Maggie Thatcher has died

[trousers]

• UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon expresses his deepest condolences to her family members and the UK government. He says she was a "great model" as the first female prime minister, "who not only demonstrated her leadership but has given such great hope for many women for equality, gender equality in Parliament".
  He adds: "I hope that her leadership will inspire many people around the world for peace and security and human rights."
  
• 
  The Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, says he heard the news with sadness and his prayers are with her family and friends. He adds: "It is right that today we give thanks for a life devoted to public service, acknowledging also the faith that inspired and sustained her."
  
• 
  Veteran Burmese journalist Po Thaut Kya tells BBC Burmese: "We were very interested when she became the British PM and we always followed her story very well. At the time, she was inspirational to Burmese people. She is a role model for women leaders and her death is a great loss to the world. We are covering the story and it will be our front page cover story tomorrow."
   
  German Chancellor Angela Merkel said: "As a long-serving prime minister, she shaped modern Britain as few have before or since. She was one of the greatest leaders in world politics of her time. The freedom of the individual was at the centre of her beliefs so she recognised very early the power of the movements for freedom in Eastern Europe. And she supported them. I will never forget her contribution in overcoming Europe's partition and the end of the Cold War.
  "Margaret Thatcher was not a feminist but by proving herself as a woman in the highest democratic post when this was far from usual, she gave an example to many. My thoughts and sympathy are with her children."
   
  Entrepreneur Lord Sugar tweets: Margaret Thatcher died today. A great lady she changed the face of British politics, created opportunity for anyone to succeed in the UK.RIP
   
  US President Barack Obama says "the world has lost one of the great champions of freedom and liberty, and America has lost a true friend".
  Baroness Thatcher, he says, "shows our daughters" there is no glass ceiling that cannot be shattered, adding: "As prime minister, she helped restore the confidence and pride that has always been the hallmark of Britain at its best"."As an unapologetic supporter of our transatlantic alliance, she knew that with strength and resolve we could win the Cold War and extend freedom's promise.
  "Here in America, many of us will never forget her standing shoulder to shoulder with President Reagan, reminding the world that we are not simply carried along by the currents of history - we can shape them with moral conviction, unyielding courage and iron will. "
  

 

• Writer and comedian Alexei Sayle told the BBC: "She made a conscious decision to run down manufacturing and concentrate on two areas which were arms manufacture and financial services. I wonder in some ways if having financial services and arms manufacturing at the core of your country kind of corrupts you morally. This idea that she was a great reformer - in a sense she was a great destroyer."
   
  
  

[JustMike]

dont agree with celebrating her death, that is just wrong but a lot that is still wrong with the country was her and those that followed fault. I wonder if any of those that were so strongly protesting the poll tax are now jumping on the "she was a wonderful woman" bandwagon

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

You don't see the distinction? You can agree with some of their opinions, without agreeing with all. You can agree with some of their opinions, without being "happy" that she has died. You can even be happy that she has died (which is NOT my view), without agreeing with any of their particular opinions.

 

As usual, things are nuanced, not black-and-white.

 

I'm not saying that that though, you seem to be reading something into it that isn't there.

 

You look at the calibre of people who are finding joy in her dying, and there is an indisputable link, they're all evil, left wing *****. It just seems to me that people who are agreeing are morally deficient, and that their politics are probably similar.

 

It was an off the cuff comment though, don't let it eat at you.

[solentstars]

She'll be blamed for being Harry Redknapps mother in this thread before the day is out.

 

God even harry redknapp does not deserve that

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[Upwind]

David Cameron has just sent his offical letter to the Thatcher residence.

 

 

It starts "I regret to inform you that due to recent events you now have too many bedrooms..."

[hutch]

For those of us who are old enough, we should remember what a state we were in when she arrived on the scene:

 

Callaghan's legacy

 

The three day week

 

Petrol coupons

 

Grunwick (is that what it was called?)

 

British Leyland

 

Upper Clyde Shipbuilders

 

Scargill & Galtieri came later

 

 

I didn't agree with everything she did, but Britain was certainly a better place when she stepped down than it was when she was elected.

 

 

Rest in Peace Mrs. Thatcher

[Dimond Geezer]

I guess it depends on the definition of "entitled"...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_funerals_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

There's no any ambiguity with the definition of the word "entitled". As already stated, the monarch is the only person entitled to a state funeral, the others in the list were merely granted them.

No matter which words & phrases you choose to embolden & despite what you may think, she is not, and has never been the monarch, therefore not entitled to a state funeral.

[aintforever]

R.I.P.

 

It's never right to celebrate someones death, even complete c*nts.

[Ken Tone]

She'll be blamed for being Harry Redknapps mother in this thread before the day is out.

 

 

 

It would be tough to blame her. Lots of people's kids go wrong.

[solentstars]

I think a large part of it is.

 

I'd like the opinions of some old timers on this one. Were the Conservatives ever called the Nasty Party before she took charge?

 

No they we're known has the one nation party before the loons took over the Tory party .unemployment was considered a disaster at the time with over one million so they trebled it has well has destroying manufacturing with a over valued pound and wasting our north sea oil to pay for her mass unemployment.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[Hamilton Saint]

I'm not saying that that though, you seem to be reading something into it that isn't there.

 

You look at the calibre of people who are finding joy in her dying, and there is an indisputable link, they're all evil, left wing *****. It just seems to me that people who are agreeing are morally deficient, and that their politics are probably similar.

 

It was an off the cuff comment though, don't let it eat at you.

 

It's not eating at me. I'm just trying to improve the quality of debate on here by highlighting errors in reasoning, and challenging vague, "off the cuff" comments!

[trousers]

There's no any ambiguity with the definition of the word "entitled". As already stated, the monarch is the only person entitled to a state funeral, the others in the list were merely granted them.

No matter which words & phrases you choose to embolden & despite what you may think, she is not, and has never been the monarch, therefore not entitled to a state funeral.

 

Ok. Maybe we'll never know whether she was going to be offered one or not, and thus whether "her wishes" actually changed whether she got a state funeral or not. I was simply echoing a report that she had requested not to have one. That is all. There's at least one example of a former PM being granted a state funeral and declining it (posthumously it would seem) so that'll do for me.

Edited 8 April, 2013 by trousers

[pap]

R.I.P.

 

It's never right to celebrate someones death, even complete c*nts.

 

The Irish would probably disagree with their wakes, n all.

[ecuk268]

For those of us who are old enough, we should remember what a state we were in when she arrived on the scene:

 

Petrol coupons

 

I didn't agree with everything she did, but Britain was certainly a better place when she stepped down than it was when she was elected.

 

 

Rest in Peace Mrs. Thatcher

 

Petrol coupons were under Heath in '73 (still got mine).

 

They were a response to the OPEC oil embargo after the Yom Kippur war.

[Special K]

To say she is still reponsible for any destruction of the "fabric of society" is imho, plain silly. 23 years have passed since she was in Office last and Britain has moved on a great deal and a notable number of decision makers have left their mark on the social structure of the country since. To me it appears to be a tired old argument, rolled out whenever Thatcher is mentioned.

 

Quite incomprehensible that some posters can take delight in the death of anyone, really. Shocking.

[Saint George]

No doubt many on here are too young to remember what the country was like prior to Mrs Thatcher becoming PM. Anyone remember Jim Callaghan going off on vacation when there was a general strike? Do you remember the heaps of garbage that went uncollected for weeks? How about regular power cuts due to strikes by workers who were holding the country to ransom?

 

Like everyone, some things she did were great, others not so great and mistakes were made and her premiership probably went on 2 years too long.

 

Having said that she played a momentous role in the UKs modern history and for people to celebrate her passing is incomprehensible and says more about them personally than their politics.

 

She also made our Armed Forces feel respected again (and not just through the Falklands but through increasing pay beyond paupers salary) and was instrumental in bringing the Cold War to an end.

 

RIP

 

This ^

You had to have been around to witness the total f**k fest that was Britain spiraling into oblivion for the 20 years prior to Thatcher to truly appreciate her greatness....That woman achieved the impossible....Sure, it was painful for some. But the Country was so far down the tubes, it was never going to be painless.

 

She did what it took to turn things around and had the balls of steel required to see it through...

 

RIP Maggie

[dubai_phil]

Michael Barrett ‏@mgbarrett 1h If state funeral = day off work, presumably all those celebrating her death will go into work as a protest?

[jjsaint]

It's not eating at me. I'm just trying to improve the quality of debate on here by highlighting errors in reasoning, and challenging vague, "off the cuff" comments!

 

I find the extreme left extremely nasty and viscious, absolutely seething with hate. By extreme left I mean the Occupy hardcore, faux-miltant communists, IRA and Islamic terrorism sympathisers, and general scumbags like GG. By contrast they make someone like George W Bush seem like a really nice chap.

 

However this doesn't take away from the fact that Thatcher was a divisive figure and many people, rightly or wrongly, lay their hardships at her door.

 

Funny thing is she looks a lot like my Auntie who I lost a few years ago...

[trousers]

Michael Barrett ‏@mgbarrett 1h If state funeral = day off work, presumably all those celebrating her death will go into work as a protest?

 

The same people that went to work on the Jubilee holiday last year you mean....? (p.s. brace yourself for the "its not a state funeral you berk" ripostes...)

[KelvinsRightGlove]

The Irish would probably disagree with their wakes, n all.

 

Wakes are about celebrating the persons LIFE, not their DEATH.

 

Pretty big difference there papster.

[pap]

Wakes are about celebrating the persons LIFE, not their DEATH.

 

Pretty big difference there papster.

 

Depends on the person, I'm told

[Lord Duckhunter]

Her radical policies which were against the political wisdom at the time is now mainstream and endorsed by all except the Galloway's of the world.

 

Even her "milk snatching" from her Education days was never reversed by Labour. Non of the industries she privatised were ever renationalised by Labour. Never again would they squeeze the rich until the pips squeaked, they still sold council houses and they never reformed any of her major union legislation.

 

Surely the proof in whether your policies were any good is the fact that the opposition embraced most of your major convictions, despite 3 massive majorities and 13 years in which to do so.

[Saint George]

I think a large part of it is.

 

I'd like the opinions of some old timers on this one. Were the Conservatives ever called the Nasty Party before she took charge?

 

Back in the days when the Unions were f**king up, sorry trying to run the country and just about every business...anyone that wasn't a Socialist was called a lot worse than "nasty".....The class hate was there way before Thatcher...She just gave them somone to focus on

[pap]

Her radical policies which were against the political wisdom at the time is now mainstream and endorsed by all except the Galloway's of the world.

 

Even her "milk snatching" from her Education days was never reversed by Labour. Non of the industries she privatised were ever renationalised by Labour. Never again would they squeeze the rich until the pips squeaked, they still sold council houses and they never reformed any of her major union legislation.

 

Surely the proof in whether your policies were any good is the fact that the opposition embraced most of your major convictions, despite 3 massive majorities and 13 years in which to do so.

 

Nope.

 

It just means that the policies were fiscally handy, yet could be blamed on someone else.

[Whitey Grandad]

I was only 3 years old when she left Downing Street, but wasnt aware it was her that caused all the problems we have today.

That's because she didn't.

[Guan 2.0]

dont agree with celebrating her death, that is just wrong but a lot that is still wrong with the country was her and those that followed fault. I wonder if any of those that were so strongly protesting the poll tax are now jumping on the "she was a wonderful woman" bandwagon

 

 

[scotty]

Michael Barrett ‏@mgbarrett 1h If state funeral = day off work, presumably all those celebrating her death will go into work as a protest?

 

Its what she would have expected. Day off, and expect to get paid? Dont make me laugh.

[trousers]

Another one for the anti-Thatcher team....

 

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/82506-the-leader-of-one-of-the-most-paedophile-infested-governments-in-modern-times-so-much-competition-and-close-friend-of-jimmy-savile-has-died

 

David Icke: The leader of one of the most paedophile-infested governments in modern times (so much competition) and close friend of Jimmy Savile has died

[Shroppie]

Good post Pugwash.

 

Exactly where I stand too, and very well put.

[pap]

Another one for the anti-Thatcher team....

 

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/82506-the-leader-of-one-of-the-most-paedophile-infested-governments-in-modern-times-so-much-competition-and-close-friend-of-jimmy-savile-has-died

 

trousers to eat a baby by day's end and claim Labour made him do it.

[Gemmel]

manji what a ****

[Hamilton Saint]

I find the extreme left extremely nasty and viscious, absolutely seething with hate. By extreme left I mean the Occupy hardcore, faux-miltant communists, IRA and Islamic terrorism sympathisers, and general scumbags like GG. By contrast they make someone like George W Bush seem like a really nice chap.

 

However this doesn't take away from the fact that Thatcher was a divisive figure and many people, rightly or wrongly, lay their hardships at her door.

 

Funny thing is she looks a lot like my Auntie who I lost a few years ago...

 

As opposed to the "nasty and vicious" extreme right. They are just as bad. By the way, I don't think "Islamic terrorism sympathisers" are lefties. And, no, the groups you mentioned do not make George W. Bush seem like a really nice chap. Consider the tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of deaths he is responsible for in the Middle East. He is, by any reasonable definition, a war criminal.

 

And you might think about Thatcher's support for Pinochet in Chile (she considered him her friend), and the contras in Nicaragua - a bunch of "nasty vicious" terrorists, who killed tens of thousands of Nicaraguans. Thatcher approved.

[trousers]

Germany's ex-chancellor Helmut Kohl praised the former PM for her "love of freedom, her incomparable openness, honesty and straightforwardness".

 

Piers Morgan: Disagreed with Thatcher over many things (incl poll tax, miners, Hillsborough) but admired courage/leadership re Falklands, Cold War etc.

 

Simon Walker, director general of the Institute of Directors, says "Britain was privileged to have a prime minister who understood the importance of entrepreneurs, aspiration and business".

 

Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai pays tribute to "one of the greatest leaders the world knew." He says she will be remembered as a "strong leader who had truly served her country, particularly in strengthening the UK's economy".

 

Socialist Party general secretary Peter Taaffe says: "It is a human response to be sad when somebody dies, but many working-class people will be celebrating her death because of the absolutely destructive and long-lasting effect she had on the lives of millions of working class and poor people."

 

Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen has paid tribute to "an extraordinary politician who was a staunch defender of freedom, a powerful advocate of Nato and the transatlantic bond".

He says: "She strongly supported Nato values and principles, believed in a strong defence and played a leading role in ending the Cold War. Throughout her tenure as British Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher stood on principle and showed great courage, vision and leadership."

 

Conservative MP Alun Cairns: I asked my 9 year old son, Henri whether he knew who Margaret #Thatcher was and he said 'Yes - a strict Prime Minister'.

Irish President Michael D Higgins says the ex-PM's policies on Northern Ireland "gave rise to considerable debate at the time".

"However, her key role in signing the Anglo-Irish Agreement will be recalled as a valuable early contribution to the search for peace and political stability," he says.

The First Minister of Northern Ireland, Peter Robinson, pays tribute to her legacy and says "you're bound to create enemies and division along the way. She had more than her share in that regard. But, I think history will look kindly on the transformative changes in the UK that she has been responsible for".

Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy says Lady Thatcher was one of the leading figures in politics in Europe in the 20th Century.

"She governed in the UK during a key moment in our history. I think her commitment to democracy, to freedom and the rule of law together with her reformist vision, built up an extremely valuable legacy for current European leaders. Similar to the situation of the 1980s, the time during which Margaret Thatcher was prime minister, we are also facing huge challenges which require us to have political ambition and courage."

Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams has condemned the late Margaret Thatcher as ‘belligerent’ and ‘shameful’, accusing her of doing ‘great hurt’ to both Ireland and Britain. The ex-MP criticised her for backing Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet in the 1970s and 1980s and also opposing sanctions against apartheid-era South Africa. And he described her Irish policy as ‘a failure’, causing ‘great suffering’ by a hardline stance against the Irish republican cause.

Edited 8 April, 2013 by trousers

[pap]

That's because she was loved by the super rich and the media barons.she was a nasty women but I for one will not be buying newspapers in .the next few days.she was a hate figure for a lot of working class people at the time. R.I p. To her but she doesn't deserve a state funeral .

 

Agree about the state funeral, or even an official funeral.

 

I find it amazing that we're even considering spending a penny of our money on someone who essentially asset-stripped the national wealth.

 

I also find it amazing that her government basically admitted "nah, we can't make money out of providing utilities such as gas and electricity. We'll sell it off".

 

Highway robbery.

Edited 8 April, 2013 by pap

[TopGun]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/northern-britain-already-hammered-2013040865062

 

Northern Britain already hammered.

 

Lol.

[Hatch]

 

[Roman]

“Rejoice! Just rejoice at that news,” to quote a certain politician celebrating 907 deaths in the South Atlantic.

 

By the way, to all the simpering Tory boys: who exactly was it that toppled this supposedly “greatest leader of all time” from her perch and reduced her to a tearful, humiliated wreck?

 

Surely not anyone in the Maggie-is-our-hero, how-dare-anyone-say-a-cross-word, Tory Party…

[trousers]

Flags at half mast at City Hall... I'm sure Ken would have approve...

 

[John Boy Saint]

No doubt many on here are too young to remember what the country was like prior to Mrs Thatcher becoming PM. Anyone remember Jim Callaghan going off on vacation when there was a general strike? Do you remember the heaps of garbage that went uncollected for weeks? How about regular power cuts due to strikes by workers who were holding the country to ransom?

 

Like everyone, some things she did were great, others not so great and mistakes were made and her premiership probably went on 2 years too long.

 

Having said that she played a momentous role in the UKs modern history and for people to celebrate her passing is incomprehensible and says more about them personally than their politics.

 

She also made our Armed Forces feel respected again (and not just through the Falklands but through increasing pay beyond paupers salary) and was instrumental in bringing the Cold War to an end.

 

RIP

 

Have to agreed with that,

 

When she came to power I was at an age where I was just becoming politically aware, and like many have said this country was going down the drain. Not only was rubbish piling up in the streets but many were unable to bury their loved ones who had passed away. The Unions had the country by the short and curlys, I recall car park votes to strike on TV where the show of hands was the ballot and the show of hands NOT to strike was visibly greater than those who wanted to. In Southampton I had an uncle who worked down the docks, the amount of times he would be home early because of strike action, if the mob rule of the Unions had not been broken by her hard line stance, Southampton would not be the successful city it is now.

 

Whilst some of her policy's will never go down well, understandably, in some parts of the country. And some commentators above have posted that she is responsible for some of the woes today, if she hadn't been so bloody minded we would be in much more sorry state than we find ourselves today, just look at the grief in the Eurozone funny how we dodged that.

I wonder how many of the older posters who saw the sorry state we were in when she took up her tenure, had a feeling of deja vu when it's was revealed in a note in the treasury after the last election that read something like: Good Luck - there is nothing left.

 

The one thing that Mrs Thatchers policy's did do was to make us as politically aware as we are today, which is why some many of us have a cynical view of politics today.

She did a damn sight more good than bad.

 

RIP

[norwaysaint]

 

You look at the calibre of people who are finding joy in her dying, and there is an indisputable link, they're all evil, left wing *****.

 

This sort of comment will always detract from any sense in your argument. It's childish and silly and discounts you as a poster worth listening to on serious subjects.

 

Sorry for anyone's family when they die. Thatcher is a part of this country's history. I didn't like her or her politics when she was alive, but those who disliked her should be aware that she meant something to a lot of people and be sensitive to that. At the same time, those who were fond of her should be aware that she had a very negative effect on a lot of people's lives and they are going to express that at this time too. Just post how you feel about it and stop getting so hung up on everybody else's viewpoint, it will never be the same as yours.

[solentstars]

trousers to eat a baby by day's end and claim Labour made him do it.

ha ha i,m suprised he has not yet.

[ThreeSixty]

Shame it took this long.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Agree about the state funeral, or even an official funeral.

 

I find it amazing that we're even considering spending a penny of our money on someone who essentially asset-stripped the national wealth.

 

I also find it amazing that her government basically admitted "nah, we can't make money out of providing utilities such as gas and electricity. We'll sell it off".

 

Highway robbery.

 

It shouldn't be a subjective thing.

 

She should be treated the same as any other former PM.

 

Out of curiosity, what is the usual procedure? Not a huge amount of former PMs have died in my lifetime.

[trousers]

It shouldn't be a subjective thing.

 

She should be treated the same as any other former PM.

 

Out of curiosity, what is the usual procedure? Not a huge amount of former PMs have died in my lifetime.

 

The Wikipedia article I posted a page or two ago explains it quite well

[trousers]

ha ha i,m suprised he has not yet.

 

Anyone got a spare napkin?

[trousers]

“Rejoice! Just rejoice at that news,” to quote a certain politician celebrating 907 deaths in the South Atlantic.

 

By the way, to all the simpering Tory boys: who exactly was it that toppled this supposedly “greatest leader of all time” from her perch and reduced her to a tearful, humiliated wreck?

 

Surely not anyone in the Maggie-is-our-hero, how-dare-anyone-say-a-cross-word, Tory Party…

 

Possibly crap analogy alert...

 

As Adkins (the manager we all loved) was ousted by someone within Southampton Football Club are you suggesting we shouldn't continue to love Southampton Football Club?

 

(Haven't thought that through so probably full of more holes than a Labour Party manifesto...)

 

[KelvinsRightGlove]

The Wikipedia article I posted a page or two ago explains it quite well

 

kk, missed that one.

 

 

ta.

[Barry Sanchez]

To the people saying about rubbish piling up in the street, well that happened a few months ago, to the people saying she came to power when there was social unrest, well thats here now.

The people defending her made money on their houses in the main, a rosetinted look back , they forget the privatized silverware that was already ours in the first place.

[Barry Sanchez]

Can I add I dislike to on the bandwagon pleasure in ther death or praising/backing her to the hilt, people in south wales, merseyside, nottinghamshire, yorkshire and lancashire have directly paid the price of her decisions and will do so for generations.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

A divisive leader certainly, but easily the most significant British politician of her era and since Churchill in my opinion. I didn't happen to like the women all that much to be honest - I would have voted for Jim Challahan in 1979 were I not 16 at the time - but all those who are old enough to remember the appalling state this country had fallen into at that time - and who are honest enough to accept that obvious truth - really have to concede that she was the right Prime Minister at the right time.

 

Just like Churchill she got plenty wrong in her time, indeed by the end of her reign the power had driven her more than a little mad methinks, but the key truth is that she stood up to the enemies of this great nation - both foreign and domestic - and she almost single handedly transformed this nation for the better in many ways.

 

So the greatest peacetime British Prime Minister then? Our history is a long and remarkable one and there are many notable candidates for that accolade, but the greatest I've seen in my lifetime for sure.