9[/td]

[td]2.9[/td]

[td]3.7[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Cards[/td]

[td]2Y[/td]

[td]5Y[/td]

[td]4Y[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

 

So statistically each game Jos wins more headers, blocks more shots, gets dribbled past less and makes more interceptions. However he catches people offside less, has conceded 3 OGs, is more likely to get a yellow and passes worse.

 

From those stats Yoshida is the better and more efficient tackler of the 3, Fonte is the more cultured and better organiser and Jos is the better 'trenches' type defender.

 

I looked on the same website (http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/18), following this thread. There isn't a great deal to choose between our 3 CBs statistically, apart from the own goals, which have been discussed in depth above.

The other interesting stat that you didn't include was Aerial Duels % won:

Yoshida: 86 / 134 = 64%

Hooiveld: 73 / 99 = 74%

Fonte: 66 / 97 = 68%

 

I'm a bit surprised how high the stats are - that Jos is winning 75% of his headers.

[Saint Charlie]

I agree with you. Yoshida is our best centre half, but that isn't saying much. I think he's decent but the other 2 would struggle to get into any other premier league side bar Reading. Jos can be decent for long periods of the game but you always feel you are never far away from a mistake or a lapse in concentration. He's a good guy and done a job for us is no where near a premier league centre half.

 

As well as the mistakes you've highlighted i believe Jos was at fault for Newcastles second goal up there. Watch his reaction to the long ball, he was marking Cisse, he drops off him, presumably to make a challenge for the long ball, ends up not doing this and leaving Shaw to challenge for the long ball in the centre back position. He should either win that header and clean the long ball out or stay tight to Cisse, he ended up being caught in no mans land, not challenging or effectively marking anyone, it was a great strike but if Jos is tighter to CIsse then he doesn't have a clear shot at goal, but no way should a decent centre half be covering for a full back challening for a long ball that should be meat and drink to him.

 

I also just remembered the one vs Liverpool when Suarez was played in. Jos tripped over his own feet and let LS in one v one but luckily the ref said Suarez had tripped Hooiveld.

 

To all those quoting other stats its useless winning x percent of headers, x tackles etc if you make basic errors that lead to goals.

 

Hooiveld does this much more than Yoshida or Fonte.

[yorkiesaint]

Sat 6th April Reading away (2-0 win)[/b]

 

Hooiveld slightly fortunate not to concede a penalty for a clumsy (although probably just about fair) tackle on Hal Robson-Kanu.

 

 

This challenge happened right in front of me and Hooiveld actually did really well, getting his foot on the ball and knocking it away from robson-kanu when he looked favourite to be skinned. It wasn't an error.

 

The thing with Hooiveld is that he is great in the air and gives reassurance when lining up next to Shaw, especially against teams that look to exploit our perceived weakness at the left with longer balls. Most of his 'errors' come with distribution with the ball at his feet, when he is prone to looking for longer passes that aren't on.

[tajjuk]

To all those quoting other stats its useless winning x percent of headers, x tackles etc if you make basic errors that lead to goals.

 

Hooiveld does this much more than Yoshida or Fonte.

 

Failling to win headers, not winning enough tackles, not making enough interceptpions will lead to concdeing goals. Hence why Jos has probably been preffered in some games against teams with more aerial threat becuase he's more likely to win his headers than Jose or Yoshida, failure to win those headers against teams like West Ham Stoke etc. gives them a higher% of play and means they are more likely to score against us.

 

All defenders make errors, you are just highlighting Hooiveld's but you haven't highlighted mistakes from our other centre-backs, so what you have posted is more meaningless because it has no context. Also not all mistakes are punished but they are still errors none the less.

[yorkiesaint]

Extremely harsh to include that Reading tackle, that was neither error nor mistake.

 

Anyway, statistically all 3 are pretty similar.

 

From Whoscored -

 

[table]

[tr]

[th][/th]

[th]Maya Yoshida[/th]

[th]Jos Fonte[/th]

[th]Jos Hooiveld[/th]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Games[/td]

[td]29[/td]

[td]22[/td]

[td]18[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Tackles (pg)[/td]

[td]1.9[/td]

[td]1.4[/td]

[td]1.7[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Interceptions (pg)[/td]

[td]2.1[/td]

[td]1.6[/td]

[td]2.2[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Fouls (pg)[/td]

[td]0.7[/td]

[td]0.8[/td]

[td]0.8[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Offsides won (pg)[/td]

[td]1[/td]

[td]1.7[/td]

[td]0.9[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Clearances (pg)[/td]

[td]7.5[/td]

[td]8.8[/td]

[td]8[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Was Dribbled (pg)[/td]

[td]0.4[/td]

[td]0.4[/td]

[td]0.2[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Shots Blocked (pg)[/td]

[td]0.5[/td]

[td]0.8[/td]

[td]0.9[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Own Goals[/td]

[td]0[/td]

[td]0[/td]

[td]3[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Pass Success[/td]

[td]76.4%[/td]

[td]78.6%[/td]

[td]74.1%[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Aerial Duels Won (pg)[/td]

[td]2.9[/td]

[td]2.9[/td]

[td]3.7[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Cards[/td]

[td]2Y[/td]

[td]5Y[/td]

[td]4Y[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

 

So statistically each game Jos wins more headers, blocks more shots, gets dribbled past less and makes more interceptions. However he catches people offside less, has conceded 3 OGs, is more likely to get a yellow and passes worse.

 

From those stats Yoshida is the better and more efficient tackler of the 3, Fonte is the more cultured and better organiser and Jos is the better 'trenches' type defender.

 

I think this sums it all up very well. If we can just hybridise Jos and Jose we'll be in business.

[Professor]

Haven't read this all through but interested as I have long thought that CB is an area we need to strengthen. But focusing on a fan's assessment of errors isn't very scientific and is just one person's unsupported opinion. For example, in my opinion, the free kick awarded against Jos in the West Ham was incorrect and having seen it on Saints Player I would say that Jos got to the ball first and cleared it, with the West Ham player then falling over his leg. The commentator agrees with the ref's decision because he says Jos got a 'touch' on the WH player, but that overlooks that any touch is always 2-way and not automatically a foul. For me, its Yoshida who looks the weaker of our present two CBs but both of them are now well experienced in the Premier League and are not letting many goals through. In my opinion both are worth a place in the team but that doesn't mean that we couldn't find better in order to move up a level. Just not sure if its the priority I once thought it was.

[JustinR]

You know what you get with Jos. He's limited but effective.

 

It's Yoshi that winds me up no end. Yes he reads the game well, but mis judges headers far too often. Human beings were created with two eyes on the front of our face so we could easily judge distances of objects travelling towards us. Maybe Yoshi is a lizard?

[tajjuk]

Extremely harsh to include that Reading tackle, that was neither error nor mistake.

 

Anyway, statistically all 3 are pretty similar.

 

From Whoscored -

 

[table]

[tr]

[th][/th]

[th]Maya Yoshida[/th]

[th]Jos Fonte[/th]

[th]Jos Hooiveld[/th]

[th]Kompany[/th]

[th]Vidic[/th]

 

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Games[/td]

[td]29[/td]

[td]22[/td]

[td]18[/td]

[td]22[/td]

[td]15[/td]

 

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Tackles (pg)[/td]

[td]1.9[/td]

[td]1.4[/td]

[td]1.7[/td]

[td]2.1[/td]

[td]1.4[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Interceptions (pg)[/td]

[td]2.1[/td]

[td]1.6[/td]

[td]2.2[/td]

[td]1.7[/td]

[td]1.9[/td]

 

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Fouls (pg)[/td]

[td]0.7[/td]

[td]0.8[/td]

[td]0.8[/td]

[td]1.4[/td]

[td]1.1[/td]

 

 

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Offsides won (pg)[/td]

[td]1[/td]

[td]1.7[/td]

[td]0.9[/td]

[td]0.6[/td]

[td]0.4[/td]

 

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Clearances (pg)[/td]

[td]7.5[/td]

[td]8.8[/td]

[td]8[/td]

[td]7[/td]

[td]10.6[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Was Dribbled (pg)[/td]

[td]0.4[/td]

[td]0.4[/td]

[td]0.2[/td]

[td]0.1[/td]

[td]0.1[/td]

 

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Shots Blocked (pg)[/td]

[td]0.5[/td]

[td]0.8[/td]

[td]0.9[/td]

[td]0.5[/td]

[td]1[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Own Goals[/td]

[td]0[/td]

[td]0[/td]

[td]3[/td]

[td]1[/td]

[td]1[/td]

 

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Pass Success[/td]

[td]76.4%[/td]

[td]78.6%[/td]

[td]74.1%[/td]

[td]89.5%[/td]

[td]86%[/td]

 

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Aerial Duels Won (pg)[/td]

[td]2.9[/td]

[td]2.9[/td]

[td]3.7[/td]

[td]1.5[/td]

[td]4.1[/td]

 

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Cards[/td]

[td]2Y[/td]

[td]5Y[/td]

[td]4Y[/td]

[td]3Y 1R[/td]

[td]1Y[/td]

 

[/tr]

[/table]

 

So statistically each game Jos wins more headers, blocks more shots, gets dribbled past less and makes more interceptions. However he catches people offside less, has conceded 3 OGs, is more likely to get a yellow and passes worse.

 

From those stats Yoshida is the better and more efficient tackler of the 3, Fonte is the more cultured and better organiser and Jos is the better 'trenches' type defender.

 

 

Thought I'd throw in a Vidic and Kompany in there as an extra comparison. They will obviously have to be deending less often than we have with both Manchesters averaging about 5-7% more possesion than us.

 

Starkest one for me is the pass success, Kompany averaging nearly 90% completion. If we are going to be a passing team that keeps the ball we probably need our centre-backs to find their men more often, this will also result in the defence being under less pressure.

 

I definitely think this is our wekaest area. Two quality centre-backs in the summer could massively improve our team I reckon, although Forren is supposed to be a very good ball playing defender.

Edited 16 April, 2013 by tajjuk

[Chez]

I have said it all season, even when there were countless ****s on here calling for him to never play for Saints again, that when called upon he will do a perfectly decent job for us.

 

He has been outstanding in some games. At Wigan away he was immense, as was he at Norwich. He had another very good game on Saturday too.

[Chez]

You know what you get with Jos. He's limited but effective.

 

It's Yoshi that winds me up no end. Yes he reads the game well, but mis judges headers far too often. Human beings were created with two eyes on the front of our face so we could easily judge distances of objects travelling towards us. Maybe Yoshi is a lizard?

 

this. he jumps early because he knows if he doesn't he will just get beaten by the taller man. Chris Perry Mark II. Sadly he hasn't worked out that jumping early and missing the ball completely, which he has done many times, is as bad if not worse than losing a header in a real contest.

[Graffito]

this. he jumps early because he knows if he doesn't he will just get beaten by the taller man. Chris Perry Mark II. Sadly he hasn't worked out that jumping early and missing the ball completely, which he has done many times, is as bad if not worse than losing a header in a real contest.

 

Perry jumped early much more effectively than Yoshida by timimg his jump and also by standing right into the opponent so that the early jump restricted his opponents ability to jump. Yoshida sometimes launches himself into space and the ball sails right over him leaving his opponent with a clear header. Defective technique.

[Professor]

What's all this about jumping early! If a defender jumps early he misses the ball just as he does if he jumps late. As an ex-CB myself, I always tried to time my jump so as to actually meet the ball. Isn't that what Jos and Yoshida do? Its then a matter of opinion as to who you think does it best, not that effective heading is the only skill needed by a CB. On balance I feel that Yoshida, whilst good, is a close second to Jos. What I would like to know is how Forren compares to them and I'm wondering if he will get on the pitch before the end of the season, as a sub if not as a start.

[david in sweden]

From those stats Yoshida is the better and more efficient tackler of the 3, Fonte is the more cultured and better organiser and Jos is the better 'trenches' type defender.

 

I still go for Yoshida and Jos......I agree with your comment about " trenches- type" defenders, they're not pretty to look at but effective and we need those types of CB.

 

Michael Svensson did that job... and went into many tackles without fear for personal injury.....(everyone who recalls Jim Steele will remember that).. and Claus L. played the one touch stuff at the back.

 

Whilst I agree Fonte is " more cultured "..... he needs too much time and space, and that's not part of the Prem. scenario.

Edited 16 April, 2013 by david in sweden

[melmacian_saint]

I have said it all season, even when there were countless ****s on here calling for him to never play for Saints again, that when called upon he will do a perfectly decent job for us.

 

He has been outstanding in some games. At Wigan away he was immense, as was he at Norwich. He had another very good game on Saturday too.

 

How was he immense in a game where he forgot about someone he was meant to be marking in literally the last corner of the game to allow them an equalizer????

 

About the winning headers stats, well it's a shame we can't have a stat for aerial challenges rather than just balls headed. Because every time Hooiveld jumps with another striker, he either misses it and allows it to bounce or just fouls him. It's all very nice when you're on your own.

 

Seriously what is wrong with you people?!?! It's like the hideous comparisons with Michael Svensson, he was far more composed, better at reading the game and, effective at set-pieces and mobile than Hooiveld and as a proof of that he was international CB. The day Hooiveld smells the dutch national team I suspect can only happen in a post-war Holland.

[Saint Charlie]

How was he immense in a game where he forgot about someone he was meant to be marking in literally the last corner of the game to allow them an equalizer????

 

About the winning headers stats, well it's a shame we can't have a stat for aerial challenges rather than just balls headed. Because every time Hooiveld jumps with another striker, he either misses it and allows it to bounce or just fouls him. It's all very nice when you're on your own.

 

Seriously what is wrong with you people?!?! It's like the hideous comparisons with Michael Svensson, he was far more composed, better at reading the game and, effective at set-pieces and mobile than Hooiveld and as a proof of that he was international CB. The day Hooiveld smells the dutch national team I suspect can only happen in a post-war Holland.

 

This. Hooiveld wins the crucial header against Scharner and we win the game. IMO he is very lucky to be playing Premier League football alongside some of our players.

[Chez]

How was he immense in a game where he forgot about someone he was meant to be marking in literally the last corner of the game to allow them an equalizer????

 

in exactly the same way a striker can have a terrible game but score. He had a great game. Won everything and was so composed on the ball. He never gave it away all day. A million miles from the nervous hoofing at Villa Park shortly after he returned to the side. I honestly don't remember the equaliser. Was it worse than Yoshida allowing Scharna a free header in the first half to score?

 

Perhaps I'm too forgiving of his mistakes, but Andy Carroll has been in his pocket for two games. God help us when Yoshida is the man responsible for that job.

[Saint Charlie]

I thought Hooiveld was ****ing abysmal today, a limp excuse for a centre half.

 

He is a massive weakness who gives away goalscoring chances every single game.

 

Hugely holding us back IMO.

[melmacian_saint]

I thought Hooiveld was ****ing abysmal today, a limp excuse for a centre half.

 

He is a massive weakness who gives away goalscoring chances every single game.

 

Hugely holding us back IMO.

 

This. Comedy Central could not come up with a better attempt to put some pressure on Shane Long for their third.

[Dalek2003]

I thought Hooiveld was ****ing abysmal today, a limp excuse for a centre half.

 

He is a massive weakness who gives away goalscoring chances every single game.

 

Hugely holding us back IMO.

 

Yes, but MP obviously thinks he is OK. Or did....

[Saint Charlie]

This. Comedy Central could not come up with a better attempt to put some pressure on Shane Long for their third.

 

Plus this myth about him being good against big strikers is just that.

 

Inept today and shouldnt be anywhere near the team next season, nor Fonte.

[Olallana]

Plus this myth about him being good against big strikers is just that.

 

Inept today and shouldnt be anywhere near the team next season, nor Fonte.

 

 

So at this moment, who would you play along with Yoshida since both Hooiveld and Fonte are players that shouldn´t be anywhere near the team?

[Saint Charlie]

So at this moment, who would you play along with Yoshida since both Hooiveld and Fonte are players that shouldn´t be anywhere near the team?

 

Well personally I think Hooiveld is the worst CB we have. Fonte would be preferable until the end of the season but it must make you wonder about Forren when you see Jos playing like that today?

 

He is awful.

[John Boy Saint]

Back 4 v Spurs left to right Clyne - Jos - Fonte - Yoshida.

[melmacian_saint]

Back 4 v Spurs left to right Clyne - Jos - Fonte - Yoshida.

 

Back to where our season started. Don't we just love it.

 

Maybe an opportunity to start someone from the under 21s or Forren??

Edited 27 April, 2013 by melmacian_saint

[Webby]

I'd like to know stats for jos when playing alongside Fox vs alongside Shaw. Just saying. CB pairings need a good understanding to work well together but the same goes for the CB/FB pairing.

[Dr. Kucho]

Back 4 v Spurs left to right Clyne - Jos - Fonte - Yoshida.

 

Whoever plays at RB will have to face Bale, with his pace I would leave Clyne at RB. Hooiveld shouldnt be in the team either, Spurs have way to much pace and would tear him a new one.

 

Clyne - Fonte - Yoshida - Forren or maybe Targett? Whatever MP decides, he has a week to prepare someone for a team with loads of pace.