24 years ago today

[Turkish]

Where were you? I was at a friends of the families wedding. we went to the car to get the half time scores and head the first reports breaking that people had died at Hillsborough. The radio reported it was 5 at that point with no real understanding or explanation of what had gone on, just that there had been some sort of trouble. Remember it all so clearly even though i was only 12 at the time. It wasn't until we got home that evening that we realised what had gone on when seeing it on the news.

 

 

 

Edited 15 April, 2013 by Turkish

[Lets B Avenue]

Upton Park. Saints won 2-1 but hardly anyone cheered Rideouts winner as those of us with radios reported the rising death toll.

[oldsarum]

I was at Upton Park watching Saints I win 2-1 against West Ham

 

Heard in the game that something had happened and most of us unfortunately assumed Liverpool fans causing trouble again as it was only 4 years after Heysel, only much later did the news filter through what had really happened.

[Minsk]

It was an enormous tragedy and there should be justice for the 96. But how is this Saints related?

[Hatch]

same, Upton Park as well.

 

very subdued atmosphere.

[Turkish]

It was an enormous tragedy and there should be justice for the 96. But how is this Saints related?

 

Good to see that your first thoughts on the anniversary of arguably the biggest tragedy in Engish football is following forum protocol.

[Minsk]

Good to see that your first thoughts on the anniversary of arguably the biggest tragedy in Engish football is following forum protocol.

 

How do you know what my first thoughts today were? I had many thoughts before posting on this thread.

[Sour Mash]

same, Upton Park as well.

 

very subdued atmosphere.

I was at Upton Park and remember it as not many people really knew what was going on and assumed it was just trouble related, without anyone being aware of the magnitude of the disater. Long time ago now obviously.

[Turkish]

How do you know what my first thoughts today were? I had many thoughts before posting on this thread.

 

Yet your first one on posting on this thread, asking Saints fans what they were doing on this day in history, is to whinge that it isn't saints related.

[Wiggles31]

I was one at the time but my dad who was at the West Ham game always said about the atmosphere being very strange.

[Doctoroncall]

I was actually watching it unfold on television. A shameful day for the authorities and the start of the cover up.

[Depressed of Shirley]

I was also at Upton Park. Started to get an idea of the horror of the thing at about 6 p.m., and then it just got worse as the night went on. Like most fans, my thoughts were " there but the grace of god". Horrible day I will never forget.

[scotty]

It was an enormous tragedy and there should be justice for the 96.

 

They have had that now, in the form of a full governmental apology and full acceptance of the facts of the disaster. I'm sure the relatives are now in line for compensation, dont really see what more "justice" can be effected at this stage.

[hypochondriac]

They have had that now, in the form of a full governmental apology and full acceptance of the facts of the disaster. I'm sure the relatives are now in line for compensation, dont really see what more "justice" can be effected at this stage.

 

Yep. They have achieved their aims of justice and will continue to be compensated I would imagine with more apologies, probably sackings and financial renumeration.

[Fan The Flames]

They have had that now, in the form of a full governmental apology and full acceptance of the facts of the disaster. I'm sure the relatives are now in line for compensation, dont really see what more "justice" can be effected at this stage.

 

Thats not justice is it, thats just an understanding of the facts. If my kids were killed at a football match I wouldn't rest until those who were to blame were put on trial. Its not about the money for any of the families its about seeing those at fault being held accountable.

[Andre]

Mum's womb. I know, I'm such a plastic.

 

Forever remembered though, a sad day for all involved.

[eurosaint]

The Boleyn Ground with 2 of my kids !

Saints won but (putting everything into perspective!) really sad listening on the radio on the way home !

[Minsk]

Yet your first one on posting on this thread, asking Saints fans what they were doing on this day in history, is to whinge that it isn't saints related.

 

Nope, wrong - again!

 

1st thought on this thread (as can be seen from that which I posted) was, yes it was a tragedy.

2nd thought was, the 96 deserve justice.

3rd thought was, damn Turkish has paid his fiver; it was so pleasant on here when he only had three posts a day.

4th thought was, as per usual Turkish doesn't give a flying one about forum protocol.

[Minsk]

Thats not justice is it, thats just an understanding of the facts. If my kids were killed at a football match I wouldn't rest until those who were to blame were put on trial. Its not about the money for any of the families its about seeing those at fault being held accountable.

 

Absolutely this!!!

 

Justice will be when those who were responsible for the actual tragedy AND for the subsequent cover-up are doing time.

[Judge_B]

A very dark day in history.

 

However, are we simply to ignore the fact that the Titanic sank 101 years ago today? Or am I going to have to start that thread myself?

[derry]

I did an early morning flight out of Stansted and was driving back to Southampton on the M25 listening to it unfolding on the BBC sports programme.

[aintforever]

Upton Park. I remember slating the Scousers at first because we assumed it was crowd violence related. Was a weird atmosphere when the news filtered through.

[Minsk]

A very dark day in history.

 

However, are we simply to ignore the fact that the Titanic sank 101 years ago today? Or am I going to have to start that thread myself?

 

Far more tragic AND more Saints related!!

 

Might even appeal to Turkish as Liverpool related too.

[dronskisaint]

Upton Park...one weird sort of atmosphere in that only those near the few who had transistor radios had any inkling what was going on and rumours spread outwards getting worse as it unfolded. Like the others I remember Liverpool supporters getting the blame but what stays in my mind was the slightly guilty feeling about being revved up for the game yet the cheers and usual banter became more and more muted as the game went on.

 

I'd left my car at Gants Hill so didn't get to the radio for over an hour after the game and listening in silence all the way back.

[The9]

I was sat in my nan's lounge watching Grandstand like I did every Saturday, having been to Anfield the week before to see Liverpool play Sheffield Wednesday (11:30am kick off due to the Grand National). Somewhere in my garage at home I still have a poster from a news-stand with the (albeit Wales on Sunday) headline on it about the number of deaths. Still dunno why I did that, even less why it's moved house with me about 15 times since, but aged 16 I knew it was a massive big deal in how football was going to be perceived.

 

My dad actually turned down tickets to the semi-final and decided not to go for some reason. We'd both been to see Liverpool in the FA Cup finals of 1986 and 1988 (as well as the 1981 League Cup final) and he used to go to Anfield a few times a season when we weren't at Somerton Park watching Newport County. There was a hell of a crush outside the turnstiles in 1986 at Wembley as well, I got carried forward with my feet off the ground as a 13 year old. Amazingly, I believe Wembley actually built some crush barriers to spread the crowd after that - that just didn't happen at football grounds in those days.

 

Like everyone else, at first there was that familiar "they've stopped the game ? Must be hooligans" feeling at first, but it pretty quickly became clear this was something else. The police response to people trying to climb out of the cages being hooligan containment, not a response to a large-scale medical emergency underpins that.

 

Having re-seen the Grandstand footage verbatim on a BBC memorial programme a couple of years ago, it's surprising how little footage they showed, not knowing the magnitude at the time, but then the match wasn't on live tv. Grandstand were only cutting to radio reports/commentators and weren't allowed to show the live game - so there wasn't much to show and I recall we mostly got a still picture of a terrace at Hillsborough with the Grandstand logo, and (I think) Gerald Sinstadt talking. Everyone of course has retrospectively seen the footage of the surge when Beardsley hit the bar in the 4th minute and it's just harrowing to think what that would have caused in the crush. Strange to think MotD actually showed the first 4 minutes of the match that evening.

 

Justice campaign aside, a lot of good came out of it in terms of being a football supporter in the long run, but how much of that was the response to the disaster, how much was down to Thatcher's reign ending within 18 months, how much was due to Gazza and the 1990 World Cup, the money to be made from all-seaters after it was lifted out of context from the Taylor Report, how the suddenly safer environment was highlighted by Sky coverage starting, is all lost on a lot of people nowadays. There are so many people who just don't know what it was like to be a football supporter in the 1980s. It was not a life-affirming state, I can confirm that. Literally none of my school friends were football fans who actually went to matches - and I think I only got to go cos my dad got me on Saturdays and that's what he did. My mum wouldn't let me go to midweek matches for years. That all came from the perception of "what football was like", from someone who went (and even he wouldn't take me to some games because of the potential for trouble), and someone who didn't.

 

Things are a lot better now, and at the very least we owe a debt of gratitude to those who lost their lives for enabling the rest of us to be treated a little more like human beings.

Edited 15 April, 2013 by The9

[Smirking_Saint]

I was 3

[scotty]

Thats not justice is it, thats just an understanding of the facts. If my kids were killed at a football match I wouldn't rest until those who were to blame were put on trial. Its not about the money for any of the families its about seeing those at fault being held accountable.

 

 

So, what exactly do you propose that the current authorities should do about it 24 years later? And its a little naive to baldly state that "its not about the money". The solicitors for the families of the 96 said straight off that the apology would open the way for proper compensation to be paid (and rightly so imo.)

[Mowgli]

Thats not justice is it, thats just an understanding of the facts. If my kids were killed at a football match I wouldn't rest until those who were to blame were put on trial. Its not about the money for any of the families its about seeing those at fault being held accountable.

 

It's not going to bring them back though is it? We need to learn from the tragedy not seek someone to blame. It would be very hard anyway becasue so many people were sucked into the cover up. Like others on here, I assumed it was fans causing trouble and was horrified when the true facts came to light. so why sohlud be blame people on the scene for having similar thoughts?

 

I was at Upton Park and remember it as not many people really knew what was going on and assumed it was just trouble related, without anyone being aware of the magnitude of the disater. Long time ago now obviously.

 

Upton Park. I remember slating the Scousers at first because we assumed it was crowd violence related. Was a weird atmosphere when the news filtered through.

 

There were one or two who made some very poor decisions on the day - opening the gates was the trigger. The alternative was a crush outside the ground which could have been equally horrific. In truth we will never know. If you see fans trying to scale the fences to get on the pitch, the decision to send them back was equally misguided but in the heat of the moment I suspect many of us would have reacted the same. Once the lie started to gain momentum it took one or two very brave people to break ranks and expose the lie. If you can really pin that lie down to one person good luck to you. The lie itself - the worst offence IMO - did not cause the deaths- although it did cause untold anguish to the families who did not get closure for many years. Even though it is now unlikely people will be jailed it is clear they will live with this for the rest of their lives. It wasn't just the grieving families whose lives were destroyed that day.

 

A very sad day that finished football for so many. For some of us it united us in grief which is not necessarily a bad thing.

[John Smith]

Upton Park...one weird sort of atmosphere in that only those near the few who had transistor radios had any inkling what was going on and rumours spread outwards getting worse as it unfolded. Like the others I remember Liverpool supporters getting the blame but what stays in my mind was the slightly guilty feeling about being revved up for the game yet the cheers and usual banter became more and more muted as the game went on.

 

I'd left my car at Gants Hill so didn't get to the radio for over an hour after the game and listening in silence all the way back.

 

Think it's worth pointing out to those that weren't there that day (Upton Park), Rod Wallace scored after 34 seconds.

 

Remember it as you described above. Me, I went via the tube, so a whole load of us were stopping at shop windows with TV's in them, looking at the news.

 

This memorial day, tied up with the iron lady's funeral on Sunday, strange how things come about.

 

On the back of Heysel, Hillsborough and then sadly, Bradford, the commision went for all-seater stadiums. Plus a load of other hooligan related, people's freedom, people's rights being taken away without the legal standing. Now, as we know, the pendulum of blame has swung back to the officials side - the police, the politicians and the government. What do we find when we turn that stone over? Lies, miusrepresentation, blame and denial, all packaged up ina nice little way to help erode our human rights.

 

Let's get this right shall we? Let's just remember that it was the police and the government that 'blamed' the fans and off the back of this, football fans' rights were eroded overnight. It was known that this was incorrect, but because the people that knew, had the power and position to hide this fact, mis-carriage after mis-carriage of justice has been delivered.

 

I give my thanks to the families and friends of the 96 that continued the struggle to the highest level and never let the government sweep away those deaths as nothing more than a hooligan problem and that hooligan's were to blame!

 

Sometimes I am ashamed to live in these times, people are killed everyday and where there is government conclusions, we all accept like sheep. The 96 are a landmark because they undermined that concept, long live the memory of the 96 whose memory was taken away and replaced by a fictional tyrany, the head of which, will be laid to rest on Wednesday.

[krissyboy31]

Was on holiday in Rhodes and knew nothing about it or Saints victory until we went to a Taverna for our evening meal.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I was 4 so obviously didn't have much understanding of it, but obviously it's something that is really ingrained into football fans in this country.

[John Smith]

It's not going to bring them back though is it? We need to learn from the tragedy not seek someone to blame. It would be very hard anyway becasue so many people were sucked into the cover up. Like others on here, I assumed it was fans causing trouble and was horrified when the true facts came to light. so why sohlud be blame people on the scene for having similar thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

There were one or two who made some very poor decisions on the day - opening the gates was the trigger. The alternative was a crush outside the ground which could have been equally horrific. In truth we will never know. If you see fans trying to scale the fences to get on the pitch, the decision to send them back was equally misguided but in the heat of the moment I suspect many of us would have reacted the same. Once the lie started to gain momentum it took one or two very brave people to break ranks and expose the lie. If you can really pin that lie down to one person good luck to you. The lie itself - the worst offence IMO - did not cause the deaths- although it did cause untold anguish to the families who did not get closure for many years. Even though it is now unlikely people will be jailed it is clear they will live with this for the rest of their lives. It wasn't just the grieving families whose lives were destroyed that day.

 

A very sad day that finished football for so many. For some of us it united us in grief which is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

Unfortunately, a very misguided, easy way of interpreting things. I accept that this may well be your interpretation as to how 96 people lost their lives and it was all a big mistake and misunderstanding and that the lies wouldn't have prevented this, but, 96 people! 96! Seriously, how many mistakes have to be made for 96 people to die of crush related incidents! This isn't a mistake, this is failure to your job! This is then covering up that failure and blaming those that dies, because of your faiulure. Not 1 person to blame, are you sure! I know it took more than one person to cover up this blithering idiot, but, blame is clear. The thing that worries me most is thew laws brought in on the back of this, opportunitic? And the amount of money generated and the amount of contracts won! If I had my conspiracy hat on, there's more going on here than you'd think, but, yes, one person made the decision which ultimately and directly lead to the deaths of 96 family and friends being killed in a most painful, drawn out way. Throw away the key if you ask me!

[Sour Mash]

Unfortunately, a very misguided, easy way of interpreting things. I accept that this may well be your interpretation as to how 96 people lost their lives and it was all a big mistake and misunderstanding and that the lies wouldn't have prevented this, but, 96 people! 96! Seriously, how many mistakes have to be made for 96 people to die of crush related incidents! This isn't a mistake, this is failure to your job! This is then covering up that failure and blaming those that dies, because of your faiulure. Not 1 person to blame, are you sure! I know it took more than one person to cover up this blithering idiot, but, blame is clear. The thing that worries me most is thew laws brought in on the back of this, opportunitic? And the amount of money generated and the amount of contracts won! If I had my conspiracy hat on, there's more going on here than you'd think, but, yes, one person made the decision which ultimately and directly lead to the deaths of 96 family and friends being killed in a most painful, drawn out way. Throw away the key if you ask me!

Which laws do you think were brought in as a result of the lies?

[John Smith]

Which laws do you think were brought in as a result of the lies?

 

Seriously, do you think I'm going to respond to that fishing question? As you may or may not have realised, I just p****d all over your point. Grow up, get a life, get out more.

[bognor regis pete]

on the way back from Newcastle not from from Sheffield when it happened

[Sour Mash]

Seriously, do you think I'm going to respond to that fishing question? As you may or may not have realised, I just p****d all over your point. Grow up, get a life, get out more.

Bit of a sad way to act on such a thread, it was a genuine question, pity you couldn't answer it. And not sure how you can claim to have "p****d all over" my point, when I haven't made one on this thread. Edited 15 April, 2013 by Sour Mash

[sussexsaint]

I was working in the warehouse in WHSmiths in the high street as a Saturday job, listening to it on the radio - that hanuting change from the reporters talking about 'crowd troubles' the the dawning reality of what was actually happening

[wireframebox]

It was my birthday.

[Graffito]

It's interesting because, as the OP alludes to, I bet most people remember exactly where they were and what they were doing on that day. I came home from playing football and can picture clearly even now the images on the tv as I walked into the room thinking initially, why is this on the box and then realising the horror of what was unfolding.

[scotty]

It's interesting because, as the OP alludes to, I bet most people remember exactly where they were and what they were doing on that day. I came home from playing football and can picture clearly even now the images on the tv as I walked into the room thinking initially, why is this on the box and then realising the horror of what was unfolding.

 

Oddly enough, I cant remember a single thing about the day, where I was or what I was doing. And only a vague recollection of the newsflashes later in the evening.

[um pahars]

I was at Upton Park (was it the game that Phil Parkes took out Danny Wallace and was about to be sent off only off the Lino to give offside??).

 

Tannoy announcer was updating at half time and at end of game saying game delayed due to crowd trouble and at least one dead. Most on the terrace assumed fighting and perhaps a stabbing, and was only when in car on A13 heading out of London that we started to hear the accounts on the radio.

 

Really subdued drive home, remembering how we were stood on the same terrace 5 years earlier in a Cup Qtr Final (smoke bombs and mackerel).

 

Straight out to the Dog & Duck for a works bash hearing snippets throughout the night as people would arrive late with the latest reports. Sure at one point it was thought to be over 100 deaths.

 

Disgusting that it has taken 20+ years for the truth to come out and just feel so sad for those who lost loved ones and who then had to suffer of being lied to by the establishment.

[Turkish]

Nope, wrong - again!

 

1st thought on this thread (as can be seen from that which I posted) was, yes it was a tragedy.

2nd thought was, the 96 deserve justice.

3rd thought was, damn Turkish has paid his fiver; it was so pleasant on here when he only had three posts a day.

4th thought was, as per usual Turkish doesn't give a flying one about forum protocol.

 

What a shame you have to act like a knob and can't see past your agenda against me on what is a serious and interesting thread. Says more about you than it does about me I'm afraid.

[Graffito]

Oddly enough, I cant remember a single thing about the day, where I was or what I was doing. And only a vague recollection of the newsflashes later in the evening.

 

Then you may count yourself as very fortunate because it was horrific. At no time throughout the 80's was I deterred from attending any match I wanted to attend but my biggest fear was always a crowd surge on overcrowded terraces with no escape because of the fences that were erected routinely at football grounds. Hillsborough was an accident waiting to happen.

[Tom8558]

I wasn't born. I don't know the days of terracing in football or fences for supporters. For me football has always been relaxed with the occasional fight. I suppose it shows that out of all the tragedy, a glimmer of hope did surface. I would never condone the cover up though and wonder how, as a G8 country, we could have had a police force so corrupt as to try and blame fans for something that was never their fault. Yes, they reputation didn't help them but how can you judge someone by a stereotype?

[Appy]

I wasn't born, but have heard so much about the tragedy in recent years.

 

Regardless of what really happened, no one should ever go to a football match and not return.

 

RIP 96.

[hasper57saint]

I was teaching (with others) on a residential NEBSS weekend at an education centre near Wolverhampton. We suspended all classes so that the Students could observe the tragedy and form their own opinions as the events unfolded.A truly heartrending day in the history of football.

[pap]

I honestly didn't know how to process it at the time. I was a teenager, and perhaps didn't have the empathy I developed after becoming a parent. Wasn't like I didn't care; just not old enough to really deal with it.

 

The missus had a predictably different experience. Almost everyone knew someone affected by it. The queues for those paying their respects were massive, Anfield was covered in floral tributes - you've all seen the pictures; you don't need me to tell you that. Even today, it's a massively taboo subject if you fancy being disrespectful about it, particularly now that the families have been vindicated. Some of the opinions on previous threads would not go down well spoken aloud in Liverpudlian pubs.

Edited 15 April, 2013 by pap

[BallBoy]

It was a beautiful spring day and I took my daughter to play on the swings at the park. There was the sound of innocence and laughter. Nobody else there knew what was happening except me with my radio. As events unfolded I just knew it was going to be a lot more serious than the commentators were prepared to say. I still rememeber the pathos of listening as such tragedy unfolded whilst the children played.

[Toomer]

What a shame you have to act like a knob and can't see past your agenda against me on what is a serious and interesting thread. Says more about you than it does about me I'm afraid.

 

Just bloody stop it you two.

[Toomer]

I was also at Upton Park could not believe what I was hearing on the radio on the way home.