SAINTS 1-1 West Ham // Post-Match Reaction

[S-Clarke]

I think we tried our hardest today in terms of imposing our game on them, but the conditions and their style didn't make to pretty viewing. I've had better afternoons, that's for sure!

 

They are complete dross and I wouldn't have anyone from their starting 11, but you have to admit that they are effective at what they do. Long balls, fowling, time wasting, rolling around, hacking down the opposition. Basically all the ugly stuff, but they do it well and they make it hard for teams to impose themselves against them, which is why I felt kind of pleased with how we did play. We were the better side overall, but in terms of chances and the general quality of the match a draw was the fair result in my eyes.

 

Still, another point towards consolidation. Probably the first game this year where I've actually been quite relaxed about the result. It's good that we're putting together this level of form at this stage of the season, it's basically secured us and gives us real momentum going into next season.

 

Interesting one next week against a team, who in all honesty, are on their holidays. They are now the definition of a team with absolutely nothing to play for. They're pretty much guaranteed a top half finish, they've won a cup and are in Europe next year. Mentally, they'll drop off. Should be a good time to play them, 2 very similar sides as well so will be better viewing that this afternoons affair, that's for sure!

[Raging Bull]

I love the way J Rod runs at the defence almost every time he gets the ball, does it very well and is a pleasure to watch.

[the_preacherman]

Lallana busted a gut in the first two minutes to (almost) create a one-on-one, then immediately looked like he was breathing out of his asre. Never really got up to the speed of the game after that, revealed just before he went off when he dragged back on himself three times and the defender ran away win the ball. I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster who questioned whether Lallana and Ramirez in the same team is a wise option. We must begin to think of second season syndrome now and where the goals are going to come from, particularly once smart teams have wised up to us. Rodriguez has virtually booked his first team berth and, as long as he's fit, Lambert gets the shirt; the other three forward shirts are up for grabs.

[S-Clarke]

I love the way J Rod runs at the defence almost every time he gets the ball, does it very well and is a pleasure to watch.

 

That's all to do with confidence, he always had the ability to do it, but at the start of his time here he was always reluctant to do so, or do it with enough purpose.

 

He's now got the confidence to run as direct as he can, and he so much ability to beat players that it can be a joy to watch.

[Roger]

Lallana busted a gut in the first two minutes to (almost) create a one-on-one, then immediately looked like he was breathing out of his asre. Never really got up to the speed of the game after that, revealed just before he went off when he dragged back on himself three times and the defender ran away win the ball. I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster who questioned whether Lallana and Ramirez in the same team is a wise option. We must begin to think of second season syndrome now and where the goals are going to come from, particularly once smart teams have wised up to us. Rodriguez has virtually booked his first team berth and, as long as he's fit, Lambert gets the shirt; the other three forward shirts are up for grabs.

 

Ramirez other than free kicks was better than Lallana.

[The Kraken]

Ramirez other than free kicks was better than Lallana.

 

That's a bit like 2 bald men arguing over a comb. They were both disappointing (Ramirez's goal aside).

[S-Clarke]

That's a bit like 2 bald men arguing over a comb. They were both disappointing (Ramirez's goal aside).

 

This.

 

Another non-performance from Ramirez in all honesty.

[LostBoys]

Disappointing we should have beated that crap easily.

[S-Clarke]

Disappointing we should have beated that crap easily.

 

If only football was that cut and dry.

[Avenue Saint]

This.

 

Another non-performance from Ramirez in all honesty.

 

Disagree.

 

Tackled hard and well, scored a goal, granted was wasteful with deliveries but will grow as a player and benefit from a full pre season.

 

Will be a star next season, like to think.

[max_saints]

btw speaking about ramirez, west ham's record signing was even worse! did not even know jarvis was on the pitch till he got subbed

[Crazy Diamond]

Fair play to Gaston Ramirez I must say, especially after I heard more than once today that he 'wasn't good enough' 'doesn't have a big enough impact on the game' and 'needs to be substituted immediately.' Yes lads, those comments seem rather foolish don't they?

[S-Clarke]

btw speaking about ramirez, west ham's record signing was even worse! did not even know jarvis was on the pitch till he got subbed

 

I think he's still in Clyne's pocket. I hope he gave him back before the WHU coach left.

[Nexstar]

Fair play to Gaston Ramirez I must say, especially after I heard more than once today that he 'wasn't good enough' 'doesn't have a big enough impact on the game' and 'needs to be substituted immediately.' Yes lads, those comments seem rather foolish don't they?

 

Do they? How many set-pieces in good positions did he waste today?

[stknowle]

Lallana busted a gut in the first two minutes to (almost) create a one-on-one, then immediately looked like he was breathing out of his asre. Never really got up to the speed of the game after that, revealed just before he went off when he dragged back on himself three times and the defender ran away win the ball.

 

Good point well put

[S-Clarke]

Fair play to Gaston Ramirez I must say, especially after I heard more than once today that he 'wasn't good enough' 'doesn't have a big enough impact on the game' and 'needs to be substituted immediately.' Yes lads, those comments seem rather foolish don't they?

 

He scored a goal, but his overall performance still flatters to deceive for me. Gives the ball away too easily, not strong enough when in possession, set pieces are absolutely horrific from anywhere on the pitch.

 

There's no doubt that there is a good player in there, but you can't deny that he's struggling to adapt. I don't know if it's blind faith that we keep looking forward to seeing him next year or not, but surely he can only get better?

 

Decent enough goal return, but in terms of a 90min contribution from a £15m signing, it hasn't been enough this year.

[The Kraken]

He scored a goal, but his overall performance still flatters to deceive for me. Gives the ball away too easily, not strong enough when in possession, set pieces are absolutely horrific from anywhere on the pitch.

 

There's no doubt that there is a good player in there, but you can't deny that he's struggling to adapt. I don't know if it's blind faith that we keep looking forward to seeing him next year or not, but surely he can only get better?

 

Decent enough goal return, but in terms of a 90min contribution from a £15m signing, it hasn't been enough this year.

 

This is it for me.

 

Take the price out of the equation; what would we be expecting of Gaston? Apart from him costing so much I don't see a justification for such a huge improvement next season. At the moment my first choice Saints XI doesn't have him in it.

 

Then again I was hopelessly wrong on JRod, so I'll just wait and see!

[Turkish]

He scored a goal, but his overall performance still flatters to deceive for me. Gives the ball away too easily, not strong enough when in possession, set pieces are absolutely horrific from anywhere on the pitch.

 

There's no doubt that there is a good player in there, but you can't deny that he's struggling to adapt. I don't know if it's blind faith that we keep looking forward to seeing him next year or not, but surely he can only get better?

 

Decent enough goal return, but in terms of a 90min contribution from a £15m signing, it hasn't been enough this year.

 

This is it for me.

 

Take the price out of the equation; what would we be expecting of Gaston? Apart from him costing so much I don't see a justification for such a huge improvement next season. At the moment my first choice Saints XI doesn't have him in it.

 

Then again I was hopelessly wrong on JRod, so I'll just wait and see!

 

He does have that all important quality a saints player needs though of being young, so therefore guranteed to improve.

[Olallana]

Wow the price for Gaston getting higher by the week, hopefullt Cortese has budgeted for that....

[The Kraken]

He does have that all important quality a saints player needs though of being young, so therefore guranteed to improve.

 

I think he's hungry too.

[S-Clarke]

Wow the price for Gaston getting higher by the week, hopefullt Cortese has budgeted for that....

 

£12m rising to £15m based on all sorts.

[trousers]

Apart from the free kick malarkey I thought Gaston had a good game

[Saints Warrior]

saints keep improving which is a positive as the games reduce. I think we can end on 45 points and set ourself up for next season. Hoof United were utter crap and how Carrol can get into a leaque 2 side let alnone Prem beats me. England wont win anything with him. They were lucky to keep 11 on the pitch.

[70's Mike]

I think we tried our hardest today in terms of imposing our game on them, but the conditions and their style didn't make to pretty viewing. I've had better afternoons, that's for sure!

 

They are complete dross and I wouldn't have anyone from their starting 11, but you have to admit that they are effective at what they do. Long balls, fowling, time wasting, rolling around, hacking down the opposition. Basically all the ugly stuff, but they do it well and they make it hard for teams to impose themselves against them, which is why I felt kind of pleased with how we did play. We were the better side overall, but in terms of chances and the general quality of the match a draw was the fair result in my eyes.

 

Still, another point towards consolidation. Probably the first game this year where I've actually been quite relaxed about the result. It's good that we're putting together this level of form at this stage of the season, it's basically secured us and gives us real momentum going into next season.

 

Interesting one next week against a team, who in all honesty, are on their holidays. They are now the definition of a team with absolutely nothing to play for. They're pretty much guaranteed a top half finish, they've won a cup and are in Europe next year. Mentally, they'll drop off. Should be a good time to play them, 2 very similar sides as well so will be better viewing that this afternoons affair, that's for sure!

 

for those who are old enough, memories of big fat Sam as a player

[mitch01]

Ramirez has had a disappointing first season all things considered. I still think he will become a great player for us though, starting next season.

[trousers]

@SouthamptonFC: Hooiveld:"I think it was a great tackle. It was on the ball and not with a stretched leg, so I was a bit disappointed about that." #saintsfc

[warsash saint]

Thought Davis was immense today ..... Best game in a Saints shirt IMO. Mentions to Cork & Clyne as well.

 

Have not seen Jos' challenge for their free kick, but thought he also had a good game & handled Carrolls physical approach very well.

[dubai_phil]

Thoughts from the Pub.

 

1) How the hell did me & Dantheman end up with 10 cans of Bud on ice left on our table after the game? Nightmare. If only it had been real beer.

2) Wet Sham. What a disgrace to English Football, no not their hoofball style but their permanent arms out moaning whingeing bullkrap. #embarrassmentonglobaltv

3) Gaston Great game from him today took his ROUTE ONE (oh how we laughed) goal really well but also made aa lot of good clearances back in our half. BUT FFS don't EVER let him take a FK again

4) EVERY Omen/Portent screamed LOSS. So actually happy we got a point but really could have been more

5) Puncheon, again showed up for what he is George Lawrence = great ability, no brain

6) Lallana REALLY has to work on his first touch around the box

7) JRod, possibly the best striker in the EPL right now shame he was sick

Fox panic when he got booked got turned a kipper once but actually did OK

9) Clyne - my MoM some great runs and defence

 

Beer scooter calls, happy with that & can't watch next week as will be in Beer Tent in Munich

[hypochondriac]

Fair play to Gaston Ramirez I must say, especially after I heard more than once today that he 'wasn't good enough' 'doesn't have a big enough impact on the game' and 'needs to be substituted immediately.' Yes lads, those comments seem rather foolish don't they?

 

 

Not really. Fair play for getting the goal but other than that he was wasteful in possession and was poor as usual.

[dubai_phil]

This is it for me.

 

Take the price out of the equation; what would we be expecting of Gaston? Apart from him costing so much I don't see a justification for such a huge improvement next season. At the moment my first choice Saints XI doesn't have him in it.

 

Then again I was hopelessly wrong on JRod, so I'll just wait and see!

 

Just want to go on record and say I think you are wrong. (Again)

 

Let's see

[The Kraken]

Thoughts from the Pub.

 

1) How the hell did me & Dantheman end up with 10 cans of Bud on ice left on our table after the game? Nightmare. If only it had been real beer.

2) Wet Sham. What a disgrace to English Football, no not their hoofball style but their permanent arms out moaning whingeing bullkrap. #embarrassmentonglobaltv

3) Gaston Great game from him today took his ROUTE ONE (oh how we laughed) goal really well but also made aa lot of good clearances back in our half. BUT FFS don't EVER let him take a FK again

4) EVERY Omen/Portent screamed LOSS. So actually happy we got a point but really could have been more

5) Puncheon, again showed up for what he is George Lawrence = great ability, no brain

6) Lallana REALLY has to work on his first touch around the box

7) JRod, possibly the best striker in the EPL right now shame he was sick

Fox panic when he got booked got turned a kipper once but actually did OK

9) Clyne - my MoM some great runs and defence

 

Beer scooter calls, happy with that & can't watch next week as will be in Beer Tent in Munich

 

And not even one mention of the Masters on TV, FFS. Philip, your standards are slipping.

[Saint Charlie]

Clyne excellent again, has noticeably improved of late.

[Crazy Diamond]

I agree, Ramirez wasted his set pieces, but to be so scathing as the people around me were was a bit much. As for not having an impact, a goal is impactful on a game, I would think...

 

I also agree that he's not lived up to his price tag, but it's hardly his fault that we paid a lot of money for him. He's how old? 21? Give him time.

[Crazy Diamond]

Clyne excellent again, has noticeably improved of late.

 

Amazingly, for a game that was basically played on a pitch made of water, he didn't slip up - something he always seems to do.

[ART]

Can someone tell me when ever did we win a game with Lallana starting and being captain? Once more he ran about like a headless chicken losing 9/10 passes of the ball. What a difference when Rodriguez and Puncheon came on. Jack Cork was just amazing and gave everything and pleasantly surprised by Danny Fox's game. Today was a game we could and should have won.

Sorry, but with Lallana as Captain we are never going to get to the level most of us are expecting. He hqs so much more to offer as a player but as captain no way.

[ART]

Clyne excellent again, has noticeably improved of late.

Have to agree 100%, and meant to comment on how excellent he was today.

[The Kraken]

I agree, Ramirez wasted his set pieces, but to be so scathing as the people around me were was a bit much. As for not having an impact, a goal is impactful on a game, I would think...

 

I also agree that he's not lived up to his price tag, but it's hardly his fault that we paid a lot of money for him. He's how old? 21? Give him time.

 

I don't think anyone suggests its his fault. But price will always come into it.

 

For example: I'm quite happy to say that Clyne at £2.5M was an absolute bargain.

I'm quite happy to say that I originally thought JRod was way overpriced at £7M, but I was wrong and it now looks like it may be a complete steal.

I'm happy to say that Steven Davis was a great deal to be had at under £1M.

And I'm also comfortable in my assertion that, to date, Gaston Ramirez has done little to justify his £12M transfer fee.

 

Price tags will always come into it, and of course its not his fault, but its the benchmark he has to live by. As do all players.

[Turkish]

Can someone tell me when ever did we win a game with Lallana starting and being captain? Once more he ran about like a headless chicken losing 9/10 passes of the ball. What a difference when Rodriguez and Puncheon came on. Jack Cork was just amazing and gave everything and pleasantly surprised by Danny Fox's game. Today was a game we could and should have won.

Sorry, but with Lallana as Captain we are never going to get to the level most of us are expecting. He hqs so much more to offer as a player but as captain no way.

 

Our biggest win of the season came with Lallana starting and as captain.

 

Glad to be if service.

[SNSUN]

A few on here slating Hooiveld, it looked like a fair challenge to me at the time but I haven't seen it again. I thought both defences were comfortable and neither keeper had much to do, with the ball mostly being played in the middle of the pitch. West Ham came for a point, and got it, but it was a fair result I think. A point closer to safety.

 

None of our defenders had a bad game on what was a tricky pitch in tricky conditions against a big side. Jos looked fairly comfortable and to me it seemed was looking to play it rather than hoof it forward which was promising. Fox wasn't poor either, though he'll never be the player Shaw has become, but still he put in a shift and from where I sat it didn't look like a booking. (Although I was quite far from the challenge.) Yoshida did his job competently enough too, and as pointed out Carroll is a lump who is hard to play against because of his height and strength. I didn't even recognise Vaz Te without his hair!

 

Our biggest problem today was stringing together attacking moves. Lallana had a few touches but was off the pace, Ramirez was poor today IMO too, and Lambert had a quiet game. Only Davis shone out for me today of the attacking quartet. I thought he was very good, most moves went through him and he was always looking to win the ball when he didn't have it. I can see why he's fancied by Pochettino at the moment.

 

All in all it was a miserable day with the rain, but a reasonable point earned in the end. West Ham earned their "hoof" chants but ultimately also earned their point. We're both seemingly safe now, but it would be nice to finish above them - a victory for good football that would be. The only other game I can get to this season is Stoke on the last day - I hope we have a few more points by then, but as it stands I can't see us going down on 38.

 

Incidentally - we're only 1 point away from being mathmatically safe from being taken over by QPR and Reading barring a massive goal difference swing, so we now support them against the sides above them.

 

That's -

 

QPR vs Stoke, QPR vs Newcastle, Reading vs Norwich, Reading vs Fulham and Reading vs West Ham - all to be played before the season's end. It's been seen before that relegated sides start to perform better - let's hope that's the case when they play the teams above us - every little helps and a top half finish is a real possibility.

[Toomer]

We play on the floor, we play on the floor, we are Southampton we play on the floor hooooooof, glad I don't sit on the half way line would have had a stiff neck tonight.

[hypochondriac]

Just want to go on record and say I think you are wrong. (Again)

 

Let's see

 

Why is everyone convinced that we will see such a big improvement from Gaston? It may happen but I fail to see where the evidence is for it.

[The Kraken]

Why is everyone convinced that we will see such a big improvement from Gaston? It may happen but I fail to see where the evidence is for it.

 

Indeed. Take away the price tag and there's little to suggest it IMO. I think it's optimism in a lot of cases; he's clearly a good player but I haven't seen one 90 minute performance from him to suggest he's better than Lallana playing in a number 10 position for us.

[colehillsaint]

For me Ramirez just tires dreadfully after 60 to 70 mins. In the first half he looked pretty assured, bar a couple of passes on the break, that didn't come off, but he was creating stuff and I think his dead ball deliveries were good. His goal was his last useful contribution. Almost as if he mentally tires, and the euphoria of the goal was the last straw. The dead balls after that we're just ridiculous, but you would think that his concentration over 90 minutes can get better. I enjoy watching him play. Sorry!!

 

Credit to West Ham for some good last ditch defending. They worked hard for there point.

[Saints foreva]

Why is everyone convinced that we will see such a big improvement from Gaston? It may happen but I fail to see where the evidence is for it.

 

Just people in denial.

 

The guy has been a flop and if he'd signed for someone else for that money, many on here would be saying "glad we didn't waste £12m on him".

[shurlock]

Game was crying out for pace - Jrod's cameo showed what we were missing. And if you have Fox in the side, at least benefit from his setpiece delivery. Ramirez should have ceded responsibilities much earlier.

Otherwise thought we were comfortable - Wham offered little, if nothing. Good to see us roll our sleeves up and go toe to toe with them in horrid conditions. But they were disciplined, got a slice of luck (as did we) and we didn't quite create enough to have too many regrets.

[corsacar saint]

Although we were the better side,some of West Hams defending was very good,however they are an awful team to watch and were allowed to get away with too many cynical fouls and too many of there players diving around,by a very sub standard refereeing performance.

[The Kraken]

Although we were the better side,some of West Hams defending was very good,however they are an awful team to watch and were allowed to get away with too many cynical fouls and too many of there players diving around,by a very sub standard refereeing performance.

 

Considering we had Morgan booked for a blatant dive, and were quite liberal with going to ground on more than a couple of other occasions, I wouldn't be too hasty on throwing that accusation around myself.

[shurlock]

Considering we had Morgan booked for a blatant dive, and were quite liberal with going to ground on more than a couple of other occasions, I wouldn't be too hasty on throwing that accusation around myself.

 

Not really - Morgan's dive apart, we were pretty honest, perhaps too honest. Thought Ramirez had a decent shout for a free kick/pen in the first half but stayed on his feet. Dean was very kind to them. Hard to believe Carroll was the first of their players to go into the book -and that was for dissent.

[Chez]

tough conditions to play it on the deck. Ready made excuse for Fat Sam, but it's four times I've seen us play against his West Ham side now and quite frankly my neck can't take another. Hoof. Hoof. Hoof. OK, so it's an easy jibe, and we're not shy to hit it long to Ricky, but I simply can't believe any football journalist allows him to get away with it when he claims he is unfairly labled as a prehistoric long ball merchant. He is. I applauded him last season. He did what he said he would (get them up) and what he had to do under great pressure. But now back in the top flight and safe there are no more excuses. Watch him sign a ball juggler, continue to hoof it, but claim they play good football. They must do, they have a ball juggler in the side.

 

Enough about them. I thought we played pretty well when not being fouled by Nolan. I counted at least 7 fouls in the frirst half and not even a word. I thought we controlled the first half totally, but we just lacked that Rodriguez pace we needed. I thought Ramirez just gave away too many balls when we needed him to unlock their defence. He has talent, but we need to see the killer ball come off more often.

 

Boruc very little do, again. Made me nervous with some of his kicking, but no real dramas.

Clyne 8 wondered if we might drop him like we did at Stoke, but glad we didn't as he was solid defensively and good in attack. Think he really shines with Puncheon in front of him though.

Jos 8 had Carrol in his pocket, again. Another terrific game for the man written off by everyone on here. He is doing a job nlow called upon. Would not want any other CB at the club marking Carrol, or any of the other giant strikers in the Prem.

Yoshida 6 In the first half he got tight on Carrol and fouled him a few times, leaned into him a few times and generally made life tough, all of which I loved, but in the second half he became a liability. His lack of height led to him leaping far far too early to try and make up for it, he dived in and was even done by Carrol.

Fox 6 some good stuff, a couple of nice runs early doors and covering round to save us in the second half, but he got beaten all ends up by Vaz Te at least three times because of poor positioning. First touch good as always, but defensively he was not great and he does threaten going forward like Shaw does. You all know this.

Cork 8 he's so consistently great it's not true. Anyone else see him stretching and winnign that header in the second half that otherwise looked a certain goal. He's imense. West Ham didn't even bother with the middle of the field. They gave it up almost immediately.

Morgan. 7 disgusting dive. Shame on him and a well desreved yellow. Hate seeing that. I thought he'd grown out if it. The yellow effects his game. It didn't effect him as much as it usually does. Normally it's game over and you might as well take him off, but he still played well, but he just couldn't quite make those tackles in the second half.

Davis 8 another decent game. His touch in those conditions was outstanding, Needed him to do a little more in the final third though. Thought he faded towards the end a bit.

Lallana 6 started well, but faded and did nothing in second half. Ended up taking himself on at one point. Normally I'd of been calling for Ramirez to be subbed, but I couldn't moan when he was taken off. Right move.

Ramirez 6 great finish, but conceded posession to many times, when a good final ball would have us in. It's thr toughest pass to make, but he's not getting any to work right now. That will change, I'm sure. The other thing that concerns me is he doesn't hold a position. He is all over the pitch and leaves us wide open. He needs to find a position and play it.

Lambert 7 pretty quiet. Lots of good stuff, but we quite rightly kept it short as Collins eats long balls for breakfast. Need to see him in goal scoring positions a little more.

 

Rodriguez bright as a button and caused no end of problems with his straight running. He's on fire right now.

Pumcheon good control and kept the ball well. No real opportunity to open them up. Need to keep him in the fold as we have a lot of choices right now

[The Kraken]

Not really - Morgan's dive apart, we were pretty honest, perhaps too honest. Thought Ramirez had a decent shout for a free kick/pen in the first half but stayed on his feet. Dean was very kind to them. Hard to believe Carroll was the first of their players to go into the book -and that was for dissent.

 

Not saying they didn't deserve a bit more hefty judgement, but it was for persistent fouling. Unfortunately I had to forego my paid for match ticket and watch from home, so I saw the replays, and its fair to say we made a bit of a meal of at least 2 or 3 fouls from them. Jack Cork getting up-ended by Nolan in the first half, for instance, after which Lallana got all in his face. Nolan didn't even touch Cork for that.

 

I thought Dean had a pretty poor game though; a usual "look at me" display.

 

Edit: That would have been a super harsh penalty too, that you mention. The 'taters were happy there was nothing wrong with it, as was I.

Edited 13 April, 2013 by The Kraken